Asking ourselves tough questions.

NatureCriminal7896

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

Nobody is praising Michael in anyway. if Michael did do crime he should get trouble for it but the thing is, HE DIDN"T DO ANYTHING AND HE"S IS INNOCENT.
 

Laurendaccio

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

Nobody is praising Michael in anyway. if Michael did do crime he should get trouble for it but the thing is, HE DIDN"T DO ANYTHING AND HE"S IS INNOCENT.

I do , why not ? He was an incredible artist AND a wonderful human being .He definitly deserves my praise .
 

NatureCriminal7896

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

I do , why not ? He was an incredible artist AND a wonderful human being .He definitly deserves my praise .

That's very true but Michael is and was a human being and if he did do crime he should get trouble for it. which he didn't do a crime. just because Michael is biggest superstar in the world doesn't mean he should get special treatment if he did a crime he even said it himself. but he didn't do anything.

even though i'm am fan i'm not gonna give him special treatment if he did do anything because he would have get trouble just like anyone else. but he's innocent so this don't really need to be a topic.
 

Laurendaccio

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

That's very true but Michael is and was a human being and if he did do crime he should get trouble for it. which he didn't do a crime. just because Michael is biggest superstar in the world doesn't mean he should get special treatment if he did a crime he even said it himself. but he didn't do anything.

even though i'm am fan i'm not gonna give him special treatment if he did do anything because he would have get trouble just like anyone else. but he's innocent so this don't really need to be a topic.


And who said he should have a special treatment if he commited a crime ? If i praise him as a human being it means first that i necessarily believe he commited no crime and second that he was truly special among other humans .
 

NatureCriminal7896

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

And who said he should have a special treatment if he commited a crime ? If i praise him as a human being it means first that i necessarily believe he commited no crime and second that he was truly special among other humans .

You know some people are. they think someone who has special talent they can't get in trouble. you see it everyday. but like i said Michael is and was innocent. yes he was very special but each one of us is special our own way. right now i'm seeing MJ as person not a superstar. do i think he's innocent as a person? most definitely yes.

everyone has own opinions though. like someone said you can still be a fan and have doubts. but i totally believe Michael was and is innocent. as human being and a great superstar legend and icon.
 

Laurendaccio

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

You know some people are. they think someone who has special talent they can't get in trouble. you see it everyday. but like i said Michael is and was innocent. yes he was very special but each one of us is special our own way. right now i'm seeing MJ as person not a superstar. do i think he's innocent as a person? most definitely yes.

everyone has own opinions though. like someone said you can still be a fan and have doubts. but i totally believe Michael was and is innocent. as human being and a great superstar legend and icon.


I dont praise him as a peron just because he is innocent and because of his talent but also because he is really special as a person .
Yes everyone is unique in a way or another , but not all uniqueness is impresive .I am impressed by his uniqueness .That's why i put him on a piedetale compare to other humans .
 

1nn5

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Thanks God, some members starts to follow this thread and the "Trials And Tribulations" section in general.
I repeat, moderators have deleted a lot of posts in this thread.. but if moderators kept them members will be shocked.
 

1nn5

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

everyone has own opinions though. like someone said you can still be a fan and have doubts. but i totally believe Michael was and is innocent. as human being and a great superstar legend and icon.

For me, this is HYPOCRISY.
If you have doubt, why you will still a fan of a pedophile !!
MJ music will have no sense, then you will contradict your self by Listening to "Heal The World" or "Little Susie" , songs made by a pedophile.
It doesn't make sense.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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Thanks God, some members starts to follow this thread and the "Trials And Tribulations" section in general.
I repeat, moderators have deleted a lot of posts in this thread.. but if moderators kept them members will be shocked.

What is your problem with this site and some members? you been a member since 2014 what's your problem?
 

NatureCriminal7896

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Re: Asking ourselves tough questions. [Staff Reminder: Be Respectful!]

For me, this is HYPOCRISY.
If you have doubt, why you will still a fan of a pedophile !!
MJ music will have no sense, then you will contradict your self by Listening to "Heal The World" or "Little Susie" , songs made by a pedophile.
It doesn't make sense.

