Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tom Mesereau Reacts to HBO's Leaving Neverland | Law &amp; Crime <a href="https://t.co/88HgSMKluy">https://t.co/88HgSMKluy</a></p>&mdash; Charles Thomson (@CEThomson) <a href="https://twitter.com/CEThomson/status/1120770875949817856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 23, 2019</a></blockquote>
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What is Alicia gonna say now? Can anybody please PM me the contact information of Alicia or The Estate? Thx!

This shit would only happen to Michael. WTF are the estate thinking? It really seems like nobody gives a f*ck about him that has anything to do with the business side of things! So frustrating!
 
<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here&#8217;s the column on my discussion with famed attorney Tom Mesereau which includes a video of the 1st 1/2 hour of our 45 minute interview, his 1st of its kind since <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LeavingNeverland?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LeavingNeverland</a> aired on HBO. The rest will be released on my next podcast. Please share! <a href="https://t.co/5pwVcHem2V">https://t.co/5pwVcHem2V</a></p>&mdash; John Ziegler (@Zigmanfreud) <a href="https://twitter.com/Zigmanfreud/status/1120755483814481920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 23, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

Like and share this if you can. John deserves it.
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Wade Robsons THE ACTOR






And for the last two parts I can give you the link to the videos

https://youtu.be/JXBnx_s1XQI

https://youtu.be/x6wCq9lnkro


Thanks to the MJFan "Gypsy Taylor" on YouTube

She has collected thia ALL under this one link in one of your playlists:


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLppAR_5Q8Tj7yUofY8ePs2pMvRT2mzjP-

I think in the first video it is not difficult to reconize him.
His name appears in then in the second and in the fourth video.

I would like to know how old he is.

Do you think this is all Wade in this videos?
I am not sure if he is it the second one.
But in the other ones I am sure!

How old do you think is he in these videos?
 
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This is Wade trying to make Hip Hop in 1994


I know someone here was searching for this video.
Details about it are in the description.

"Quo was a short-lived rap group composed of Wade Robson (born 1982) and DeWayne Turrentine jr (born 1981) they were the first artist signed to Michael Jackson's Epic Records sub-label, MJJ Music The duo came together in 1993 in 1994 Quo released their single "Huh What" Produced by RED MAN Followed by there 2nd single "Blowin' Up (Don't Stop the Music produced by Teddy Riley)", which became a hip hop hit, charting on both the Hot Rap Songs and the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs charts. On October 25, 1994, the duo's self-titled album was released. The following year, a 3rd single, "Quo Funk," was released, which heavily sampled The Jacksons' "This Place Hotel,"Produced by Battlecat. Quo Funk Charted #2 on the Bubbling Under R&B/Hip-Hop Singles. After "Quo Funk," the duo disbanded, with Robson becoming a successful choreographer, producer, and actor; Turrentine became a successful international super model, producer, and actor. Turrentine also married actress Reagan Gomez and has two children with Gomez, a daughter named Scarlett Annette Turrentine (born May 14, 2007,) and son named Tyger Attila Turrentine (born April 2, 2011)."

It was mention in LN?
 
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Oh ..... great idea with this new forum section.
Thank you very much!!!

I think we lost twitter posts....

Yeah Tweet embeds got broken somehow. Hopefully Gaz and crew can fix it.

And I just wanna reiterate how sad I am about the Broadway show stuff. The one big shining bright project in all of this and now there's a high chance it's going to be ruined. Maybe we'll get lucky and these writers will leave the shit out, or they'll scrap the project altogether, but I've never been a hopeful person... sigh...
 
Heard the latest? Michael Jacobshagen is now trying to purchase expensive collectibles such as original Michael Jackson Awards from collectors. He once purchased a copy of 'The Boy' and claimed he had gotten it from Michael. That's exactly what he's trying to achieve again.

