Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I'm feeling a bit dense here.

I read about the film trailer, went to YT, looked for 'Leaving Neverland' and found this documentary (48 mins) by Globalmovietrailers on 29 Jan 2019. It has over 175K views, and comments indicate that commenters think its the Reed doc trailer. But it's got no mention of Reed in the credits and no mention of R and S in the contents (yep, I watched it all to find out what this was - all 48 mins). LOL. There is mention of the Reed doc, Sundance and R&S in the 'About' details, but that's all.

Some of the contents are a bit 'off' (and plenty of mention of the 'Blanket' incident at the hotel window), but no more than that.

A sheep in wolf's clothing?

Leaving Neverland full documentary 2019 - Michael Jackson (Michael Jackson documentary biography)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLpzM3kj29Q


Someone taking advantage of the publicity? or planning to do a switcheroo later.....??

Dated 27 Jan 19. It predates Sundance, so just a coincidence?? (It's a useful diversion, anyway :) )


did you upload the full "Docu"? The video got blocked by HBO.

someone has LN and can upload?

 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

So !
The "documentary" will be broadcasted, and The Estate and the Jackson family have totally failed.

There was no stopping it, they had no legal action to take that could have prevented it.


Now I do have a question, I am aware that Michael is not protected by California law since he is no longer a living person for slander.. Well, don't they also claim Brett and Macauley were molested in the documentary? They are living! That's slandering them!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

There was no stopping it, they had no legal action to take that could have prevented it.


Now I do have a question, I am aware that Michael is not protected by California law since he is no longer a living person for slander.. Well, don't they also claim Brett and Macauley were molested in the documentary? They are living! That's slandering them!

I have another question, Did the Estate give permission for showing Michael's videoclip? If not, why the Estate is in silence.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

did you upload the full "Docu"? The video got blocked by HBO.

someone has LN and can upload?

It was an entirely DIFFERENT doc, going by part of the same name. It seemed to have nothing to do with Reed & Co. It might have been loaded there by fans?, maybe using the LN name to divert attention away from the 'real' (fiction) film by Reed. That's why HBO have blocked it.

It was a very clever tactic, if done deliberately :)
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

That trailer for LN is just ridiculous, you can see that they are acting, WR takes a gulp and flicks his eyes when he talks about lying for so long. This guy knows exactly what he's doing.

It's going to be tough but I think MJs reputation will remain in tact, if not better than it was before.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Just watched the Razorfist video (part 2) hadn't come around to checking that out yet because I was mostly browsing here, posting or just no time for it. That is a fantastic video for sure. He goes straight to the point and actually starts with Safechuck, really good stuff here. Again, I just love the internet for things like these. Social media and YouTube, it's top notch for this. I don't believe we had it like this back in 2005.

Oh, Nevermind. Turns out I watched part 2 first. I'll go check out part 1 now too.

That trailer for LN is just ridiculous, you can see that they are acting, WR takes a gulp and flicks his eyes when he talks about lying for so long. This guy knows exactly what he's doing.

It's going to be tough but I think MJs reputation will remain in tact, if not better than it was before.

Oh absolutely and you can compare it to when he was telling the truth and where he was genuine about MJ during the interview with Jimmy Kimmel where the assclown asks Wade "Where did he touch you" compare that to the clips we have so far of Wade on TV where he's acting like the victim and you see how fake it is.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I just saw a Finnish news article which said that HBO Nordic is not gonna add LN to their streaming service here in Finland :)
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I have another question, Did the Estate give permission for showing Michael's videoclip? If not, why the Estate is in silence.

'Fair use' is allowed. There's more information if you can google it.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

'Fair use' is allowed. There's more information if you can google it.

"Faire use" is conditioned since this is an exception I think, no?
 
That trailer for the Aussie channel 7 show - I don’t think I’ve seen anything worse. They interview the man who killed MJ and throw in a fraud (Jacob whatever his name is) and Diane Dimond?!

