Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[La74]

This is very true. It’s the classic “argumentum ad personam”, as described by Schopenhauer as the last trick, if all else fails.

“A last trick is to become personal, insulting, rude, as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand, and that you are going to come off worst. It consists in passing from the subject of dispute, as from a lost game, to the disputant himself, and in some way attacking his person. It may be called the argumentum ad personam, to distinguish it from the argumentum ad hominem, which passes from the objective discussion of the subject pure and simple to the statements or admissions which your opponent has made in regard to it. But in becoming personal you leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack to his person, by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character. It is an appeal from the virtues of the intellect to the virtues of the body, or to mere animalism. This is a very popular trick, because every one is able to carry it into effect; and so it is of frequent application.”

http://coolhaus.de/art-of-controversy/erist38.htm

It only shows how weak our opponent actually is.

I agree. They can’t arguecwith facts because that would prove us right so that is all they got.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

If anything the film and their promotional interviews for it further damaged their credibility and gave the MJ Estate legal team more ammunition to fire at them!
BUT the film was a good PR move for them. It may have have tarnished any future jury pool or judge etc. I blame the media for that. If the media did their job properly they would have properly reported all the lies, contradictions, changing stories, stolen footage, misleading press conference footage, unethical editing of audio etc. They didn't need to "victim blame" or support a "pedo". Being accurate and impartial means not supporting one side or the other. Their accurate reports would have told the public all they needed to know - that the accusers are liars, the director is a crook, and the film cannot be taken at face value or trusted.

That's exactly it. LN has poisoned a lot of minds and some still side with the fake victims, sadly. But really, when the estate presents actual evidence and facts, when they debunk the train station and more, when they show how these two men aren't reliable at all and in fact are the exact opposite of it, when they show the history of lies and contradictions....you'd think the only conclusion can be that they dismisses it once again, no matter what some of these jurors might think of MJ.

Back in 2017, was it a jury as well that dismissed it or only the judge? I think it was the judge?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Judge. There have been no trials

 

[La74]

That's exactly it. LN has poisoned a lot of minds and some still side with the fake victims, sadly. But really, when the estate presents actual evidence and facts, when they debunk the train station and more, when they show how these two men aren't reliable at all and in fact are the exact opposite of it, when they show the history of lies and contradictions....you'd think the only conclusion can be that they dismisses it once again, no matter what some of these jurors might think of MJ.

Back in 2017, was it a jury as well that dismissed it or only the judge? I think it was the judge?

I agree. I don’t think WR or JS has made any real interview since that Oprah special and Dan Reed only in situations then he wasn’t asked any critical questions. The whole point with open arbitration in the Estate vs HBO is to get the opportunity to expose LN isn’t is.

 

[MJPoetryFan]

I have to admit, sorry but, this news of the liars being granted a new trial....has put me in a real funk. It always just seems MJ is up against it. It’s so frustrating 😔

 

[ScreenOrigami]

I have to admit, sorry but, this news of the liars being granted a new trial....has put me in a real funk. It always just seems MJ is up against it. It’s so frustrating ��

They haven’t been granted a trial yet. Their cases can still get dismissed.

 

[PoP]

They haven’t been granted a trial yet. Their cases can still get dismissed.

Well if they granted a trial, I’m gonna go hellbent all over again.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

The cases have gone back to square one. Like in 2013 there will be dozens of motions for dismissal that will take years. Safechuck will be dismissed as he wasnt working for the companies..

The rulings are a joke. The law is supposed to be for ppl who couldnt sue due to limitations.they were able to sue and the cases were thrown out. Therefore they lost nothing due to the previous law been in place

 

[DifferentKindOfLady]

When this is going to end? Because I´m so TIRED of the same shitt over and over again for years! This guys are so ridiculous! They literally do whatever they can to put their dirty hands in some money.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

The cases have gone back to square one. Like in 2013 there will be dozens of motions for dismissal that will take years. Safechuck will be dismissed as he wasnt working for the companies..

The rulings are a joke. The law is supposed to be for ppl who couldnt sue due to limitations.they were able to sue and the cases were thrown out. Therefore they lost nothing due to the previous law been in place

Then we have nothing to worry about. It's their ridiculous stories full of holes, inconsistencies, lies that can be debunked versus what the estate has. So unless these assholes have a third "victim" which the chances of is second to none I'd say...it's all good. It's just sad that there's no end to this nonsense, absolutely insane.

