Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

terrell

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ksat9;4251019 said:
Losing her black support is probably the worst thing for her. If a large amount of black people especially if they are big enough names (for example I don’t see it happening, but Will Smith or Beyoncé) decide to be done with her the rest will follow.Black people in many ways have a huge influence on pop culture and set trends on what’s in and what’s not amongst the masses. Also she has their support, but if it gets too close to exposure for them they are throwing her under the bus to protect themselves.

Oh yes, Oprah is feeling the heat especially from the black community. She is not unfazed by this and she knows she hit a sour note.
 

terrell

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People love to say ''If Michael was just an average guy living down the street from you, he would have been thrown in prison'' - If Michael was just an average guy then he would have never been accused of something like this, because nobody would have had nothing to gain from him. And if he was just an average guy his upbringing would have been a lot different also.

If MJ was an average guy, they would NOT care if he was accused or not. It gets me to see people running to trash someone when an accusation is made about a famous person YET those same people wont go to their community or the local court house to protest what is going on in front of their nose.
 

L.T.D

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Fans are starting to annoy me on Twitter now. A fan just posted a picture of Michael with his hand on a kids leg (think it might be Jonathan Spence). And compared it to a picture of Wade with his arm around a little girl.

The idea was basically to say 'oh look where Michael's hand is! But you dont say anything about Wade!' Literally just providing the haters more ammo and stuff they would consider as evidence. Fans need to be smarter, I can see why people are telling fans to block Dan Reed now.
 

analogue

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I know fans mean well, and I appreciate their support for Michael. But some of them don't do Michael any favours when they defend him by saying this like ''I know in my heart he's innocent'' or ''He was an angel'' - It's these types of comments that make people dismiss fans as being crazy and deluded.
 

L.T.D

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I know fans mean well, and I appreciate their support for Michael. But some of them don't do Michael any favours when they defend him by saying this like ''I know in my heart he's innocent'' or ''He was an angel'' - It's these types of comments that make people dismiss fans as being crazy and deluded.

Agreed, this is precisely why I've chose to keep my original Twitter picture and have no mention of Michael on my profile. I want to be taken seriously.

Also, I dont know much about this so maybe someone can enlighten me. But fans are also saying to block Keya Morgan because he was accused of doing stuff to Stan Lee which he denies. Are we not in the mindset right now of not judging someone based just on allegations? Surely that would make us hypocrites.

If theres more to that then someone please explain.
 

analogue

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Speaking of Stan Lee. About a year before he passed he also became the victim of the ''Me Too'' movement, but everyone called B.S on the accusations made against him. If Stan Lee (One of the most beloved people ever) wasn't safe from ''Me Too'' then nobody is
 

SoCav

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Agreed, this is precisely why I've chose to keep my original Twitter picture and have no mention of Michael on my profile. I want to be taken seriously.

Also, I dont know much about this so maybe someone can enlighten me. But fans are also saying to block Keya Morgan because he was accused of doing stuff to Stan Lee which he denies. Are we not in the mindset right now of not judging someone based just on allegations? Surely that would make us hypocrites.

If theres more to that then someone please explain.
Haven't looked into it, so have no idea how true all of this is, but:
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10/07/stan-lee-statement-hostage-videos-keya-morgan/
 

L.T.D

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I just think that unless its provable he did this, then its extremely hypocritical of us to say that about Keya Morgan right now, funnily enough I said this to the fan that posted that and they didnt reply.
 

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So MJ Estate have been sending out a 24-slide powerpoint presentation with factual information to the press.




https://www.billboard.com/articles/...reporting-leaving-neverland-lawyers-speak-out



Scrambling to soften the impact of HBO's Leaving Neverland, which alleges that Michael Jackson sexually abused two children, the late singer's estate has been informing the media of its many concerns about the credibility of the film and its stars, accusers James Safechuck and Wade Robson.

The estate recently provided Billboard with a 24-page working PowerPoint document, titled "Leaving Neverland and the Truth," that questions the accusers' memories and the filmmakers' motives in detail. The estate also attached recent news clips in which the singer's defense attorney, Thomas Mesereau Jr. called the charges "hogwash."

