Book: Remember the Time: Protecting Michael Jackson in His Final Days / Review @pg8

[Tygger]

Soundmind, I will feel free to maintain my view as you are free to continue whatever it is that you do.

 

[Warszawa320]

Jamba, I agree with your post. Michael always demanded the best and in the latter portion of his life he did not. His supporting team was mediocre and that team included these authors.

These tales have no beginning and no ending, only middles. Michael was a grown man and if he wanted to continue to the party, he would have. Virre stated previously that Michael may have had a legal situation that was dealt with that day as well. It is anyone’s guess what Michael was lamenting the three days afterward and fortunately he has been able to keep those thoughts private.




Not surprising. I have lost countu with the number of people who came into Michael’s life and attempted to ingratiate themselves to him to somehow gain his favor. So many vultures dressed as want-to-be saviors competing to be Michael’s most special confidante. Eventually they realize they are replaceable. By that time, a competition has already ensued and horrible things were said and done in their desperation to keep close (in their mind) to Michael. Insane.

I am unsure that they were going to London and were still in Vegas. AEG hired everyone for TII and I do not remember these authors on the AEG payroll.



Incorrect. AliCat stated she read it and did not appreciate it. Others have discussed sections they read and those sections were not exactly complimentary to Michael. Not everyone who purchases the book will enjoy it as it happens with any book. It is also is not necessary to purchase the book to read it.

Why is it necessary that anyone support these authors financially? Michael’s estate does not benefit from this book.

The book is one of the best written about Michael and it selling very well so far. I personally don't mind bodyguards earn some money for their work on this project. I definitely would favor their book over Halperin, Sullivan, Tarraboreli, Bob Jones, Diane Dimon or even Jermaine Jackson books. And by the way bodyguards were working in Las Vegas planning the security system for the residence rented for MJ in England. And they got invitation for Michael memorial from AEG. Plus they stayed in Vegas because they lived in Vegas with their families.

 

[MIST]

I just wanted to point out that in the book, Michael is not painted as some naïve person who is unaware of the world and his surroundings.

There is a chapter in there about his time in Virginia. The bodyguards would take him around so he could see the sights and Michael would explain all the Civil War historical areas to his kids. He could explain Bull Run and where the Union Army did such and such. He even knew the location where 5,000 Confederate soldiers were killed.
He also visited the Vietnam War wall and the Washington Monument with Friend. He was aware of all these historical areas.

He knew his stuff. Very few Americans even have a good grasp of that kind of American history, and he knew it like that back of his hand. Impressive and wise.

"Speechless"

Your love is magical, that's how I feel
But I have not the words here to explain
Gone is the grace for expressions of passion
But there are worlds and worlds of ways to explain
To tell you how I feel
But I am speechless, speechless
That's how you make me feel
Though I'm with you I am far away and nothing is for real
When I'm with you I am lost for words, I don't know what to say
My head's spinning like a carousel, so silently I pray
Helpless and hopeless, that's how I feel inside
Nothing's real, but all is possible if God is on my side
When I'm with you I am in the light where I cannot be found
It's as though I am standing in the place called Hallowed Ground
Speechless, speechless, that's how you make me feel
Though I'm with you I am far away and nothing is for real
I'll go anywhere and do anything just to touch your face
There's no mountain high I cannot climb
I'm humbled in your grace
Speechless, speechless, that's how you make me feel
Though I'm with you I am lost for words and nothing is for real
Speechless, speechless, that's how you make me feel
Though I'm with you I am far away, and nothing is for real
Speechless, speechless, that's how you make me feel
Though I'm with you I am lost for words and nothing is for real
SpeechlessYour love is magical, that's how I feel
But in your presence I am lost for words
Words like, "I love you."

You can see in Michael´s lyrics that he knew american history.
Hallowed Ground took me to Gettysburg, Monticello..they write where America happened in the page I came to
http://www.hallowedground.org/

 

[HIStory]

For those who hate this book and think it's too much of an intrusion... look at it this way. In the future generations to come who want to learn about Michael, they will seek out books written. They will probably be interested in learning about his life after the trial.

Well, there's this:

And Ian Halperin can become the historian who talks about his life as a man who went out as a woman to roach-infested motels to hook up with a burly Asian dude for rendezvous.

Or we can embrace what his close bodyguards witnessed and lived through every day. And believe me, those bodyguards are way more accurate than that clown Halperin to write Michael's history.

Yes, that is the dilemma to me as well, than puts me on the fence.

I'm not totally comfortable with what the BGs are doing here and it's definitely not ethical. On the other hand, unfortunately there's so much trash out there about Michael that there needs to be a balance. Michael was very private. The media and people should respect that, but unfortunately they do not. They want to know and if there is no information then they fill in the gaps with trash they make up, as we have seen over and over again. If someone walks in a book store and wants to read a book about MJ I'd rather want him to find and pick up the BGs book than Halperin's, Sullivan's, Taraborelli's, Dimond's, Bob Jones' or Ray Chandler's. Although I cannot fully support the BGs book, but I do not mind it that much that it's out there. Rather this than some trash. Same with Frank Cascio's or Jermaine's book. In an ideal world people and the media would respect Michael's wish to keep his private life private and would only be interested in books about his art, but we do not live in an ideal world unfortunately. So if people want to buy something about the private MJ at least there is some alternative to the trash that is already out there. I do not want the Diane Dimonds of this world to dictate the public narrative about MJ.

