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Atheist thread

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Good video! Have you seen Tim Minchin? I quite like him.

 
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Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Post fixed, I was putting the links in the wrong thing, no wonder they didn't work last night. Oops! All better now :)
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

I am neither an atheist, nor a religious fanatic. I haven't come to debate. I just wondered. Set aside all the religions, what about your personal quest on the meaning of life? Of consciousness? Of existence? Of the purpose all that we live and experience? Denying the existence of God is one thing, but searching answers without excluding any possibility is another. And trust me, all my life I have been asking all sorts of questions. Every philosophy, mythology, science, teachings, religion, has something to say which is helping understanding the meaning of life. Although I understand that to some a set of religious belif systems is unacceptable, I also have hard time believing that all what we see, live and what exists is fruit coming out of nowhere by pure coincidence.

If someobody told me that the Statue of Liberty is a fruit of coincidence that it is shaped the way it is shaped and that it stands there by pure coincidence thanks to the winds, erosion and years of shaping naturally, I would have hard time believing that person. Yet, a human body which is more complex is easier to believe to be a fruit of coincidence, not to mention the whole universe. Those two things sound contradictory to my mind. .
 
I personally think you can create your own purpose for life, why should anyone or anything else be needed to accomplish this? How exactly human life got started in the universe I don’t know, but people are here now because their parents bred. We’re more intelligent than other living things (well some of us anyway lol) which is why we ask these questions but does there have to be a reason other than breeding as to why we’re here?
I wouldn’t necessarily say that atheists “deny” the existence of a god, the way I see it is that I reject the claim that there’s one based on the lack of evidence. Yes the human body and the universe is complex but this doesn’t automatically mean a creator. At least in the case where a person has made something, say for example a computer, you can prove that the person who created it existed and you can be shown how it’s done and what to use. People often give supernatural explanations for things they don’t know the answer to to fill the gap in knowledge.
Someone in a tribe away from the western world could conclude that lightening occurs because some supernatural being is angry but that would just come from ignorance.
 
MJresearcher;4009994 said:
I personally think you can create your own purpose for life, why should anyone or anything else be needed to accomplish this? How exactly human life got started in the universe I don’t know, but people are here now because their parents bred. We’re more intelligent than other living things (well some of us anyway lol) which is why we ask these questions but does there have to be a reason other than breeding as to why we’re here?
I wouldn’t necessarily say that atheists “deny” the existence of a god, the way I see it is that I reject the claim that there’s one based on the lack of evidence. Yes the human body and the universe is complex but this doesn’t automatically mean a creator. At least in the case where a person has made something, say for example a computer, you can prove that the person who created it existed and you can be shown how it’s done and what to use. People often give supernatural explanations for things they don’t know the answer to to fill the gap in knowledge.
Someone in a tribe away from the western world could conclude that lightening occurs because some supernatural being is angry but that would just come from ignorance.
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I understand what you are saying, but if one seeks proofs then we get in trouble for many things, not only probving the existence of God, but proving everything else, since all the reality we observe depends on nothing else but some electro-chemical exchanges in our brains. In other words, we tend to be too pride when trying to explain things "naturally". As a matter of fact what seems natural to us is only because the electro-chemical reactions in our brain dictate what the reality has to be. What if the reality is much way larger to what our brains are able to unveil?

When it comes to proofs, how about things like "love"? We all experience love, but can anyone concretely show it and prove it exists? If you love your wife/husband/parents/kids/friends... how can you prove it? By buying presents? But the presents don't prove that there is love. At the same time can we reduce love to some chemical and hormonal (re)actions?

Well, anyway, I didn't come to debate, I just came in here and read some posts and it gave me the impression that in some ways, just like some religions, atheism very often seems to follow the same sort of arrogant "I know better than you" arguments, than actuallh trying to offer real answers to the philosophical questions of our complex existence.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Why is the atheist thread titled the 'athesit' thread? :p
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Did you guys know that I own an invisible T-Rex? You can't see him, hear him, smell him or touch him. But I do own one. You just gotta have faith that I own it
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

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Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I am neither an atheist, nor a religious fanatic. I haven't come to debate. I just wondered. Set aside all the religions, what about your personal quest on the meaning of life? Of consciousness? Of existence? Of the purpose all that we live and experience? Denying the existence of God is one thing, but searching answers without excluding any possibility is another. And trust me, all my life I have been asking all sorts of questions. Every philosophy, mythology, science, teachings, religion, has something to say which is helping understanding the meaning of life. Although I understand that to some a set of religious belif systems is unacceptable, I also have hard time believing that all what we see, live and what exists is fruit coming out of nowhere by pure coincidence.

