Asking ourselves tough questions.

1nn5

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

Stop derailing this thread please. This kind of discussion is specifically contained within this one area of the forum so that it's easy to avoid if you find the subject matter offensive.

We might not like or agree with the thoughts being expressed in here, but it's a reality that some fans have doubts. This thread exists so that their concerns can be discussed and the facts can be given to help educate them if they want more information. Some people will change their mind. Some won't.

If you think a post is offensive, please report it. If you want to discuss another member, you can do so through PM with a staff member.

Where's the other moderators ?
 

Anna

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

Now we are promoting here what Dan Reed promotes. Insane.

@Ann, beside defending the posts of every hater what do you contribute to this thread? How do you address their doubts?

I'm just doing my job, which is to try and remain impartial while keeping the thread free of clutter and abuse. I'm not trying to address anything. Others can do that if they want to.
 

Anna

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

Where's the other moderators ?

There are currently two active moderators on this forum, Mikky Dee and myself. And as founder and owner, Gaz has final say on what is permitted on MJJC.
 

1nn5

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

I'm just doing my job, which is to try and remain impartial while keeping the thread free of clutter and abuse. I'm not trying to address anything. Others can do that if they want to.

Do not take it as an insult.
But the moderator's name is bigger than you.
I hope other administrator will will give up the decision to appoint you as moderator.
MJJC doesn't deserve moderators like you.
It's not an insult, but it's my opinion about your role as a moderator.
 

Anna

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

Do not take it as an insult.
But the moderator's name is bigger than you.
I hope other administrator will will give up the decision to appoint you as moderator.
MJJC doesn't deserve moderators like you.
It's not an insult, but it's my opinion about your role as a moderator.

Well I'll pass this on to Gaz for you.
 

Annie Are You Ok

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Not fully yet. It's been a very long and complex process, both sociological and psychological. I think that loving someone you've never met is the first step of a potentially dangerous path. I'm still dealing with it.
So you're posting stuff and then not understanding why you posted it?
Apart from the "cheated and abused" part, which I don't understand in the slightest, I also don't understand why you said "we've all". We? All? Am I out of line in asking not to be grouped into this "process" of yours?
 

1nn5

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So you're posting stuff and then not understanding why you posted it?
Apart from the "cheated and abused" part, which I don't understand in the slightest, I also don't understand why you said "we've all". We? All? Am I out of line in asking not to be grouped into this "process" of yours?

He thought his conclusions will enlightens the opinion of the fans about MJ.
He's one of those who (as always) : "I have been a fan of MJ since 20 years, but now.."
I hope moderators will not delete his posts, until JC08 get exposed.
Moderators saved him by deleting his previous posts.
 

JCO8

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So you're posting stuff and then not understanding why you posted it?

I'm not sure you got my point and I understand it's easier to make a caricature out of it. No problem with that, but don't expect me to be more precise if your only goal is to simplify and discredit my answers.

Apart from the "cheated and abused" part, which I don't understand in the slightest, I also don't understand why you said "we've all". We? All? Am I out of line in asking not to be grouped into this "process" of yours?

You're not out of line in asking to be part of one process or another. It's up to you and your feelings.
But you didn't quote the beginning of my sentence, wich was "I feel that we've all [...]". Am I free to feel and express what I feel, just as you are ?
 
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Anna

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He thought his conclusions will enlightens the opinion of the fans about MJ.
He's one of those who (as always) : "I have been a fan of MJ since 20 years, but now.."
I hope moderators will not delete his posts, until JC08 get exposed.
Moderators saved him by deleting his previous posts.

No, that's not how it works. Deleted posts can still be seen by moderators and by Gaz.
 

Lightbringer

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

Stop derailing this thread please. This kind of discussion is specifically contained within this one area of the forum so that it's easy to avoid if you find the subject matter offensive.

We might not like or agree with the thoughts being expressed in here, but it's a reality that some fans have doubts. This thread exists so that their concerns can be discussed and the facts can be given to help educate them if they want more information. Some people will change their mind. Some won't.

If you think a post is offensive, please report it. If you want to discuss another member, you can do so through PM with a staff member.

This.

Please STOP disrespecting Anna who is dedicating here FREE time to clean up this place. She has done nothing wrong, just made sure the board members follow the rules of the forum, thats all. Its not up to the moderators to set the rules of the forum, they are just upholding the law set by the owner.