 

[Bubs]

I really don't understand your post? Nobody is forcing anybody to discuss issues the person is not interested in. I personally love to know everything about my favorite composers like Chopin, Mozart, Beethoven and some others because except their art I'm also fascinated with them from psychological point of view. I feel exactly the same about Michael Jackson. And I'm sure many other people have the same opinion on the subject. Do you really think that your complains may change people approach to the subject of Michael Jackson? And what about every other historical figure?

I agree with you. Whether we like it or not, Michael is historical figure, as much as any other historical figures out there, such as Elvis, Lennon and Mozart, Beethoven ect and his life is going to be studied and written years to come. We cannot do anything to stop these books to be written, but we can pick and choose what we read and support. I don't agree certain things about this book, but I have to put aside my feelings and think if this is good book of Michael and will portray him as truthful as possible.

 

[Bubs]

I have a question for people who read this book. Is this real snippet from the book:
Whitfield: I didn’t care what he wanted. I just wanted him outside the gate. I put my pistol away, trying to cool things down. I asked him to exit his vehicle so we could talk in a civilized manner. He refused. He just sat there in the car, threatening to call the press if he didn’t get to see his brother. I didn’t want him to call the press, and I couldn’t call the cops because that would just bring the press too. I was stuck. I had this angry little asshole cussing in my face, and I couldn’t do anything about it."

Did they really call Randy angry little asshole in the book? If they did, that is good enough reason for me to get this book:rollin:

This bit is so sad and shows what Michael thought Joe was good at.
“They’re all devils. I should have my father come and kick their asses.”

Joe probably take this as compliments but it really isn't.

 

[Bubs]

Whitfield: A couple of weeks later, the whole family showed up—all of them. Around midnight, we walked out to the front and saw a bunch of people standing outside the gate. There were a whole lot of familiar faces. Looked like everybody except Randy and Marlon. For a minute it was like I was looking at some kind of Jackson reunion special.

Beard: They all had on hats and sunglasses. It was very incognito, this big family of famous people standing out on the sidewalk in the middle of the night, and quiet all around.

Whitfield: I walked up to the gate, asked them what their business was this time of night. They said, “We heard our brother’s sick. We came to make sure he’s OK.”

I told them I hadn’t seen any signs that Mr. Jackson wasn’t okay. They told me they wanted to see for themselves and weren’t leaving until they did. So now I was in a jam. We had strict instructions from Mr. Jackson not to bother him, but at the same time we couldn’t just leave the entire Jackson family standing in the street at 1 a.m. without it turning into a scene, which Mr. Jackson also wouldn’t want.

I told them to hold on. I went back to the house, rang the doorbell. When Mr. Jackson came to the door, I said, “Sir, your family is out front, and they insist on seeing you.”

He was not happy. He was pissed, and I could tell he was pissed at me for not handling the situation myself. I said, “They heard you were sick and they want to know if you’re okay.”

“I’m fine, I’m fine,” he said. “Tell them I’m fine.”

“Sir, they’re not leaving until they see you.”

He went quiet for a moment, then said, “OK, I’ll meet with them. But I don’t want them in the house.”

“I can bring them over to the security trailer. You can talk to them in there.”

“Fine. But I’ll only speak to my brothers.”

Then he asked if Randy was there. I said I didn’t see him. “Good,” he said. “I don’t want to see Randy.”

I went back to the gate and said, “Mr. Jackson just wants to see his brothers.”

This voice from the back said, “What about me?”

At first I couldn’t see who it was. Then I realized it was Janet.

“Sorry, ma’am. He said only his brothers.” She was not happy about that.

The brothers came in. I escorted them over to the trailer, and they stepped inside. Then I called Mr. Jackson and he came down and joined them. They closed the door and talked for about 20 minutes. Mr. Jackson came out first. Walked straight into the house. Didn’t say anything. The brothers came out, walked to the gate, and that was it. What they talked about, I don’t know."
----------------------

I suppose that was the occasion what they call intervention, but rest of the world call it them trying to get Michael to do concert with family, including Janet.
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...oncert-Tours?p=3885828&viewfull=1#post3885828

 

[GreenEyes]

For those who have read the book:

I'm trying to place faces with names.

I know that Bill is the man on the left. Is that John Feldman to the right? I've seen this man in many pictures, but never knew his name. He is discussed a lot in the book.

 

[GreenEyes]

I have a question for people who read this book. Is this real snippet from the book:
Whitfield: I didn’t care what he wanted. I just wanted him outside the gate. I put my pistol away, trying to cool things down. I asked him to exit his vehicle so we could talk in a civilized manner. He refused. He just sat there in the car, threatening to call the press if he didn’t get to see his brother. I didn’t want him to call the press, and I couldn’t call the cops because that would just bring the press too. I was stuck. I had this angry little asshole cussing in my face, and I couldn’t do anything about it."

Did they really call Randy angry little asshole in the book? If they did, that is good enough reason for me to get this book:rollin:

This bit is so sad and shows what Michael thought Joe was good at.
“They’re all devils. I should have my father come and kick their asses.”

Joe probably take this as compliments but it really isn't.

