Book: Remember the Time: Protecting Michael Jackson in His Final Days / Review @pg8

[Warszawa320]

I left a comment on amazon website about tis book this is what i wrote from a comment that was helful to me.

This is why i will not buy this book out of respect for Michael and his childrens. Whatever happen in those last years of Michael lifes with the BG should have remain private and not for the world to read.

As I said before this book is more discreet than Katherine Jackson's lawsuit. I feel a lot of hypocrisy in your reason being against this book.

 

[Lisha]

Nobody is trying to bash Michael as horrible boss.

I'm confused, did someone say that?

I think like you stated in a previous post, they tried to balance it. They shared some things that frustrated them, but also shared things that showed him as both a great guy and boss. Right?

 

[AliCat]

Lisha, I truly appreciate your response and the honesty in it.

Michael always said he had rhinoceros skin and I understood why he stated such. I spoke about this with others after Michael's passing and we correctly predicted that there would be countless tales from those who knew him that would negate what Michael always said.

As a fellow human being, I know the man was wounded as it happens to many for various reasons. The difference for Michael is many saw him go through those rough times and still somehow believed he was unscathed mostly because some felt he was somehow super human or such. Regardless it was their own reasoning. Michael was not super human; he was a man with pride and I feel he is not allowed that oftentimes.

Ivy, I understand you view as well however, it is not a promised response; it is a hope, optimism. I do not remember any empathy for Michael after that tale. I remember ridicule that someone who presented himself a certain way was not all he seemed. I did not understand the need to embarrass him in that manner if the tale is indeed true.

As I said to Lisha above, Michael deserved to at least maintain his pride and he is not allowed that. A fellow human being would know he hurt; it is not necessary to have proof to give him that empathy. We all have our issues and yet we enjoy the privacy of dealing with them. There is no reason why Michael was not allowed that.

I don't know if you have read the book or not, but you are spot on in what you are saying. I went up to the local Barnes & Noble this afternoon and read through the book in a pretty short amount of time and perhaps I may reread it again (shrugging my shoulders) I just don't think it is worth the money. I do not like the book and I cannot praise it.

The way Michael is described when it came time to pay these two guy's was so immature on Michael's part. When the photo shoots take place, which we may get an eventual documentary, Michael stops in the middle of prepping, makeup, hair, etc., he is gleeful that he knew they would get paid. Michael just comes across so immature, that now I wished I had not read it. The book just portrays Michael has absolutely no control over anything. And boy is Michael demanding. It didn't matter, day or night, go get Michael this and go get Michael that. I think the bodyguard's are more errand boy's than actual bodyguard's.

They did not like Michael Amir Williams nor Raymone Bain either. Although I think they liked working better for Raymone than Michael. I did not know Michael Amir Williams attended USC film school No wonder Michael liked him. Keep up what you are saying Tygger!

 

[Petrarose]

Amazon just named "Michael Jackson, Inc" the Best Book Of The Month in the Business & Leadership category!
http://www.amazon.com

I think it is significant that this is the book that gets book of the month, among all the 3 recent books about Michael--bodyguards, Ron, and Zack. Look at the topic Zack dealt with. Does this mean that people are beginning to look for the serious/professional side of Michael after all? I think it is interesting that so many fans like the private personal details about Michael, but it is Michael the businessman/innovator type of book that gets recognized. I think we should certainly continue to support such books even though someone said there are errors. However, there were errors in Bush & Vogel's books as well and I enjoyed them both. I wonder if the estate will put Zack's book in the One shop? They have Vogel's there.

 

[Petrarose]

You can laugh about his financial situation as much as you want. It doesn't change the fact that what they wrote about is true. We know that from especially Katherine Jackson's lawsuit against AEG and some other lawsuits court documentation. It look very clearly that they made a research for the book on some issues. They write mostly about their experience with MJ during this time but they also use publicly known facts. Still the book is a lot more discreet about Michael life than Katherine Jackson's lawsuit.
Also if you read the book you would know why they have to write this book. They definitely went through the difficult situation and they had to vent. They were often extremely frustrated with him, still they always were looking for an excuses for his actions. They for sure were bigger fans than you (who doesn't want to know the real person and his struggles) and some others. I'm a big fan too and I spent a lot of money for my fandom, still I admire them for their loyalty and sticking to him in this financially difficult time without payment for their services. They were hungry, they paid for some business staff with they own money and used their credit cards to max, etc.
They washed their suits in the bathroom and dried it with hair dryer because they could not effort the dry cleaner. And they stayed honest even when they saw how much private cash Michael had. They never asked him to borrow any money because they knew how he felt about those money. And he did not offer ever to lend them some money but he spent so much for stupid things. They were on call 24/7 and it would be hard for anybody to be woken up in the middle of the night for little things. They could quit, get a lot easier job and sue him for the payment. They didn't do it. They were his fans and they loved his children. They knew he needed them.

