Another Sony/ATV thread...

[mjlivesimmortal]

I was just doing some reading about the catalogue and wondered how much of this is true. Obviously most of us are speculating but someone might be able to help:

I read that although Michael has 50% of the catalogue, that the value of his share of the catalogue has decreased so that the total amount that he would actually possess would be more like 20%. This was because the decisions that have been made have been Sony's investments and so Michael can't profit from them. If Michael wasn't putting much in to the business then if he were to sell in the future, then wouldn't his share be not as valuable since he'd end up paying millions in investments made by Sony and tax and several other things.

And also, in 2013, are the rights of the Beatles songs going to revert to McCartney and Lennon? I'm sure they're going to be keen to get it back.

I don't have sources but just general reading through the net.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

all false TMK sony and mj are 50/50 partners. each side gets 50% of the profit that is made. so one side is not worth more than the other. also the 2013 date has nothing to do with publishing rights.its some other rights. you own the publishing rights forever unless you sell them. the performance rights run out approx 50 years after the songs were written. this is what u are probably thinking of. this will effect the beatles as they wont get money as the performers. but will as the songwriters etc

 

[Rasta Pasta]

all false TMK sony and mj are 50/50 partners. each side gets 50% of the profit that is made. so one side is not worth more than the other. also the 2013 date has nothing to do with publishing rights.its some other rights. you own the publishing rights forever unless you sell them. the performance rights run out approx 50 years after the songs were written. this is what u are probably thinking of. this will effect the beatles as they wont get money as the performers. but will as the songwriters etc

correct... yep.. Sony even prints the 50% ownership on its own website

Corporate Fact Sheet



Sony Corporation of America, based in New York City, is a U.S. subsidiary of Sony Corporation, headquartered in Tokyo. Sony is a leading manufacturer of audio, video, communications, and information technology products for the consumer and professional markets. Its motion picture, television, computer entertainment, music and online businesses make Sony one of the most comprehensive entertainment companies in the world. Sony's principal U.S. businesses include Sony Electronics Inc., Sony Pictures Entertainment Inc., Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc., and a 50% interest in Sony BMG Music Entertainment, one of the largest recorded music companies in the world. Sony recorded consolidated annual sales of approximately $70.3 billion for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2007, and it employs 163,000 people worldwide. Sony's consolidated sales in the U.S. for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2007 were $18.9 billion.

U.S. Businesses

• Sony Electronics Inc.
• Sony Entertainment Inc.Sony Pictures Entertainment Inc. Sony BMG Music Entertainment (50% ownership) Sony/ATV Music Publishing (50% ownership)
• Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc.
• Sony DADC Americas
• Sony Plaza Public Arcade and Sony Wonder Technology Lab (New York)
• Sony Card

http://www.sony.com/SCA/corporate.shtml

and Elusive, you are also correct about the publishing rights.. its forever... unless its sold..

remember.. Michael now owns the rights of Duke Ellington's music (through the purchase of Famous Music).. Duke's compositions are more than 50years old..
and Sony/ATV still gets money for its use..

and as my sig says:

Sony/ATV is a traditional music publisher which makes money every time a piece of music is used on a variety of outlets including radio, movies, live performances, advertising as well as a share from recorded music sales.

 

[144000]

sry...wrong post......

 

[tupacavelli4life]

So will someone please again explain to me why Jackson is in danger of losing his home if he has all this money? I don't get it. Obviously, he's cash poor.

 

[KOPV]

^ His house was tied up in loans..

Mike has a lot of money, but much of it is in what he OWNS.. investments.. He does not want to get rid of the investments to pay it off because those investments are worth a lot of money and could support him FOREVER, even if he does not do anything for the rest of his life..

SONY/ATV alone could provide him enough money.. but he's not willing to sell his share..

In the long run it would not be smart..

He could pay off the loans.. But then where would he be?? Ya he'll still have enough money to live off but his investments are TOO precious and continually grow in worth..

10 years from now his ATV portion could double..

I mean he bought the beatles catologue for 47 mill in the mid 80's.. 25 years later worth a half BILLION.. Just imagine if every decade in goes up 250 million..

why would he sell it NOW?? It will be worth more later..

I mean he could keep it, and his chidlren could live off of that too..