Haha! Yes, they did call him a little asshole.

 

[ivy]

Incorrect. AliCat stated she read it and did not appreciate it.

I said "majority of the negative comments are coming from people who haven't read the book ". majority - not all. and Alicat reading the book doesn't change the fact that you for example is commenting here without reading it.

Others have discussed sections they read and those sections were not exactly complimentary to Michael which spurred conversation.

and I said exactly that " The people who have read the book have mentioned some negative aspects"

Not everyone who purchases the book will enjoy it as it happens with any book.

absolutely which I said for months since the first review, even mentioned how some people might see it as invasion of privacy.

It is also is not necessary to purchase the book to read it.

True but I'm not the kind of person who would advocate for copyright infringement. Though my post of "and even return it if you don't like it." gave the option of returning if the book if she doesn't like it - aka get her money back.

so what's your point?

Why is it necessary that anyone support these authors financially? Michael’s estate does not benefit from this book.

and why are you so against people buying this book? How does that affect you or Jacksons?

 

[Paris78]

Canada AM Book Beat @AMBookBeat · 3 h.

MT: @Katie__J Michael Jackson's security team @MJBODYGUARDS chat w @marciIen on @CTVCanadaAM. Watch here http://ow.ly/xHDmw

Retweetet von Bill Whitfield
KiSS 92.5 @KiSS925 · June 5th

#RozandMocha - photo- @michaeljackson's last bodyguards Bill & Javon @mjbodyguards at @KiSS925

 

[AliCat]

Personally I thing your assessment is very immature. Except few things (but not those you listed above) Michael in bodyguards book is exactly Michael most long times fans always knew and loved.

I don't doubt that Michael Jackson had to heal emotionally from the trial in 2005. The Prince of Bahrain invited Michael to come and live in his country. The Prince and Michael were going to do several projects together. Some business things came into Michael's life the year he spent in Bahrain and Michael decided to leave. I think through Michael's inner strength, he was able to just leave. Michael did not want to put his signature, so to speak, to the project's with the Prince of Bahrain. The Prince took this as a personal insult and did not want Michael to think it was just a "gift" without any work to earn what the Prince of Bahrain financially did for Michael Jackson.

The bodyguard's made Michael seem more whimpy than anything else. I still agree with jamba's assesment of what went wrong with the bodyguard's. The power behind the throne in the hiring of the gents was Raymone Bain, as she was handling Michael's affairs. The bodyguard's gave me the impression that Michael was too immature to figure things out about his own company, because the bodyguard's had a real beef about being paid.

I'm sorry that you feel differently and felt my post was immature. I was being as candid as I could be after just arriving home from the bookstore and felt offended by the description that the bodyguard's verbiage of their description of Michael. I understand you may think that Michael was not his strongest, but I see Michael more of an internal power of strength. This is why he was able to go back out there, even though he would second guess himself. I don't perceive Michael as a coward who just ran away from his problems. Maybe the Ronald Reagan slogan would have been best served for Michael Jackson: "Trust but verify," although, eventually, he figured things out because of what happened to the bodyguard's when Michael Amir Williams came on the scene. Even Raymone Bain was being replaced, with Londell McMillan in taking better care of Michael's business affairs.

That's how Michael replaced people because it eventually came to light that things weren't going right and Michael would find different people to help him out. This is why I still believe Michael Jackson was more in charge of his life, his powerful inner strength, then he is given credit for. It was like the bodyguard's were making an excuse to justify why they did what they did, their action's and excusing Michael's behavior and this is why I perceived the bodyguard's looked at Michael in a very immature way. I believe they were somewhat star struck, hence why the book has been published and once again, they didn't keep the business relationship with Michael Jackson on that level. The bodyguard's give you the impression that they wanted their relationship with Michael's family, more of a personal situation and how much they befriended Michael by being supportive on a more personal level than that of employee - employer. The line became more and more blurred for the bodyguard's and hence why Michael is given the appearance of being "immature" without a brain to think. Michael was always business savvy and he came to this realization every time. Just going over his different lawsuits helps to draw this conclusion. Perhaps it didn't help Michael's reputation in the business world. Hence why Philip Anschutz was hesitant about working with Michael Jackson. The only time he didn't realize it, was with Conrad Murray, because Michael died under his care. That the bodyguard's tale makes Michael come across as immature is to give the impression that poor little ol' Conrad Murray did have a good bedside manner. That's what I took away from reading the book of what led up to Michael's demise. Michael just wasn't in his right mind!

 

[Tygger]

And by the way bodyguards were working in Las Vegas planning the security system for the residence rented for MJ in England. And they got invitation for Michael memorial from AEG. Plus they stayed in Vegas because they lived in Vegas with their families.

I personally do not believe they were going to London and they stated they were still handling Michael's affairs in Vegas. By the way, they requested the invitations to the memorial and AEG complied.

The only time he didn't realize it, was with Conrad Murray, because Michael died under his care. That the bodyguard's tale makes Michael come across as immature is to give the impression that poor little ol' Conrad Murray did have a good bedside manner. That's what I took away from reading the book of what led up to Michael's demise. Michael just wasn't in his right mind!

They previously said the doctor should not be at fault for Michael's passing. After discovering fans did not find those comments acceptable, they refrained from saying such.