You do got a point....
 

1nn5

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What is your problem with this site and some members? you been a member since 2014 what's your problem?

1/ I don't have any problem with this website.
2/ Yes I have a problem with some members. I'm a fan. I think I have the right to see this community different than Twitter, FB or Reddit.
3/ Member since 2014, where's the problem ?
 

JCO8

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For me, this is HYPOCRISY.
If you have doubt, why you will still a fan of a pedophile !!
MJ music will have no sense, then you will contradict your self by Listening to "Heal The World" or "Little Susie" , songs made by a pedophile.
It doesn't make sense.

You see things in black and white. Life is a little more complex than that.
You don't know what these people feel when they listen to these kind of songs.
You don't know if they still can listen to these kind of songs.
You don't even know if they still listen to Michael Jackson at all and what they do have to struggle.
You don't know and you don't wanna know why they might need to come to this place, despite all of this.
You don't know their definition of what it is or what it was to be a "fan".
You don't even know if they ever considered themselves as "fans", despite their fascination for this man.

The only thing you know is what YOU feel for Michael Jackson. And you would like everyone else to feel the exact same way. That's not how life works.

Yes I have a problem with some members. I'm a fan. I think I have the right to see this community different than Twitter, FB or Reddit.

I think everyone understood that you are a "fan".

If you don't see that this community has nothing in common with Twitter, Facebook and Reddit, then I think you should go check your eyes because you might need to wear a pair of glasses. There is only one single thread about this subject. Only one. Wich means there are 99,99% of this website where you can go and feel perfectly at home, far away from the storm. Why don't you just do it ? Why do you want to pretend that there are no questions amongst the community ? Why do you want to avoid the fact that there are some people who were fans and who have to struggle today because they believe they were wrong about their idol ? These people exist and I'm sorry you have to accept it. You are wasting your time and energy.
 

JCO8

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Because it's not a personnal thing , it's about the community .

The "community" is admiring a man who has had troubles with justice for the last 16 years of his life, and who still has, even after his death. Despite all the efforts that have been made to try to prove that he was manipulated, you can't pretend that everyone in the community believes he was 100% innocent. This would be hightly hypocritical. If you don't accept that the community might now be made of people with very different opinions on the man's life, then I think you can't call it a community anymore.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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The "community" is admiring a man who has had troubles with justice for the last 16 years of his life, and who still has, even after his death. Despite all the efforts that have been made to try to prove that he was manipulated, you can't pretend that everyone in the community believes he was 100% innocent. This would be hightly hypocritical. If you don't accept that the community might now be made of people with very different opinions on the man's life, then I think you can't call it a community anymore.

I agree with your statement. you can be a fan and have different opinions from others. but Michael is innocent that's doesn't really need to be an opinion unless some fans thinks he's not. i'm not one of those fans. i believe he's 100% innocent. i just can't see Michael harming children when he was once him self was abuse. it doesn't make any sense.

Michael is 100% innocent.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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Why don't you just do it ? Why do you want to pretend that there are no questions amongst the community ? Why do you want to avoid the fact that there are some people who were fans and who have to struggle today because they believe they were wrong about their idol ? These people exist and I'm sorry you have to accept it. You are wasting your time and energy.

There some fans that has left the MJfam. but i find that silly. i'm sure half of them will be back when they realize Michael didn't do anything.
 

JCO8

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There some fans that has left the MJfam. but i find that silly. i'm sure half of them will be back when they realize Michael didn't do anything.

Nothing is silly. Some people have their reasons to leave, some have their reasons to stay. Some stay today and will leave tomorrow. Some leave today and will come back. And some will never change, whatever their opinion might be. Everyone does what they feel and it's perfectly fine, as long as they are being honest with themselves and don't judge the opinions of others and their decisions.

Don't forget that you can also feel a strong link with Michael Jackson and not belong to any community. And I believe this is the vast majority of people. At first, all of this is very personal, and nobody has he right to judge the relation you have to an artist.
 
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Mikky Dee

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The rest of your intervention is insulting and doesn't bring anything, but I'm going to answer this one because it's a fair question.

