Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Could someone clear up a couple of things for me, I know theres loads of info on here but I'm struggling to find an answer for these two things:

1. In 1993 there was a civil and criminal case going on at once right? A criminal case opened, meaning there was an investigation, but Michael was never criminally charged. Does this mean there was a jury looking at evidence? The reason I'm asking is some people use Chandlers penis description thing as their ultimate bit of proof. I've seen a police report thing that states it matched but was this Sneddon meddling in the whole thing? I've also heard that a jury saw all this and decided there wasn't enough evidence. I'm not entirely sure how this works, so a jury was being shown stuff? Someone said to me they settled out of court which means they never went to court thus a jury couldn't have seen it. I don't think this is right is it?

2. What was the timeline between the Bashir doc and Michael being arrested? Did Janet Arviso call someone and report abuse? On that Aphrodite Jones thing it seemed to imply that Sneddon just launched out with his search and arrest warrant after seeing the documentary alone.

There was a Grand Jury in 1993 through 1994 I think. Michael settled because he wanted the criminal trial to go before the Civil trial. The Chandlers wanted a civil trial.

I'm not as well versed as some fans about the allegations but I think what I typed in this response is correct.
 
RedMaryFlint;4248773 said:
Under the American legal system, you can be criminally charged in either of two ways: you can be indicted by a grand jury, or the prosecutor can directly file charges.

in 1993, a grand jury was convened to review the evidence. Jordan Chandler declined to testify, so the grand jury did not indict. There is nothing to return an indictment over, because it would all be second-hand evidence without an alleged victim to back it up. Likewise, the prosecutor could not directly file charges, as again, no victim.

As for Chandler’s supposed description, that particular piece of evidence has never been vetted, because he never appeared in court. There is only Sneddon’s claim that it matched, and frankly, if he said the sun rose in the east, I’d double check.

Ha! yeah that last bit was what I thought too. Funny a lot of people out there don't know about Sneddon. It does remind me of making a murderer...the greasy guy..Kratz? :puke:

Edit: ALSO someone brought up body language etc there. I read that another common characteristic of people who lie is that they go into too much detail to seem more believable. FUNNY THAT
 
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Karen Faye shared a new short part of Wade Robsons Police Interview of 1993.
He seames to be extreamly credible for me in all the three short parts I saw of this Interview!!
 
RedMaryFlint;4248773 said:
Under the American legal system, you can be criminally charged in either of two ways: you can be indicted by a grand jury, or the prosecutor can directly file charges.

in 1993, a grand jury was convened to review the evidence. Jordan Chandler declined to testify, so the grand jury did not indict. There is nothing to return an indictment over, because it would all be second-hand evidence without an alleged victim to back it up. Likewise, the prosecutor could not directly file charges, as again, no victim.

As for Chandler’s supposed description, that particular piece of evidence has never been vetted, because he never appeared in court. There is only Sneddon’s claim that it matched, and frankly, if he said the sun rose in the east, I’d double check.
Jordans "description" stated MJ was circumcised. The autopsy report proved otherwise. Case closed. I doubt jordan even made that drawing. It wouldnt surprise me if Evan did it himself.
Ive heard a rumor on here that jordan played MJs music after 93 at a party. Does anyone know about this?
 
Something I sometimes see mentioned by people in comment sections is that the first accuser, so Chandler, had already admitted that it was all a lie. But that's not true. I wonder where that originated from. I do recall a woman a long time ago I believe in a video claiming that Jordan had told her it was all lies. But that's not good enough.

It probably stems from that.



Last week when Corey stood up for Michael before he became all PC a day or two later I saw him receiving tons of crap messages on Twitter. That just because he hadn't been abused it didn't mean these men hadn't been either. Wasn't Brett Barnes also called to be in denial by idiots online? I recall that.

For some people MJ just can't win. No matter how many times he gets acquitted, no matter how many investigations, no matter that zero evidence was ever found...he will always be a p in the eye of some total ****ing numbskulls. Don't want anything to do with those people either.