 

[tupacavelli4life]

Why would he sell it now? Why not??? That catalogue is not gonna grow at that rate anymore the same way records won't sell 20 million copies anymore. This is the "illegal downloading" era. Since the start of Napster, the record business and album sales have steadily decreased each year. I can go on any corner and buy three bootleg cds for 10 bucks or go to WalMart and spend 18 bucks for one cd. With this era of 4 dollar a gallon gas, no one is spending the way they used to.

I'd sell another 25% of the catalogue to pay off some loans and have some cash. That 25% remainding would take care of his future. If anything happens to Jackson, there will be one hell of a fight over his money with it all tied up in everything.

 

[hopespringseternal]

Why would he sell it now? Why not??? That catalogue is not gonna grow at that rate anymore the same way records won't sell 20 million copies anymore. This is the "illegal downloading" era. Since the start of Napster, the record business and album sales have steadily decreased each year. I can go on any corner and buy three bootleg cds for 10 bucks or go to WalMart and spend 18 bucks for one cd. With this era of 4 dollar a gallon gas, no one is spending the way they used to.

I'd sell another 25% of the catalogue to pay off some loans and have some cash. That 25% remainding would take care of his future. If anything happens to Jackson, there will be one hell of a fight over his money with it all tied up in everything.

Show us your financial records, oh know it all one.

 

[GenieBottle]

Why would he sell it now? Why not??? That catalogue is not gonna grow at that rate anymore the same way records won't sell 20 million copies anymore. This is the "illegal downloading" era. Since the start of Napster, the record business and album sales have steadily decreased each year. I can go on any corner and buy three bootleg cds for 10 bucks or go to WalMart and spend 18 bucks for one cd. With this era of 4 dollar a gallon gas, no one is spending the way they used to.

I'd sell another 25% of the catalogue to pay off some loans and have some cash. That 25% remainding would take care of his future. If anything happens to Jackson, there will be one hell of a fight over his money with it all tied up in everything.

He should NOT sell...it WILL go up in value, Sony/ATV is a TRADITIONAL music publisher. Mike will still get paid if its by CD sales or downloads...or performance of Beatles songs by various artists, played on the radio. No man he shouldn't sell...Mike can get cash in other ways...(cows at Neverland:yes

 

[tupacavelli4life]

If Jackson doesn't sell so be it. Now if he wants to make a quick couple hundred million bucks, simply do a "farewell tour"....and please make the USA one of the stops. Jackson has said he doesn't want to tour until he's old, then time is running out as he's nearly 50 now. Do it Jackson, we know you have one last run in those tired bones of yours.

 

[Datsymay]

So will someone please again explain to me why Jackson is in danger of losing his home if he has all this money? I don't get it. Obviously, he's cash poor.

Michael is working with some of the best financiers in the business. Have you ever thought that the MJ is broke could be a strategy to ward off unwarranted lawsuits. If you were targeted by everybody who sued you at the drop of a hat because they think you have money, wouldn't you cry broke as well.

 

[hopespringseternal]

Michael is working with some of the best financiers in the business. Have you ever thought that the MJ is broke could be a strategy to ward off unwarranted lawsuits. If you were targeted by everybody who sued you at the drop of a hat because they think you have money, wouldn't you cry broke as well.

Datsymay I decided that tupacavelli4life purposedly say stuff to get a reaction, as you would suggest we do I put that poster on ignore, saves you the time having to read through stupid postings.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

he's cash poor.

basically yes. mj is a billionaire but that money is not money he can just get from his pocket. its tied up in investments just like other business ppl.you dont do well as a business person by just leaving your money in accounts that you can get hold of easily its tied up in business/property etc. its like you owning a million $ house. you are a miillionaire but its not like you can get hold of a million $ in cash unless you sell up.its all about the assets. in the long run of course you want to keep your assets espcially the music cat because its doing great business and expanding year by year.but short terms its hard as we have seen. mj could very easily make 10-20 mill by doing a couple of interviews for eg.theres so many easy way for him to make cash but for some reason thats not happening (presumably)

 

[HemlockDevi]

Corporate Fact Sheet



Sony Corporation of America, based in New York City, is a U.S. subsidiary of Sony Corporation, headquartered in Tokyo. Sony is a leading manufacturer of audio, video, communications, and information technology products for the consumer and professional markets. Its motion picture, television, computer entertainment, music and online businesses make Sony one of the most comprehensive entertainment companies in the world. Sony's principal U.S. businesses include Sony Electronics Inc., Sony Pictures Entertainment Inc., Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc., and a 50% interest in Sony BMG Music Entertainment, one of the largest recorded music companies in the world. Sony recorded consolidated annual sales of approximately $70.3 billion for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2007, and it employs 163,000 people worldwide. Sony's consolidated sales in the U.S. for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2007 were $18.9 billion.

