Chris Rock Special - NPR Review critiques MJ joke

[analogue]

That Will Smith slap has given Chris Rock more fame and attention than he's ever dreamed of, and he's loving every second of it.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

I haven't watched the footage of the performance, but from what I've read finding the joke funny really just boils down to whether or not you think MJ is guilty. It seems more of what could be considered a funny/strange observation really.

It is flawed at its conception though as the comparison is not valid.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

And then the americans are weird and can't handle to see a nipple?? Weird.

Americans might be weird about that, but we also don't blow a kiddy slap out of proportion. Jeremy Clarkson in the UK did worse to his staff, and he got right back in the saddle with a new show, didn't he. Never ever gets talked about.

Oh but Will Smith, he's so awful and bad. Truly irredeemable.

Tbh his yelling curse words stung much more.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Americans might be weird about that, but we also don't blow a kiddy slap out of proportion. Jeremy Clarkson in the UK did worse to his staff, and he got right back in the saddle with a new show, didn't he. Never ever gets talked about.

Oh but Will Smith, he's so awful and bad. Truly irredeemable.

Tbh his yelling curse words stung much more.

The reaction to it and his ban was way overblown if I'm honest. Not saying Will was right (he wasn't), but there's much worse people who still attend ceremonies like that and are celebrated pretty regularly that they are happy not to talk about!

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

The reaction to it and his ban was way overblown if I'm honest. Not saying Will was right (he wasn't), but there's much worse people who still attend ceremonies like that and are celebrated pretty regularly that they are happy not to talk about!

Anytime they can make somebody the scapegoat in Hollywood, they do. That is all they continue telling us. And I'm not saying it's based on skin tone, but hey, 9 times out of 10...

 

[analogue]

I know we're getting off topic here but at the time the slap happened it looked as though Will Smith was going through some mental struggles and needed help. I'm no mental health expert, but something seemed off with him during that time. But a new DJ Jazzy Jeff and The Fresh Prince album would be awesome. Will needs to get away from hollywood and go back to his roots

 

[Nite Line]

Will Smith is a loser who is okay with his wife sleeping with other men. He should be more offended about his wife cheating on him than Rock making a harmless joke about her.

 

[DangerousGal91]

Americans might be weird about that, but we also don't blow a kiddy slap out of proportion. Jeremy Clarkson in the UK did worse to his staff, and he got right back in the saddle with a new show, didn't he. Never ever gets talked about.

Oh but Will Smith, he's so awful and bad. Truly irredeemable.

Tbh his yelling curse words stung much more.

While I think Will Smith's reaction was excessive, I don't think he's irredeemable. He regretted doing it as soon as it was over, essentially. Still, that doesn't make it right. Forgiveness is different from saying he did the right thing.

My points about Chris Rock still stand, too.

 

[DuranDuran]

Violence is never ok, no matter when or where.

A lot of of entertainment has violence, even Michael Jackson's like the Smooth Criminal video. People watch boxing & MMA, video games are violent. A lot of songs have violent topics, and not just gangsta rap either such as Bad Bad Leroy Brown by Jim Croce or Maxwell's Silver Hammer/Rocky Racoon by The Beatles. Shakespeare & even the bible has violence and they are centuries old. Today superhero movies & cop TV shows are popular and westerns were decades ago and they are generally violent. So are cartoons like Bugs Bunny or Tom & Jerry. You must not watch or listen to much.

 

[Hess]

A lot of of entertainment has violence, even Michael Jackson's like the Smooth Criminal video. People watch boxing & MMA, video games are violent. A lot of songs have violent topics, and not just gangsta rap either such as Bad Bad Leroy Brown by Jim Croce or Maxwell's Silver Hammer/Rocky Racoon by The Beatles. Shakespeare & even the bible has violence and they are centuries old. Today superhero movies & cop TV shows are popular and westerns were decades ago and they are generally violent. So are cartoons like Bugs Bunny or Tom & Jerry. You must not watch or listen to much.

For me that is a totally different thing.

