BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For [General Discussion]

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

These samples aren't hugely impressive but this company can really do wonders.

Was this restored from VHS or from the master film? Many old movies are restored thanks to the master films.

For Bond movies they had the original negatives, that explains it all.

 

[Rhilo]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I wanted to get the collector's edition balck case..
But japanese Michael Jackson store don't deal it and when I asked to USA store,
they don't ship to Japan.

I asked the estimation to a import agency...
I got 310 $ estimation including Tax,fee,postage. :wacko:
(Originally..this item is 199 $ )

I give up to get it.

I hope japanese store will deal it.

Reiko, I'm in the same boat. My country is not even on there! I might check out ebay. For sure a few will end up there, but they might be over priced.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

^
So what can wie asume then?
The concerts are there, ON FILM.
MJ always checked that he had all rights to everything of his material.

Then someone stole it, or hides it from the estate.

I don't think the estate / sony is holding it back on purpose. In the age of BluRay and on the edge of maybe the next best thing, like HVD..

Someone want to contact Nocturne:
http://www.nocturneproductions.com/contact.html

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Was this restored from VHS or from the master film? Many old movies are restored thanks to the master films.

For Bond movies they had the original negatives, that explains it all.

Yeah, if they'd restore VHS, it wouldn't be surely as amazing, but I'm sure they would make it if not great then very good.

 

[azsummergirl]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

different fans clearly haev VERY different view of what an "acceptable" release would be. To the person who said they'd be happy if the quality was the same as yokohama: i personally would absolutely NOT be ok with that.

Yokohama is a bootleg. This is an official release. Even though i love yokohama (since it's pretty much all we have) i find it to be practically unwatchable. so i think some fans are going to be pleased, and some fans are probably going to be really ticked off, on the quality issue.

oh, and as for the question of the level of expertise or skill of the company restoring the VHS: that's not the issue here. They could be the best company in the world (as if they're going to pay for that . . .) but it doesn't matter. It's about what's technically possible when upscaling from a VHS, there's a real, physical tangible limit to what you can do.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

^
So what can wie asume then?
The concerts are there, ON FILM.
MJ always checked that he had all rights to everything of his material.

Then someone stole it, or hides it from the estate.

I don't think the estate / sony is holding it back on purpose. In the age of BluRay and on the edge of maybe the next best thing, like HVD..

Someone want to contact Nocturne:
http://www.nocturneproductions.com/contact.html

I don't think Sony/the Estate is holding back. It's just puzzling that the Estate is not more resourceful. Bad Tour, is argurably, one of Michael's biggest acheivement, the pinnacle of his career. And, the only thing that the Estate has discovered in the past two years is a VHS tape?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Yeah, if they'd restore VHS, it wouldn't be surely as amazing, but I'm sure they would make it if not great then very good.

But again, they may be the best company ever they cannot artificially add 500 pixels to the VHS's 250.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

But again, they may be the best company ever they cannot artificially add 500 pixels to the VHS's 250.

Why do you think the actual VHS is as bad as in teaser?
No one would ever release anything like that ever! It's not up to standarts. I doubt they would release it if quality is that bad even after restoring.

 

[bobmoo79]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Michael always made sure he owned his work 100% and had totally control. he was the one hired the film crew to shoot his concerts, I can't see any reason he didn't have publishing rights when he had placed the songs, audience shoots from his different concerts on many of his videos.

It's been known for years that MJ did not own the rights to the professionally recorded BAD tour concert footage. It's not a secret and it's not new information.

 

[Hess]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Yeah, if they'd restore VHS, it wouldn't be surely as amazing, but I'm sure they would make it if not great then very good.

I so hope you are right!

 

[bobmoo79]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

oh, and as for the question of the level of expertise or skill of the company restoring the VHS: that's not the issue here. They could be the best company in the world (as if they're going to pay for that . . .) but it doesn't matter. It's about what's technically possible when upscaling from a VHS, there's a real, physical tangible limit to what you can do.

Exactly.
You can't create BluRay (or even DVD) quality video from a 20 year old VHS.
It's impossible because you can't add detail that's not there on the original VHS, and VHS was never 'high resolution' so the maximum quality you will ever get with the best people working on it is that of a good (but not perfect) VHS quality release, not even DVD quality.
On the other hand, if you record on film and if the masters are available, you can produce bluray quality video because film has enough picture detail in it to do that.

 

[felipemj]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

You just don't understand do you. It's not even my assumption. I know it for a fact. If you have problems understanding it or believing it, then don't. That's not my problem.