Ivy, you are still incorrect. There is a conversation continuing with many vocal posters, not just me, in case you missed it.

My question was why it is so important that any one purchase this book to read the amazing tales of Michael Jackson as can only be told by yet another one of his random saviors. Why assume copyright infringement when anyone can go to a local library or local bookstore and put the book back on the shelf when completed. Copyright infringement should be an issue on a Michael Jackson forum when it comes to Michael’s art not when his ex-employees decide to write a tell-all.

 

[Warszawa320]

I personally do not believe they were going to London and they stated they were still handling Michael's affairs in Vegas. By the way, they requested the invitations to the memorial and AEG complied.




They previously said the doctor should not be at fault for Michael's passing. After discovering fans did not find those comments acceptable, they refrained from saying such.

Ivy, you are still incorrect. There is a conversation continuing with many vocal posters, not just me, in case you missed it.

My question was why it is so important that any one purchase this book to read the amazing tales of Michael Jackson as can only be told by yet another one of his random saviors. Why assume copyright infringement when anyone can go to a local library or local bookstore and put the book back on the shelf when completed. Copyright infringement should be an issue on a Michael Jackson forum when it comes to Michael’s art not when his ex-employees decide to write a tell-all.

It's your prerogative in what you believe regarding anything BG wrote. For 9o% people there is no reason not to believe them because many facts were publicly known already. This book is just kind of fresh air after many other books and especially after Katherine Jackson lawsuit. You won't change the fact that the book is very well written and most people enjoy it. It's written in a very respectful way about MJ, his children and even the other Jacksons (except Randy). And yes I will donate the books to the free libraries as soon as I will have more copies. For sure I'm going to keep one copy at home and another one in my car.

 

[ivy]

My question was why it is so important that any one purchase this book to read the amazing tales of Michael Jackson as can only be told by yet another one of his random saviors.

It's not "important" as you make it sound like however I maintain that a person that reads the book would know more than a person that didn't read the book.

Why assume copyright infringement when anyone can go to a local library or local bookstore and put the book back on the shelf when completed.

That's fine and it's same as buying a book and returning it back if you don't like it.

Copyright infringement should be an issue on a Michael Jackson forum when it comes to Michael’s art not when his ex-employees decide to write a tell-all.

this I'll disagree with. I personally do not download any leaks so naturally I don't believe "don't steal Michael's art but you can steal other people's work". It's a little hypocritical in my opinion.

Combination of the above : My desire to respect everyone work and not acting like a know it all without even reading the book are my reasons why I buy any and all books about MJ. There have been books that I didn't like and hence returned back so I'm okay with the concept of getting your money back if the product is unsatisfactory concept. Still I recommend reading a book in any legitimate way - library, in the store, buying and so on - over speculating on a book without reading it.

 

[Soundmind]

guys any stories about Bankito in the book, got sick of hearing about those Jacksons leaches. We need to hear about MJ and his kids.

 

[GreenEyes]

guys any stories about Bankito in the book, got sick of hearing about those Jacksons leaches. We need to hear about MJ and his kids.

Yes. They said that Blanket was the typical rambunctious little boy.

One time while the guards were outside making their rounds, Blanket pushed one of the panic buttons in the house, which would sound a very loud alarm inside the security trailer. The guard heard it. He ran into the house with his gun drawn and saw Michael, Paris and Prince sitting at the table eating breakfast. Blanket was in the next room by the TV, where the panic button was. Turns out he was running around the house pushing buttons. Blanket burst out, "Bill, is that a real gun?" He was all excited. Michael was not. Haha!

They also said they had to watch him closely when they went out because Blanket would just take off running in whatever store they were in.

 

[ivy]

guys any stories about Bankito in the book, got sick of hearing about those Jacksons leaches. We need to hear about MJ and his kids.

I love the hippopotamus story.

Michael takes the kids to the zoo and Blanket is amused by the hippo. By then Prince has Kenya and Paris has Katie so Blanket calls out to Michael and says "Daddy I want one of those as my pet". Michael replies "We'll have to see about that". zookeeper gives Blanket apples so that he could throw them to the hippo so Javon lifts him so that Blanket can toss the apples above the fence. When Javon puts him down, Blanket immediately starts to climb the fence.

They also said they had to watch him closely when they went out because Blanket would just take off running in whatever store they were in.

yeah they mention going to the bookstore and Michael wanting everyone go through the store together from section to section. apparently Blanket would immediately run to the kids section of the bookstore and the bodyguards would have to chase him through the store and when they made Blanket come back to where the rest of his family was he would catch a little attitude.

Oh and apparently Blanket loved Krispy Kreme donuts. Michael sometimes as a treat took the kids to the fast food restaurants such as McDonalds and everyone placed their order through drive through. So they are at a McDonalds, Michael then Prince then Paris places their orders and it's Blanket's turn and he asks for Krispy Kreme donuts from Mcdonalds.

 

[marebear]

I am kind of in the middle. I want Michael to have his privacy but I also want people to understand him better. To see what a good person he was. You want some kind of balance if possible. I would prefer a book where Michael is respected and not those other books where they have no clue and make things up. I tend to like more books like Joe Vogel about the work and things like that more. That is just how I feel anyways.