Fiction is fiction - when I go to the movies and watch Taken - I know people are gonne get hurt - I expect it to happen or I would bve disappointed.
When I pay to go see boxing both parties have agreed what's gonna happen and are OK with that. - It's a setup a sport.

Violence when slapping someone who is not part of it - he is getting attacked out of the blue. - I can not see how this can even be compared.

I have absolutely nothing against Will Smith - only his actions at the Oscars.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Will Smith is a loser who is okay with his wife sleeping with other men. He should be more offended about his wife cheating on him than Rock making a harmless joke about her.

I've never been more hurt by you.

 

[DangerousGal91]

For me that is a totally different thing.

Fiction is fiction - when I go to the movies and watch Taken - I know people are gonne get hurt - I expect it to happen or I would bve disappointed.
When I pay to go see boxing both parties have agreed what's gonna happen and are OK with that. - It's a setup a sport.

Violence when slapping someone who is not part of it - he is getting attacked out of the blue. - I can not see how this can even be compared.

I have absolutely nothing against Will Smith - only his actions at the Oscars.

There's also the factor of self-defense. Sometimes, someone has to act violent because they were being attacked. That's what martial arts is also based around.

Fiction is often a mirror of real life; we can abhor violence while also acknowledging that it happens. Shying away from it would have averse effects. And I'd much rather see someone shoot up a random character in a video game than do it in real life, for example.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

While I think Will Smith's reaction was excessive, I don't think he's irredeemable. He regretted doing it as soon as it was over, essentially. Still, that doesn't make it right. Forgiveness is different from saying he did the right thing.

My points about Chris Rock still stand, too.

I was being sarcastic. Of course he's not irredeemable. It's not a non-issue at all, by any means. But he was made a scapegoat, IMHO.

 

[summer]

This show will get watched by millions again so this is not very good news for MJ unfortunately.
I’m still bewildered how much influence LN had on people’s conscience while the 2005 acquittal is completely forgotten. I have heard things like this so many times since 2019, there are no question marks any longer about the case. At least in the past there would be doubts about those claims. There would be debate, that debate is gone, people just chose to ignore it and still listen to his music

Chris Rock is right though, people are being selective. It is not the first time I hear it in tv or in real life how people unashamedly dance to MJ while they also state with a smile on their face that he he is pedophile.
This doesn’t even mean Chris Rock actually believes Robson and co, he just puts it out as an example.

How can you solve this? It is like swimming up a waterfall.

Sorry but I don’t share that opinion or observation at all. And I wouldn’t give LN so much credit. If it would have had that much of an impact, Michael’s music would not be everywhere. And no, 99,9% of the people who lidten to MJ do not think he is guilty. I really can’t stand the narrative some LN supporters are trying to push to us all about how anyone who listens to MJ or supports MJ ”knows he is guilty but just doesn’t care”. F**k off!!! That is EXTREMELY insulting and just plain stupid!!! The reason people are okay with MJ is because he was never found guilty and they never have seen any evidence (yes, I mean REAL evidence, not some outlandish bs lies created by some gold-diggers). MOST people aren’t stupid, actually. That’s why LN tanked. No matter how much the media trued to spin the lies…people were able to see through the bs. Or at least they were willing to listen to the facts and not just some propaganda piece and make their own conclusions. The greatest error anyone can ever make is to underestimate people’s intelligence. We’ve seen it in the Depp vs Heard case. Especially as soon as people were presented with the FACTS , everyone knew and understood who the REAL abuser and liar was (= not Johnny Depp). But just like the small group of fanatic ”me too” supporters who STILL try to convince people that Heard is the victim despite everyone having seen the FACTS to prove other wise and which completely exposed her lies, there is a small fanatic group of LN supporters (even though most of those accounts are all fake and orchestrated by Dan Whats-His-Name himself ) who still try to convince people that LN somehow was relevant and true, when everyone already knows it was nothing but bs lies and full of propaganda. I haven’t met a person yet who’d think MJ is guilty (and yes, I mean the average person who wouldn’t be considered a ”fan”).

 

[staywild23]

Sorry but I don’t share that opinion or observation at all. And I wouldn’t give LN so much credit. If it would have had that much of an impact, Michael’s music would not be everywhere.