Chandler saying nothing happened stems from the witnesses who were willing to testify against him in 03. Those who attened parties at his house etc. He said nothing happened and hated his parents.played mjs music and danced to it.
 
Could someone clear up a couple of things for me, I know theres loads of info on here but I'm struggling to find an answer for these two things:

1. In 1993 there was a civil and criminal case going on at once right? A criminal case opened, meaning there was an investigation, but Michael was never criminally charged. Does this mean there was a jury looking at evidence? The reason I'm asking is some people use Chandlers penis description thing as their ultimate bit of proof. I've seen a police report thing that states it matched but was this Sneddon meddling in the whole thing? I've also heard that a jury saw all this and decided there wasn't enough evidence. I'm not entirely sure how this works, so a jury was being shown stuff? Someone said to me they settled out of court which means they never went to court thus a jury couldn't have seen it. I don't think this is right is it?

2. What was the timeline between the Bashir doc and Michael being arrested? Did Janet Arviso call someone and report abuse? On that Aphrodite Jones thing it seemed to imply that Sneddon just launched out with his search and arrest warrant after seeing the documentary alone.

In 93 there was a grand jury. That is a prosecution tool to get someone charged. It is very much one sided as 99% of the time the jury only hears prosecution evidence. Theres a saying that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich because its so one sided. The GJ sat and heard evidence against mj but wouldnt indict because there was no phyical evidence against him. A member of the GJ comfirmed this. Ie no discription match. The drawing supposedly done by chandler is laughable. It looked like a mushroom .all it said was he had blotches which is an obvious thing to say due to mj having vitiligo. As others say he claimed mj was circumcised which was false.personally as with the stick men drawings they dont look like they were drawn by a 13 or so year old. Imo evan prob drew them trying to hard to make them look way too childlike

Bashir doc was feb the arrest in november. After it aired sneddon contacted the arvizos.he left a business card under their door. The family denied anything happened as we know. Later on sneddon met with janet in a L.A supermarket carpark (he claimed it was just a coincedence. Even though sneddon lived in santa B.Sneddon had to testify about this in a pre hearing) at this carpark meeting he gave janet all the documents needed to claim money from the victim support fund.(another coincedence he had all these docs in his car!) After this they agreed to help him and sneddon had a case and the arrest happened
 
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Dan Reed's tweets on twitter just show how out of his depth he is. Love how almost every post of his has responses from MJ fans, and they aren't the "crazy, extreme fans" he depicts in his documentary, they're people who keep providing facts and evidence pro-Michael. Reed just posted from the WikiLeaks thing. Guy has an intense hatred for Michael it is crazy.

Whys the idiot posting i presume the FBI docs. Hasnt he read them. They support mjs innocence. Fool
 
Berry gordys niece has put out a statement against robson. Does anyone have it as its on my F B but i can only see half of it and cant copy as i use f.b lite.(old phone) talking about joy contacting mjj prod for money etc
 
John Ziegler tweeted that he's disappointed in Harvey Levin from TMZ that he's siding with the two liars. Usually a smart man he says.

Let's go into that conspiracy theory for a sec. The other day we spoke about that tweet about a lawyer that claimed Oprah, Weinstein, Harvey Levin, Geffen and Gayle King funded LN.

Not saying it's true, we have no proof. But then it would make all the sense in the world that this time Levin isn't so smart,... on purpose.
 
We need a directory with quick facts for each accuser. Terry George is being brought up a lot and Google is pointing me to MJfacts.
 
Terry george is from my home city hes an attention seeker wannabe celeb. He met mj in 88 as a fan recorded some conversations. In 92 he tried to get to meet mj again but security stopped him. In 93 he was setting up a gay phone hotline and at that exact same time claimed he had had phone sex with mj inorder to promote it.my local paper called him out on it and revealed his new phone chat business at the same time. Of course he didnt record that convo but had all the others from 88! The fbi and police looked into his claims and found him to be a nutjob. His phone sex claims were in the sunday papers. He then denied it saying the tabloid threatened him with a story about himself but he claimed it was my friends who sold the story blah blah blah.