^^Gee what you write here sounds like this Michael Jackson is a very horrible, selfish, foolish, unkind man. No wonder you have so much empathy for the body guards, and someone wants to kick Michael in his pants. Let's hope what you posted here is not the gist of the whole book, because I don't think it is good advertisement you writing that if you want people who like Michael to buy this book. I mean who wants to read that the person they like is such a shallow selfish person?

 

[Ashtanga]

You can laugh about his financial situation as much as you want. It doesn't change the fact that what they wrote about is true. We know that from especially Katherine Jackson's lawsuit against AEG and some other lawsuits court documentation. It look very clearly that they made a research for the book on some issues. They write mostly about their experience with MJ during this time but they also use publicly known facts. Still the book is a lot more discreet about Michael life than Katherine Jackson's lawsuit.
Also if you read the book you would know why they have to write this book. They definitely went through the difficult situation and they had to vent. They were often extremely frustrated with him, still they always were looking for an excuses for his actions. They for sure were bigger fans than you (who doesn't want to know the real person and his struggles) and some others. I'm a big fan too and I spent a lot of money for my fandom, still I admire them for their loyalty and sticking to him in this financially difficult time without payment for their services. They were hungry, they paid for some business staff with they own money and used their credit cards to max, etc.
They washed their suits in the bathroom and dried it with hair dryer because they could not effort the dry cleaner. And they stayed honest even when they saw how much private cash Michael had. They never asked him to borrow any money because they knew how he felt about those money. And he did not offer ever to lend them some money but he spent so much for stupid things. They were on call 24/7 and it would be hard for anybody to be woken up in the middle of the night for little things. They could quit, get a lot easier job and sue him for the payment. They didn't do it. They were his fans and they loved his children. They knew he needed them.

I think we should canonize these bodyguards..... :smilerolleyes: *sarcasm*

first of all it's not a "blind" belief and I also think that you cannot blame bodyguards for Michael's financial situation becoming public because we knew it long before they wrote a book.

- Starting from mid 2000's Michael's debts have been mentioned in multiple mediums : 2005 trial, Friedman articles and multiple lawsuits filed against Michael.
- With Michael's death, his assets and debts became public record through probate of his Estate
- AEG trial covered Michael's financial extensively.

Don't get me wrong, all of this debt talk is annoying to me as much as it annoys you but we cannot change reality and how that information because public knowledge.

Honestly why we (fans) have to discuss these questions and try to understand? What this will change in our lives or for Michael? No one has the right to be discussing (or gossip?) the financial life of Michael why is not nobody's business to know what happened or did not happen or simply try to draw a timeline to try to understand the financial situation of Michael. The documents became public? People close to Michael still talking about it and giving ammunition to the fans and the press continue talking about it and beat Michael? F**** all that shit. -_- Leave quiet, ignore, leave Michael alone and move on with life. And looking at this voracious discussion of the financial situation of Michael comes to mind the image of a flock of vultures fiercely devouring carrion. :fear: Crazy and insane. :bugeyed And I also can not stand to see people trying to understand/ discuss/dissect and digging private facts of life Michael ...... The focus should be another. The art of Michael is that it should be discussed/dissected fiercely.

But OK.... I know that the scenario will never be different. :nono:

Then move on with life and just keep watching with sadness the spectacle of entertainment that has become Michael's life. uke: *big sigh*

 

[ivy]

Honestly why we (fans) have to discuss these questions and try to understand? What this will change in our lives or for Michael? No one has the right to be discussing (or gossip?) the financial life of Michael why is not nobody's business to know what happened or did not happen or simply try to draw a timeline to try to understand the financial situation of Michael. The documents became public? People close to Michael still talking about it and giving ammunition to the fans and the press continue talking about it and beat Michael? F**** all that shit. -_- Leave quiet, ignore, leave Michael alone and move on with life. And looking at this voracious discussion of the financial situation of Michael comes to mind the image of a flock of vultures fiercely devouring carrion. :fear: Crazy and insane. : bugeyed And I also can not stand to see people trying to understand/ discuss/dissect and digging private facts of life Michael ...... The focus should be another. The art of Michael is that it should be discussed/dissected fiercely. But OK.... I know that the scenario will never be different. Then move on with life and just keep watching with sadness the spectacle of entertainment that has become Michael's life. *big sigh*

Well the answer to this is short and simple. We are on a Michael Jackson forum with tens of thousands of threads and millions of posts. Everything about Michael is being discussed here. We don't "have to" discuss any of those but we do. Everyone is going to choose what they are comfortable discussing. To you discussion of financial aspects might be disturbing, to me it could be the gold pants.. Also while Michael's death and the following lawsuits and books and so on might have caused some stuff become public knowledge, let's not act like all we discussed before Michael's death was limited to his art. It wasn't.

