Latest on MJJC

Cover-Up in Michael Jackson Death?

Cover-Up in Michael Jackson Death?--TMZ

Cover-Up in Michael Jackson Death?

Posted Mar 1st 2010 8:00AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson received the fatal dose of Propofol through an IV in his leg, and law enforcement believes Dr. Conrad Murray may have tried covering it up ... this according to law enforcement sources and an anesthesiologist who reviewed the case for the LAPD.

Dr. Murray told cops he administered only a very small amount of Propofol -- 2.5ml shortly before Jackson died. But Dr. John Dombrowski, a noted anesthesiologist and member of the board of the American Society of Anesthesiologists who reviewed the LAPD file for detectives, tells TMZ that 2.5ml couldn't put Jackson to sleep, much less kill him. Indeed, the Coroner's report notes the level of Propofol found in Jackson's body was equivalent to that found during "general anesthesia for major surgery."

A small, empty, 20ml bottle of Propofol was found in the bedroom, but there was a secret compartment in a nearby closet that could be the key to the prosecution's case. Several days after Jackson's death, law enforcement found numerous bottles of Propofol in that closet, including a large, empty, 100ml bottle with a large tear in the rubber stopper.

The tear could be critical evidence. There are two ways of administering Propofol. The first is sticking a syringe into the rubber stopper, withdrawing a small amount and then injecting it into the tubing. The second way is by using a spike -- which creates a tear in the rubber stop -- and connects the entire bottle of Propofol to the tube.



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/01/coverup-michael-jackson-death-propofol-dr-conrad-murray-lapd-iv/#ixzz0gwce18ug
 
Last edited:
Re: Cover-Up in Michael Jackson Death?--TMZ

OMG ! That is very disturbing news but not surprising .................:(
 
Re: Cover-Up in Michael Jackson Death?--TMZ

:( :(

Murray you big fat jerk !!

:(
 
Murder She Wrote.
To quote Dick Gregory:
"Doctors make the best assassins."
 
Re: Cover-Up in Michael Jackson Death?--TMZ

what are these people doing reading our posts here? it sounds like something I'm reading off a forum
 
Lawd have mercy! This is beyond an unexcuse. To me, what told the story of a "cover up" was the way he performed CPR. I know CPR (and I am not a doctor but I know it because I work in law enforcement and was given the chance to know it). You know you are suppose to put the person on a hard surface. Also when performing CPR, You are suppose to call 911 when you FIRST notice a problem. This is called CHECK, CALL, CARE. YOU FIRST CHECK the person and your surrounding area, you CALL 911, THEN you CARE with doing CPR.
 
Urgh there is no way Murray gave Michael only 25mg of propofol, no way. Why the DA isn't announcing more charges is beyond me. I know IM is easier to prove but there is so much evidence against Murray. The whole thing makes me sick.
 
Re: Cover-Up in Michael Jackson Death?--TMZ

CherubimII said:

The tear could be critical evidence. There are two ways of administering Propofol. The first is sticking a syringe into the rubber stopper, withdrawing a small amount and then injecting it into the tubing. The second way is by using a spike -- which creates a tear in the rubber stop -- and connects the entire bottle of Propofol to the tube.
Click to expand...


This is what I've been saying all along in the 'coroner's report thread'. My mother is an anesthesiologist, and she told me there's no way too keep a patient asleep, UNLESS you give propofol via an IV drip (sorry, don't know how to translate the medical terms).

So, the whole discussion about the tubes found in Michael's house (the long tubes had no propofol in them, and the short ones, used for bolus injections, did) was pointless.

Imho, he left the IV running. He may of disposed of the longer tubes afterwards, or he found some other way to cover it up. But my gut instinct, along with the few facts I do know about general anesthesia, told me that this is what happened.



Off topic, I'm really sorry you're hurting guys! :(
But please, please don't say stuff like "I want to kill him", it's not what Michael taught us, I truly believe this is not what he would of wanted...
 
from kop board

Murray already said he gave it through an IV drip , they found an IV drip system IN HIS BAG , tested it , no propofol or lidociane or anything in the long tube attached to the bag or I should say in the scenario above attached to the propofol bottle using a spike .

the expert said MJ would not have been able to inject himself "if ONLY bolus injections were used" , they clearly suggesting it was given via bolus injections , otherwise Murray will certainly blame it on MJ .
 
This is what we all suspected long ago, but it is news about the vial top being split.

Murray gave Michael a huge dose of lorazepam, then he gave him a huge dose of propofol. FACT. I'm not sure if he gave the whole vial, but certainly way more than 25mg.