I agree with you 100%. I have also not seen this at all. Sometimes being online makes it seem bigger because you might read comments under an article or something and it's painful to see so many people attack Michael. But in my experience that is rare and hardly representative of the general public. It's also not the majority, or even close in the vast majority of online spaces in my own observation.

The fact is, Michael's popularity in terms of charts, sales, social media following and mentions, has actually risen since LN by all measurable accounts. But with that aside, I had never even heard of LN until becoming a fan. I would say that's the majority of people. I also think A LOT of people, rightfully, do not blindly trust the media anymore.

And no, 99,9% of the people who lidten to MJ do not think he is guilty.

Absolutely not. Before I became a fan, I barely even remembered that allegations against Michael existed. And I was a teenager during the trial and had a close friend who was a massive fan during it. I became a fan in early 2022 by coming across random reels on Facebook and I didn't immediately even recall the allegations. It was only when I read the overwhelmingly positive comments on every video and with several people always mentioning his innocence that I remembered. And tbf I am grateful for the fans that make an effort to post all the positive and supportive comments because as I did remember more about the allegations and eventually learned LN was a thing, it was the abundance of rational, mature, informative fan comments that convinced me there was more to the story.

My point is Michael's name isn't immediately associated with this negative connotation for everyone. And for those who it is, there is so much tremendous doubt out there. It is *hardly* commonly accepted as fact.

. I haven’t met a person yet who’d think MJ is guilty (and yes, I mean the average person who wouldn’t be considered a ”fan”).

I have met one and it was recent. I mentioned it on another thread. An old friend of mine I haven't talked to much in years who made some horrible comments when I shared that I'm now a massive MJ fan. I was so taken aback by it because in the last year I've not had interactions like that with anyone. And I constantly wear MJ tshirts, have laptop stickers related to him, blast him everywhere I got. In my office at school I even have a poster of MJ related images and lyrics. I only receive positive feedback or no comments on all of these things. Now, maybe people are silently thinking something. But it is my hope that people who know me respect me enough and I have enough credibility with them that they might question their own preconceptions about him when they see how I feel.

All of my family and friends have been supportive. My parents revealed to me that they never believed the allegations in the 90s or 2000s and always felt sorry for Michael. They weren't fans when I was growing up, either. They are just one example of many people (non fans) in my life sharing doubts, or out right not believing in the allegations. It's to the point that when my friend shared his thoughts about Michael being guilty I was actually shocked because I have never in REAL life come up against that. And honestly, it made me judge him a little bit. When I asked how much he has even looked into this and he admitted not at all but repeated all this tabloid garbage, I lost a little respect for him. I don't expect people who aren't fans to "do their research" about Michael. But I also don't expect them to contribute to spewing garbage about someone who they've made no effort to understand. I find that problematic in all cases, MJ related or not. If you have a strong opinion about something but have never actually researched that topic at all, why should anyone respect your opinion?

 

[filmandmusic]

@summer you underestimate how much of a pessimist I am

 

[DangerousGal91]

I agree with you 100%. I have also not seen this at all. Sometimes being online makes it seem bigger because you might read comments under an article or something and it's painful to see so many people attack Michael. But in my experience that is rare and hardly representative of the general public. It's also not the majority, or even close in the vast majority of online spaces in my own observation.

The fact is, Michael's popularity in terms of charts, sales, social media following and mentions, has actually risen since LN by all measurable accounts. But with that aside, I had never even heard of LN until becoming a fan. I would say that's the majority of people. I also think A LOT of people, rightfully, do not blindly trust the media anymore.


Absolutely not. Before I became a fan, I barely even remembered that allegations against Michael existed. And I was a teenager during the trial and had a close friend who was a massive fan during it. I became a fan in early 2022 by coming across random reels on Facebook and I didn't immediately even recall the allegations. It was only when I read the overwhelmingly positive comments on every video and with several people always mentioning his innocence that I remembered. And tbf I am grateful for the fans that make an effort to post all the positive and supportive comments because as I did remember more about the allegations and eventually learned LN was a thing, it was the abundance of rational, mature, informative fan comments that convinced me there was more to the story.