Yes, I understand. You can't assume something someone talked to you, even if was Michael himself who did, as a fact.

 

[Annita]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

And, the only thing that the Estate has discovered in the past two years is a VHS tape?

They didn`t say this. They said it only in relation to the Wembley-concert. And it may be a marketing-thing because it`s the personal VHS from MJ.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

different fans clearly haev VERY different view of what an "acceptable" release would be. To the person who said they'd be happy if the quality was the same as yokohama: i personally would absolutely NOT be ok with that.

Yokohama is a bootleg. This is an official release. Even though i love yokohama (since it's pretty much all we have) i find it to be practically unwatchable. so i think some fans are going to be pleased, and some fans are probably going to be really ticked off, on the quality issue.

oh, and as for the question of the level of expertise or skill of the company restoring the VHS: that's not the issue here. They could be the best company in the world (as if they're going to pay for that . . .) but it doesn't matter. It's about what's technically possible when upscaling from a VHS, there's a real, physical tangible limit to what you can do.

I also love Yokohama. The only things I don't like is the dreadful dripping effect in Thriller and the fading effect in Human Nature. But, hey, those effects were the coolest things in 1987.

I agree with you I expect more from an official release. Seriously, if I don't care about quality, I can buy bootlegs of everything. Yokohama is fan-made bootleg that is available for free and can be downloaded from internet. I would, of course, set my par lower. I'm grateful for the fan's effort and his generosity.

Here, we are talking about an official release in 2012. Will we be okay if they release Bad 25 CD that is not sourced from the original master, but a bootleg cassette tape?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Why do you think the actual VHS is as bad as in teaser?
No one would ever release anything like that ever! It's not up to standarts. I doubt they would release it if quality is that bad even after restoring.

I didn't say so.

I said:
IF they use the VHS as the source itself then the picture on the big screen will be problematic.
IF they use the source of the VHS, the films, then they could make a reasonable quality on DVD, but not as sharp as on a blu-ray.

And above all, what I am saying is exactly the same what Love Is Magical said:

MJ's first world tour as a solo artist with over 100 concerts and the Estate does not possess a single film, only a VHS? It si extremely strange. Especially when you know that MJ shot Captain EO in 3-D (which would today probably cost 2 million per minute to shoot it) in the era when nobody shot in 3-D and today in 2012 we have the complete opposite: VHS????

So, to sum up, I am extremely happy with the BAD 25 release, especially for the live CD and unreleased demos and all the hype that is around, no question.

But when we jokingly talked about VHS to Zakk, and here they go with their release of VHS for real, we can't help but raise some questions.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I didn't say so.

I said:
IF they use the VHS as the source itself then the picture on the big screen will be problematic.
IF they use the source of the VHS, the films, then they could make a reasonable quality on DVD, but not as sharp as on a blu-ray.

And above all, what I am saying is exactly the same what Love Is Magical said:

MJ's first world tour as a solo artist with over 100 concerts and the Estate does not possess a single film, only a VHS? It si extremely strange. Especially when you know that MJ shot Captain EO in 3-D (which would today probably cost 2 million per minute to shoot it) in the era when nobody shot in 3-D and today in 2012 we have the complete opposite: VHS????

So, to sum up, I am extremely happy with the BAD 25 release, especially for the live CD and unreleased demos and all the hype that is around, no question.

But when we jokingly talked about VHS to Zakk, and here they go with their release of VHS for real, we can't help but raise some questions.

Sorry I confused a bit. Yeah you are right.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

They didn`t say this. They said it only in relation to the Wembley-concert. And it may be a marketing-thing because it`s the personal VHS from MJ.

Yes, I understand the Estate said the VHS tape is the only known copy to the Wembley show, not the entire Bad Tour. But, if they have possession of the master film of other Bad concerts, then why use the VHS tape and hold back the better quality film? Just becasue fans have been asking for the Wembley show? Would it make more sense to use the best possible source for the DVD/Blu-ray release and have the Wembley VHS tape as bonus instead?

Again, we live in the age of Blu-ray and wide-screen HD TV, VHS quality DVD is becoming obsolete. It's just like releasing a cassette tape. It's way behind.

 

[loveforever]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

It's been known for years that MJ did not own the rights to the professionally recorded BAD tour concert footage. It's not a secret and it's not new information.