This is definitely Second Degree Murder minimum IMO......wreckless disregard for human life. If just one of these overdoses were found then maybe an Involuntary Manslaughter charge would be reasonable, but for him to have given two overdoses is inexplicable.
 
Michael had a femoral blood level of 169ng/ml
Click to expand...
so from that is it possible to work out what murray gave in mg 8 and a bit?and that compairs to what murray claimed he gave?
 
never mind the above saw the below in the other thread

The amount of lorazepam found in the samples in the toxicology report correspond to a dose approx 2.5 times greater than the 4mg Murray declared he administered.
Click to expand...
 
Yes, I believe the dose would have been approx 10mg via IV injection. Tablets and Intra Muscular doses give lower peak plasma levels.

4mg gives 70ng/ml
approx. 10mg gives 169ng/ml
 
StaceyMJ said:
No stacked charges even - why?
Click to expand...

The answer to that is simple but not pretty.

This is a possible scenario, a suspicion by LAPD but in a court of law all that matters is "can you prove it without any reasonable doubt"..

all the information that we have and the debate about the charges tells me this - yes they are suspicious like all of us but no they don't think that they can prove it for certain.

unfortunately neither life nor law is fair.. sad but true..
 
Ejacobs29 said:
When I read these articles I feel so sick to my stomach, Why is this happening before all of our eye's not just Michael Jackson fans but the world. This is dangerous for every human being in the world. Letting doctors walk, who appear to be the best kinds of assassins. Everyday people die due to drugs overdoses not by illegal drugs but drugs given or prescribed by doctors. We don't hear about these people because they are not famous but they are still humans.
Why are people, law enforcement agencies and the legal system so afraid to go after these doctors? Just because you go to medical school and take an oath to protect lives, doesn't mean you should get a free pass. If you kill someone Dr. or not you should be treated the same as any other criminal who takes a life.
They DA in Los Angeles along with the LAPD, in my opinion has given this guy many allowances that regular citizens would not have gotten. When Murray turned himself in, the same way Michael Jackson turned himself in he was not handcuffed. When Michael was arrested his bail was 3 million dollars, he never took a life, yet Dr. Murray takes a life and get's 75,000 dollar bail. Michael was charged with 9 felonies and Murray charged with 1.
What will it take for people to wake up? If I hear one more Michael Jackson fan say, they would rather see Murray charged with manslaughter and maybe get 4 years than nothing, I am going to go mad! This is exactly the type of thing that plays into the hands of a system that allows two kinds of justice.
Murder is murder, and it should not matter to the everyday citizen, the police or prosecutors around the world, if your name has a Dr. in front of it or not! The simple fact that the world sits there and hears these lies that Michael Jackson was a drug addict and there for its ok..is Wrong. I don't care if it were true (which it isn't) and Michael was shooting up outside the stapes center every 5 minutes it doesn't give the Doctors a license for Murder!
We should not accept this, Michael Jackson or not it is wrong and it is a double standard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


These absurd charges do not reflect this article. We are going after the LADA We strike now..while we have the chance.

Join us at www.justice4mj.com
Tweet and email to DA STEVE COOLEY NOW!

http://www.stevecooley.com/
Click to expand...

I agree with every single last word of you post!! :clapping::clapping:
 
The tear could be critical evidence. There are two ways of administering Propofol. The first is sticking a syringe into the rubber stopper, withdrawing a small amount and then injecting it into the tubing. The second way is by using a spike -- which creates a tear in the rubber stop -- and connects the entire bottle of Propofol to the tube.

Dr. Dombrowski says if a spike is used to connect the bottle directly to the IV tube, the doctor must use an infusion pump to regulate the flow of Propofol -- otherwise, the patient could easily OD. There was no infusion pump found in Jackson's home.
Click to expand...

according to the autopsy report they only found propofol in a short iv tube going to a y connector, like in this pic, segment (8) to (7):

http://www.vagmapharm.com/samp.ch12.html

if murray administered propofol by connecting a vial to an iv tube, they should have found a long iv tube going from the y connector to the vial, like in the above pic, segment (7) to (2).

unless murray connected the vial directly with the y connector without using an iv tube + clamp (would this be possible?) this indicates he gave a bolus shot by syringe rather than using a drip to continuously administer propofol. that he had no pump also supports this theory.

i dont know what the tear in the propofol vial means, if this story is even true. maybe a syringe can cause this as well. or they found a long iv tube containing propofol, but are holding this information back (why?). or murray took the tube with him to the hospital and that's why they didnt find it (how could he have done this since the bag was at the house? also, why bother since he left the rest of the equipment at the house?)