He's currently working on his own "documentary" scheduled to be released in June. The German fraudster claims it'll produce about 20 "witnesses" and "incriminating videos" showing "Michael in the act".

As untrustworthy and uncredible as he is, some already do believe him; I've encountered one of those folks online who totally believes MJ called Jacobshagen "Rubba Rubba boy" in bed...

That's why Jacobshagen should not be underestimated. We do know he's a total con, but many would believe him the same way they automatically believed ROBson & SafeCHECK. That's why Jacobshagen ought to be stopped NOW!

RECEIPTS: https://twitter.com/santikapowski/status/1120795050978500608
 
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Okay what is happening with the Estate and Alicia? I havent been hete for a while. Can someone give me a quick sunmary?
 
Even though the ratings for LN was a flop, the discussion of it had far-reaching impact. Damage has been done to Michael's legacy, no doubt. But I don't think it is irreparable. I maintain that a part of the repair has to be done by us as fans - how we honour Michael. Even as things continue to die down, we have to press on.

I feel we need to press on with talking in a positive way about Michael and not just reacting to LN and its crap! What are we going to do to mark the 10th anniversary of his passing? We can make sure that there are more roses than ever at Forest Lawn. We can celebrate his generosity, his music and his performances on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube.

I am little calmer as it relates to Nottage et al, but I still feel that if they are not willing to do real MEANINGFUL research about the allegations, they need to go.

Sure, show Michael as 'flawed', 'complex' but do not entertain the notion that he may be a child molesting monster and do not treat him like an abstract or present him as you imagine him to have been.
 
@Doggone, the writers of the Michael Jackson Broadway Show, Christopher Wheeldon & Lynn Nottage, believe there is a STRONG possibility Michael Jackson was a PEDOCRIMINAL, and they believe Leaving Neverland to be "very believable" in spite of the fact it's been thoroughly debunked!

Alicia (spokesperson for the Estate?) doesn't even care and even attempted to defend Nottage, saying the Daily Mail article was bollocks and shaming the fans for believing it when it's true! Nottage has now confirmed her Daily Mail quotes are indeed hers in a new interview for The New York Times. As for the Estate, it doesn't look like they are bothered that those two people write the Michael Jackson Broadway Show, yet they expect to win their lawsuit against HBO?
 
Heard the latest? Michael Jacobshagen is now trying to purchase expensive collectibles such as original Michael Jackson Awards from collectors. He once purchased a copy of 'The Boy' and claimed he had gotten it from Michael. That's exactly what he's trying to achieve again.

He's currently working on his own "documentary" scheduled to be released in June. The German fraudster claims it'll produce about 20 "witnesses" and "incriminating videos" showing "Michael in the act".

As untrustworthy and uncredible as he is, some already do believe him; I've encountered one of those folks online who totally believes MJ called Jacobshagen "Rubba Rubba boy" in bed...

That's why Jacobshagen should not be underestimated. We do know he's a total con, but many would believe him the same way they automatically believed ROBson & SafeCHECK. That's why Jacobshagen ought to be stopped NOW!

RECEIPTS: https://twitter.com/santikapowski/status/1120795050978500608
People who believe this fool ALREADY believe the lies long before.
 
**** the Estate. They've been pathetic from day 1. I'm officially done with them.

When do the children take over?
 
This is Wade trying to make Hip Hop in 1994


I know someone here was searching for this video.
Details about it are in the description.

"Quo was a short-lived rap group composed of Wade Robson (born 1982) and DeWayne Turrentine jr (born 1981) they were the first artist signed to Michael Jackson's Epic Records sub-label, MJJ Music The duo came together in 1993 in 1994 Quo released their single "Huh What" Produced by RED MAN Followed by there 2nd single "Blowin' Up (Don't Stop the Music produced by Teddy Riley)", which became a hip hop hit, charting on both the Hot Rap Songs and the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs charts. On October 25, 1994, the duo's self-titled album was released. The following year, a 3rd single, "Quo Funk," was released, which heavily sampled The Jacksons' "This Place Hotel,"Produced by Battlecat. Quo Funk Charted #2 on the Bubbling Under R&B/Hip-Hop Singles. After "Quo Funk," the duo disbanded, with Robson becoming a successful choreographer, producer, and actor; Turrentine became a successful international super model, producer, and actor. Turrentine also married actress Reagan Gomez and has two children with Gomez, a daughter named Scarlett Annette Turrentine (born May 14, 2007,) and son named Tyger Attila Turrentine (born April 2, 2011)."