U.S. Businesses

• Sony Electronics Inc.
• Sony Entertainment Inc.Sony Pictures Entertainment Inc. Sony BMG Music Entertainment (50% ownership) Sony/ATV Music Publishing (50% ownership)
• Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc.
• Sony DADC Americas
• Sony Plaza Public Arcade and Sony Wonder Technology Lab (New York)
• Sony Card

http://www.sony.com/SCA/corporate.shtml

Now does anyone have the value of SONY/ATV (600,000 publishing copyrights) indivisual estimate? It must be billions$$$.

correct... yep.. Sony even prints the 50% ownership on its own website



and Elusive, you are also correct about the publishing rights.. its forever... unless its sold..

remember.. Michael now owns the rights of Duke Ellington's music (through the purchase of Famous Music).. Duke's compositions are more than 50years old..
and Sony/ATV still gets money for its use..

and as my sig says:

^ His house was tied up in loans..

Mike has a lot of money, but much of it is in what he OWNS.. investments.. He does not want to get rid of the investments to pay it off because those investments are worth a lot of money and could support him FOREVER, even if he does not do anything for the rest of his life..

SONY/ATV alone could provide him enough money.. but he's not willing to sell his share..

In the long run it would not be smart..

He could pay off the loans.. But then where would he be?? Ya he'll still have enough money to live off but his investments are TOO precious and continually grow in worth..

10 years from now his ATV portion could double..

I mean he bought the beatles catologue for 47 mill in the mid 80's.. 25 years later worth a half BILLION.. Just imagine if every decade in goes up 250 million..

why would he sell it NOW?? It will be worth more later..

I mean he could keep it, and his chidlren could live off of that too..

I agree with ownwership being greater than money;(since currencies will increase and decrease like the dollar in value) however the value of his 50% must be far more than $500 million? I have heard this figure for the last ten years and before all the acquisitions.

 

[Rasta Pasta]

So will someone please again explain to me why Jackson is in danger of losing his home if he has all this money? I don't get it. Obviously, he's cash poor.

sorry, tupacavelli4life.. personally.. i feel Michael don't have to explain any of this to any fan or media.. don't care if default notices become public information.

what I do Know is.. he STILL OWNS ALL HIS HOUSES....

and I bet anyone a lottery ticket.. that this same subject will be revisited again.. next year...

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Now does anyone have the value of SONY/ATV (600,000 publishing copyrights) indivisual estimate? It must be billions$$$.

there have been several estimates from 1-3 billion i guess you could get an idea by finding out (if possible) what the other big publishing companies are worth.

 

[Big Apple2]

Now does anyone have the value of SONY/ATV (600,000 publishing copyrights) indivisual estimate? It must be billions$$$.

I agree with ownwership being greater than money;(since currencies will increase and decrease like the dollar in value) however the value of his 50% must be far more than $500 million? I have heard this figure for the last ten years and before all the acquisitions.

I have to agree with you as far as the Sony/ATV catalog goes. I mean, they have been quoting that $500 million figure for the longest.

Which can't be true any longer, if you just look at the two purchases from last year alone, i.e. Stoller/Lieber and The Famous Music catalogs. Not even counting what went down BEFORE these two catalogs were purchased.

I too believe we are talking BILLIONS here, but it's all good. LOL! Folks are not as stupid as the media would like to believe.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

also sony had a option to buy 25% of the sonyatv off mj that would have cost them 1.125 billion $ now that figure is blown up in comparision to the real value but it gives u an idea of the sort of money we are talking about

 

[Rasta Pasta]

Now does anyone have the value of SONY/ATV (600,000 publishing copyrights) indivisual estimate? It must be billions$$$.







I agree with ownwership being greater than money;(since currencies will increase and decrease like the dollar in value) however the value of his 50% must be far more than $500 million? I have heard this figure for the last ten years and before all the acquisitions.

during the trial I think it was said that SonyATV was valued at $4 bil .. and 1/2 of $4 bil.. isn't $500mil...