 

[Petrarose]

This book: What to do!! What to do!! Never have I been so confused by a decision. I guess my indecision is based on the fact that most of you are focusing on the dreary aspects of the book, sort of like the media usually do. Is there anything in this book that redeems Michael? What do you think the general public will get out of this book? Apart from small mentions about how he was a good father, it seems the sadness of the book is its most long-lasting impression. I am only saying this because I see a lot of people mentioning that aspect.

 

[Ashtanga]

Well the answer to this is short and simple. We are on a Michael Jackson forum with tens of thousands of threads and millions of posts. Everything about Michael is being discussed here. We don't "have to" discuss any of those but we do. Everyone is going to choose what they are comfortable discussing. To you discussion of financial aspects might be disturbing, to me it could be the gold pants.. Also while Michael's death and the following lawsuits and books and so on might have caused some stuff become public knowledge, let's not act like all we discussed before Michael's death was limited to his art. It wasn't.

And you think I do not know that? You need not take the trouble to remember. Just ignore my post or simply delete it. I just shared my thoughts as everyone does here. The problem is when someone comes here and does not agree (or critical).... start 3rd World War. Each does what you want and move on with life. And I need to learn to keep my damn mouth closed and stay just watching silently.

 

[ivy]

This book: What to do!! What to do!! Never have I been so confused by a decision. I guess my indecision is based on the fact that most of you are focusing on the dreary aspects of the book, sort of like the media usually do. Is there anything in this book that redeems Michael? What do you think the general public will get out of this book? Apart from small mentions about how he was a good father, it seems the sadness of the book is its most long-lasting impression. I am only saying this because I see a lot of people mentioning that aspect.

Petra - it's not small mentions. I would say the first half of the book is about nice stories about Michael as a person and a father and only the second half includes bodyguards frustration about financial issues- and no they don't blame Michael for it. Everyone I saw has loved the book and/or believed regardless of some downsides it was worth the buy.

The problem is when someone comes here and does not agree (or critical).... start 3rd World War.

ah Ash do we really need to create drama? you posted something and some people replied back. It's a discussion. I haven't seen anything that could be called a "3rd world war".

 

[GreenEyes]

For those who hate this book and think it's too much of an intrusion... look at it this way. In the future generations to come who want to learn about Michael, they will seek out books written. They will probably be interested in learning about his life after the trial.

Well, there's this:

And Ian Halperin can become the historian who talks about his life as a man who went out as a woman to roach-infested motels to hook up with a burly Asian dude for rendezvous.

Or we can embrace what his close bodyguards witnessed and lived through every day. And believe me, those bodyguards are way more accurate than that clown Halperin to write Michael's history.

Yes, they do talk about some hard times that Michael faced in his final years, but we already knew that. The truth is better than the lies that will surely continue to come from people who didn't know him or want to trash him. These bodyguards are not trying to trash him. (That's how I took it anyway.) They tell some good stories in this book too, and you will understand Michael better.

At least it made me feel like that. But, that's me. Everybody has to make up their own minds, I guess. But I'm bothered by the people who are trashing it and haven't even read it. And some people are exaggerating certain things too, when a snippet shows up on the internet that's taken out of context.

:worried:

 

[jamba]

Just my personal opinion here. I do plan at some point to read the BG's book but I will wait for more reviews and maybe get a used copy eventually. From what I read in the court docs and from their interviews, IMO these men were not well-trained as bodyguards and MJ's security team was basically cobbled together by Raymone when he decided to return to USA and was not that professional. The security company itself had only been formed a few months prior to MJ appearing on the scene. They let Randy in via crashing the gates--IMO a well-trained and prepared BG would not have let that happen or would have handled it better once he was inside the gates.