I am firmly in the camp of Michael being innocent and have devoted an insane amount of time to help spread that message. With that said I do not have a problem with this thread - when its being used the way it should be = DEBATING facts on the cases, not for personal attacks, hatred, and even moderator bashing.

The only problem I have is that I think the "doubters" are getting a bit too much free pass ob offensive posts. However, I do think this thread serves a purpose if used properly, since it can be a place for fans to vent doubts and discuss with people that actually are very well informed on the subject, which is hard to find outside the MJ community.

Especially for die hard fans it can feel absolutely horrible to have doubts, and to be able to express their feelings freely in this specific thread is fair as long as its done with respect.

As you all know we had ALOT of heartbroken fans coming on the forum in panic after watching LN without being up to date with all the details on Robson & Safechucks past etc. That alone proves, this thread should remain. If members disagree, then just ignore this thread, put users like JC08 on your ignore list and respect everyones right to voice their opinion. I even think it can benefit members of the board to form and sharpen their arguments in this thread, and arm up for debates with detractors/haters outside the MJ community.
---
Note, I do think people that pretty much have decided that Michael was guilty without proof should be refrained from "trolling" frustrated fans who are strongly upset by users such as JC08 being allowed on the forum.

Just an example below:

All my respect for You, AG5050. For your freedom of speech, for the way you articulate your thoughts and for your ability to stay clever and respectful in front of the sick and the hate.

To me, calling the members of this board who for so long has been probably the greatest assets in the MJJ community ever - as THE SICK "ones" is completely uncalled for. And I can see why people would be angry by it.

At last, I come in TOTAL PEACE, I think we all should try to get along and be respectful, to be honest it saddens me deeply to see this kind of nasty debate/war raging in this place which meant and means the world to me.

Cheers
L
 
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AG5050

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

This.

Please STOP disrespecting Anna who is dedicating here FREE time to clean up this place. She has done nothing wrong, just made sure the board members follow the rules of the forum, thats all. Its not up to the moderators to set the rules of the forum, they are just upholding the law set by the owner.

I am firmly in the camp of Michael being innocent and have devoted an insane amount of time to help spread that message. With that said I do not have a problem with this thread - when its being used the way it should be = DEBATING facts on the cases, not for personal attacks, hatred, and even moderator bashing.

The only problem I have is that I think the "doubters" are getting a bit too much free pass ob offensive posts. However, I do think this thread serves a purpose if used properly, since it can be a place for fans to vent doubts and discuss with people that actually are very well informed on the subject, which is hard to find outside the MJ community.

Especially for die hard fans it can feel absolutely horrible to have doubts, and to be able to express their feelings freely in this specific thread is fair as long as its done with respect.

As you all know we had ALOT of heartbroken fans coming on the forum in panic after watching LN without being up to date with all the details on Robson & Safechucks past etc. That alone proves, this thread should remain. If members disagree, then just ignore this thread, put users like JC08 on your ignore list and respect everyones right to voice their opinion. I even think it can benefit members of the board to form and sharpen their arguments in this thread, and arm up for debates with detractors/haters outside the MJ community.
---
Note, I do think people that pretty much have decided that Michael was guilty without proof should be refrained from "trolling" frustrated fans who are strongly upset by users such as JC08 being allowed on the forum.

Just an example below:



To me, calling the members of this board who for so long has been probably the greatest assets in the MJJ community ever - as THE SICK "ones" is completely uncalled for. And I can see why people would be angry by it.

At last, I come in TOTAL PEACE, I think we all should try to get along and be respectful, to be honest it saddens me deeply to see this kind of nasty debate/war raging in this place which meant and means the world to me.

Cheers
L

He used the term sick because of a post that the mods have since deleted where a user said some very sick things to me accusing me of being a paedophile among other things.
 

Lightbringer

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

He used the term sick because of a post that the mods have since deleted where a user said some very sick things to me accusing me of being a paedophile among other things.

I did see that particular post before it was deleted, and it was clearly disturbing and I am sorry anyone here said such a thing and sorry you got it thrown in your face like that, it was disgusting.

However JC08 shall not call this boards members as "sick ones" - just because ONEindividual obviously lost it and said crazy stuff - that person alone should be held accountable - not the ENTIRE fanbase on this forum. By going after the forum as a whole JC08 is creating more controversy and divide between the sides in this thread.
 

JCO8

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

I did see that particular post before it was deleted, and it was clearly disturbing and I am sorry anyone here said such a thing and sorry you got it thrown in your face like that, it was disgusting.