 

[VeraR]

Whitfield: A couple of weeks later, the whole family showed up—all of them. Around midnight, we walked out to the front and saw a bunch of people standing outside the gate. There were a whole lot of familiar faces. Looked like everybody except Randy and Marlon. For a minute it was like I was looking at some kind of Jackson reunion special.

Beard: They all had on hats and sunglasses. It was very incognito, this big family of famous people standing out on the sidewalk in the middle of the night, and quiet all around.

Whitfield: I walked up to the gate, asked them what their business was this time of night. They said, “We heard our brother’s sick. We came to make sure he’s OK.”

I told them I hadn’t seen any signs that Mr. Jackson wasn’t okay. They told me they wanted to see for themselves and weren’t leaving until they did. So now I was in a jam. We had strict instructions from Mr. Jackson not to bother him, but at the same time we couldn’t just leave the entire Jackson family standing in the street at 1 a.m. without it turning into a scene, which Mr. Jackson also wouldn’t want.

I told them to hold on. I went back to the house, rang the doorbell. When Mr. Jackson came to the door, I said, “Sir, your family is out front, and they insist on seeing you.”

He was not happy. He was pissed, and I could tell he was pissed at me for not handling the situation myself. I said, “They heard you were sick and they want to know if you’re okay.”

“I’m fine, I’m fine,” he said. “Tell them I’m fine.”

“Sir, they’re not leaving until they see you.”

He went quiet for a moment, then said, “OK, I’ll meet with them. But I don’t want them in the house.”

“I can bring them over to the security trailer. You can talk to them in there.”

“Fine. But I’ll only speak to my brothers.”

Then he asked if Randy was there. I said I didn’t see him. “Good,” he said. “I don’t want to see Randy.”

I went back to the gate and said, “Mr. Jackson just wants to see his brothers.”

This voice from the back said, “What about me?”

At first I couldn’t see who it was. Then I realized it was Janet.

“Sorry, ma’am. He said only his brothers.” She was not happy about that.

The brothers came in. I escorted them over to the trailer, and they stepped inside. Then I called Mr. Jackson and he came down and joined them. They closed the door and talked for about 20 minutes. Mr. Jackson came out first. Walked straight into the house. Didn’t say anything. The brothers came out, walked to the gate, and that was it. What they talked about, I don’t know."
----------------------

I suppose that was the occasion what they call intervention, but rest of the world call it them trying to get Michael to do concert with family, including Janet.
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...oncert-Tours?p=3885828&viewfull=1#post3885828

Bubs, I read the full context of this story that someone posted several pages back. It was that the kids were ill, MJ had taken them to see a doctor and word had got out, by a receptionist (I think) and picked up by the family, that MJ had been there and was sick ... hence their somewhat over the top dead of night visit. It went on to explain Paris didn't get better and thus entered Murray into their lives by doing a house call.

Nothing about an 'intervention' or anything sinister (apart from a slack mouthed receptionist and the difficulties of simply 'going to the doctors') from the bodyguards' perspective.

 

[Tygger]

Warszawa320, 90% of the people, eh? Oh, joy.

It's not "important" as you make it sound like however I maintain that a person that reads the book would know more than a person that didn't read the book.

This has been one of the weakest if not the weakest retort in this thread that you continually repeat for whatever your reasons. No one has to purchase (because I understand purchasing is the important issue here) and then read a book to know if they agree with the subject matter as you have proven in a certain Kickstarter initiative thread. Are you aware others in the thread have not read the book or, are you only obsessed with my status? I believe you are aware many fans admittedly did not read Sullivan’s book before writing faux reviews on Amazon. Unfortunately, they missed some enlightening views on Michael and estate planning.

I believe you understand that going to a library or local bookstore and returning the book to the shelf after completion is not the same as purchasing the book nor is it copyright infringement.

If you would like to encourage others to hear the tales simply because of their importance and historical value then, purchase of the book is not the primary focus or goal. Other acceptable suggestions are a library or free time in a local bookstore. A free audiobook trial is another free method which is on par with the free trial of Sony Music Unlimited to hear Xscape before its release. It may very well lead to the all important book purchase.

 

[GreenEyes]

Wow, this thread has really been hijacked.

It's pretty much impossible for those of us who want to talk about the events in the book to do so. :mello:

But I guess that was the intention.

 

[Petrarose]

and why not buy the book, read it and make up your own mind about it? You don't need to buy multiple copies to gift, you can buy a single copy and read it and even return it if you don't like it.

^^Thanks for your post. You are forgetting that I can't buy the book, read it, and return it, because it is not something I would normally read. I am only buying it for support. I don't like autobiographical type books. I think the closest I read to one was the fan's Love book and I told myself that would be the last one. (Of course Michael's Moonwalk was an exception because back when it came out, I was told it was more about his music.) It is not that I think the book is bad, but I know it is not the type of thing I will sit down in the house with, curl up with a glass of wine, and read. It is like me going to kids movies to take some kids, but I have no interest in looking at the whole movie myself. I usually bring music and take a nap until the movie ends. I know exactly how I am, so I know I will not read the book. I know it sounds strange since I am in the thread. That is why I was trying to get a sense of the book in advance, but when I read one person's post about what she got from the book about Michael & the BG, I was alarmed.

Anyway it is better than Weisner for sure and better than all the tabloid books, and I have up to the end of the month to make up my mind.