There were a few instances reported in the interviews where they did not do what MJ asked. For instance, he said to tell Joe he needed to make an appt, but the BG changed the message to--come back tomorrow and I will try to get you in (or words to that effect). When the family showed up at the gates at 1 am they did not handle it well either. They told MJ and he then ended up meeting the brothers in the trailer. IMO they should not have contacted MJ at that hour but told the family to make an appt. They said something to the effect that this was not part of their job--to get involved with family issues, but they were expected to screen people wanting to see MJ by asking them to make an appt. Also MJ told them to 'get rid' of Randy--but they did not and Randy sat there for 2 hours and MJ had to cancel his much anticipated plan to go to Elizabeth Taylor's birthday party--and I feel sure he very much would have enjoyed seeing her and being at the party.

Re the party, why did MJ not just go anyway and leave Randy in the driveway? Was he afraid of Randy or was he disappointed that the BG's didn't do their job when he told them to 'get rid' of Randy?

Basically, I think Raymone dropped the ball by hiring this group of BG and also renting that house, which was a disaster in terms of security in the first place according to what Karen Moriarty's book said (she also worked with the BG's for a while and her beginning chapters have a lot of info). She was also extremely sloppy as manager in not seeing that the BG's were paid. The security of MJ and his family depended on them.The house was exhorbitantly expensive in terms of rent too--I think it sold for less than the few months rent MJ paid while he was there!

I don't mean to be too hard on BGs but I think they were in out of their depth (though no fault of their own).

 

[Lisha]

... Michael stops in the middle of prepping, makeup, hair, etc., he is gleeful that he knew they would get paid. Michael just comes across so immature, that now I wished I had not read it.

I think more the point that was being made was even though MJ was focused on doing this important photo shoot, he still was genuinely pleased to learn the guys would now be paid, and took the time to show that he was. I'm not sure that was being immature.

They did not like Michael Amir Williams nor Raymone Bain either. Although I think they liked working better for Raymone than Michael.

They definitely did not prefer working for Raymone over Michael. They really liked Michael.

I'm not sure they ever said they straight out disliked Raymone or Michael Amir Williams, although with Raymone, they became quite unhappy with her not returning their calls and not paying them. She might have had good reasons; we do not know her side. To me it seems like a whole lot of poorly handled communication, not just between the bodyguards and others or MJ with the bodyguards, but between Raymone and the assistant, Feldman(interesting last name...)and Grace and Feldman, and back and forth....not healthy attitudes or communication going on much of the time, and it could be felt in the working environment. How much Michael was aware of this I don't know but because he was a creative genious, I believe his stance was "I hired you people to take care of..." and perhaps removed himself a little too much. We don't have his side either. That's the difficulty with these things...

The guys were fine with Raymone initially and fine with MAW initially, too...(they had no clashes with him that they mention), until I think after Bill drove all the way out from Vegas on short notice to deliver something Michael requested, and MAW, when Bill arrived after all that driving, just took it and said, "Thank you, that's all we need," and Bill I think felt "dismissed" and had to turn around and drive straight back. Maybe not any more should have been expected by him, but it was such a change from the way things were previously and before MAW came on the scene. It would appear MAW became MJ's new preference. I don't get the impression MAW was rude or directly uncool...just things had changed. Bill had to find his "new lane." I don't think that would have been easy for anyone, to be fair.

I think all MJ's bodyguards in general throughout the years were often used as errand boys because Michael couldn't just go out and do things himself. He even laments about that to the guys in the book; he wished he could go out and do his own errands especially for his own children.

Wouldn't it seem fair to suggest, by the way, that if someone doesn't want to read the book, that's fine and no one should put them down for it.

Contrarily, if someone has chosen to read the book, no one should put them down for it or place themselves "above" those people for themselves having chosen not to read it.

 

[AliCat]

@Lisha...I'm glad you enjoyed the book and feel free to tell your point of view. Although when Michael Amir Williams came on the scene, is when the bodyguards begin to have a more diminished role in Michael Jackson's life. Michael Jackson did not realize this and as jamba pointed out about the situation, of the bodyguard's role in Michael Jackson's life, she filled in why these bodyguard's didn't do so well.

 

[Lisha]

Aw, AliCat, thanks for the nice opening sentence. My point of view is neither right nor wrong, it's just my take on things at the moment...it could easily change. lol.

Yes, jamba wrote a good post.

 

[GreenEyes]

^^Gee what you write here sounds like this Michael Jackson is a very horrible, selfish, foolish, unkind man. No wonder you have so much empathy for the body guards, and someone wants to kick Michael in his pants. Let's hope what you posted here is not the gist of the whole book, because I don't think it is good advertisement you writing that if you want people who like Michael to buy this book. I mean who wants to read that the person they like is such a shallow selfish person?