It was mention in LN?

This is the second video "Blowing up ( Don't stop the music)" what Wade and his buddy made under Michaels wings and his Music Label with the help of Teddy Riley


So it was not just only a Hip Hop video where Wade participaed in like Wade claims and downplayed it. It was a much bigger project what MJ trough his music label finanzed for Wade with a whole album!

The album you can find here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCutyQqRO4IEeHDAbLiCfql4vvT8LAGzQ

This is the third single "Quo Funk" from 1995 what did hurt me when I just hear the beginning and got angry.


Is this like a victim whould behave?
Why didn't fit this in LN?
 
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I honestly don't believe anybody would be interested in a book by Wade and/or James. The only folks interested in purchasing a book about MJ, would be MJ Fans, in my opinion and MJ fans ain't giving their hard earned money to neither James nor Wade.

Speaking of MJ related books: Wade submitted TWO manuscripts to a variety of publishers, to which all were denied. I'm guessing that the second manuscript added more salacious "stories," but still it was denied.

I would love to know why both manuscripts were denied, by not just one publisher, but a variety of publishers said: NO THANKS!!!!
Plus LN was a flop as well, despite the ENORMOUS promotion it got.

That's why this whole Nottage fiasco doesn't make any sense at all: fans won't watch it that's for sure, the general public may choose to watch an MJ celebration as a feel-good program, but certainly won't if the focus is something sinister. Only haters remain as possible public, but they aren't enough to fill a theather (and are only vocal anonymously behind their monitors anyway). No rational business venture can see this as profitable.

Even though the ratings for LN was a flop, the discussion of it had far-reaching impact. Damage has been done to Michael's legacy, no doubt. But I don't think it is irreparable. I maintain that a part of the repair has to be done by us as fans - how we honour Michael. Even as things continue to die down, we have to press on.
Unfortunately this is right, but it wasn't the public general reaction (most didn't even care) and it's frightening to see how it's being artificially pushed by some powerful forces.

I'm more and more convinced that (apart from the simple fact that "sensationalism sells") MJ is also being used as a universal scapegoat to deflect from the crimes of MANY powerful individuals, and it goes back for decades now (and I didn't believe MJ when he talked about conspiracy, but what's happening ever since his death is just inexplicable, and watching this corporate media machine in motion is frightening). I don't want to sound desperate, but the force we are against often seems unconquerable. Everytime something turns in MJ's favour they counterattack with full force and their resources are infinite.
 
If the two writers of the broadway show are not interested in their subject matter enough to follow the news about Leaving Neverland then they shouldn't be involved in the show. It's been one of the biggest media scandals of this year and they appear to be completely unaware that many claims in the show have been proven inaccurate. It's worse than that though, because actually many of the claims were debunked long before the show was broadcast, and the civil case was rejected in 2017.

These two writers should be fully aware of the allegations and should be able to speak with authority on why they should not be taken at face value. Instead they seem more aligned to the claims than the rebuttals.

After the Daily Mail article the MJ Estate should have stepped in and made them VERY AWARE of the rebuttal information so they could be more supportive of MJ in case there were any follow-up interviews. If that happened then it didn't show in the NY Times article.

The MJ Estate failed MJ and his the fans with the dismissive Twitter from Alicia, which chastised the fan community for speaking out against Nottage. As it turns out, the fan concerns WERE justified after all! If they don't dismiss these two fools they will have failed again.

