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Coroners Report released - GRAPHIC CONTENT (Threads merged)

AllForMJ said:
It's really a trip how Quincy goes around telling the other recording artists to check their egos at the door all while he does the total opposite of that.

Someone should send him the sections of the autopsy report that will show him that MJ was not lying to him and had no reason to lie to him.

Also, the more that we hear about the various things that MJ endured, the more we should be amazed with him. He really overcame a lot of obstacles and many of them were very, very painful. He dealt with a lot of emotional pain and physical pain all while continuing to give the world the best of what he had to offer.

If anyone can teach people about not giving up on themselves and reaching for better things in life no matter what may come your way, Michael Jackson can, and he has. He taught by example.
:yes:
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I agree! Well said! :clapping:
 
Soundmind said:
yeah , I can only imagine MJ's face when he knew he sold 800.000 tickets in less than four hours with no promotion , with nothing , he only gave a press conference four days prior to that and BAM . He knew he was still LOVED AND APPRECIATED and people were willing to say THANK YOU MICHAEL .:)
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So true...so true...so true! Aren't you glad that we did not stop believing in MJ? We all stayed at the side of the good guy in this matter. He did not pretend to be something that he wasn't. He was what we saw. He was a true go-getter! He was the real McCoy! He was a good man. He's still a good man.

:yes:
 
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AllForMJ said:
So true...so true...so true! Aren't you glad that we did not stop believing in MJ? We all stayed at the side of the good guy in this matter. He did not pretend to be something that he wasn't. He was what we saw. He was a true go-getter! He was the real McCoy! He was a good man. He's still a good man.

:yes:
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Yes :yes:, He was and will always be GOOD Michael :D . I'm proud becuase I believed in him when he was alive and even after he died I did not rush to judge him . I owe that man alot . Thank you Michael .
 
esther1972 said:
I already said in another post that murray admitted he give 25mg propofol...so him admitting isn't the problem...it's the dose Michael had in his body...Although many of you seem to take murray's admitting 25mg as admitting he give it all...I'm not saying i take murray's word for it not at all, cause i really believe he give way more...but they will also have to proof that Murray give more than he admitted...
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Oh.. O.K. now I understand, thanks for explaining
 
While we are watching this case, it seems like we will have to remind ourselves that the person prosecuting this case is not Sneddon. Much of what Sneddon took MJ through was to show MJ that he could make his life miserable at the drop of a hat.

He did not have those handcuffs placed on MJ because he truly felt that MJ was a criminal. He only had them placed on MJ to show him that he could.

He did not have all of those members of law enforcement go to Neverland because he felt that MJ was going to run, because he already knew that MJ was in Las Vegas. He only sent all of those people there to show MJ that he could. He just wanted to show MJ that he could do whatever he wanted. It was a total abuse of authority. In addition to defending MJ, Mesereau was also pointing out that Sneddon was abusing his authority.

Everyone that took part in invading Michael's beautiful home, Neverland, should be ashamed of themselves. He was not a monster. He was far from it.

This Christmas video is an example of what Michael Jackson is all about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZk0dQrxiw0

This type of kindness cannot be faked.
 
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AllForMJ said:
While we are watching this case, it seems like we will have to remind ourselves that the person prosecuting this case is not Sneddon. Much of what Sneddon took MJ through was to show MJ that he could make his life miserable at the drop of a hat.

He did not have those handcuffs placed on MJ because he truly felt that MJ was a criminal. He only had them placed on MJ to show him that he could.