I never heard of it. source? if Michael didn't own the rights, whoever owned it why they didn't release bad dvd during all those years? I think Michael built the company called triumph international to make sure he owned all the copyright of his vision materials, concert footages, and he always hired the professional cameramen to follow him on tour and recorded everything.

 

[Hess]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Hope they have the master film - or gets it somehov...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I heard the opposite, that MJ owned all of his video material and that he didn't want to share it with SONY because he was afraid that they become the only owners.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

If Michael (and thus the Estate) does not have right to the film, then who?

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

If Michael (and thus the Estate) does not have right to the film, then who?

It would be already weird cause they should have the rights
I thought it was weird already that they're using VHS for a release.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I don't think Sony/the Estate is holding back. It's just puzzling that the Estate is not more resourceful. Bad Tour, is argurably, one of Michael's biggest acheivement, the pinnacle of his career. And, the only thing that the Estate has discovered in the past two years is a VHS tape?

You are right. But who is to blame, or maybe not to blame?
I'm puzzled that there has to be things like discovering. Why is there no vault with a door & key & behind it there is all the stuff.
And obviously the key should be in the hands of the estate. The estate in some way is Michael. It is what Michael left, besides his kids. It's his work & his art in it's entirety.

I don't think the estate is lazy or dumb so that they can't find the stuff.

I would assume that someone has taken it away from Michael or that there were bad contracts with the production company.

I mean isn't there more infos on that & why doesn't the estate communicate with us more, so we understand.
I think when they would explain themselves then there would be more sympathy for their situation.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

You are right. But who is to blame, or maybe not to blame?
I'm puzzled that there has to be things like discovering. Why is there no vault with a door & key & behind it there is all the stuff.
And obviously the key should be in the hands of the estate. The estate in some way is Michael. It is what Michael left, besides his kids. It's his work & his art in it's entirety.

I don't think the estate is lazy or dumb so that they can't find the stuff.

I would assume that someone has taken it away from Michael or that there were bad contracts with the production company.

I mean isn't there more infos on that & why doesn't the estate communicate with us more, so we understand.
I think when they would explain themselves then there would be more sympathy for their situation.

I'm thinking out loud here. If indeed, someone besides the Estate has possession of all the films, why would he/she not want to reach out to the Estate? Vice versa, why would the Estate not want to get in touch with them? There must be some kind of paper trail left that shows who has what. That person or production company cannot release the film commercially and make a profit without the approval of the Estate. So, the value of the films is limited. The only way for them to make a profit is to collaborate with the Estate.

I don't think the Estate is lazy or dumb. That's why it's so puzzling. I would not expect the Estate to communicate with us and let us know all details as they don't want to show their hands. They still want to leave an impression that there is a good amount of treasure in the vault. However, with release like this one, the truth is the exact opposite.

 

[Annita]

The publishing-rights, the copyrights are for sure in possesion of the Estate. In case there is someone who is in possesion of a concert he can never publish this concert without the Estate. It`s only for his private possesion. This story is a example for this:

A NEVER-before-seen backstage film of Michael Jackson's legendary Dangerous tour is set to fetch more than £4million when it goes up for auction later this month.
The documentary was made using state-of-the-art equipment.

But the King of Pop canned it and sacked the entire crew — before giving the only existing copy of the film to his DRIVER.

The unnamed chauffeur — who said he helped provide cars for the star when he performed in Sao Paolo, Brazil — claims the star gave it to him as a "reward or a bonus" for his "transportation services".

He kept the video a secret until after Jackson's death in 2009 when he put a short extract of it on YouTube.

Jackson's record label and lawyers demanded exclusive rights — but a court ruled in favour of the driver, saying the film had been a gift.

It was also ruled that he could not make copies of the video, so the man has now decided to put the tape up for sale.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I'm thinking out loud here. If indeed, someone besides the Estate has possession of all the films, why would he/she not want to reach out to the Estate? Vice versa, why would the Estate not want to get in touch with them? There must be some kind of paper trail left that shows who has what. That person or production company cannot release the film commercially and make a profit without the approval of the Estate. So, the value of the films is limited. The only way for them to make a profit is to collaborate with the Estate.

I don't think the Estate is lazy or dumb. That's why it's so puzzling. I would not expect the Estate to communicate with us and let us know all details as they don't want to show their hands. They still want to leave an impression that there is a good amount of treasure in the vault. However, with release like this one, the truth is the exact opposite.

-So, with your last sentence you state that you think in the vault is not a good amount of treasure material.
Am i right?
-MJJLativa says the Bad Tour is on film FOR A FACT.
-Bumper says Michael has always had & kept all rights to the film material to himself.