The broadway show appears to be documenting the Dangerous era - the time period in which the alleged but fictitious abuse took place - so they'll need to address them in some way. BUT if the allegations are included in any way and are not refuted categorically during the show then it will be an insult to MJ, his fans, and the truth. The show should leave NO DOUBT at all that MJ was falsely accused. The manipulative and inaccurate media narrative should not be allowed to shape the form of an official Broadway production. It's just not acceptable.
 
And what ticks me off is when people like MJ go through what he went through even having people admit their lies on the stand, get cleared and there are people still trying to debate him as maybe might be guilty, that is wrong. Then what the $%% is the purpose for our justice system? These guys are PROVEN LIARS even the LN is debunk (these liars are trying to win an appeal). I will keep saying it, THIS IS DANGEROUS FOR ALL OF US in AMERICA.
Bingo. I can't believe so many people (including "woke", influential, journalist or whatever) fail to see the dangers of this situation.
 
If the two writers of the broadway show are not interested in their subject matter enough to follow the news about Leaving Neverland then they shouldn't be involved in the show. It's been one of the biggest media scandals of this year and they appear to be completely unaware that many claims in the show have been proven inaccurate. It's worse than that though, because actually many of the claims were debunked long before the show was broadcast, and the civil case was rejected in 2017.

These two writers should be fully aware of the allegations and should be able to speak with authority on why they should not be taken at face value. Instead they seem more aligned to the claims than the rebuttals.

After the Daily Mail article the MJ Estate should have stepped in and made them VERY AWARE of the rebuttal information so they could be more supportive of MJ in case there were any follow-up interviews. If that happened then it didn't show in the NY Times article.

The MJ Estate failed MJ and his the fans with the dismissive Twitter from Alicia, which chastised the fan community for speaking out against Nottage. As it turns out, the fan concerns WERE justified after all! If they don't dismiss these two fools they will have failed again.

The broadway show appears to be documenting the Dangerous era - the time period in which the alleged but fictitious abuse took place - so they'll need to address them in some way. BUT if the allegations are included in any way and are not refuted categorically during the show then it will be an insult to MJ, his fans, and the truth. The show should leave NO DOUBT at all that MJ was falsely accused. The manipulative and inaccurate media narrative should not be allowed to shape the form of an official Broadway production. It's just not acceptable.

Amen! Amen! This show is being paid for in effect by Michael Jackson. If it touches on the lies at all, it should be to reflect they are lies. No way should his monies be used to support the ambivalence of writers who are not even doing the very basics in gathering info to know that the allegations and that documentary are pure fiction.
 
Article in 'Moviemaker' about Reed's 'making of LN'...including all the 'research' he did!

(The article discusses 3 films, so I have extracted just the LN parts).

Journalism Plus: How Hail Satan?, The Brink, and Leaving Neverland Blend Truth-Seeking With Cinematic Storytelling


For Leaving Neverland, Reed contacted Robson and Safechuck through their lawyers. &#8220;I made my request and I think Wade and James discussed it for a while with their wives and their families and with the lawyers, as well,&#8221; says Reed. &#8220;By the time I got to meet them, I think they had decided in principle to take part. It wasn&#8217;t the usual process of convincing a documentary subject.&#8221;

The only ground rule Reed set was that neither Robson or Safechuck or their lawyers would have any editorial control.
Reed says it quickly became obvious that Leaving Neverland would require extensive sit-down interviews with the films&#8217; subjects.
Though the interviews span an 18-month period, the bulk of Leaving Neverland was shot during five days in February, 2017: three days interviewing Robson in a log cabin in Hawaii and two days interviewing James in a house in Los Angeles.