He did not have all of those members of law enforcement go to Neverland because he felt that MJ was going to run, because he already knew that MJ was in Las Vegas. He only sent all of those people there to show MJ that he could. He just wanted to show MJ that he could do whatever he wanted. It was a total abuse of authority. In addition to defending MJ, Mesereau was also pointing out that Sneddon was abusing his authority.
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:clapping:


Dear Prosecutors!
Could you please, take the example of the hard-working Mr Sneddon while working on the case against Mr Murray?
thank you, we count on you!
 
a bottle of urine was found on the scene which contained a small amount of propofol, similar to the amount found in the bladder. this seems to indicate mj was given propofol earlier that night, not just the dose that killed him.
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that intresting. i missed that bit of info. so it seems from the above muarray gave it earlier in the night or could it have been left there from a couple of days b4? wouldnt expect urine to be left about though
 
elusive moonwalker said:
that intresting. i missed that bit of info. so it seems from the above muarray gave it earlier in the night or could it have been left there from a couple of days b4? wouldnt expect urine to be left about though
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Yes, that is an interesting point. I realized that too because one way or another, he was likely awake when he used that bottle so it means that the bottle was left from another night (not likely given that he has housekeepers) or he was given it prior and there was still some left from another night since it is not likely he was awake after the dose he received on the last night.
 
10:40 am - Propofol 25 mg

11:18 am - Phone call to Las Vegas office (32 minutes / as being reported)

11:49 am - Phone call to a Las Vegas cell phone (3 minutes / as being reported)

11:51 am - Phone call to Houston (11 minutes / as being reported)

12:05 or 12:10 pm - Murray runs downstairs and screams, "Go get Prince!" (According to Chef)

__________________________________________

I'm not sure why this keeps popping into my head, but I have a feeling that MJ passed away some time during the first part of Murray's first phone call.

It seems like Murray left the room to use the restroom as soon as it looked to him like MJ had gone to sleep after that last injection, and then he made that first phone call after going to the restroom. The only thing is, MJ was doing more than just going to sleep. He was going into an eternal sleep. He was passing away while Murray was talking on the phone.

It feels like Murray did not stay with MJ long enough to be able to tell whether MJ was going to sleep or if he needed to be immediately resuscitated, and because Murray did not stay in the room long enough to notice that MJ needed help, Murray missed the opportunity to go into rescue mode. He dropped the ball! He misread it!

After later discovering that something was wrong...once he returned to the room...he went into a panic! He then tried to see if MJ was still breathing, if he had a pulse, if he could bring him back, and then he tried to frantically perform CPR.

Once he realized it was not working he knew that he would have to get additional help, so he started scrambling to hide things before the additional help got there. He probably poured out some stuff into the toilet too and flushed it.

Whatever he started doing in an effort to cover up what he had botched up, he needed an adequate amount of time to do it before running downstairs.

Sometimes while I'm looking at these shorter phone calls, it feels like Murray may have been talking and hiding things simultaneously as well, because when you look at how long his lawyer said he tried to resuscitate MJ before going to get help, he said it was approximately 5 - 10 minutes. This 5-10 minutes that he was so-called trying to perform CPR would overlap with the cover-up time and/or with one or two of those short phone calls.

It seems unlikely that Murray would first ran down stairs to get help and then start hiding things after someone came up to assist him, because they would see him hiding things and question him about it. Plus, they would become very upset with him for trying to hide things rather than doing everything in his power to help MJ. And he most certainly would not have been able to hide things while the paramedics were there.

Not only did it take some time to ditch stuff, but it also took some time to light those fireplaces and turn up the heating system before going down stairs.

Another thing. Murray's attorney said, in a statement, that Murray did not find MJ at 11:00 a.m.

So, around what time did he find him then? Not able to pinpoint that, but he probably found MJ deceased before he called Houston. What is one of the first things that people want when they are in trouble? They usually want to go home. Murray's home is in Houston.
 
but the possible prior dose would have need to be small as it anyway didn´t make high concentration to urine.

As the "next" one was big, but didn´t make it to urine cause Michael died almost immediately.
 
At what time he told his assistants to go to his store and hide/take things? How do we know about this?
 