 

[Soundmind]

They want to be in the news. They are enjoying the limelight a d that's enough for them to continue with the lawsuit even though they know they will never be able to get any money from the estate.

 

[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is ironic by Reed. So now, all of a sudden he wants it to be discovered who allegedly enabled and covered up Wade and James' &quot;abuse&quot;? Yet, he did not even make mention of that part of their claim (which is the central part in their lawsuit) in a 4 hours &quot;documentary&quot;. <a href="https://t.co/UWlDfPnQSj">https://t.co/UWlDfPnQSj</a></p>&mdash; Justice for The Falsely Accused (@JuliaBerkowitz1) <a href="https://twitter.com/JuliaBerkowitz1/status/1197379223641612288?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">21. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I was proud to be right there for my uncle then and I am even more proud to be there for him today. &#128077;&#127997; <a href="https://t.co/VMuL3Vi7y1">https://t.co/VMuL3Vi7y1</a></p>&mdash; Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1197215045626683397?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">20. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The documentary will be screened in Amsterdam, and will likely be available on Amazon Prime in the US in January 2020. As for China, <a href="https://t.co/fPctTe5EAP">https://t.co/fPctTe5EAP</a> is considering collaborating with a domestic video-streaming website to screen the film. <br> <a href="https://t.co/rp9FTtwP61">https://t.co/rp9FTtwP61</a></p>&mdash; adri (@mayonakagirl) <a href="https://twitter.com/mayonakagirl/status/1197531031148085249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">21. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Never gets old. <a href="https://t.co/HtPXp5lCov">pic.twitter.com/HtPXp5lCov</a></p>&mdash; kapowski &#127987;&#65039;*&#127752; (@santikapowski) <a href="https://twitter.com/santikapowski/status/1197542227821649920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">21. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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[terrell]

They want to be in the news. They are enjoying the limelight a d that's enough for them to continue with the lawsuit even though they know they will never be able to get any money from the estate.

And those fools know they are going to lose but now it is all about trying to desgtroy MJ's legency. That is why they go crazy when MJ does GREAT and sales are up and majority of people are paying these liars no attention. If u look at it, it is the SAME few sites that focus on these liars (and those were always MJ hater sites. Even most other medias are now backing down). CAN NOT STOP MJ.

 

[La74]

Look at the stock market for Key Media group.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Two things you can&#39;t beat the market and the consumers. Compelling ATL for <a href="https://twitter.com/kewmediagroup?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@kewmediagroup</a>. <br><br>Follow the money and you will have the answers. <br><br>For more info read <a href="https://twitter.com/MJJRepository?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MJJRepository</a> excellent tread about some real Gut-Wrenchig work <a href="https://twitter.com/svt?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@svt</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/svtdokumentar?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@svtdokumentar</a>.<a href="https://t.co/c8mfjrCrOj">https://t.co/c8mfjrCrOj</a> <a href="https://t.co/GaXU6Gfah3">pic.twitter.com/GaXU6Gfah3</a></p>&mdash; Sandhya Forselius (@SandhyaF10) <a href="https://twitter.com/SandhyaF10/status/1198551559271002113?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 24, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[La74]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As stated you can&#39;t beat the consumers. <br><br>AT&amp;T TV Now Has Lost 37% of Its Customer Base in Just 12 Months <a href="https://t.co/lh1K3h2lka">https://t.co/lh1K3h2lka</a></p>&mdash; Sandhya Forselius (@SandhyaF10) <a href="https://twitter.com/SandhyaF10/status/1198695259405991943?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 24, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You need some attention tonight, Judd? I guess you missed the part about the 10-year FBI, &amp; Sheriffs investigations yielding absolutely nothing, &amp; you must’ve missed the not-guilty verdicts? If you need press or people to talk about you, I suppose this is one way to go about it.</p>&mdash; Zachary Jaydon (@ZacharyJaydon) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZacharyJaydon/status/1198177846214217734?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">23. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If you never change your mind about anything, you’re just not thinking! In March I thought Michael Jackson might be a pedophile. Now I know he’s innocent. I once voted for Boris Johnson as mayor of London. Now I know he’s a morally bankrupt &amp; soulless shyster. Follow the facts!</p>&mdash; Rebecca K (@RebsTweet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RebsTweet/status/1198543332902875136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">24. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is why Michael won't never be cancelled period! There's no other artist that has such power to enchant people from every age &#128557;. This is why every pathetic attempt to throw him down shall fail miserably he was/is an INNOCENT man and he shall always be loved for it. <a href="https://t.co/vOvjD9HD7L">https://t.co/vOvjD9HD7L</a></p>&mdash; Himura Kenshin (@HimuraBattou28) <a href="https://twitter.com/HimuraBattou28/status/1198659879130587136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">24. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Happy Thanksgiving to everyone (not in a cult) who has followed my work this year. A special thanks to my most loyal followers <a href="https://twitter.com/swidrowwe?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@swidrowwe</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/brianjsymes?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@brianjsymes</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/JoyLinehan?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JoyLinehan</a> &amp; all the amazingly devoted critics of HBO’s bogus film “Leaving Neverland” who’ve helped spread the truth this year!</p>&mdash; John Ziegler (@Zigmanfreud) <a href="https://twitter.com/Zigmanfreud/status/1200114005890625538?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">28. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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[Paris78]