The document, not intended for publication, details what the estate says are dozens of examples in the documentary of bias, inconsistency and footage taken out of context. In the film, for example, Robson says Jackson invited him to sleep in his bed, but "in his deposition," the material states, "he makes clear that he and his sister were the ones who initiated the idea, and that Michael insisted they ask their parents." The film also portrays Jackson wishing Robson a happy birthday in a video "suggesting a creepy, predatory manner," when he recorded numerous similar greetings around the same time, the estate notes. Other concerns: the director "audibly coached" Robson at one point in an interview; the film neglects to mention Robson's attempts to find work with Cirque du Soleil's tribute shows after Jackson's death; and Jackson's defense attorney Mark Geragos appears to be threatening an accuser in a 2005 clip shown in the movie -- but the estate says the clip was pulled from a press conference from unrelated litigation involving a charter-jet company.

"The quotes are taken out of context and no effort was made to clarify," notes the estate, which sued HBO before the film's wide debut for violating a 1992 nondisparagement clause. (The network didn't comment.)

But an estate representative says few media outlets have expressed interest in its grievances with the film.

"Much of this information is available online, and we have sent various pieces to the media, but no one has really been interested in reporting on it [or] digging further than the documentary," the estate rep told Billboard.

Mesereau, in an interview with Billboard, said the Leaving Neverland accusations were reminiscent of Jackson's 2004-05 child-molestation trial, when "the entire world was condemning him and no one thought we could get a fair trial." A jury found Jackson not guilty of all charges. (Ron Zonen, the retired prosecutor who helped bring Jackson to trial in 2004, says the defense attorney is "preserving his own legacy.")

In an interview, estate attorneys were equally keen to point out inconsistencies. The night before Robson testified for the defense during the 2005 trial, he said in Leaving Neverland, Jackson looked upset at a dinner. But Jackson's nephew Taj and others who were present said the dinner took place after the testimony.

"That whole story is made-up fiction," says Jonathan Steinsapir, one of the estate's attorneys. Adds his partner, Howard Weitzman: "It's hard to tell what the impact [of the documentary] will be. What is clear is people are drawing conclusions without knowing all the facts. They're depending on a documentary that we know is not completely accurate."

Vince Finaldi, attorney for Robson and Safechuck, explains that misremembering small details is normal for child victims of abuse: "They can try and nitpick little things -- 'Was he sitting on the left or the right side of the car?' If you understand the mechanics of sexual abuse, kids are not remembering insignificant details, but they have a vivid memory of what happened to them."



So, I don't know when that information was sent, but I assume it was fairly recent. If so then it's far too late IMO, given how long this whole scandal has been going on. If the press continue the biased coverage it's not due to lack of knowledge, their tendency to want to copy and paste (Rather than write original content), nor because of poor research. It will be 100% intentionally unfair coverage. I suspect it was anyway, but whatever.

One positive is that,even without the Estate's powerpoint, some news media have started to change their coverage. For example, Daily Express and Daily Mirror. Sadly this is not enough.
 

Soundmind

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so the estate has been waiting for the fans to do the investigation and then they prepared a power point of what the fans have found and sent it to the media begging them to be taken seriously. That's their rebuttal? Man, I do not know what to say really.
 

elusive moonwalker

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MJFacts is very active in defending Wades and James story against us.
Read their newest article:

https://www.************/wade-and-james-fan-myths-busted/

Ok this didn't work.... you have do google the webside.

From what ive read interms of someone who either ran or worked/works for mj facts they could allegedly have connections to nambla. When another nambla apologist whos trying (again) to flog his mj book on amazon was outed a few years ago. The woman from mj facts used his real name instead of pen name and said it takes one to know one interms of her connection to him.read into that as you will...
 

analogue

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so the estate has been waiting for the fans to do the investigation and then they prepared a power point of what the fans have found and sent it to the media begging them to be taken seriously. That's their rebuttal? Man, I do not know what to say really.