My point is Michael's name isn't immediately associated with this negative connotation for everyone. And for those who it is, there is so much tremendous doubt out there. It is *hardly* commonly accepted as fact.


I have met one and it was recent. I mentioned it on another thread. An old friend of mine I haven't talked to much in years who made some horrible comments when I shared that I'm now a massive MJ fan. I was so taken aback by it because in the last year I've not had interactions like that with anyone. And I constantly wear MJ tshirts, have laptop stickers related to him, blast him everywhere I got. In my office at school I even have a poster of MJ related images and lyrics. I only receive positive feedback or no comments on all of these things. Now, maybe people are silently thinking something. But it is my hope that people who know me respect me enough and I have enough credibility with them that they might question their own preconceptions about him when they see how I feel.

All of my family and friends have been supportive. My parents revealed to me that they never believed the allegations in the 90s or 2000s and always felt sorry for Michael. They weren't fans when I was growing up, either. They are just one example of many people (non fans) in my life sharing doubts, or out right not believing in the allegations. It's to the point that when my friend shared his thoughts about Michael being guilty I was actually shocked because I have never in REAL life come up against that. And honestly, it made me judge him a little bit. When I asked how much he has even looked into this and he admitted not at all but repeated all this tabloid garbage, I lost a little respect for him. I don't expect people who aren't fans to "do their research" about Michael. But I also don't expect them to contribute to spewing garbage about someone who they've made no effort to understand. I find that problematic in all cases, MJ related or not. If you have a strong opinion about something but have never actually researched that topic at all, why should anyone respect your opinion?

Yeah, I've mentioned this in another thread as well, but most people I know IRL never bring up the allegations when I say I like Michael Jackson. Most people simply don't talk about it at all, period. My family haven't really looked into the whole thing and as a result don't have an opinion on it, which is also the stance I used to have for most of my life (though I always secretly wished he was innocent, which he was anyway, but I had no idea at the time).

From experience, the opinions of the general public don't always seem to line up with that of the tabloid media. It's not just even in regards to Michael Jackson. To give another example: back in 2007, around the time when Britney Spears was struggling with her mental health, the tabloids were absolutely vicious. There was even one tabloid article... I won't repeat its contents because it disgusted me so much, but to keep it short and indirect, it was so extremely invasive (and quite TMI) that I couldn't help but think, "...why would I want to read this nonsense?? Why did I open this again???". But there was another article I read, and comments were enabled on it. Now let me tell you, the comment section was full of sympathetic and supportive comments from fans and other people who simply felt bad for Britney. It actually helped change my perception on her struggles because before that, with my young, gullible, ignorant mind, I actually kinda looked down on her and thought she was (God, I'm so sorry...) an "attention-seeking slut". Now obviously that's very false, but that's why I'm so glad that people exist who haven't forgotten that no matter how rich and famous someone is, they're still human beings at the end of the day, with very human struggles. And mental health issues are no joke, especially since I struggle with them myself.

Of course, there will always be people who believe the tabloid nonsense. But from experience, many people don't, or simply don't care about it. I'm not sure if it's the majority of people in general, but definitely the majority of people I personally know.

 

[DangerousGal91]

I was being sarcastic. Of course he's not irredeemable. It's not a non-issue at all, by any means. But he was made a scapegoat, IMHO.

Oh I'm aware you were, I was more talking about the idea that some people might think he's irredeemable, which isn't something I agree with. Still doesn't mean I approve of it, but he regrets it anyway, so it's no use being angry over it anymore.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Oh I'm aware you were, I was more talking about the idea that some people might think he's irredeemable, which isn't something I agree with. Still doesn't mean I approve of it, but he regrets it anyway, so it's no use being angry over it anymore.

Oh ok. I understand now what you were saying.

I think he should have apologized that night if he was going to at all. I don't think he was sorry in the moment, and if he doesn't really feel sorry now, he certainly regrets it. But it would've made it a bit easier to clean up.