This would only happen to MJ.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Just watched the Razorfist video (part 2) hadn't come around to checking that out yet because I was mostly browsing here, posting or just no time for it. That is a fantastic video for sure. He goes straight to the point and actually starts with Safechuck, really good stuff here. Again, I just love the internet for things like these. Social media and YouTube, it's top notch for this. I don't believe we had it like this back in 2005.
Razorfist's video is like the best thing these days. There are many great videos debunking the case, and I appreciate all of them :heart:, but the content makes me sad and furious (understandably). What stands out with Razorfist I guess that he takes the offensive and handles it so well.
I'm so tired of the fact we are always put on the defensive, we've needed him and his cursing. :cool:
 
dmehta;4241997 said:
That trailer for the Aussie channel 7 show - I don’t think I’ve seen anything worse. They interview the man who killed MJ and throw in a fraud (Jacob whatever his name is) and Diane Dimond?!

This would only happen to MJ.

I think the reaction of Jermaine is worst, shame.
Before this trailer, in another interview he was close to cry !
Taj is must give lessons for Jermaine to talk on TV.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I saw the trailer. I've seen better acting from porno movies. Over 5,000 dislikes already! See there? I told you it's going to be alright. Most people have seen through their lies. Just keep spreading the facts out there. We're doing a great job so far. FOREVER MICHAEL!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

You know what, you're totally right and I apologize too. I've been too doom and gloomy and usually that's not who I am. I guess my limit had been reached and I started being overly negative. Especially when I see all the tweets on the latest page and how people really aren't happy with it. Seems like it's not just only fans either, which is fantastic news.

Which would indeed mean that a lot of people just either ignore the news or they do see it on TV and don't believe it at all. Social media truly is a blessing when it comes to this. From here on out you won't see me as "panicky" and jumping to conclusions on how people/non fans will react to it. That's a promise :)



That book, isn't that the book police found during the raid, when it was unopened, sent by a fan and Radar Online obtained photos of this and doctored them. Correct?



I'm loving this. All the praise, positivity for MJ and all these people bringing the factual information. Oh and that person that replies with that he always thought he was right about Michael but how that video changed his mind completely.

Things like that sure motivate me to keep on posting on social media too.

No worries. :) That's what we're all here for....to support each other (or to give a "friendly whack" when needed! :sarmotiLOL!) All good! *hugs*

I just saw a Finnish news article which said that HBO Nordic is not gonna add LN to their streaming service here in Finland

GO SCANDINAVIA!!! :bow::clapping::kickass:

'Fair use' is allowed. There's more information if you can google it.

Well...consiering the context in which they are using MJ's image and likeness....it HARDLY qualifies as "FAIR use" though.....
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

My money is on safechuck being the first to break. He will blame Wade and Reed for forcing him to lie for them, for the documentary. This might be one of the best things to happen to Michael in a strange way.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Just interested on peoples stance on watching The documentary (I use the word in th loosest terms - tissue of lies is more accurate). I refuse to as i feel that I am boosting ratings. But I realise that this means I am not able to honestly say I have seen it when defending Michael. Should I watch it to know what I am arguing against? Should I waste 4 hours on something I already know is trash?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

'Daily blast' on TV live right now talking about it. Very neutral in their thoughts, but telling audiences to watch it to open the discussion..
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

My money is on safechuck being the first to break. He will blame Wade and Reed for forcing him to lie for them, for the documentary. This might be one of the best things to happen to Michael in a strange way.

Honestly, I don't think either one of them will break.

They can't afford to be outed as liars. They'll likely go to their graves insisting that it happened.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Honestly, I don't think either one of them will break.

They can't afford to be outed as liars. They'll likely go to their graves insisting that it happened.

Yeah they're in way too deep now. If they get outed as liars their lives are over.
 
Guys.. I have to say that since it came on the news from the announcement airing on Sundance to the point that there showing it on tv worldwide, I’m really furious and feel powerless. It looks like media is winning over the sheep’s that believe everything. It comes to the point that I’m really done now and I’m ready to drop bombs (not literally). Dutch fans I need you to help me to stand up towards the media to at least let them show what kind of crap this documentary is. I mean the best viewed entertainment program has a guy living in America that reports from there, saying that he is a ‘fan’ but believes this crap.

Can we demonstrate there? Yes
Can we collect all the evidence and keep spamming them with it? Yes

There are tons of things we can think of, but we need to stand up.