He was then in that louis theroux doc in 03 .when mj died he went on local news now claiming that he and mj were very good friends and had been planning to go into business together!
 
People are counting Jason Francia as an official accuser as well, quite frustrating. You can tell people have just done a quick google job, found some names from crappy articles and have come back thinking they have something. I didn't really know the extent of how the police were pushing these ideas on kids they interviewed. Are all these police interviews recorded? It's quite outrageous really. People should know this.
 
mjfan_93;4248815 said:
Guys. Don’t know if it has been reported but here in Germany Michael Jacobshagen is claiming that Michael molested him as a teen.

These sick liars are destoying his legacy. What can we do?

https://www.focus.de/panorama/diver...wuerfe-gegen-michael-jackson_id_10438661.html

7 months ago he was asking to participate with MJ Cast in MJ anniversary xD.
When Carol LaMere said " I am tired of people calling me to talk about Michael Jackson.and say mean things about him " it's not a joke.
 
mjfan_93;4248815 said:
Guys. Don’t know if it has been reported but here in Germany Michael Jacobshagen is claiming that Michael molested him as a teen.

These sick liars are destoying his legacy. What can we do?

https://www.focus.de/panorama/diver...wuerfe-gegen-michael-jackson_id_10438661.html

Oh no!!!
This is a differerent version of the story he told in the sunday night special.

In the sunday night special he didn't say anything about an erection of Michael in the bed, that he had kissed him on his neck, and that MJ sound like he would mastubate in the bathroom.

He is like Wade.

We should ask how much Jocobshagen did get for the interview of the "Bildzeitung", the Interview with the Sun and the Sunday Night special and this Radio interview someone shared two days ago.
Remember that Aron Carter said they offerd him money for specific interviews.
In the past other people also sold fake stories to the tabloids about Michael.

I think Jocobshagen has a connection to Dan Reed and is hiared from his team.
Cause he came forward directly one day after the sudance airing and the Sunday night reporter is a friend of Dan Reed as far as I have understand it.

Remember that after the anouncement of Leaving Neverland Dan Reed talked in a interview about a third accuser he had spoke to but won't come forward in the moment.
I think it was Jocobshagen.
A man who is easy to buy, has no pronlem to trash MJ and making money out of him after what we know about him in the past.

The Sun Interview was published one day after the airing of LN at sundance!

The australian Sunday Night Special with a very sweating Jocobshagen was aired one week before the airing on HBO.

Now were the defense of Michael gets stronger every day and debunk more and more lies Jocobshagens claimbs get more and more agressive and intensive.

There is a connection between him and Dan Reed I am sure.
He is a hourse in his sick chess game.

It is very sad that the fans who have talked with Jacobshagen in January didn't had the idea to record it.
 
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That ****ing loser Jacobshagen again? Jesus christ. Can that piece of vermin already just crawl back into his hole again.

I guess he wants some of that pathetic LN pie too. What a scumbag. I forgot, did he ever meet Michael at all?
 
Spent a few hrs with him in munich. Went to the circus show but that was it. Well documented by fans at the hotel. Tried to get back into the hotel but was refused.
 
I mean, I few days ago I thought this would only get more upsetting but its actually getting quite comical watching this all unfold. These people whoever they are, are showing their entitlement and mediocrity. They ACTUALLY went into this thinking they could just wing it? Cobble together some hearsay and tabloid rubbish and staple it onto the back of this 'documentary'. This is crumbling. I mean I argued last night with someone who is sure of Michael's guilt (was a stupid convo as usual) but even she doesn't believe Wade.
 
Spent a few hrs with him in munich. Went to the circus show but that was it. Well documented by fans at the hotel. Tried to get back into the hotel but was refused.

We need a special team now on the front with YouTubers who specially occupy themself mostly with the Jocobshagen case to silent him and exposed him very quckly.

It was a mistake that we have ignore this case mostly since January.