However JC08 shall not call this boards members as "sick ones" - just because ONEindividual obviously lost it and said crazy stuff - that person alone should be held accountable - not the ENTIRE fanbase on this forum. By going after the forum as a whole JC08 is creating more controversy and divide between the sides in this thread.

Wow. Is this how you "bring light" on people ? You're being so dishonest here. Where did you see I included the entire fanbase being sick ? I don't know if you read what you want to read or if you're being manipulative on purpose but that's insane (can I use that word without creating an earthquake) ?

Thanks AG5050 for clearing things up.
 
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StageGlitter

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And I agree we should ask ourselves these questions. It wasn't normal. All I will say is I don't know, but he did not commit crimes against those few who challenged him in court. Or made allegations. As for women, who knows.
 

1nn5

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

Why cant we talk about it here?

You have Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and Reddit where you can discuss your doubts.
 

AG5050

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1nn5;4258088 said:
You have Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and Reddit where you can discuss your doubts.

The problem with social media is anything you post is public and you get bombarded with messages from people who you don’t wish to engage with.
Some of us wish to limit our conversations to fans only so this is a good and safe place to do this.

As you’ve been told many times if you dont want to see conversations of this nature on MJJC then you simply need to stop visiting this thread, rather than trying to stop others from having a rational discussion in the appropriate area of the board and abiding by the forum rules. It’s not difficult.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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AG5050;4258090 said:
The problem with social media is anything you post is public and you get bombarded with messages from people who you don’t wish to engage with.
Some of us wish to limit our conversations to fans only so this is a good and safe place to do this.

I agree. cause you got MJ haters out there. it's nice to have forum like theses to share your thoughts and discussion without any haters or trolls. though, you really can't run from them because sometimes they can make a account just to troll and hate on people. social media is a crazy place. got to be careful who or what you interact with.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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He thought his conclusions will enlightens the opinion of the fans about MJ.
He's one of those who (as always) : "I have been a fan of MJ since 20 years, but now.."
I hope moderators will not delete his posts, until JC08 get exposed.
Moderators saved him by deleting his previous posts.

I feel it doesn't matter how long you been a fan. MJ had and still and still getting fans young and old. but i do understand that fans who was around the 80's or even the mid 60's knows Michael probably more because they was around during his lifetime.
 

Mikky Dee

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He thought his conclusions will enlightens the opinion of the fans about MJ.
He's one of those who (as always) : "I have been a fan of MJ since 20 years, but now.."
I hope moderators will not delete his posts, until JC08 get exposed.
Moderators saved him by deleting his previous posts.

Please refrain from second-guessing what moderators will or will not do and what they should or should not do. Moderators on this site operate under the guidance and specific direction of the OWNER. If posts are deleted, it is not to SAVE anyone, but to keep members' posts within the RULES of MJJC and to help threads run as smoothly as possible, without people becoming overly upset and/or offended. Please also refrain from making assumptions and judgments about what kind of fan other members are - that is not helpful or useful to any discussion at all and is completely irrelevant. You do not KNOW anything about anyone else to whom you are speaking, on this site.
 

1nn5

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Please refrain from second-guessing what moderators will or will not do and what they should or should not do. Moderators on this site operate under the guidance and specific direction of the OWNER. If posts are deleted, it is not to SAVE anyone, but to keep members' posts within the RULES of MJJC and to help threads run as smoothly as possible, without people becoming overly upset and/or offended. Please also refrain from making assumptions and judgments about what kind of fan other members are - that is not helpful or useful to any discussion at all and is completely irrelevant. You do not KNOW anything about anyone else to whom you are speaking, on this site.

Why you don't ask JC08 if he believe MJ is a pedophile ?
Why you don't ask JC08 if he believe MJ is a child molester ?
Why you don't ask JC08 if he believe MJ is weird and a monster ?
What's the difference between Twitter/ Facebook and MJJC, if I find JC08 (as an example) in MJJC ?
 

Laurendaccio

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

If you see a post that you think crosses the line, please report it and it will be checked by staff.

So believing and expressing that MJ raped kids in a place dedicated to love and praise MJ as an artist and as a man is not crossing a line ?
 

Laurendaccio

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Please refrain from second-guessing what moderators will or will not do and what they should or should not do. Moderators on this site operate under the guidance and specific direction of the OWNER. If posts are deleted, it is not to SAVE anyone, but to keep members' posts within the RULES of MJJC and to help threads run as smoothly as possible, without people becoming overly upset and/or offended. Please also refrain from making assumptions and judgments about what kind of fan other members are - that is not helpful or useful to any discussion at all and is completely irrelevant. You do not KNOW anything about anyone else to whom you are speaking, on this site.