If someobody told me that the Statue of Liberty is a fruit of coincidence that it is shaped the way it is shaped and that it stands there by pure coincidence thanks to the winds, erosion and years of shaping naturally, I would have hard time believing that person. Yet, a human body which is more complex is easier to believe to be a fruit of coincidence, not to mention the whole universe. Those two things sound contradictory to my mind. .
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I think the "meaning of life" is simply a human concept and simply a human desire to think we are more important in the grand scheme of things than we are. I don't think there is a greater "meaning of life", but humans have a hard time to accept that because naturally we'd like to feel ourselves more important in the Universe than we are.

As for your argument about the Statue of Liberty, it (or variations of it) is a pretty common theist argument but it's fallacious and it stems from the fact that some people (or many) lack knowledge in the theory of evolution and how it works. It has nothing to do with coincidence (nor with the supernatural) and once you read books about evolution you will understand that.
 
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Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
In other words, we tend to be too pride when trying to explain things "naturally".
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It's not about pride. It's about the simple fact that if someone claims something then he needs to prove it. Someone claims there is a god then it's the person who claims it who needs to prove it. So far all such attempts failed and in fact many religious "truths" have been proven wrong by science. Science is not perfect and can be wrong but I find it more genuine in its quest for searching reality and truth than any form of theism. Not to mention it's progressing and it's explanatory power is way more compelling than that of any religious dogma. For example, you mentioned the complexity of the human body. The theory of evolution explains that very well and there is plenty of evidence by now to prove that the theory of evolution is true and that is indeed how the natural world works. There is no need to install some supernatural power to a process that is well explained by proven natural phenomenons.


Actually I see more "pride" in religion because much of the religious way of thinking stems from our desire to feel more important and more special than we are in the Universe. So we imagine that the creator of the Universe personally watches out for us.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Thank you respect77, you said what I was thinking. Back when these questions were asked the fan community was dealing with Safechuck because the news about him was new then so I really didn't feel like talking about atheism vs theism at that time.

Fallacies and an insufficient knowledge of evolution are the most common things I see in theist arguments. Ken Ham's creation museum and the website "Answers In Genesis" are good places to find bad arguments and terrible science and understanding of what science even is.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

I've never understood why people even different creeds believe in karma. I've seen many people posting here karma will make bad people to pay the harm they inflected on Michael and his children, I don't mean to be cruel and/or disrespectful but it kind of bothers me to see that kind of thinking posted and :smilerolleyes: when he's still the example such concept is a humongous pile of bullshit. Michael did nothing but good to people and worried to make them happy and what is he still getting in return? Constant backstabbing and kicks in the ass. I've never seen such despicable individuals facing the consequences of the evil they have inflicted, never. Some of them have even been awarded and fully supported. Totally unfair!
Since we're on a forum dedicated to Michael, I was pointing that out and the truth is that threw no evidence to back up the karma doctrine/teaching whatsoever.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Snow White luvs Peter Pan said:
I've never understood why people even different creeds believe in karma. I've seen many people posting here karma will make bad people to pay the harm they inflected on Michael and his children, I don't mean to be cruel and/or disrespectful but it kind of bothers me to see that kind of thinking posted and :smilerolleyes: when he's still the example such concept is a humongous pile of bullshit. Michael did nothing but good to people and worried to make them happy and what is he still getting in return? Constant backstabbing and kicks in the ass. I've never seen such despicable individuals facing the consequences of the evil they have inflicted, never. Some of them have even been awarded and fully supported. Totally unfair!
Since we're on a forum dedicated to Michael, I was pointing that out and the truth is that threw no evidence to back up the karma doctrine/teaching whatsoever.
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Michael is dead and Jordan Chandler is living a life of luxury with blood money. That should tell anyone right there that karma is bull shit
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

God plays Minecraft

 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

I love Dark Matter videos, they're so funny and reflective.