The Estates next strategy is too release Breaking News as a single
 

KOPV

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speaking of MJf*cts... I have noticed how every other full interview gets taken down but theirs stay up.. How? Why? To me that leads me to believe a specific connect!

PS. Something that bothers me is not only are companies like Startbucks muting Michael but when they see the proof they've made a mistake and go back to playing Michael... they (all or most of them) will not have the decency to make an public appology or statement. They will just unmute and pretend it never happened!

It's sick to me...
 

terrell

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so the estate has been waiting for the fans to do the investigation and then they prepared a power point of what the fans have found and sent it to the media begging them to be taken seriously. That's their rebuttal? Man, I do not know what to say really.

Yall, be patient. This maybe one step. I do not blame them. Send it to as many press as they can. If they report it, so be it; if not, so be it (it will only show more of the media bias). As for Ron Zonen, comment about TMez, that is a joke, the WORLD and press saw your dumb case and how he and Sneddon did so his view is irrelevant (he is a DA who lost. They will stand by their nonsense as well even if proven to be wrong with DNA). Again, the doc was still an overall failure and is more media driven than by overall public. And Wade/James lawyer can shut up. Nikepick, well fool, your clients have too much lies to even debate that logic. I do not think people overall are stupid as some folks think. WE just give attention to the haters.
 

terrell

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speaking of MJf*cts... I have noticed how every other full interview gets taken down but theirs stay up.. How? Why? To me that leads me to believe a specific connect!

PS. Something that bothers me is not only are companies like Startbucks muting Michael but when they see the proof they've made a mistake and go back to playing Michael... they (all or most of them) will not have the decency to make an public appology or statement. They will just unmute and pretend it never happened!

It's sick to me...
Exacty. Here MJ is still being played in the malls, stores, radio etc. if I was not on here or searching, I would see nothing has changed for MJ.
 

Soundmind

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I am telling you the estate has not done any investigation into Wade or Safechuck past. They got very confident about their legal argument and that was it for them. They are reacting. Waiting for the fans to do the work. Insane. TMez you are really missed. TMez got Gavin's teachers to testify against him. Searched their history brought up everything against them and that case had lasted only for two years. They have been in litigation with them for 7 years and that's what they got against them? all done by the fans in the last month ****
 

terrell

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I am telling you the estate has not done any investigation into Wade or Safechuck past. They got very confident about their legal argument and that was it for them. They are reacting. Waiting for the fans to do the work. Insane. TMez you are really missed. TMez got Gavin's teachers to testify against him. Searched their history brought up everything against them and that case had lasted only for two years. They have been in litigation with them for 7 years and that's what they got against them? all done by the fans in the last month ****

If they do a rebuttal, that may be in something like that but in the meantime until it is finished, sending stuff around is still good to do. And for Wade/James lawyer, that fool does not know when people hear him (again, I am not talking about haters. just people with brains), that show what this is all about $$$$. Remember fool, you are representing guys who defended MJ even in COURT OF LAW for 25 years. To most people, that does not fly.
 

Annita

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I am telling you the estate has not done any investigation into Wade or Safechuck past. They got very confident about their legal argument and that was it for them. QUOTE]


Then you have not follow the cases against Robson and Safechuck, if you think so. They are on point and they are well informed. You may also read their letter to HBO
 
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Yall, be patient. This maybe one step. I do not blame them. Send it to as many press as they can. If they report it, so be it; if not, so be it (it will only show more of the media bias). As for Ron Zonen, comment about TMez, that is a joke, the WORLD and press saw your dumb case and how he and Sneddon did so his view is irrelevant (he is a DA who lost. They will stand by their nonsense as well even if proven to be wrong with DNA). Again, the doc was still an overall failure and is more media driven than by overall public. And Wade/James lawyer can shut up. Nikepick, well fool, your clients have too much lies to even debate that logic. I do not think people overall are stupid as some folks think. WE just give attention to the haters.