&#8220;I reserved the right to film observational material. But very quickly, this became a film about the testimony and the human voice and the face, the drama of speech. It&#8217;s a film about people speaking a truth that is very difficult to articulate,&#8221; says Reed.
Like Klayman, Reed served as DP on Leaving Neverland, partially to put his subjects at ease and partially for practical reasons. &#8220;There&#8217;s a huge advantage in terms of flexibility and responsiveness. If you have your own equipment, you just pick up and go. You don&#8217;t need to worry about a huge crew and when they&#8217;re going to have lunch,&#8221; he says.

Documentary films rely on many of the same techniques as journalism, but moviemaking is more reliant on the craft of storytelling than breaking news. Still, when making a film about life-and-death issues and topics that are controversial enough to provoke anger (including death threats), there&#8217;s a great responsibility for moviemakers to get their facts right.

When a commissioning editor at Channel 4 in England suggested that Reed investigate controversy surrounding Michael Jackson, Reed hired a researcher, who dug into past allegations and scoured the internet, including fan forums, for leads in the story. The researcher came upon references to Robson and Safechuck, which piqued Reed&#8217;s interest.

Before taking their stories as fact, Reed interviewed former detectives and prosecutors from the two principal investigations into Jackson. He shot interviews with the LAPD and the Santa Barbara Sheriff&#8217;s Department, which had investigated Jackson, as well as the deputy DA, who was the main prosecutor in the 2005 trial. He considered making a straightforward investigative documentary using the footage, but decided to craft the film primarily out of the interviews with Robson and Safechuck and their families.

When making a film about a controversial subject, Reed suggests that moviemakers record a master interview with their subjects to check for discrepancies in their stories. Reed devoured court records from the trials as well as any statements he could find from people who had worked in the Jackson household at the time of the alleged abuse.
&#8220;Try to corroborate everything you can. Spend as much time as you can trying to pick holes in it, trying to undermine it, trying to find cracks in it. If, by the end of that process, your subject&#8217;s story still stands up, then you have a winner,&#8221; he says. After double-checking Robson and Safechuck&#8217;s accounts, Reed says he didn&#8217;t find anything that contradicted their descriptions of the sexual abuse.

Though he insisted on fact-checking, Reed felt no compunction to include a response from Jackson&#8217;s family or lawyers. Reed says his film isn&#8217;t about Jackson, but about the two families whose lives were affected by his behavior.

All three films made sure to have lawyers vetting everything early on. &#8220;Most of my films, for better or worse, are legally contentious in some way,&#8221; says Reed, whose films include Three Days of Terror: The Charlie Hebdo Attacks and Terror at the Mall. &#8220;We always have a lot of conversations with lawyers because often times the films we make piss someone off, since we&#8217;re coming out with a truth that someone doesn&#8217;t want to hear or a story that someone wants to keep hidden.&#8221;

Since a deceased person can&#8217;t be libeled (per U.S. and U.K. law), that wasn&#8217;t a concern in the case of Michael Jackson. But Reed says they were sure to &#8220;cross every &#8216;t&#8217; and dot every &#8216;i&#8217; &#8221; to prevent legal issues. Though the film doesn&#8217;t feature interviews with anyone from Jackson&#8217;s camp, Reed was certain to include rebuttals and statements of his innocence by Jackson and his legal team. Jackson&#8217;s heirs have sued HBO, the film&#8217;s distributor, demanding $100 million in damages.
Reed was able to use footage of Jackson concerts, videos, and commercials due to fair use law.

Reed says he was sure to let his subjects know they could take a pause for a snack of a bathroom break. But in general, his rule is to keep the camera running and decide what to cut in the editing room.


He recalls one moment where Robson&#8217;s brother Shane broke down during an interview.