I didn't get the impression that Michael was shallow. But I did get the impression that he was a bit broken down and mentally fragile after the trial and had a hard time dealing with life's issues. And his issues/problems were a hundred times bigger than the type of issues/problems that us average people have to endure. Michael also had some very bad handlers in charge that led him down a perilous path. He just didn't have the strength to gain control of everything. He just wanted to be with his kids and try to lead a normal life.

 

[MoeJack]

@Jamba I see what you're saying but we must also understand that things aren't always that black and white. Even if Michael had told the bodyguards to do something like dismiss their father or Randy, etc. It's not that easy. This still have to show some respect. He is his father after all. I feel like anybody in their position has to deal with these kinds of sensitive situations, even if it wasn't MJ..

 

[GreenEyes]

@Jamba I see what you're saying but we must also understand that things aren't always that black and white. Even if Michael had told the bodyguards to do something like dismiss their father or Randy, etc. It's not that easy. This still have to show some respect. He is his father after all. I feel like anybody in their position has to deal with these kinds of sensitive situations, even if it wasn't MJ..

And that's exactly the dilemma the felt themselves in, according to their words in the book. They couldn't bring themselves to just throw them off the property and tell them to call later to make an appointment. (Even though that's what Randy deserved. ). They felt a loyalty to Michael, but I think sudden event that was thrust upon them, they just didn't know the right way to handle it to keep everyone calm.

We have to remember that Randy was threatening to call the media and expose to them what just happened (the bodyguards were ready to shoot Randy.) That was Randy's leverage and I think it forced the bodyguards to just say whatever to try to keep the situation calm.

I don't know what I would have done in a situation like that. Yikes.

And Randy got in because of the crappy slow security gate at that house. One of them was coming back from getting gas in the vehicle before they had to leave for the party and Randy came out of nowhere as the gate was closing and crashed it. (That's what they say in the book anyway.)

 

[Petrarose]

Petra - it's not small mentions. I would say the first half of the book is about nice stories about Michael as a person and a father and only the second half includes bodyguards frustration about financial issues- and no they don't blame Michael for it. Everyone I saw has loved the book and/or believed regardless of some downsides it was worth the buy.

Oh I see, it is that you see some very strong posts about Michael that made me wonder.

GreenEyes the people who don't like the book, know all about the alternatives. I remember even I brought up that point after Ivy gave her summary. However, in spite of that, they still dislike what the BG focused on in the book. I think it has something to do with what one sees as a boundary, i.e., maybe they feel the BG have crossed the line, moral/ethical issues, personal preferences and when you are dealing with these types of issues, giving alternatives is not going to move them.

Take Ash for example, she just thinks talking and dissecting a dead mans finances/love life/personal business is distasteful. Telling her about the alternatives is not going to change her mind because you are dealing with her ideals/beliefs which govern her sense of right and wrong. It is like someone saying don't kill that man. Then, you say if I don't kill him he will harm all these other people. The person replies, no don't kill him because it is not right to kill any human. In that scenario giving the alternative is not going to work because the person's beliefs says "no killing of humans, period."

I myself have gone back and forth with this book, mainly because it is not something I will read myself, so I want to know if I buy this book for others to support the BG, if I will be contributing to a system that sees Michael as this sad doomsday character who was hardly happy, or a man like the poster Wars described. First I was not going to buy. Then Ivy gave a summary, and I said I will buy. Then we started to get more comments from people who read it and I wavered again. Anyway, since we have another book to support, like Zack's, your alternatives do not have to be the only reality. If a lot of people buy Zack's book maybe more people will write less foolish accounts about Michael like the Halperin you quoted. The funny thing is that the more fans who read the book give excerpts to show why the book has value, is the more I find myself not wanting to buy the book.

 

[GreenEyes]

Oh I see, it is that you see some very strong posts about Michael that made me wonder.

GreenEyes the people who don't like the book, know all about the alternatives. I remember even I brought up that point after Ivy gave her summary. However, in spite of that, they still dislike what the BG focused on in the book. I think it has something to do with what one sees as a boundary, i.e., maybe they feel the BG have crossed the line, moral/ethical issues, personal preferences and when you are dealing with these types of issues, giving alternatives is not going to move them.