 

[Rasta Pasta]

also sony had a option to buy 25% of the sonyatv off mj that would have cost them 1.125 billion $ now that figure is blown up in comparision to the real value but it gives u an idea of the sort of money we are talking about

true.. and the media is NEVER EVER going to "outright" tell you how much that catalog is worth..Never...

but as you mention..we can certainly piece together some things.. to see that is worth much more than they say...

Michael.. I am loving it!

 

[Big Apple2]

during the trial I think it was said that SonyATV was valued at $4 bil .. and 1/2 of $4 bil.. isn't $500mil...

Thanks Rasta, I remember that as well and those words came from T-Mez.

Also, keeping in mind that was way, WAY before Stoller/Lieber and Famous Music came along. LOL!

 

[GenieBottle]

^ A Black, self-made Billionaire in the entertainment industry...damn, and we wonder why "They" mock, critisize, humiliate, and throw MJ under the bus. And does that 4 billion not even take in MJs own Mijac catalogue? How much is MJs cat worth?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

i think someone said mijac is worth around 100 mill it includes many non mj songs aswell

 

[JudgingNoone]

^ A Black, self-made Billionaire in the entertainment industry...damn, and we wonder why "They" mock, critisize, humiliate, and throw MJ under the bus. And does that 4 billion not even take in MJs own Mijac catalogue? How much is MJs cat worth?

Ahem. I'd be the last person to deny the existance of racism, but if Michael's race was the only reason then, logically, wouldn't they be as hard on JayZ, P Diddy and Russel Simmons? They're all black and extremely successful businessmen.

 

[hopespringseternal]

Ahem. I'd be the last person to deny the existance of racism, but if Michael's race was the only reason then, logically, wouldn't they be as hard on JayZ, P Diddy and Russel Simmons? They're all black and extremely successful businessmen.

They don't own anything that white america worships more than Elvis Presley and the Beatles.

 

[GenieBottle]

Ahem. I'd be the last person to deny the existance of racism, but if Michael's race was the only reason then, logically, wouldn't they be as hard on JayZ, P Diddy and Russel Simmons? They're all black and extremely successful businessmen.

I never said race was the only reason. I just stated one of the reasons for MJs hardships and ridicule. and IMO JayZ, Diddy, Russel are not on Mikes level of success and POWER.

 

[Rasta Pasta]

Ahem. I'd be the last person to deny the existance of racism, but if Michael's race was the only reason then, logically, wouldn't they be as hard on JayZ, P Diddy and Russel Simmons? They're all black and extremely successful businessmen.

racism has alot to do with the attacks on Michael ..

and racism does not = logic...

the day JayZ, P Diddy or Russel Simmons.. decides to own something regarded as very valuable by the masses... please post that question again...

and remember JayZ and PDiddy came after .. Michael kicked down alot of doors.. so they can walk through it .. un-scaved...

if you are not part of a "minority'.. you might not ever agree with that point of view.. so lets.. leave that Pink Elephant right there ..and move on...

 

[hopespringseternal]

racism has alot to do with the attacks on Michael ..

and racism does not = logic...

the day JayZ, P Diddy or Russel Simmons.. decides to own something regarded as very valuable by the masses... please post that question again...

and remember JayZ and PDiddy came after .. Michael kicked down alot of doors.. so they can walk through it .. un-scaved...

if you are not part of a "minority'.. you might not ever agree with that point of view.. so lets.. leave that Pink Elephant right there ..and move on...

:clap: :clap: Thank you :flowers:

 

[Big Apple2]

Ahem. I'd be the last person to deny the existance of racism, but if Michael's race was the only reason then, logically, wouldn't they be as hard on JayZ, P Diddy and Russel Simmons? They're all black and extremely successful businessmen.

True dat, but NONE of them are on Mike's level. Aside from the fact that Mike's music career, smokes JayZ and Diddy put together. LOL! I love them both, but they haven't broken any records or opened any door's. Besides, Jay-Z, Diddy and Russell ain't WORLDWIDE like Mike, but it's still all good. I'm delighted for ALL of the brother's!

 

[mjlivesimmortal]

Thanks elusive and Rasta for clearing that up I'm happy that this thread wasn't just closed on contact. Clears some stuff up.