Greeneyes of course you can talk about the book. I think the problem is that some people are stressing the negative aspects of the book and how it made them feel, and you know what that type of information will cause, especially for those who do not have the book yet.

 

[Lisha]

Greeneyes, of course you can talk about the book. I think the problem is that some people are stressing the negative aspects of the book and how it made them feel, and you know what that type of information will cause, especially for those who do not have the book yet.

Am I one of those people, and have I caused a problem, Petrerose? And what will "that type of information" cause?

 

[Ramona122003]

Wow, this thread has really been hijacked.

It's pretty much impossible for those of us who want to talk about the events in the book to do so. :mello:

But I guess that was the intention.

It is always the same when these types of books come out about Michael. The same thing happened when Frank released his book. For some fans, it does not matter if the book is positive or truthful, they just do not like any book released about Micahel's personal life. That is fine. That is your opinion, and you are welcome to it. You are also welcomed to share your opinion, this is a forum after all.

However, fans who like and enjoy these types of book have the right to their opinion and should not be beggared and made to feel bad because they support this kind of effort. The bodyguards also deserved to be paid since they spent years working on this book. Whether you support it or not is a personal matter, but you should not go around saying you should basically steal the book to read. If you think it is wrong, don't read it at all.

My opinion, I personally do not read these kind of books. They are just not my thing. However, I do hope more books like this will be written. The fact of the matter, people are always going to write books about Michael. He is a historical and important figure, just like Walt Disney and any American President. Books about him as a person will be written regardless if you think it is wrong or right and I prefer to have books written by people who knew Michael instead of know-nothing reporters who used tabs as source material.

Also, we have to come to terms that there is a generation being born that will never know Michael. We grew up with him and got to know him though his actions, words, music, and the history he made. For this new generation, they will not have that. Michael will not be a person, but a figure and how they see him will be painted by books and interviews as well as his music. Fifty years from now, do you want the people writing Michael's history to be people like Weisner or even the Jacksons who threw him under the bus so they could win their lawsuit against AEG, or do you want it to be written by people who were around him and had an insider view, even if that view-point is bias and flawed. This is the reality, whether we liked it or not.

That is my take on everything. We all want what's best for Michael. We just have different ideas about how to achieve it.

 

[ivy]

Are you aware others in the thread have not read the book or, are you only obsessed with my status?

all of my posts have been general and I wasn't limiting it to you so it's not really my problem if you choose to take it personal.

It doesn't matter if it is you or me or anyone, a person that reads it knows more than a person that doesn't read it. The more information you have the more knowledgeable you are, it is as simple as that. It's not a "retort" either. I believe it 100%. That's the reason why I spend my own money to buy the court documents and read it full at the source too. that's my style.

I believe you are aware many fans admittedly did not read Sullivan’s book before writing faux reviews on Amazon.

relevance? I bought and read it too. I cannot stop you from commenting negatively on a book you didn't read and I cannot stop anyone commenting on another book they didn't read either.

Unfortunately, they missed some enlightening views on Michael and estate planning.

I'm aware how some people LOVE Sullivan book because of the negative stuff said about MJ Estate. However I'm also quite aware how Sullivan book portrayed Jacksons - especially Randy Jackson- negatively and how much negative stuff if had about Michael as well. as I said I read that book too. Are you sure that you want to portray that book as something good for Michael and/or Jacksons?

I believe you understand that going to a library or local bookstore and returning the book to the shelf after completion is not the same as purchasing the book nor is it copyright infringement.

the point was I'm okay with legit ways of reading a book without spending money on it - either it is reading it at a library, reading at a book store or buying and then returning it (hence no money spent on it). I'll never get why you try to disagree with me when I'm agreeing with you.

Other acceptable suggestions are a library or free time in a local bookstore.

and I said it. I recommend reading a book in any legitimate way - library, in the store, buying and so on - over speculating on a book without reading it.. so as I said I'm agreeing with you so I don't get why you are on an autopilot disagree mood.

read a book to know if they agree with the subject matter as you have proven in a certain Kickstarter initiative thread.

you are putting words in my mouth here. If and when that book and any other book is released I would buy and read it. However that book was asking for significant amount of money /donations and I had questions about the project before donating anything. It didn't mean I wouldn't read it.

because it is not something I would normally read. I know exactly how I am, so I know I will not read the book.

Well that's your answer there. I didn't know this. I thought you were trying to make up your mind to buy it or not based on fan reviews and conflicted. If this is not something you would normally read then don't buy it. You trying to support projects is a very generous act on your part but I wouldn't support something I don't believe it. So I guess you can just pass it.

It is always the same when these types of books come out about Michael. The same thing happened when Frank released his book. For some fans, it does not matter if the book is positive or truthful, they just do not like any book released about Micahel's personal life. That is fine. That is your opinion, and you are welcome to it. You are also welcomed to share your opinion, this is a forum after all.

However, fans who like and enjoy these types of book have the right to their opinion and should not be beggared and made to feel bad because they support this kind of effort. The bodyguards also deserved to be paid since they spent years working on this book. Whether you support it or not is a personal matter, but you should not go around saying you should basically steal the book to read. If you think it is wrong, don't read it at all.