&#8220;He had tears in his eyes and he became very emotional. There was a lot of debate between the editor and me about how long we should stay on that,&#8221; says Reed.
Reed acknowledges that &#8220;it&#8217;s disturbing when people are upset in front of you, but sometimes those are the very times when you need to keep filming and remind yourself that you&#8217;re there to witness and your main job is not to co-experience.&#8221;

This article appears in MovieMaker&#8217;s Spring 2019 issue.

https://www.moviemaker.com/archives/news/journalism-plus-hail-satan-leaving-neverland-the-brink/
 
"Reed was able to use footage of Jackson concerts, videos, and commercials due to fair use law"

I am sure stole everthing he used in LN from MJFans who had uploaded it on YouTube, would never have wanted it to be in LN and Reed didn't ask for any permission to do that.
Yeah I know the fans had not the rights on that footage but I am sure Reed didn't ask any of the original rightsowner for the permission to use their footage.
We already know this from some cases.

"When a commissioning editor at Channel 4 in England suggested that Reed investigate controversy surrounding Michael Jackson, Reed hired a researcher, who dug into past allegations and scoured the internet, including fan forums, for leads in the story. The researcher came upon references to Robson and Safechuck, which piqued Reed’s interest."

This is veery interesting for me.

Who were this resarcher(s) Reed hiared?

It semed to be very biased people when it comes to Michael Jackson that they were willing to work for Reed.

Are they maybe the paid influencer we came accross sometimes after LN?

That they were active in fanforums is very interesting!!!

Have they something to do with the group in "The pedophile Hunter" Reed maybe stays in contact since then?

Where is the basis from where they operate together and exchange the informations with Dan Reed and since when did this basis exist and is it sill existing now?

That the basis and the group still exists now and is connected with Dan Reed sugests the activity from MJfacts/ MJandboys which suddenly woke up arround the 10th Jannuary during the sundance premier of LN and the activty of MJvictims got all this very intersting interviews including the one with this FBI agent Jim Clemente as such a small channel.
Is there money and Dan Reeds connections behind these activitys?

It is interesting that MJfacts / MJandboys semed to have deleated nearly all the comments on their block page before January 10 2019.
I am not compleatly sure but I guess I saw old commets under the articles from the last years when I had visited the page in January/ Febuary.

"The researcher came upon references to Robson and Safechuck, which piqued Reed’s interest."

The connection we already know from resarcher who had a connection with Wade and James is MJFacts cause Wade had people linked to them right?

The first video they have uploaded on their YouTube channel was on July 2 2013!

Wade was on the Today Show at May 16 2013!

The Oprah interview with Wade and James is now also delated from their channel.
I was wondering why it could only stay there for so long.
 
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"Reed was able to use footage of Jackson concerts, videos, and commercials due to fair use law"

I am sure stole everthing he used in the documntery from MJFans who had uploaded it on YouTube and would never have wanted it to be in LN and didn't ask for any permission to do that.
Yeah I know the fans had not the rights on that footage but I am sure Reed did 't ask any of the original Rights for the permission to use their footage.
We already know this from some cases.

I don't understand that fair use law at all then. I mean you have to pay for the use of the song Happy Brithday, and Reed could just use MJ footage. Makes me sick.
 
I really hope the Estate hires Tom to defend MJ against the extortionist’s lawsuits&#128591;&#127995;
 
So someone from Channel 4 suggest he do this? No wonder they/HBO did not back down. Now they look stupid. INVESTIGATE? Clearly not or this fool would have all the evidence we are showing.
 
INVESTIGATE? Clearly not or this fool would have all the evidence we are showing.

In my opinion, they THOUGHT by attaching Oprah "The Snake" Winfrey to the mockumentary folks would just accept it in its entirety, no questions asked.

They played themselves, when they underestimated MJ's fans and the number of casual fans who decided to do a little research on their own. I continue to be impressed when I visit different COMMENT SECTIONS across the internet, wherein folks are discussing how they looked a little deeper and found out things they never knew regarding MJ and the 2 Liars.

Like Taj always says: "If you have time to watch a 4 hour mockumentary, you can take 30 minutes to do a little research."

Sometimes I don't even read the article, I just go directly to the COMMENT SECTION. LOL.
 
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