Maybe someone can create a not public facebookgroup which can work on this.

You can find old users in the Jocobshagen Thread in the beginning who semed to know much about him.
Maybe you can reach them when you send them messages.
I don't know if you get E-mails when you send personal massages to forum members.

This seames to be not the case.
 
see here

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...n-murder-dead-paris-jacobshagen-a7722876.html


[FONT=&quot]One of Michael Jackson’s close friends has revealed the singer sent letters predicting his own murder just weeks before dying from a drug overdose. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Michael Jacobshagen — a 34-year-old businessman who was friends with Jackson for two decades — claimed the pop star wrote 13 letters that included phrases such as “They are trying to murder me” and “I am scared about my life.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Speaking to Daphne Barak for Australian TV show Sunday Night, Jacobshagen said, via the Daily Mail: “He was in emotional meltdown saying ‘they are going to murder me’.”

Jacobshagen was in Germany when Jackson called, asking for him to fly to LA where they spent three days together and Jackson handed over the letters.

While the notes never clarified who ‘they’ were, they mention concert promoters AEG who, at the time, were organising Jackson’s London O2 residency. One apparently said: “AEG. Make so much pressure to me… I’m scared about my life.”

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jackson’s cause of death was an overdose of the sedative propofol, with his doctor, Conrad Murray, serving two years prison sentence after being found guilty of involuntary manslaughter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The singer’s daughter, Paris, recently claimed Jackson was murdered, Jacobshagen saying he’s come forward with the letters now to support her position. [/FONT]
 
This might not be as bad as feared, BUT in no way do I see anything good in this situation.

Many people actually think MJ is guilty - also people who didn't think so before. So that's devastating. We see boycuts and people taking distance to MJ...

This is all very bad and very depressing - and no matter how great a doc Taj, The Estate or anyone else makes it will never make things good again. Some people will believe those 2 "#CK"#s no matter how much they have lied etc. - so a counter-doc will not really help much I'm affraid. - I still think and hope a doc will be made to defend MJ - and can some see the light and believe MJ is innocent it's great. - But the media will never give it as much attention so most will never hear about a such doc I fear...

The only thing that could help wan Jordan Chandler and Gavin Arvizo - and maybe Wade and Safechuck to admit they lied... - and that will never ever happen.
 
marc_vivien;4248833 said:
see here

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...n-murder-dead-paris-jacobshagen-a7722876.html


[FONT="]One of [URL="https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/MichaelJackson"]Michael Jackson[/URL]’s close friends has revealed the singer sent letters predicting his own murder just weeks before dying from a drug overdose. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Michael Jacobshagen — a 34-year-old businessman who was friends with Jackson for two decades — claimed the pop star wrote 13 letters that included phrases such as “They are trying to murder me” and “I am scared about my life.”[/FONT][/COLOR]
[CENTER][COLOR=#281E1E][FONT="][/FONT]
[/CENTER]
[FONT="]Speaking to Daphne Barak for Australian TV show Sunday Night, Jacobshagen said, via the [I][URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4480916/They-trying-murder-Michael-Jackson-letters-death.html"]Daily Mail[/URL][/I]: “He was in emotional meltdown saying ‘they are going to murder me’.”

Jacobshagen was in Germany when Jackson called, asking for him to fly to LA where they spent three days together and Jackson handed over the letters.

While the notes never clarified who ‘they’ were, they mention concert promoters AEG who, at the time, were organising Jackson’s London O2 residency. One apparently said: “AEG. Make so much pressure to me… I’m scared about my life.”