Take Ash for example, she just thinks talking and dissecting a dead mans finances/love life/personal business is distasteful. Telling her about the alternatives is not going to change her mind because you are dealing with her ideals/beliefs which govern her sense of right and wrong. It is like someone saying don't kill that man. Then, you say if I don't kill him he will harm all these other people. The person replies, no don't kill him because it is not right to kill any human. In that scenario giving the alternative is not going to work because the person's beliefs says "no killing of humans, period."

I myself have gone back and forth with this book, mainly because it is not something I will read myself, so I want to know if I buy this book for others to support the BG, if I will be contributing to a system that sees Michael as this sad doomsday character who was hardly happy, or a man like the poster Wars described. First I was not going to buy. Then Ivy gave a summary, and I said I will buy. Then we started to get more comments from people who read it and I wavered again. Anyway, since we have another book to support, like Zack's, your alternatives do not have to be the only reality. If a lot of people buy Zack's book maybe more people will write less foolish accounts about Michael like the Halperin you quoted. The funny thing is that the more fans who read the book give excerpts to show why the book has value, is the more I find myself not wanting to buy the book.

You've made some good points.

It's a very personal decision for anyone to make to get this book. There really is no right or wrong decision.

I will refrain from posting anymore about it so as to not try to sway anyone one way or the other.

I respect anyone's decision on what they decide and I know it's all a matter of preference and what they know in their heart.:yes:

 

[Warszawa320]

I didn't get the impression that Michael was shallow. But I did get the impression that he was a bit broken down and mentally fragile after the trial and had a hard time dealing with life's issues. And his issues/problems were a hundred times bigger than the type of issues/problems that us average people have to endure. Michael also had some very bad handlers in charge that led him down a perilous path. He just didn't have the strength to gain control of everything. He just wanted to be with his kids and try to lead a normal life.

This is exactly like I feel too. Thank you.

 

[Lisha]

(nice post, GreenEyes. )

The book is not all gloom, and it is a really smooth read. I sat down and began to read it at 9:00 at night the first night it was available, and read till 1:00 because I was very engaged and didn't want to stop to go to bed. The next day I began again and didn't put it down until I finished. I don't do that with that many books.

 

[Warszawa320]

I don't know if you have read the book or not, but you are spot on in what you are saying. I went up to the local Barnes & Noble this afternoon and read through the book in a pretty short amount of time and perhaps I may reread it again (shrugging my shoulders) I just don't think it is worth the money. I do not like the book and I cannot praise it.

The way Michael is described when it came time to pay these two guy's was so immature on Michael's part. When the photo shoots take place, which we may get an eventual documentary, Michael stops in the middle of prepping, makeup, hair, etc., he is gleeful that he knew they would get paid. Michael just comes across so immature, that now I wished I had not read it. The book just portrays Michael has absolutely no control over anything. And boy is Michael demanding. It didn't matter, day or night, go get Michael this and go get Michael that. I think the bodyguard's are more errand boy's than actual bodyguard's.

They did not like Michael Amir Williams nor Raymone Bain either. Although I think they liked working better for Raymone than Michael. I did not know Michael Amir Williams attended USC film school No wonder Michael liked him. Keep up what you are saying Tygger!

Personally I thing your assessment is very immature. Except few things (but not those you listed above) Michael in bodyguards book is exactly Michael most long times fans always knew and loved.

 

[Warszawa320]

I think it is significant that this is the book that gets book of the month, among all the 3 recent books about Michael--bodyguards, Ron, and Zack. Look at the topic Zack dealt with. Does this mean that people are beginning to look for the serious/professional side of Michael after all? I think it is interesting that so many fans like the private personal details about Michael, but it is Michael the businessman/innovator type of book that gets recognized. I think we should certainly continue to support such books even though someone said there are errors. However, there were errors in Bush & Vogel's books as well and I enjoyed them both. I wonder if the estate will put Zack's book in the One shop? They have Vogel's there.

It's in The business and Leadership category. I don't thing there is a big competition in this category. I can be wrong about it, I'm not sure. I love the title of the book and the cover but I don't like what's inside very much. But anyway in my local Barnes & Noble the book wasn't displayed in the New Releases section but only on the second floor in Music section. So I replaced all the copies to New Releases and put them next to Bodyguards books on my own. And I complained to the manager about it. By the way on the first day it was only one copy of bodyguards book left in this store.

 

[Ashtanga]

ah Ash do we really need to create drama? you posted something and some people replied back. It's a discussion. I haven't seen anything that could be called a "3rd world war".