there's no way too keep a patient asleep, UNLESS you give propofol via an IV drip
Click to expand...

murray also administered lorazepam. we dont know when the lorazepam was injected, but since it didnt show in the liver and urine according to the autopsy summary, it seems it was administered not too long before death. a lorazepam shot lasts for at least 1-2hours according to what i read.

if murray administered a propofol bolus and didnt administer the drug by iv drip, it seems likely he had planned to keep mj sedated with lorazepam, not with propofol. what this implies in terms why would murray even bother to administer a propofol bolus is anyone's guess

the amount of diprivan in the urine dont support anywhere near 100 being given
Click to expand...

to estimate the amount of propofol given within the whole night we need to know the amount of metabolites found. metabolites are the substances a drug changes to. the metabolic process takes place within the liver, kidneys and other organs. the amounts of propofol metabolites found arent included in the tox report.

that only small amounts of unchanged (not metabolized) propofol was found in the urine does not mean the amount injected was low. according to literature, only 0.3% of the original drug shows in the urine, the rest shows as its metabolites.

also, if the drug was injected shortly before death, only very low amounts of it would show in the urine.

read here about the metabolism of propofol:

http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.phar...hs/CPS- (General Monographs- D)/DIPRIVAN.html

Pharmacokinetics in Adults: The pharmacokinetic profile of propofol can be described by a 3-compartment open model. After a single bolus dose, there is fast distribution from blood into tissues (t1/2a: 1.8 to 8.3 min), high metabolic clearance (t1/2b: 34 to 66 min) and a terminal slow elimination from poorly perfused tissues (t1/2g: 184 to 480 min). With 12- and 24-hour samplings, t1/2g values of 502 and 674 min, respectively, were observed.

[..]

The termination of the anesthetic or sedative effects of propofol after a single i.v. bolus or a maintenance infusion is due to extensive redistribution from the CNS to other tissues and high metabolic clearance, both of which will decrease blood concentrations. The mean propofol concentration at time of awakening is 1 µg/mL (range: 0.74 to 2.2 µg/mL). Recovery from anesthesia or sedation is rapid. When propofol is used for both induction (2.0 to 2.5 mg/kg) and maintenance (0.1 to 0.2 mg/kg/min) of anesthesia, the majority of patients are generally awake, responsive to verbal command and oriented in approximately 7 to 8 minutes. Recovery from the effects of propofol occurs due to rapid metabolism and is not dependent on the terminal elimination half-life since the blood levels achieved in this phase are not clinically significant. A study in 6 subjects showed that 72 and 88% of the administered radio-labeled dose was recovered in the urine within 24 hours and 5 days, respectively. Less than 2% was excreted in the feces. Unchanged drug was less than 0.3%. Propofol is chiefly metabolized by conjugation in the liver to inactive metabolites which are excreted by the kidney. Propofol glucuronide accounts for about 50% of the administered dose. The remainder consists of the 1- and 4-glucuronide and 4-sulfate conjugates of 2,6-diisopropyl-1,4-quinol.
Click to expand...
 
Ejacobs29 said:
They DA in Los Angeles along with the LAPD, in my opinion has given this guy many allowances that regular citizens would not have gotten. When Murray turned himself in, the same way Michael Jackson turned himself in he was not handcuffed. When Michael was arrested his bail was 3 million dollars, he never took a life, yet Dr. Murray takes a life and get's 75,000 dollar bail. Michael was charged with 9 felonies and Murray charged with 1.
Click to expand...

I now find myself comparing this case to Former NYC police commissioner Bernard Kerick who was sentenced to 4 years in prison for several felony charges - none of which involved killing a guy. And yet Murray, who DID kill a guy - and not just any guy but Michael Jackson - could also get 4 years in prison tops and even that much is doubtful. This is the value the legal system places on people's lives I guess...very little.
 
Last edited:
This has got to be a cover-up. It was found in a SECRET COMPARTMENT! How fishy is that?

And one news source is saying Murray COULD HAVE covered up evidence! HE DID COVER UP EVIDENCE! What more do we need to prove this is a whole cover-up?? Find some propofol buried under the ground or something??

A small, empty, 20ml bottle of Propofol was found in the bedroom, but there was a secret compartment in a nearby closet that could be the key to the prosecution's case. Several days after Jackson's death, law enforcement found numerous bottles of Propofol in that closet, including a large, empty, 100ml bottle with a large tear in the rubber stopper.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
There is no doubt in my mind this a cover up, how deep it goes who knows, but Murray's actions that day and everyday after screams cover up. I could never figure out how the police could be so clueless and not see this. We see it they must see it too.