Send me an email if you want to help me out and let’s stand together.

Romano
email - romano92@live.nl
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Just interested on peoples stance on watching The documentary (I use the word in th loosest terms - tissue of lies is more accurate). I refuse to as i feel that I am boosting ratings. But I realise that this means I am not able to honestly say I have seen it when defending Michael. Should I watch it to know what I am arguing against? Should I waste 4 hours on something I already know is trash?

I advice every fan to refrain from watching to NOT give them ratings! There are MLLIONS of MJ fans and that is EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE COUNTING ON to get them great ratings!!! They don't care if you're gonna watch because youre OUTRAGED. The ratings won't show what percentage was outraged fans watching it and what were percentage was other people watching it. It will just show as RATINGS. Do you REALLY want to help them sell this crap? Let them fall on their own sword and DO NOT TUNE IN!!! PLEASE!! You will only achieve the opposite if you watch. There will be videos posted on YouTube. And quite honestly....what do you expect to find in the mockumentary that you need to see? Refrain from watching and just keep posting facts and correcting people if you see them talking about something that isn't accurate. There will be pleanty of things posted and we can just combat those with facts. No need to see that piiece of crap yourself.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I advice every fan to refrain from watching to NOT give them ratings! There are MLLIONS of MJ fans and that is EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE COUNTING ON to get them great ratings!!! They don't care if you're gonna watch because youre OUTRAGED. The ratings won't show what percentage was outraged fans watching it and what were percentage was other people watching it. It will just show as RATINGS. Do you REALLY want to help them sell this crap? Let them fall on their own sword and DO NOT TUNE IN!!! PLEASE!! You will only achieve the opposite if you watch. There will be videos posted on YouTube. And quite honestly....what do you expect to find in the mockumentary that you need to see? Refrain from watching and just keep posting facts and correcting people if you see them talking about something that isn't accurate. There will be pleanty of things posted and we can just combat those with facts. No need to see that piiece of crap yourself.

I don't have HBO, so I'm good. Even if they tried that free weekend, I still won't watch it
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

It's going to feel like "they" are winning because the doc is just being talked about, hasn't even been aired yet. It's hard to defend something that has not been seen and reviewed.. Yes we will feel the heat, yes we will get annoyed and deal with stressful situations.. BUT - they incriminate themselves in that documentary!

They put the documentary together in a sneaky clever way, gathering information from ************ to reitterate old stories and linking them to their claims (hearing a story often enough....) Just don't forget that Michael Jacksons life is highly documented
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

My money is on safechuck being the first to break. He will blame Wade and Reed for forcing him to lie for them, for the documentary. This might be one of the best things to happen to Michael in a strange way.

My money is on Dan Reed getting exposed and losing his credibilty. He is already looking like a fool considering the lies they all have been telling and that can easily be discredited with receipts. Problem is, even if Dan would throw Wade and James under the bus and blame them for lying to him....it would still make him look like a fool if he didn't do any fact checking and research before getting into this. Except....he knows EXACTLY what the deal is and is a willing participant. He knows it's all lies. He's in on the whole scam. Probably all arranged and orchestrated by HBO. Dan Reed obviously underestimated the intelligence and research skills of MJ fans though.
 
KOPV;4242017 said:
It's going to feel like "they" are winning because the doc is just being talked about, hasn't even been aired yet. It's hard to defend something that has not been seen and reviewed.. Yes we will feel the heat, yes we will get annoyed and deal with stressful situations.. BUT - they incriminate themselves in that documentary!

They put the documentary together in a sneaky clever way, gathering information from ************ to reitterate old stories and linking them to their claims (hearing a story often enough....) Just don't forget that Michael Jacksons life is highly documented

Yeah exactly.. but they’re literally saying the documentary doesn’t have any evidence only interviews in the media and still they don’t try even one thing to seek for the truth. We need to push them guys.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I've seen the trailer, that was more than enough for me.
 
mano;4242019 said:
Yeah exactly.. but they’re literally saying the documentary doesn’t have any evidence only interviews in the media and still they don’t try even one thing to seek for the truth. We need to push them guys.