Wow! Drama? :nono: 3rd World War was just a way to say and to illustrate the fierce discussion and heated here. :bugeyed Just that. -_- People will beat me because of this baloney? :busted: I hope not! :fear: But sorry for this..... :blink: *leaving this thread*

 

[ivy]

Re the party, why did MJ not just go anyway and leave Randy in the driveway? Was he afraid of Randy or was he disappointed that the BG's didn't do their job when he told them to 'get rid' of Randy?

they explain it as Michael thought Randy would follow him to Elizabeth's party and make a scene there and Elizabeth didn't deserve it.

Wow! Drama? :nono: 3rd World War was just a way to say and to illustrate the fierce discussion and heated here. :bugeyed Just that. -_- People will beat me because of this baloney? :busted: I hope not! :fear: But sorry for this..... :blink: *leaving this thread*

My point was none of the replies to you was fierce or heated and no one is "beating" you. and yes acting like people are mistreating you is a kind of an exaggeration and/or drama.

^^Gee what you write here sounds like this Michael Jackson is a very horrible, selfish, foolish, unkind man.

I didn't get the impression that Michael was shallow.

I didn't think Michael was shallow either. Payroll of his employees isn't Michael's job. That needed to be taken care of by Raymone Bain and/or who was the business manager. Think about your own jobs? Who pays you? Human Resources? Payroll? Probably your boss has no idea if you are being paid or not.

Unfortunately Michael didn't have proper managers or business people around him during that time. He thought Raymone Bain was running an office to handle his business while she was working from her home. I mean look Michael's taxes weren't paid for 3 years. Sorry to say but Michael didn't have a good team in place, the team he had was incompetent.

Yes the bodyguards were frustrated with not being paid for the job they do - who wouldn't be? But they don't necessarily blame Michael for it. and why would they? They experienced and heard Michael not knowing how much money he has and/or how he didn't know Raymone's home office and so on.

But I did get the impression that he was a bit broken down and mentally fragile after the trial and had a hard time dealing with life's issues.

also to build on this, Michael would only be "horrible, selfish, foolish, unkind man" if he knew and he didn't care. My impression was that he didn't know and/or what greeneyes said in above quote.

As I said above, I wouldn't expect a boss to know if the payroll is being paid or not, he should have people for that. and given how he didn't know about Raymone's home office, given that even bodyguards heard Michael say that he didn't know about his money / accounts etc shows that he didn't know many of the stuff. I blame the incompetent team he had.And so does the bodyguards, you should read what they write about Bain.

Then we started to get more comments from people who read it and I wavered again.

if you are paying attention majority of the negative comments are coming from people who haven't read the book and who are against such books. The people who have read the book have mentioned some negative aspects but they all also mention it was worth the buy and how they liked some other stories and how they couldn't put it down.

and why not buy the book, read it and make up your own mind about it? You don't need to buy multiple copies to gift, you can buy a single copy and read it and even return it if you don't like it.

 

[Ashtanga]

and yes acting like people are mistreating you is a kind of an exaggeration and/or drama.

:bugeyed




Ok... you win. :doh: I'll apologize for being soooooooooooooooooooooooooo dramatic and exaggerated and we stay OK about all this! :sigh: *big sigh*



*leaving this thread*

 

[Warszawa320]

I think we should canonize these bodyguards..... :smilerolleyes: *sarcasm*









Honestly why we (fans) have to discuss these questions and try to understand? What this will change in our lives or for Michael? No one has the right to be discussing (or gossip?) the financial life of Michael why is not nobody's business to know what happened or did not happen or simply try to draw a timeline to try to understand the financial situation of Michael. The documents became public? People close to Michael still talking about it and giving ammunition to the fans and the press continue talking about it and beat Michael? F**** all that shit. -_- Leave quiet, ignore, leave Michael alone and move on with life. And looking at this voracious discussion of the financial situation of Michael comes to mind the image of a flock of vultures fiercely devouring carrion. :fear: Crazy and insane. :bugeyed And I also can not stand to see people trying to understand/ discuss/dissect and digging private facts of life Michael ...... The focus should be another. The art of Michael is that it should be discussed/dissected fiercely.

But OK.... I know that the scenario will never be different. :nono:

Then move on with life and just keep watching with sadness the spectacle of entertainment that has become Michael's life. uke: *big sigh*

I really don't understand your post? Nobody is forcing anybody to discuss issues the person is not interested in. I personally love to know everything about my favorite composers like Chopin, Mozart, Beethoven and some others because except their art I'm also fascinated with them from psychological point of view. I feel exactly the same about Michael Jackson. And I'm sure many other people have the same opinion on the subject. Do you really think that your complains may change people approach to the subject of Michael Jackson? And what about every other historical figure?