Murray did take his time before he called for help , Murray did not delay the paramedics for 43 minutes for nothing , he knew exactly what he was doing , he did turn up the fireplaces in the room for nothing , he did not say I gave him only lorazepam for nothing . He did not call his girlfriend in Houston and fake the whole thing 'ohh i he is not breathing' for nothing . He needed time to think . yes the beads abrasions says MJ definitely was not alive after they were removed but for how long he was dead ?

as AllForMJ said , the last call to his girlfriend ended at 12.03 and the call to MJ's assistant was immediatley after it , if Murray indeed found MJ while he was talking to hisgirfriend and started doing CPR , then he would not have been able to collect all the meds , the IV system and hide them in another room .
 
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QUOTE FROM DAISY:
Dear Prosecutors!
Could you please, take the example of the hard-working Mr Sneddon while working on the case against Mr Murray?
thank you, we count on you!

I say "Amen" to this!!! :)
 
I'm not sure why this keeps popping into my head, but I have a feeling that MJ passed away some time during the first part of Murray's first phone call.
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but that goes against him passing almost straight away after being given the D. presuming that is fact that he died straight off then will murray change his timeline again because by him sticking to the 10.40 appox time well hes totally incrimated himself
 
AllForMJ said:
Yeah, good question. And was it on June 25th or after June 25th?
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it was the morning of the 25th i think sometime around 9am L.A time

u know sometimes i wonder if the D.A is even gonna bother with all these changed timelines covering it up etc cause surely you would ahave charges related to it or is he just sticking to the negligence of not having the tight equipment and nothing else
 
Soundmind said:
Murray did take his time before he called for help , Murray did not delay the paramedics for 43 minutes for nothing , he knew exactly what he was doing , he did turn up the fireplaces in the room for nothing , he did not say I gave him only lorazepam for nothing . He did not call his girlfriend in Houston and fake the whole thing 'ohh i he is not breathing' for nothing . He needed time to think . yes the beads abrasions says MJ definitely was not alive after they were removed but for how long he was dead ?

as AllForMJ said , the last call to his girlfriend ended at 12.03 and the call to MJ's assistant was immediatley after it , if Murray indeed found MJ while he was talking to hisgirfriend and started doing CPR , then he would not have been able to collect all the meds , the IV system and hide them in another room .
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Exactly. And it would have taken a little while to light multiple fireplaces too. So, he could not have done all of that during that time either.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
it was the morning of the 25th i think sometime around 9am L.A time

u know sometimes i wonder if the D.A is even gonna bother with all these changed timelines covering it up etc cause surely you would ahave charges related to it or is he just sticking to the negligence of not having the tight equipment and nothing else
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Really, elusive moonwalker? Murray made that call around 9am?

Now I'm starting to wonder if MJ probably passed away from the Midazolam.

Look at this...

Midazolam HCl
Injection

WARNING

Adult and Pediatrics

Intravenous midazolam has been associated with respiratory depression and respiratory arrest, especially when used for sedation in noncritical care settings. In some cases, where this was not recognized promptly and treated effectively, death or hypoxic encephalopathy has resulted. Intravenous midazolam should be used only in hospital or ambulatory care settings, including physicians' and dental offices, that provide for continuous monitoring of respiratory and cardiac function, ie, pulse oximetry. Immediate availability of resuscitative drugs and age- and size-appropriate equipment for bag/valve/mask ventilation and intubation, and personnel trained in their use and skilled in airway management should be assured (see WARNINGS). For deeply sedated pediatric patients, a dedicated individual, other than the practitioner performing the procedure, should monitor the patient throughout the procedure.

http://www.rxlist.com/midazolam-injection-drug.htm


Murray had the individuals in Houston moving stuff before he administered propofol at 10:40 a.m., huh? Annnnd the other stuff is just as unsafe to use.