TMZ, well, they confirmed my thoughts. We will see...
 
meena76 said:
There is no doubt in my mind this a cover up, how deep it goes who knows, but Murray's actions that day and everyday after screams cover up. I could never figure out how the police could be so clueless and not see this. We see it they must see it too.

TMZ, well, they confirmed my thoughts. We will see...
Click to expand...

This really is big. I hope no one ignores it.
 
Last edited:
kasume said:
This really is big. I hope no one ignores it.
Click to expand...


I hope not!! My local news station just did coverage on this and I'm glad!

I am literally tearing up right now knowing that Murray WAS RECKLESS AND DID NOT GIVE A F***!!!! WHY MURRAY, WHY DID YOU NOT CARE ABOUT ANOTHER HUMAN'S LIFE???????? :cry:

Please let the world see that he was trying to cover things up!!!! Why did you do this to him Murray!???
 
:no: How can one be so stupid, I still don't understand how he's a trained physician and just somehow didn't learn anything about patient safety. We've all suspected this, and I've seen posters who claim the truth will come out as a result of all of this, I can only hope so.
 
Wow, that's all I can say.....
It is true that he should have had more charges against him totaling more years but then... I'd rather him pay for what he did rather than be charged with lots that won't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court and him walking...
 
sophie said:
according to the autopsy report they only found propofol in a short iv tube going to a y connector, like in this pic, segment (8) to (7):

http://www.vagmapharm.com/samp.ch12.html

if murray administered propofol by connecting a vial to an iv tube, they should have found a long iv tube going from the y connector to the vial, like in the above pic, segment (7) to (2).

unless murray connected the vial directly with the y connector without using an iv tube + clamp (would this be possible?) this indicates he gave a bolus shot by syringe rather than using a drip to continuously administer propofol. that he had no pump also supports this theory.

i dont know what the tear in the propofol vial means, if this story is even true. maybe a syringe can cause this as well. or they found a long iv tube containing propofol, but are holding this information back (why?). or murray took the tube with him to the hospital and that's why they didnt find it (how could he have done this since the bag was at the house? also, why bother since he left the rest of the equipment at the house?)



murray also administered lorazepam. we dont know when the lorazepam was injected, but since it didnt show in the liver and urine according to the autopsy summary, it seems it was administered not too long before death. a lorazepam shot lasts for at least 1-2hours according to what i read.

if murray administered a propofol bolus and didnt administer the drug by iv drip, it seems likely he had planned to keep mj sedated with lorazepam, not with propofol. what this implies in terms why would murray even bother to administer a propofol bolus is anyone's guess



to estimate the amount of propofol given within the whole night we need to know the amount of metabolites found. metabolites are the substances a drug changes to. the metabolic process takes place within the liver, kidneys and other organs. the amounts of propofol metabolites found arent included in the tox report.

that only small amounts of unchanged (not metabolized) propofol was found in the urine does not mean the amount injected was low. according to literature, only 0.3% of the original drug shows in the urine, the rest shows as its metabolites.

also, if the drug was injected shortly before death, only very low amounts of it would show in the urine.

read here about the metabolism of propofol:
Click to expand...


no you don't need that , 0.10 noway support what TMZ are claiming . 100ml =1000mg of propofol that's two and half hours of sleep , and concentration above 2 in urine . NO WAY .

they found an empty propofol bottle 20ml=200mg , consistent with ten minutes of sedation and more importantly consistent with 0.10 propofol concentration in urine .


basically this article is full of shit , the IV system was in his bag in another room , isn't this enough to prove cover up ? who was really performing CPR while he was removing the IV system and hiding it in another room ?

and Murray did say he gave it through IV drip so why TMZ people are acting like it's news , as you said the evidence does prove it was not given via an IV drip but by bolus injections .

Bolus injections are not less reckless, becuase unlike cases of propofol abuse where the user loss consciousness before injecting a lethal dose , Murray was injecting and had no idea when to stop .

that only small amounts of unchanged (not metabolized) propofol was found in the urine does not mean the amount injected was low. according to literature, only 0.3% of the original drug shows in the urine, the rest shows as its metabolites
Click to expand...
.

as for metabolites ,in propofol case they would not have been able to determine the quantity based on that simply because there is no scientific way to do it. Their only measurement tool is the urine concentration .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top