My opinion, I personally do not read these kind of books. They are just not my thing. However, I do hope more books like this will be written. The fact of the matter, people are always going to write books about Michael. He is a historical and important figure, just like Walt Disney and any American President. Books about him as a person will be written regardless if you think it is wrong or right and I prefer to have books written by people who knew Michael instead of know-nothing reporters who used tabs as source material.

Also, we have to come to terms that there is a generation being born that will never know Michael. We grew up with him and got to know him though his actions, words, music, and the history he made. For this new generation, they will not have that. Michael will not be a person, but a figure and how they see him will be painted by books and interviews as well as his music. Fifty years from now, do you want the people writing Michael's history to be people like Weisner or even the Jacksons who threw him under the bus so they could win their lawsuit against AEG, or do you want it to be written by people who were around him and had an insider view, even if that view-point is bias and flawed. This is the reality, whether we liked it or not.

That is my take on everything. We all want what's best for Michael. We just have different ideas about how to achieve it.

I just wanted to say I agree with this wholeheartedly.

 

[Petrarose]

Am I one of those people, and have I caused a problem, Petrerose? And what will "that type of information" cause?

I just mean that if anyone discloses any information about Michael from the book that is essentially negative/dismaying, it is a natural thing for some on the forum to show strong views about it. This is a typical thing that happens on the forum, so in a sense no one should be surprised by it. Now whether you did that, I can't recall. Also, if fans give positive information about things written in the book, you will have many fans commenting on that too.

Ivy about your comment: If this is not something you would normally read then don't buy it. You trying to support projects is a very generous act on your part but I wouldn't support something I don't believe it. So I guess you can just pass it.

^^Well I can't do that. Just because I would not read the thing, it does not mean I should not buy it, if my aim is to support a type of book that is not just 100% tabloid and shows a different side of Michael. What I am getting at is that a book could not be my thing, but if it has some overall goodness, I will support it to help spread that goodness around. With a book, I could buy a few copies and gift them. Like you, I would not support something I don't believe in, but that is not my issue. It is not that I don't believe in the book, but that those types of book are not my cup of tea. An example is many times on the train some young rapper will come on, sing a rap, and try to sell his music. Now I know very well I am not going to listen to that rap CD, but because the person is young and he is trying to peddle his talent, I support him by buying the cd. You never know, he might become famous one day. Usually I give it to some youths once I leave the train. A book I would not believe in is a Sullivan book. Now with the bodyguards, all I want is a balanced review of the book, which I am still waiting for.

 

[Petrarose]

Ivy I borrowed this from someone's post. Can you take a look at it and tell me if it relates to anything specific in the book. I will really appreciate it:

I don't doubt that Michael Jackson had to heal emotionally from the trial in 2005. The Prince of Bahrain invited Michael to come and live in his country. The Prince and Michael were going to do several projects together. Some business things came into Michael's life the year he spent in Bahrain and Michael decided to leave. I think through Michael's inner strength, he was able to just leave. Michael did not want to put his signature, so to speak, to the project's with the Prince of Bahrain. The Prince took this as a personal insult and did not want Michael to think it was just a "gift" without any work to earn what the Prince of Bahrain financially did for Michael Jackson.

The bodyguard's made Michael seem more whimpy than anything else. I still agree with jamba's assesment of what went wrong with the bodyguard's. The power behind the throne in the hiring of the gents was Raymone Bain, as she was handling Michael's affairs. The bodyguard's gave me the impression that Michael was too immature to figure things out about his own company, because the bodyguard's had a real beef about being paid.

I'm sorry that you feel differently and felt my post was immature. I was being as candid as I could be after just arriving home from the bookstore and felt offended by the description that the bodyguard's verbiage of their description of Michael. I understand you may think that Michael was not his strongest, but I see Michael more of an internal power of strength. This is why he was able to go back out there, even though he would second guess himself. I don't perceive Michael as a coward who just ran away from his problems. Maybe the Ronald Reagan slogan would have been best served for Michael Jackson: "Trust but verify," although, eventually, he figured things out because of what happened to the bodyguard's when Michael Amir Williams came on the scene. Even Raymone Bain was being replaced, with Londell McMillan in taking better care of Michael's business affairs.

That's how Michael replaced people because it eventually came to light that things weren't going right and Michael would find different people to help him out. This is why I still believe Michael Jackson was more in charge of his life, his powerful inner strength, then he is given credit for. It was like the bodyguard's were making an excuse to justify why they did what they did, their action's and excusing Michael's behavior and this is why I perceived the bodyguard's looked at Michael in a very immature way. I believe they were somewhat star struck, hence why the book has been published and once again, they didn't keep the business relationship with Michael Jackson on that level. The bodyguard's give you the impression that they wanted their relationship with Michael's family, more of a personal situation and how much they befriended Michael by being supportive on a more personal level than that of employee - employer. The line became more and more blurred for the bodyguard's and hence why Michael is given the appearance of being "immature" without a brain to think. Michael was always business savvy and he came to this realization every time. Just going over his different lawsuits helps to draw this conclusion. Perhaps it didn't help Michael's reputation in the business world. Hence why Philip Anschutz was hesitant about working with Michael Jackson. The only time he didn't realize it, was with Conrad Murray, because Michael died under his care. That the bodyguard's tale makes Michael come across as immature is to give the impression that poor little ol' Conrad Murray did have a good bedside manner. That's what I took away from reading the book of what led up to Michael's demise. Michael just wasn't in his right mind!