Yeah, they will sit there with the agenda to pull people in by pulling people in emotionally to come up with a conclusion. The emotional responce from it plus the other stories being sold right now (Mcmanus back on the scene, the girl selling stories that she was molested as well) etc. It will look messy enough for some people to buy into it. (because people are lazy to do the research) SO until a rebuttle is released, we will have to do what we can.


PS. what is really known about this girl that is alleging this story?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

i guess people start searching for LN now on youtube and google. maybe we should upload all the evidences and lies we have as videos and documents upload to youtube with the full name of LN as if it was the real docu.
 
KOPV;4241882 said:
side comment, Remember how we were talking about how this doc was set to air the same week Weinstein's trial was going to start? Well it was delayed, so I guess Hollywood will need another distraction.. Oh wait, they delayed it until June, the month Michael passed!

I wonder what the headlines will be at that point!?

distractions.jpg


Usually, that means there is a truly great evil being hidden behind a certain story. But there are also the exceptions when a story made of light and beauty is being repressed by all kinds of vicious lies and darkness.

As many others have said here and in other places, the idea of a true conspiracy against Michael no longer feels far fetched and if Michael was once viewed as paranoid, even by some of the fans, I think we can safely say now that his ideas were very much based on reality. This current episode is just the latest in a quarter century long witch hunt. There is devious planning and execution behind this wave of infamy being thrown at Michael’s good name,,, yet again. What they fail to grasp is that the result will be the same – no matter how much they try, they cannot and will NOT destroy Michael, his legacy and the love so many people across the world have for him.

There has been, for over 25 years, an orchestrated effort to paint Michael Jackson into a monster of the worst possible type. Some of the people behind it (the likes of Sneddon and Evan Chandler) are gone, some of them have come out of the woodworks to get another shot at it (the Diane Diamonds and McMannuses of the world) and some new figures are trying to take the torch from where Sneddon ‘left off’ and was utterly defeated in the court of law, where it mattered, by Michael’s brilliant defense team.

The media has played a huge role in disseminating these lies and they should really be held accountable. So much of this heartache that we’ve all been forced to face again and again stems from the lack of accountability. The so-called press is free to slander, the dead and the undead, free to publish whatever bogus claims and tarnish the name of innocent people. Complete fraudsters, liars, thieves and 5th rate actors are paraded on TV screens as wannabe-victims, models of authenticity and moral upstanding. Neither category of slanderers should be allowed to get away with such things.

I am afraid that the only manner in which sanity can be restored and honor brought back to the once decent field of journalism can be through the sheer weight of the law. Not only should the presumption of innocence be upheld, but false accusers, trial-by-media and public defamation should be punishable by law, prohibited and criminalized. Only when the media and these leeches are threatened in their own profit margins and when their own freedom is on the line, only then will they think twice about spewing such ludicrous stories to poison the public.

Now more than ever perhaps, people are awakening to the media’s tricks and lies and question their motives, timings and, above all, the substance of their stories. In authentic democracies, a free and truly independent press should a true pillar, a force for good to hold accountable public officials and public figures when they truly endanger the public good. What the media has become over the last three decades has mostly been a propaganda machine, driven only by ratings, sensationalism and a most specific and quite possibly dark agenda. Therefore, we are left with a huge chasm between what the media ought to be and what it actually is. A change must and will come.

Thankfully, not even the media is a monolith, and among the current crop of media personalities and entities, there still are some brave voices. I can only salute them for their bravery, decency and courage and hope that in the future they will represent the majority. Unfortunately, their voices of sanity and reason are still being drowned out by the hysterical propaganda pieces. And I am not saying this as someone who deeply loves Michael and appreciates any tiny bit of truthful reporting about him (Roger Friedman, Forbes which allowed such a great article from Joe Vogel, Yahoo News which headlined Taj’s efforts). I am saying this as someone who appreciates truth, justice and fairness and the professionalism of people in any field.

In any case, I am convinced that the skepticism of the public towards most of the MSM will only increase and some of the most recent contrived scandals they’ve created only point to it. In between the Smollett twisted scenario and the latest news about the lawsuit against Washington Post by Nick Sandmann, I can only hope the media’s credibility sinks ever lower until they have no choice but to report that boring, annoying thing called truth, the truth about all those they’ve mercilessly slandered and smeared over the years, most especially about Michael.