Neither the Arvizos faced any consequence for commiting fraud, and their shameless lies to ruin Michael's life and reputation and the list could go on and on. People rarely get what they deserve when they do evil onto others. And it's not because of karma crap, justice has been served on few occasions.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Let's say that god really does exist, but then who created god? And if something did create god, and god didn't believe in a higher power than himself, then that would mean god is an atheist
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

^^Apparently God along with his Son and Holy Spirit had existed in eternity before He supposedly created this world. As He has existed since forever, the concept of time does not apply and there's no such thing as the birth of God or its creator - that's what I understand to be Christians' claims.

It doesn't make sense to me.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

It's just the process of evolution, it all started with the big bang! i personally think it will be scientifically proven very soon.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

analogue said:
Let's say that god really does exist, but then who created god? And if something did create god, and god didn't believe in a higher power than himself, then that would mean god is an atheist
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It reminds me of this. LOL.

 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

For what I've learned from Carl Sagan and Neil deGrass Tyson ad their Cosmos series, there are still treils of the Big Bang explosion in universes, according to the investigations made there are chemical components that created the explosion an it's currently the most credible explanation how the Universe was originated. god creating himself/itself out of nothing doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

It annoys me when I see Michael giving credit to god for all the songs he wrote. I just wish that MJ would have taken more pride in what he created himself
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

analogue said:
It annoys me when I see Michael giving credit to god for all the songs he wrote. I just wish that MJ would have taken more pride in what he created himself
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I don't believe Michael's talent has anything to do with a god, since I do not believe in gods, but why should I be annoyed by his beliefs? If it gave him comfort to believe in a god, oh well. The only time I have a problem with religious people is when they try to shove their beliefs down my throat and when they are in positions of power and they use that position to try to make everyone live according to their beliefs.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

It doesn't bother me Michael believed in god or attributed his talent to that usurper, after all, he was heavily indoctrinated by a persuasive sect of nutjobs as a child. Many adults don't achieve, neither want to leave that source of comfort. What bothers me with him is the fact he never took pride or credited himself for all his genius, hard work and dedication. Every time I heard that, I wanted to shake him and tell: "it's you Michael who created all those masterpieces, NO ONE ELSE! You should give yourself the credit."

Besides what respect mentioned about shoving off beliefs, it pisses me off those religious people question my morals and my character just because I'm atheist.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

I don't think Michael's externalizing of his achievements necessarily has anything to do with his religosity. I think it has more to do with character traits like being humble and/or modest, which imo has nothing to do with how religious someone is. Also, creativity is just a curious thing. When you look at creative people throughout the ages, many of them attribute their flashes of inspiration to something other than themselves. There's just something about the sensation of being struck with an idea all of a sudden, seemingly without having put conscious effort into it, that makes it difficult for people to take credit for that. It just feels magical. Can you imagine riding in the back of a car just humming a bit, and suddenly having all the cool hooks that make Billie Jean come into your head? Now, there is a difference of course between taking credit for some inspiration that came to you and taking credit for the many hours of sculpting, molding and perfecting that idea into a beautiful end-product. But again, I think Michael was just a humble and grateful guy.

At the same time, I do think that he also was proud of what he did, even though he might not have wanted to say it too explicitly in public. Even though he was extremely perfectionistic and hard on himself, I always got the impression he could realistically assess his own skills and also realized that it took all the hours of hard work he put in to get him to that level.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

My comment on how he was heavily indoctrinated was meant for the reason I suspect he never stopped believing in Jehovah (YHWH in fact,) therefor holding his beliefs into a god, he wouldn't stop attributing his talent and success to him/it. And yes Michael conducted himself with humbleness but humbleness has nothing to do with giving credit where credit is due.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

respect77 said:
I don't believe Michael's talent has anything to do with a god, since I do not believe in gods, but why should I be annoyed by his beliefs? If it gave him comfort to believe in a god, oh well. The only time I have a problem with religious people is when they try to shove their beliefs down my throat and when they are in positions of power and they use that position to try to make everyone live according to their beliefs.
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I never said I was annoyed by his beliefs. I said I was annoyed by the fact that he didn't take enough pride in his own work
 
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