 

[Tygger]

^^That is AliCat's views AFTER she read the book in a bookstore and she is entitled to that view.

Ivy, again, you are incorrect.

You can continue to allude to me as a Jackson supporter, anti-Estate, whatever you wish, as that is the usual tactic when one cannot defend their argument.

It will not change the fact that no one has to read a book to state that they do not agree with the subject matter. Let that sentence simmer for a moment……. That is why many panned Sullivan’s book without reading it. It was also one of the reasons you were so vocal against the Kickstarter initiative.

It will also not change the fact that if the true primary goal is for others to read these amazing tales of Michael Jackson and his children from his trusty ex-bodyguards, they do NOT have to purchase the book; they simply have to read it if they are so inclined and will feel the magic whether they purchase it or not.

Actually, I wonder why these authors did not simply place these tales on a blog as these tales are for the fans as they have said.

If the true primary goal is for others to simply read these tales: choose a library, enjoy free time in a local bookstore, and/or enjoy a free audiobook trial which was the encouraged method to hear Xscape through Sony Music Unlimited before its release. Many purchased Xscape after hearing it in the free trial. Maybe that will happen with this book as well. How anyone can even equate any one of these methods to theft is simply hilarious.

 

[Warszawa320]

I don't doubt that Michael Jackson had to heal emotionally from the trial in 2005. The Prince of Bahrain invited Michael to come and live in his country. The Prince and Michael were going to do several projects together. Some business things came into Michael's life the year he spent in Bahrain and Michael decided to leave. I think through Michael's inner strength, he was able to just leave. Michael did not want to put his signature, so to speak, to the project's with the Prince of Bahrain. The Prince took this as a personal insult and did not want Michael to think it was just a "gift" without any work to earn what the Prince of Bahrain financially did for Michael Jackson.

The bodyguard's made Michael seem more whimpy than anything else. I still agree with jamba's assesment of what went wrong with the bodyguard's. The power behind the throne in the hiring of the gents was Raymone Bain, as she was handling Michael's affairs. The bodyguard's gave me the impression that Michael was too immature to figure things out about his own company, because the bodyguard's had a real beef about being paid.

I'm sorry that you feel differently and felt my post was immature. I was being as candid as I could be after just arriving home from the bookstore and felt offended by the description that the bodyguard's verbiage of their description of Michael. I understand you may think that Michael was not his strongest, but I see Michael more of an internal power of strength. This is why he was able to go back out there, even though he would second guess himself. I don't perceive Michael as a coward who just ran away from his problems. Maybe the Ronald Reagan slogan would have been best served for Michael Jackson: "Trust but verify," although, eventually, he figured things out because of what happened to the bodyguard's when Michael Amir Williams came on the scene. Even Raymone Bain was being replaced, with Londell McMillan in taking better care of Michael's business affairs.

That's how Michael replaced people because it eventually came to light that things weren't going right and Michael would find different people to help him out. This is why I still believe Michael Jackson was more in charge of his life, his powerful inner strength, then he is given credit for. It was like the bodyguard's were making an excuse to justify why they did what they did, their action's and excusing Michael's behavior and this is why I perceived the bodyguard's looked at Michael in a very immature way. I believe they were somewhat star struck, hence why the book has been published and once again, they didn't keep the business relationship with Michael Jackson on that level. The bodyguard's give you the impression that they wanted their relationship with Michael's family, more of a personal situation and how much they befriended Michael by being supportive on a more personal level than that of employee - employer. The line became more and more blurred for the bodyguard's and hence why Michael is given the appearance of being "immature" without a brain to think. Michael was always business savvy and he came to this realization every time. Just going over his different lawsuits helps to draw this conclusion. Perhaps it didn't help Michael's reputation in the business world. Hence why Philip Anschutz was hesitant about working with Michael Jackson. The only time he didn't realize it, was with Conrad Murray, because Michael died under his care. That the bodyguard's tale makes Michael come across as immature is to give the impression that poor little ol' Conrad Murray did have a good bedside manner. That's what I took away from reading the book of what led up to Michael's demise. Michael just wasn't in his right mind!

I have no idea what you are talking about. For sure you are not talking about the book I have. It would be nice if you really read the book (and not only some parts) before commenting. I wish everybody would treat Michael Jackson with the level of respect the authors of this book did. They always acted extremally professional working for him even at the time when they were very frustrated about the money situation. I will repeat what I said before again: Michael's character and behavior in BG's book is presented in very credible way. Of course everybody can see the tool the allegations and the trial took on his psyche, still for most of the time it is the same Michael Jackson we fall in love in the first place. Smart, kind and charming but also unpredictable sometimes. However never boring.
The thing is that "your Michael" seems to be totally different person than the real one. Also when in one situation you see Michael's behavior as immature, the other fans have totally different perception of the event. When he stops whatever he is doing to give bodyguards their payroll envelopes,it shows how much he cares about them at that moment. And how much he appreciate their work and how happy he is that he is able to give them their checks at last. Of course he doesn't know that it's only half what he own them but it's not his fault. They don't even mention about it in front of him because they know that it's not him who is responsible for an error. His behavior is not immature at all but rather very sweet and human.