Personally (speaking now without my moderator hat on) I find your sanctimonious ways to be insulting to other members. Your rationalisations and cerebral gymnastics don't really bring anything, yet they are tolerated by others. Maybe you could learn something from that.

I do not understand how someone with your current views regarding MJ can actually still call yourself a fan. In fact, I don't really believe it......I think that is a lie, or some kind of smoke screen, to ensure that you can continue to post your musings here. If I believed him to be guilty, I would no longer be a fan, nor would I be camped on a forum dedicated to the man......I would find other more productive ways to spend my time. You clearly get off on arguing with people, or being contrary.
 

JCO8

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Personally (speaking now without my moderator hat on) I find your sanctimonious ways to be insulting to other members. Your rationalisations and cerebral gymnastics don't really bring anything, yet they are tolerated by others. Maybe you could learn something from that.

I do not understand how someone with your current views regarding MJ can actually still call yourself a fan. In fact, I don't really believe it......I think that is a lie, or some kind of smoke screen, to ensure that you can continue to post your musings here. If I believed him to be guilty, I would no longer be a fan, nor would I be camped on a forum dedicated to the man......I would find other more productive ways to spend my time. You clearly get off on arguing with people, or being contrary.

You already told me this kind of things in private, Mikky. I'm sorry you don't believe me, I can't do anything to convince you, and I don't want to. I thought you would have noticed in my interventions that I've always had a problem with the word "fan", even when I considered myself to be one. And yes, of course I'm not a fan anymore (whatever this word means), in the sense that I can't relate to this artist the way I used to. That's why I said we all have a different history, a different relationship, a different link to this artist. And I still have a link to him, and I know I always will. It's not something you erase like that, even after this documentary that I believe to be telling the truth.

Now I understand you don't get why I'm still here, even if I tried to explain it in several ways. But I know why I'm here. Now if you don't want me here anymore, just tell me clearly and I will go.

Concerning my "sanctimonious ways to be insulting to other members", I understand how you can feel that if you think that I'm faking. Just imagine if I'm sincere, how insulting these few members are to me.
 
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Laurendaccio

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The "community" is admiring a man who has had troubles with justice for the last 16 years of his life, and who still has, even after his death. Despite all the efforts that have been made to try to prove that he was manipulated, you can't pretend that everyone in the community believes he was 100% innocent. This would be hightly hypocritical. If you don't accept that the community might now be made of people with very different opinions on the man's life, then I think you can't call it a community anymore.

There is defintly a community since the vast majority of MJ fans believe a 100% in his innocence , but you are right , it cannot be a community for YOU since you dont share this belief which is a MAJOR difference that prevent you from connecting with our community .That why i said you are not part of our community anymore and that you need to find or create your own community with people who felt betrayed by MJ but still love him as an artist .This place is clearly not for you since the vast majority is hostile to your position so you must go . The only highly hypocrite here is you .
 

Soundmind

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Personally (speaking now without my moderator hat on) I find your sanctimonious ways to be insulting to other members. Your rationalisations and cerebral gymnastics don't really bring anything, yet they are tolerated by others. Maybe you could learn something from that.

I do not understand how someone with your current views regarding MJ can actually still call yourself a fan. In fact, I don't really believe it......I think that is a lie, or some kind of smoke screen, to ensure that you can continue to post your musings here. If I believed him to be guilty, I would no longer be a fan, nor would I be camped on a forum dedicated to the man......I would find other more productive ways to spend my time. You clearly get off on arguing with people, or being contrary.

This attention seeker is here to try and sway other fans into believing he was a monster and that they could still like his music but should believe he was a paedophile. Whenever there is a poster with doubt this poster hurries to lend support and take the opportunity to express its convictions about MJ's guilt. This is not a fan with doubt. This is someone who believes he was guilty and wants others to believe so. Don't buy for a minute this member is not fully active on twitter and other platforms calling MJ and his fans every name under the sun. This claim about not being able to talk outside the community about their doubts is simply a LIE. They are talking and talking very loud but they want other fans to flip also. hardly 100 posts in more than 8 years most of them in this thread. That's not a fan.
 