Hey, do you think maybe MJ could have passed away somewhere around 9am and maybe this is why Murray keeps changing his story?
 
but the possible prior dose would have need to be small as it anyway didn´t make high concentration to urine.
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the prior dose was not necessarily as small as the dose in the urine bottle suggests. propofol quickly metabolizes (changes into other substances). in the urine these metabolites can be detected by using urine hydrolysis. it is possible to estimate the amount of propofol given by using this method.

read here, this is from a propofol case study which was posted on this board some time ago:

Results
...Analytical results of propofol determination in blood, urine, and various organs are summarised in Table 1. Propofol was mainly metabolized by two pathways: either direct glucuronide conjugation or p-hydroxylation with subsequent glucuronidation (or sulphation). Only very small amounts were eliminated without metabolization. Acidic urine hydrolysis increased the propofol concentration from 5.4μg/ml to 8900μg/ml. Because the urine bladder contained 250ml urine the eliminated propofol amounted to 2225mg even without the other hydroxy metabolites for which the quantification was made impossible by the lack of standards. Therefore more than 11 ampoules of 20ml propofol emulsion must have been administered during the last hours before death.

Table 1: Results of toxicological analysis
...
Blood 5.3
Urine 5.4
Urine hydrol. 8900

link to preview: http://www.springerlink.com/content/4leaa3ah8q75pndc/
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id like to know the amount of propofol metabolites found in the urine. i couldnt find it in the report, they only give the amount of actual propofol, not the metabolites. it seems they are holding this information back. this could be crucial to estimate the amount of propofol which was given.
 
sophie read that case carefully the male nurse was abusing propofol for the last six hours of his life , he took within six hours more than 11 20ml propofol ampules . It is very clear the amounts he took were alot , the same applies to MJ's case if he took alot , it would have showed up in his urine .

the brain concentration along with the hair sample toxicology exams are held on purpose .
 
sophie thanks.

But these processes are taking place in the same pace in AND outside of the body (just want to make sure).

Soundmind said:
sophie read that case carefully the male nurse was abusing propofol for the last six hours of his life , he took within six hours more than 11 20ml propofol ampules . It is very clear the amounts he took were alot , the same applies to MJ's case if he took alot , it would have showed up in his urine .

the brain concentration along with the hair sample toxicology exams are held on purpose .
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OK.
 
sophie read that case carefully the male nurse was abusing propofol for the last six hours of his life , he took within six hours more than 11 20ml propofol ampules . It is very clear the amounts he took were alot , the same applies to MJ's case if he took alot , it would have showed up in his urine .
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the amount only showed up once hydrolysis was used, the amount without metabolization was much smaller:

Acidic urine hydrolysis increased the propofol concentration from 5.4μg/ml to 8900μg/ml
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I can't find any referens in this thread to the (in the report) mentioned tattoo like thing MJ had on half of his head. Did he actually tattood himself with black ink to cover the loss of hair or what? And why didn't he have hair on his forehead? The drawings in the report doesn't show a normal baldness pattern I think.
 
I have always felt he was dead before the time Murray gave. Especially when I heard of the assistants going to the storage. So we have concluded MJ did or did not have a catheter (urine) on? if so, wouldn't that be a reason for the jar of urine could he have emptied MJ's bladder previously that night. If he did not have a catheter why would he not be able to get up and go to the bathroom. Was he too sleepy. This part is confusing me.
 
sophie said:
the amount only showed up once hydrolysis was used, the amount without metabolization was much smaller:
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The same reason they held the brain concentration and hair sample results .

yet the male nurse had a urine concentration of 5.4 and the urine bladder was 220ml , while MJ had a urine concentration of 0.15 with a urine bladder of 550 . We can not determine for sure how much he was given , but it wa for sure for only minutes and not hours like the male nurse .
 
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ensleyave said:
I have always felt he was dead before the time Murray gave. Especially when I heard of the assistants going to the storage. So we have concluded MJ did or did not have a catheter (urine) on? if so, wouldn't that be a reason for the jar of urine could he have emptied MJ's bladder previously that night. If he did not have a catheter why would he not be able to get up and go to the bathroom. Was he too sleepy. This part is confusing me.
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me too.
It was stated earlier in this thread that after benzos you might be influenced a lot though still ntot really sleeping.
we were discussing it, when trying to figure out whether Michael could feel teh beads while lying on them. Same with the catherer/bathroom thing here.
 
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