[/FONT]

[FONT="]Jackson’s cause of death was an overdose of the sedative propofol, with his doctor, Conrad Murray, serving two years prison sentence after being found guilty of involuntary manslaughter.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#281E1E][FONT="]The singer’s daughter, Paris, recently claimed Jackson was murdered, Jacobshagen saying he’s come forward with the letters now to support her position. [/FONT]

and I can't believe this story too.
One of Michael Jackson’s close friends xD
 
What frustrates me the most is that there’s a other side to this whole thing that might never come out proving Michael’s innocence. I hate that his supporters hands are tied and they are called names and ridiculed while his haters and accusers are allowed to run down his legacy while also influencing other people’s opinions of him left and right. I don’t have much faith anymore. The powers that be have made (at least almost) sure that the negative versions of the Michael Jackson saga will be the final word on him. This shouldn’t be after everything he went through during his life and what his fans are going through right now. We (and Michael, in life and now posthumously), have weathered too many storms for things to end like this and it’s bad enough that Michael died with that stain on his character in the first place. News articles are constantly talking about the fallout from LN now saying things about how people all over the world are dropping Michael Jackson faster than a hot potato and his legacy is finished. The situation gets worse and worse. Something huge would have to happen to restore his good name at this point. All the years things like this have gone on and even with Michael’s 2005 acquittal, there’s still a whole part to the story of his innocence that will never be told. I hate to be doom and gloom here. But I’m just tired of the continuing crap that surrounds him all the time. And I don’t see any way out.
 
marc_vivien;4248833 said:
see here

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...n-murder-dead-paris-jacobshagen-a7722876.html


[FONT=&quot]One of Michael Jackson’s close friends has revealed the singer sent letters predicting his own murder just weeks before dying from a drug overdose. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Michael Jacobshagen — a 34-year-old businessman who was friends with Jackson for two decades — claimed the pop star wrote 13 letters that included phrases such as “They are trying to murder me” and “I am scared about my life.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Speaking to Daphne Barak for Australian TV show Sunday Night, Jacobshagen said, via the Daily Mail: “He was in emotional meltdown saying ‘they are going to murder me’.”

[/FONT]

So its obvious that Jocobshagen sold storys about MJ to Sunday Night is using his fake letters.
He ask Kathrine Jackson for her permission to make this letters public but she refused to do this.

Remember that it was intresting that the handwriting expert didn't analysis Jocobshagens letters which were shown in the Sunday night special and the handwhriting which were in the book on the page with the naked boy and the arrows.

He only said that the handwhriting on the titlepage was Michaels.
Which not paid analysist whould do this?
We should check if the person really is an expert of this subject.

Sunday night also didn't analysis the letters in 2016.

When there is an connection between Dan Reed and Jacobshagen we should question some of the faxes which were used in LN.
 
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elusive moonwalker;4248828 said:
Spent a few hrs with him in munich. Went to the circus show but that was it. Well documented by fans at the hotel. Tried to get back into the hotel but was refused.

Was Jacobshagen some kind of important person then, for Mike to chill and hang around with? If he only knew what kind of snake he turned out to be.

marc_vivien;4248833 said:
see here

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...n-murder-dead-paris-jacobshagen-a7722876.html


[FONT=&quot]One of Michael Jackson’s close friends has revealed the singer sent letters predicting his own murder just weeks before dying from a drug overdose. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Michael Jacobshagen — a 34-year-old businessman who was friends with Jackson for two decades — claimed the pop star wrote 13 letters that included phrases such as “They are trying to murder me” and “I am scared about my life.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Speaking to Daphne Barak for Australian TV show Sunday Night, Jacobshagen said, via the Daily Mail: “He was in emotional meltdown saying ‘they are going to murder me’.”

Jacobshagen was in Germany when Jackson called, asking for him to fly to LA where they spent three days together and Jackson handed over the letters.

While the notes never clarified who ‘they’ were, they mention concert promoters AEG who, at the time, were organising Jackson’s London O2 residency. One apparently said: “AEG. Make so much pressure to me… I’m scared about my life.”

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jackson’s cause of death was an overdose of the sedative propofol, with his doctor, Conrad Murray, serving two years prison sentence after being found guilty of involuntary manslaughter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The singer’s daughter, Paris, recently claimed Jackson was murdered, Jacobshagen saying he’s come forward with the letters now to support her position. [/FONT]

Hold on. So now he's this? Which isn't necessarily anti MJ, but in other articles he claims abuse?
 
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