 

[Tygger]

Jamba, I agree with your post. Michael always demanded the best and in the latter portion of his life he did not. His supporting team was mediocre and that team included these authors.

These tales have no beginning and no ending, only middles. Michael was a grown man and if he wanted to continue to the party, he would have. Virre stated previously that Michael may have had a legal situation that was dealt with that day as well. It is anyone’s guess what Michael was lamenting the three days afterward and fortunately he has been able to keep those thoughts private.

@Lisha...I'm glad you enjoyed the book and feel free to tell your point of view. Although when Michael Amir Williams came on the scene, is when the bodyguards begin to have a more diminished role in Michael Jackson's life. Michael Jackson did not realize this and as jamba pointed out about the situation, of the bodyguard's role in Michael Jackson's life, she filled in why these bodyguard's didn't do so well.

Not surprising. I have lost count with the number of people who came into Michael’s life and attempted to ingratiate themselves to him to somehow gain his favor. So many vultures dressed as want-to-be saviors competing to be Michael’s most special confidante. Eventually they realize they are replaceable. By that time, a competition has already ensued and horrible things were said and done in their desperation to keep close (in their mind) to Michael. Insane.

I am unsure that they were going to London and were still in Vegas. AEG hired everyone for TII and I do not remember these authors on the AEG payroll.

This from their other Q/A

Q: Is it possible for you all to give us insight into how Michael was being treated by the people at AEG whom he worked with? It is known that Randy Phillips physically hit MJ and yelled at him. Were any of you there to witness this? Also, were you all under obligation to AEG or to Michael when the company was paying for his expenses during the This is it tour, including the cost for security?

Bill & Javon: We did not work for AEG and were not in Los Angeles during the rehearsals for “This Is It,” nor were we stationed at the Carolwood mansion. We were Mr. Jackson’s personal security team, not the “This Is It” security team. We handled his affairs at his home in Las Vegas, and when he died we were making preparations to run security for the estate he rented outside London. But we were never directly involved with AEG. For reasons that you will see in the book, we kept our distance from that production because we never had a good feeling about it. But we can’t tell you anything about AEG other than what has already been revealed in the civil trial against them.

if you are paying attention majority of the negative comments are coming from people who haven't read the book and who are against such books. The people who have read the book have mentioned some negative aspects but they all also mention it was worth the buy and how they liked some other stories and how they couldn't put it down.

and why not buy the book, read it and make up your own mind about it? You don't need to buy multiple copies to gift, you can buy a single copy and read it and even return it if you don't like it.

Incorrect. AliCat stated she read it and did not appreciate it. Others have discussed sections they read and those sections were not exactly complimentary to Michael which spurred conversation. Not everyone who purchases the book will enjoy it as it happens with any book. It is also is not necessary to purchase the book to read it.

Why is it necessary that anyone support these authors financially? Michael’s estate does not benefit from this book.

 

[Soundmind]

Jamba, I agree with your post. Michael always demanded the best and in the latter portion of his life he did not. His supporting team was mediocre and that team included these authors.

These tales have no beginning and no ending, only middles. Michael was a grown man and if he wanted to continue to the party, he would have. Virre stated previously that Michael may have had a legal situation that was dealt with that day as well. It is anyone’s guess what Michael was lamenting the three days afterward and fortunately he has been able to keep those thoughts private.



Not surprising. I have lost count with the number of people who came into Michael’s life and attempted to ingratiate themselves to him to somehow gain his favor. So many vultures dressed as want-to-be saviors competing to be Michael’s most special confidante. Eventually they realize they are replaceable. By that time, a competition has already ensued and horrible things were said and done in their desperation to keep close (in their mind) to Michael. Insane.

I am unsure that they were going to London and were still in Vegas. AEG hired everyone for TII and I do not remember these authors on the AEG payroll.



Incorrect. AliCat stated she read it and did not appreciate it. Others have discussed sections they read and those sections were not exactly complimentary to Michael. Not everyone who purchases the book will enjoy it as it happens with any book. It is also is not necessary to purchase the book to read it.

Why is it necessary that anyone support these authors financially? Michael’s estate does not benefit from this book.

MJ knew Randy Jackson was not only a criminal thief but stupid and foolish enough to follow him to Elizabeth Taylor's party and ruin it for her. He did tell them that.

The desperation to downplay what that useless, jobless family of blood suckers and leaches did to MJ is no longer effective. Try something new please.

He not only did not want to see Randy but none of his sisters. It explains a lot of their behavior after his death.