shanamangatal
https://www.instagram.com/p/B5Z2IfVperi/?igshid=1mgi88p01uevp
For all of you who have jumped on the band wagon to bully and attack me over a “train station”, please read this. Today is Thanksgiving in America. I’m spending it with my mother. Meanwhile, I’ve received at least 100 nasty messages from young Michael Jackson fans asking why I have “turned on him” and “betrayed” him. They’re asking, why I’m now supporting James Safechuck and Leaving Neverland.They’re calling me the worst names you could possibly imagine. Many don’t even know why they’re attacking me. They’re doing it simply because they “heard” something from their other friends.Typical of this “group think” era.This needs to stop. I’ve been defending MJ my entire life (almost 50 years), and I STILL AM.For those of you confused, like I am, here’s what happened..SIX MONTHS ago, on my YT channel, fans asked me if I knew when the Neverland train station was built. I decided to help them out by looking through ALL of my VHS tapes from that time. Miraculously, I found one of MJ at Neverland with the train station already built, from the 1st week of January, 1994. That means it was probably built in 93.I gave the fans this factual info in the comments. That was it. Apparently that wasn’t the answer they were looking for, as some had been hoping that the station was built later than 94, thus proving to them that Safechuck is lying about everything (even though I thought 92 was the year they said he was there &#129300.Fast forward to now-someone dug up those old comments and that was all it took for me to be viciously attacked and called a “liar”, for ironically, telling the TRUTH. A campaign to discredit me has been going on ever since I came out and said that MJ was a normal man who liked women. MJ himself, was also the victim of false info being spread about him and it killed him.Please wake up and realize what’s happening. Think for yourself and try not to be so easily swayed by misinformation. And please be kind to all. Thank you&#10084;&#65039; #happythanksgivng #mjinnocent

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For those of you now demanding to see the video that I mentioned, of the Neverland Train Station being there on January 7th, 1994, here it is. I didn’t edit it, so that no one can accuse me of using a video from… <a href="https://t.co/ejvt4TmoKc">https://t.co/ejvt4TmoKc</a></p>&mdash; Shana Mangatal (@ImShanaMangatal) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImShanaMangatal/status/1200099748486766592?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">28. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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[elusive moonwalker]

Looney fake girlfriend craving attention again.

 

[terrell]

Looney fake girlfriend craving attention again.

I agree.

 

[terrell]

Also, You see where Kid Rock is calling out Oprah. LOL. I tell ya, Oprah is being called out more this year. She starting to be expose. I said, her doing Leaving Neverland was going giver her creditability a hit and it not just Kid Rock blasting her still either.