All three above stated assertions can not be fulfilled.

Because either MJ had/kept all rights to himself - then all the rights would now be in the hands of the estate.
Am i right?
And then they could release what & whenever they want.

But you say the vault probably has not much treasures in there. Then where could it be?
And why do the parties in this case not get in contact and work out an agreement.

Of course i know all the rights to MJ's likeness and audio material is with the estate!
But where is the material???

Why would MJ leave the material with nocturne productions if he has all right to the material.
Why not store it in his vault?

If there is such a thing a vault..

Really I'm very interested in those infos.
And we see here that there are many different and differing opinions. And nobody knows ALL the facts to get the big picture & to close out all the big X & ?

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

-So, with your last sentence you state that you think in the vault is not a good amount of treasure material.
Am i right?
-MJJLativa says the Bad Tour is on film FOR A FACT.
-Bumper says Michael has always had & kept all rights to the film material to himself.

All three above stated assertions can not be fulfilled.

Because either MJ had/kept all rights to himself - then all the rights would now be in the hands of the estate.
Am i right?
And then they could release what & whenever they want.

But you say the vault probably has not much treasures in there. Then where could it be?
And why do the parties in this case not get in contact and work out an agreement.

Of course i know all the rights to MJ's likeness and audio material is with the estate!
But where is the material???

Why would MJ leave the material with nocturne productions if he has all right to the material.
Why not store it in his vault?

If there is such a thing a vault..

Really I'm very interested in those infos.
And we see here that there are many different and differing opinions. And nobody knows ALL the facts to get the big picture & to close out all the big X & ?

What I also know is that VHS version of Wembley is out there also (not just in Michael's personal collection). It's just very very rare and I believe not a lot has it :lol:

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

What I also know is that VHS version of Wembley is out there also (not just in Michael's personal collection). It's just very very rare and I believe not a lot has it :lol:

And i think everyone would appreciate if you share something of your knowledge.
And if you can't share full information maybe you could give some hints about the situation.

Only simply stating that YOU KNOW is a little frustrating.
Much more frustrating to me, than getting a dvd with enhanced vhs quality of wembley '88. :-D

 

[nesman43]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Bottom line is that no one knows about the finances of MJ in relation to the bad tour film. What we do know is that the Estate obviously does not have access to them and is not in possession of them. It's not like the estate is sitting on all these master tapes thinking "well we really should use that VHS tape guys!". The only options I can think of are
1) The entire concert possibly wasn't filmed (only certain songs)
2) Due to contractual issues: The masters are owned by Nocturne Productions and estate wasn't able to come to agreement with them in regards to finances. Most likely the company that owns the masters is greedy and expects a high amount since it's MJ.

Whatever the reasoning is, we aren't going to find out anytime soon. The Estate is not going to reveal important financial information and business propositions to the general public.

MJ's first world tour as a solo artist with over 100 concerts and the Estate does not possess a single film, only a VHS? It si extremely strange. Especially when you know that MJ shot Captain EO in 3-D (which would today probably cost 2 million per minute to shoot it) in the era when nobody shot in 3-D and today in 2012 we have the complete opposite: VHS????

MJ didn't shoot Captain EO or pay for it, that was funded by the Walt Disney Company and Kodak in a joint effort. At it's time Captain EO cost about 2 million per minute, that is without inflation so it would be even more if you took that into account. The camera was created for a film called "Magic Journeys" a few years beforehand that was also at Disneyland (this was also with Kodak involved). Disney paid Michael to appear in the film, he didn't fund it. Probably the best ride ever made and it's my favorite music video. Everytime the singing is about to start I just want to jump out of my seat in excitement. Great theming, choreography, costumes, story, and music.

BAD-themed case
T-shirt and
"BAD Tour souvenir package"
(a concert ticket replica, a reproduction of the 1988 BAD Tour Program and an all-access backstage pass and lanyard)

Thanks for the info, some interesting stuff but nothing that warrants 4x the price of the deluxe in my opinion. Maybe if some retailer other than MJ.com was selling it and priced it competitively I'd reconsider my opinion. How big is the case? Unless it's like the size of furniture or something I really don't understand the pricing.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Unless the Estate has other projects regarding the videos and doesn't want to hand it over to SONY. If it is true that MJ didn't want to release the video stuff when he was with SONY, maybe the Estate is continuing to respect his wish and are preparing videos for future projects. I am just being optimistic.