The comments online are overwhelmingly in Michael’s favor and we must rejoice in that. I hope and think it will be the same even after that horrid mockumentary will air. I’ve said it before and I won’t tire of saying it – I trust the decency and the ability of people of good will to see through this insanity, especially when faced with the facts and all aspects of this charade. Although they may get to convince some of the gullible souls who eat up tabloid news and are easily offended at the latest Twitter storm, most people will not buy it quite as easily.


summer;4242013 said:
I advice every fan to refrain from watching to NOT give them ratings! There are MLLIONS of MJ fans and that is EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE COUNTING ON to get them great ratings!!! They don't care if you're gonna watch because youre OUTRAGED. The ratings won't show what percentage was outraged fans watching it and what were percentage was other people watching it. It will just show as RATINGS. Do you REALLY want to help them sell this crap? Let them fall on their own sword and DO NOT TUNE IN!!! PLEASE!! You will only achieve the opposite if you watch. There will be videos posted on YouTube. And quite honestly....what do you expect to find in the mockumentary that you need to see? Refrain from watching and just keep posting facts and correcting people if you see them talking about something that isn't accurate. There will be pleanty of things posted and we can just combat those with facts. No need to see that piiece of crap yourself.

Absolutely agree with summer, there’s no need whatsoever to provide them with ratings in order to know later the arguments to be used against them.

jarza;4241994 said:
I just saw a Finnish news article which said that HBO Nordic is not gonna add LN to their streaming service here in Finland :)

Fantastic news. I hope they stick with this decision and become an example for others. It truly is wonderful when media people/companies have the backbone to stand up to the mob mentality. Time may prove them to be not just morally right, but business-savvy. I dread the thought of local HBO/any other channel picking this crap up. Also, it should be interesting to see who will provide Taj, in the States and worldwide, with the TV/online platform for airing Michael’s side of the story. That should paint a rather accurate light on the media, its priorities and its true agenda. If they truly cared about truth and the bottom line, they would understand there’s much more profit to be made and far grater ratings from being decent and truthful in their reporting about Michael. We can’t actually dare expect them to be kind and understanding, it would actually be too much to ask.

If June 25th 2009 demonstrated anything, it is exactly that. People worldwide don’t care for the heinous accusations told by proven liars, but love Michael and his music and embrace his message of love, global harmony and brotherhood. But then again, if the media’s agenda is set and they don’t actually care about making money, since their financing and mission can possibly be quite dark, obviously they try their hardest to push the monster narrative. But try as they may, they won’t succeed in their twisted mission.

SIDEWALKS;4242004 said:
My money is on safechuck being the first to break. He will blame Wade and Reed for forcing him to lie for them, for the documentary. This might be one of the best things to happen to Michael in a strange way.

Some may consider you overly optimistic, but you may just be on to something there. I actually envisioned the Reed person turning against those two by claiming he was misled by their ‘convincing’ testimonies, presenting themselves as genuine victims, with him being a mere casualty and tool in their scheme, when in fact all he ever wanted to do was to help real victims. In any case, time will tell if, who and when will crack. One way or another, on this side of existence or on the other, the truth will catch up with them. It would however be much better for their souls and peace of mind if they recognized their mistakes while on earth.

May God have mercy on everyone from the false accusers to the media people pushing these lies, but above all may He have mercy on Michael’s beautiful soul and those who fight for him.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I've adopted a new way of trying to argue our case for MJ on social media. I've recognised that force feeding people with facts doesn't work. It causes people to instantly discredit you as you're considered the caricature portrayal of an insane MJ fan. You have to play the part of an uninformed member of the public, creating doubt by making sutble suggestions and leaving breadcrumbs of evidence for them to make their own conclusions. I've noticed that you're taken far more seriously and as you're considered somewhat neuteral so the barriers don't shoot up so quick. It's almost like someone forcing religion down your throat. Your instant reaction is to brickwall them.

Slight tip for those who feel like their fire fighting at the moment..

In saying that - the response so far to the trailer hasn't been as horrrific as I first imagined *staying optimistic*
 
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