 

[ozemouze]

The irony of this. Notice how these people always play the victim card. She was just asked a simple and reasonable question which she fails to answer but claims is "harassment". And there's clearly no reason why she's so unwilling to listen to facts - unless there's an agenda of course.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">so what is <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AskAva?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AskAva</a> about if not to ask questions? No doubt you believe what you've been told, but have you actually checked what you've been told? Have you read all available evidence? If not then you're joining the lynch mob mentality of condemning without evidence</p>&mdash; &#127987;&#65039;*&#127752; Red &#128308;&#9898; (@lizzleinbrizzle) <a href="https://twitter.com/lizzleinbrizzle/status/1200490774338719744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 29.</a></blockquote>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You make a project about victims of false allegations, you defend their presumption of innocence and due process as it should be. Why can't you apply that logic for Michael Jackson who was investigated and cleared of all charges?<br>He doesn't deserve the same treatment?</p>&mdash; sometimegirl (@FerreraRonalda) <a href="https://twitter.com/FerreraRonalda/status/1200489891517218816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 29.</a></blockquote>

 

[ScreenOrigami]

The irony of this. Notice how these people always play the victim card. She was just asked a simple and reasonable question which she fails to answer but claims is "harassment". And there's clearly no reason why she's so unwilling to listen to facts - unless there's an agenda of course.

I&#8217;ll just leave this here &#8230;

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">1. Bash Michael Jackson<br>2. Get HBO show<br>3. Nobody watches<br>4. ???<br>5. Profit <a href="https://t.co/CeiwaFQP34">https://t.co/CeiwaFQP34</a></p>&mdash; RazörFist (@RAZ0RFIST) <a href="https://twitter.com/RAZ0RFIST/status/1200677718280437762?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[terrell]

Edit/deleted

 

[dam2040]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fpE_dy81pk

\
Have you all see this on YouTube?

Don't link such nonsense without telling us what it is first. We don't want to give any viewership to this.

Advice to fans don't click this link.

 

[terrell]

Don't link such nonsense without telling us what it is first. We don't want to give any viewership to this.

Advice to fans don't click this link.

I agree. I was just about it to move it. I just realise that the same fool who always talk trash.Clearly wants hits. Deleting it. Plus that is an OLD show.

 

[myosotis]

Edit/deleted

The entire argument? 'No smoke without fire' . (Though they did at least mention 'presumption of innocence' after extensive discussion of 'grooming' and 'trauma'. ) Interesting that they gave some priority to discussing parents and employees who 'enable' abuse / turn a blind eye. This seems to be a newish trend since LN.

No wonder this show was cancelled after one series. No substantive information, just a rehash of tabloid views.

 

[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">At the 52 minute mark, listen to John Branca throw shade all over Oprah. <a href="https://t.co/Fuoo6Ra0U4">https://t.co/Fuoo6Ra0U4</a></p>&mdash; andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/1200502390702522368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">29. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I agree that you shouldn’t be harassed. But I am sincerely asking what will or could change your mind? Or at least for you to consider another perspective? I know you are a champion for black human and civil rights, yet for some reason, you don’t see us. Does my family not count? <a href="https://t.co/1CPZ3fR8u3">https://t.co/1CPZ3fR8u3</a></p>&mdash; Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1200486463705513984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">29. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’m sure u didn’t know the back story behind the article when you shared it. But Maureen Orth, the author, is a KNOWN MJ hater in the fandom. She also wrote a very racist article on Vanity Fair over a decade ago that Michael paid for a voodoo curse on S. Spielberg and D. Geffen.</p>&mdash; Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1200557103288467456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">29. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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[ozemouze]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’m sure u didn’t know the back story behind the article when you shared it. But Maureen Orth, the author, is a KNOWN MJ hater in the fandom. She also wrote a very racist article on Vanity Fair over a decade ago that Michael paid for a voodoo curse on S. Spielberg and D. Geffen.</p>— Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1200557103288467456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">29. November 2019</a></blockquote>
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Just to clarify: she wasn't harassed, she was asked a simple, reasonable question. Please don't accept her distortion of the events as factual. And it's very childish from her that she thinks being annoyed justifies not wanting to know the truth ("I stopped listening").

And very telling how she thinks Taj was sending "his folks" (???) at her. Maybe that's the way she operates?

Oh and notice how she still doesn't reply to the actual question...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nice deflection of the question</p>&mdash; &#120016;&#120053;&#120050;&#120060;&#120060;&#120042; &#120029;&#120050;&#120044;&#120056;&#120053;&#120046; (@lalexi3) <a href="https://twitter.com/lalexi3/status/1200493398924431361?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 29.</a></blockquote>
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