Was Ron Zonen not in the Austraila Sunday Nigh special with Jocobshagen directed by Dan Reeds friend or was it anouther guy from sneddens team who was interviewed there?
I think Ron Zonen knew about LN and was interviewed by Dan Reed in the footage Dan Reed didn't bought in LN but should be part of LN Part 2.
 
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The estate should have the courage to release their presentation on the Michael Jackson You Tube Channel with a closed comment section!!
They should use the channel as thei offical speaking tube.
Its now not the time anymore to nor use their own media appearences.
They should reconized it that this is a conspiricy from many sights and this is the only way to fight against it.
 
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Speaking of Stan Lee. About a year before he passed he also became the victim of the ''Me Too'' movement, but everyone called B.S on the accusations made against him. If Stan Lee (One of the most beloved people ever) wasn't safe from ''Me Too'' then nobody is

Oh wow, that guy Keya Morgan has been defending MJ big time on Twitter. I see his tweets constantly. So was Stan actually accused of sexual assault or what was it?
 

michael555

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Here in france, there was a debate after the broadcast.... Even if i don't agree 100% with what has been said, Dan Reed was a bit ill at ease...
Somebody should subtitle it in english !
 

Ramona122003

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If they do a rebuttal, that may be in something like that but in the meantime until it is finished, sending stuff around is still good to do. And for Wade/James lawyer, that fool does not know when people hear him (again, I am not talking about haters. just people with brains), that show what this is all about $$$$. Remember fool, you are representing guys who defended MJ even in COURT OF LAW for 25 years. To most people, that does not fly.

I find it more strange that fans think that the Estate is just copying and pasting stuff the fans dug up when they're the ones who fought the court case for several years and did the discovery. I mean, it wasn't the fans who found all those emails like Wade shopping a book or got Wade's mom on record going against her own son without her knowing it.

That and we don't know what's actually in the document. Just broadstrokes.

That and I also believed that Estate wanted to see what the public reaction was going to be, and for the most part the public isn't buying it. Only those who already believed he did something and the media trying to make the documentary much bigger than what it was.
 

ksat9

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terrell;4251171 said:
Again, the doc was still an overall failure and is more media driven than by overall public. And Wade/James lawyer can shut up. Nikepick, well fool, your clients have too much lies to even debate that logic. I do not think people overall are stupid as some folks think. WE just give attention to the haters.
You saw how they switched from saying to cancel and mute Michael to saying he’s too big of a star to be canceled.
People either noticed the bs from the jump or did research and saw how full of it they all are.
Their old school tactics in the era of the internet where information is easily accessible and the era of social media where facts are able to spread much faster is not working like they used to.
Yes he does have haters, but I feel he has more supporters than people realize.
 

elusive moonwalker

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Here in france, there was a debate after the broadcast.... Even if i don't agree 100% with what has been said, Dan Reed was a bit ill at ease...
Somebody should subtitle it in english !

It has been on twitter. He was shown up when at last someone held him to account
 

analogue

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Oh wow, that guy Keya Morgan has been defending MJ big time on Twitter. I see his tweets constantly. So was Stan actually accused of sexual assault or what was it?

Yes he was, but zero evidence was shown for it, and people said those accusations were B.S. Shame people won't treat Michael with that kind of respect
 

KOPV

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Here in france, there was a debate after the broadcast.... Even if i don't agree 100% with what has been said, Dan Reed was a bit ill at ease...
Somebody should subtitle it in english !
I am going to france in about 3 weeks or so.. I am curious how different it will be there than here regarding Michael right now..
 

Ramona122003

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Yes he was, but zero evidence was shown for it, and people said those accusations were B.S. Shame people won't treat Michael with that kind of respect

The different is that Michael was accused several times in the past and one of them went to trial (even though it shouldn't). Compared to Lee who had no such record being accused. That and Stan, RIP, was white while Michael was black.
 

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I am going to france in about 3 weeks or so.. I am curious how different it will be there than here regarding Michael right now..

I saw some segments of the debate on Twitter, the Olivier Cachin guy was really critical of Dan Reed and the documentary, they were very skeptical and critical and it felt like they were trying to get to the truth of it. I thought that was really cool and refreshing to see.
 
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