Is the rule for this thread expressing DOUBTS or CONVICTION ? Because that's clearly what JC08 is doing , expressing CONVICTION that MJ raped kids ??.How is promoting Dan Reed articles and thoughts within this frame of DOUBTS and not CONVICTION ?
 
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Laurendaccio

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AG5050;4258090 said:
The problem with social media is anything you post is public and you get bombarded with messages from people who you don’t wish to engage with.
Some of us wish to limit our conversations to fans only so this is a good and safe place to do this.

As you’ve been told many times if you dont want to see conversations of this nature on MJJC then you simply need to stop visiting this thread, rather than trying to stop others from having a rational discussion in the appropriate area of the board and abiding by the forum rules. It’s not difficult.

I am not against the notion that you can be a fan and still believe he was a pedophile but do not want to engage with real haters , but at the same time the same logic can apply with real fans ( as opposed to real haters ) who believe in MJ complete innocence .How can you say to yourself that this forum is a safe place where you can get in connection with people who think like you when actually the vast majority dosnt feel like you and worst are violently hostile to your position ? What connection are you finding ?What sense of community ? There is no connection nor sense of community when in a place of 10 000 members only 20 share the same feelings.
The subject of pedophilia in the MJfandom is too serious , too sensitive , too heartbreaking , too polarising for you to just relegate it to the "it is just a differing opinion " no it's a MAJOR difference of opinion that prevent any type of real connection not just some random "i prefer this album and you prefer this one " , but they are still MJ albums so you can still connect with the MJ fandom as a authentic fan.

My conclusion is , since you can't go to places like MJFacts because of all the hatred , social media because you dont want to be public, and - for the same reasons as MJFacts , on places like MJJCommunity because of the worshipping and total belief that he is a 100% innocent , then you guys should create a whole place ( brand new forum or blog ) specifically for people like you who love the artist but not the man . There at least you will be sure to not encounter hostiliy and violence both from MJ haters and MJ worshippers ,that way you can completly connect with each other .

It's delusional to think that a place dedicated to praise , love and give all due respect to the artist AND the man is fit for people like you .It's deluional to think there will be no hostility and violent comments towards you . I think in a short term period you will naturally feel misfit for this place and rightfully so , because hostility will continue and most likely intensify towards you no matter the moderators efforts to make you feel at ease to express your pedophile feelings for the man we worship over here .
 
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NatureCriminal7896

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

Everyone has their own opinion but me and my opinion is that Michael didn't touch no kids. i already gave my comment on this. people really need look at disorders like autism and/or PTSD. because i think that will we make people look at the facts of MJ and his life as a child. i'm not saying Michael had any of these disorders because i'm not a doctor but very possible Michael had something going on with mentally and it's not a bad thing either. but he didn't touch those kids. i feel this thread is kind of trying make people think he did it. i mean, if we will love MJ we should support him and believe him. i mean he was crying and stuff. i don't think he did it. Michael is innocent and always is and was. i really do feel this thread is trying to make people think it he did this.

true everyone has their own opinions but come on Michael didn't hurt those kids.
 
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NatureCriminal7896

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

And true that you can be a fan of the artist and not the man or you can be a fan of the man and not as artist or you can see him as both and be a fan of both. but honestly Michael didn't want people see him as an artist from what i saw. he wanted his fans treat him as normal regular human being. which is why he always wore disguises and kept his self from everyone. don't get me wrong Michael loved his fans but sometimes you just need some space to yourself. then another problem was when people was posting fake news about him and fake news him hurting kids.
 
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Laurendaccio

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

Ho boy. I'm off back to the LN thread. This was NOT what I was expecting when I signed up to a MJ forum. Maybe Gaz has had a change of heart himself. Would explain it.



That's what i am starting to believe , because there is no way an authentic fan with a forum dedicated to praise , love and respect could allow that shit . In this case GAZ should tell us his true feelings so that we fans can take our reponsibility if we still consider this place as a MJforum or not and decide to leave or not for another forum ruled by someone who still completly believe in his innocence . The administrator opinion is what set the general tone and primordial for our choice .
 
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NatureCriminal7896

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

Michael Is Innocent And Always Was And Is.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

People have lives. they just can't sit at a computer all day making sure trolls and haters don't bother at anyone. they lucky enough to come here and check and make sure this place is running smoothly and keep this place going for MJ fans new,young,and old.
 
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