Laurendaccio

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You already told me this kind of things in private, Mikky. I'm sorry you don't believe me, I can't do anything to convince you, and I don't want to. I thought you would have noticed in my interventions that I've always had a problem with the word "fan", even when I considered myself to be one. And yes, of course I'm not a fan anymore (whatever this word means), in the sense that I can't relate to this artist the way I used to. That's why I said we all have a different history, a different relationship, a different link to this artist. And I still have a link to him, and I know I always will. It's not something you erase like that, even after this documentary that I believe to be telling the truth.

Now I understand you don't get why I'm still here, even if I tried to explain it in several ways. But I know why I'm here. Now if you don't want me here anymore, just tell me clearly and I will go.

Concerning my "sanctimonious ways to be insulting to other members", I understand how you can feel that if you think that I'm faking. Just imagine if I'm sincere, how insulting these few members are to me.


What else can you be here for if not to try anything to convince fans that MJ is a pedophile and that we must let go of him ? You keep saying that everyone has the right of his opinion but the only thing you want is to convince MJJC that MJ si a pedophile for what reason ? Why is it important for you that we share that opinion ? Why dont you let us in our "delusions" and keep going on with your own life letting go of MJ ? Can't you see how utterly hypocritical and delusional you come accross ? .

I am asking you to go you clearly is not welcomed here anymore . This thread needs to be showed openly so that the whole forum see what is going on over here and demand GAZ to intervene and tell his true feelings so that authentic fans can take their responsibility as to whether they still want to stay here or not .
 
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Laurendaccio

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Nothing is silly. Some people have their reasons to leave, some have their reasons to stay. Some stay today and will leave tomorrow. Some leave today and will come back. And some will never change, whatever their opinion might be. Everyone does what they feel and it's perfectly fine, as long as they are being honest with themselves and don't judge the opinions of others and their decisions.

Don't forget that you can also feel a strong link with Michael Jackson and not belong to any community. And I believe this is the vast majority of people. At first, all of this is very personal, and nobody has he right to judge the relation you have to an artist.

Nobody here is judging the relations you have with MJ .But you joined a community and in a community there are tacit rules . You cannot go to a tennis club full of passionate tennis fans and keep bitching about how bad tennis is , how you hate this sport;All you doing is preventing passionate fans to ENJOY their sport freely by spewing negative things on it .How are they going to enjoy it when you try to make them feel guilty of doing this ? . Nobody is trying to prevent you from not liking MJ , or believing that he is a pedophile , you have THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE HE IS A PEDOPHILE nobody can take that away from you , but you can NOT do it in a community dedicated to love , praise and RESPECT the man . Respect here means BELIEVE IN HIS INNOCENCE A 100% .You just CANNOT , this is bulshit !!

Do it in your OWN community , not here
 
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1nn5

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Nobody here is judging the relations you have with MJ .But you joined a community and in a community there are tacit rules . You cannot go to a tennis club full of passionate tennis fans and keep bitching about how bad tennis is , how you hate this sport;All you doing is preventing passionate fans to ENJOY their sport freely by spewing negative things on it .How are they going to enjoy it when you try to make them feel guilty of doing this ? . Nobody is trying to prevent you from not liking MJ , or believing that he is a pedophile , you have THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE HE IS A PEDOPHILE nobody can take that away from you , but you can NOT do it in a community dedicated to love , praise and RESPECT the man . Respect here means BELIEVE IN HIS INNOCENCE A 100% .You just CANNOT , this is bulshit !!

Do it in your OWN community , not here

Don't waste your time trying to explain him.
He knows what's the goal of this community.
I wish Gaz show us his deleted posts, then you will see what the REAL opinion of JC08 about MJ.
 

Laurendaccio

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Don't waste your time trying to explain him.
He knows what's the goal of this community.
I wish Gaz show us his deleted posts, then you will see what the REAL opinion of JC08 about MJ.

Well i know exactly what he thinks , dont worry . I just want moderators and the @Admin to read the posts so that they can understand our position to NOT include people who believe he is a pedophile in a community dedicated to love, praise and respect . Hopefully more fans join this thread to expose this poster and make it clear what it means to be part of a FAN community .
 
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