Dark Skin Michael And Racism In The Fan Community

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Nite Line;4300980 said:
No, an Asian male.
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How come you’re so judgemental towards Black people and women (or anyone not identifying as male) to call them snowflakes when you don’t share their experiences?
 
ScreenOrigami;4300983 said:
How come you’re so judgemental towards Black people and women (or anyone not identifying as male) to call them snowflakes when you don’t share their experiences?
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I have been racially abused myself, as an Asian guy living in England. I just don't like how some people like to bring racism or sexism into everything. Like this thread is a perfect example. All Michael Jackson impersonators are white and they always impersonate his later eras, so there is racism in the fan community. Absolute nonsense.
 
Nite Line;4300984 said:
I have been racially abused myself, as an Asian guy living in England. I just don't like how some people like to bring racism or sexism into everything. Like this thread is a perfect example. All Michael Jackson impersonators are white and they always impersonate his later eras, so there is racism in the fan community. Absolute nonsense.
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This is oversimplifying NatureCriminal’s initial post. I suggest to read it again.
 
This is a very important topic not a opinion. race is not an opinion you are born whatever race you are. you can't be white or black.
 
Michael does have white and native american in his family history BUT he still black. none of us 100% anything. i'm black but i do have white and native american in my family history as well. when the european came to america they brought the blacks and stole the natives land. because of this alot of blacks, natives,and whites have at least 1% one of these race. alot of european rape and sold blacks and natives. michael also has alittle asian in him too. his mom has that on her side.
 
I understand Michael Trapson and others fans mean. you can like michael later stuff but you can still be racist too. for example let's say someone hearing and noticing michael for the first time and say i love this song i wonder who it's from and then they look up and see michael who was a black man and say well i like the song but i don't like him because he black.
 
NatureCriminal7896 said:
alot of fans lately been noticing racism in the community. for example alot fans been saying why thriller dark skinned Michael doesn't get alot of attention like dangerous, history, and invincible michael?
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I don't see a lack of attention for Michael when he had dark skin. But there's a lot more footage, pictures, and material (adult solo) post-Thriller, so it's going to be circulated a lot more. And a lot of Michael's fans just enjoy his post-Thriller work more.

some fans been noticing that alot michael jackson impersonators are white or hispanic and latino which nothing wrong with that but alot fans feel they forgetting that michael was black man.
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Most impersonators have fair skin, so they have to do the later eras. That's not racism.

some fans feel that if michael never had vitiligo that some of them wouldn't have jobs impersonating michael in the first place.
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Yes, because they have fair skin and impersonating him with dark skin would be blackface. Again, not racism.

also some fans been experiencing racism to some fans not letting them join groups etc because they dark skin.
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Racism exists everywhere, so there will always be a few racists within any community. That doesn't make it a general community problem unless it's substantial and widespread.
 
ScreenOrigami;4300986 said:
This is oversimplifying NatureCriminal’s initial post. I suggest to read it again.
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The whole gist of this thread is that there is racism in the fan community because of the skin colour of Michael Jackson impersonators and what era they impersonate.
 
I do believe there’s an element of racism in the Michael Jackson fandom/fan community. I watched Michael Trapson’s video on that topic and it’s true. I’ve been a Michael Jackson fan practically my entire life, and I’m somebody that dances like Michael Jackson and it’s almost rare that the ones who go viral are black and are actually true to the style. That kid with dreadlocks from the UK, he’s cool and all that. But when it comes down to Michael Jackson’s style of dance he ain’t all that. He’s really a hip hop dancer that likes to use Michael’s music because clearly that’s what got him on Ellen. But how many more guys are like him. I know one guy from the UK too and he’s been representing Michael for years and he hasn’t gotten much recognition for it either.

I did talk about this subject in my struggle podcast[lol] about Michael though, I talk about it in detail at 1:10:15
[video]https://youtu.be/BIkQth_5caA[/video]

I do think that there are people that conveniently forget that Michael was a black man. And for them to acknowledge it’s almost as if Michael has to be here to reiterate the fact. Michael Jackson was more famous than Jesus by 1983-1984 and his skin was darker. And back then you had to be black to be a Michael Jackson impersonator. Once his look became more ambiguous, other cultures started to claim him as their own.
 
TheThrillerGuy;4301031 said:
I do believe there’s an element of racism in the Michael Jackson fandom/fan community. I watched Michael Trapson’s video on that topic and it’s true. I’ve been a Michael Jackson fan practically my entire life, and I’m somebody that dances like Michael Jackson and it’s almost rare that the ones who go viral are black and are actually true to the style. That kid with dreadlocks from the UK, he’s cool and all that. But when it comes down to Michael Jackson’s style of dance he ain’t all that. He’s really a hip hop dancer that likes to use Michael’s music because clearly that’s what got him on Ellen. But how many more guys are like him. I know one guy from the UK too and he’s been representing Michael for years and he hasn’t gotten much recognition for it either.

I did talk about this subject in my struggle podcast[lol] about Michael though, I talk about it in detail at 1:10:15
[video]https://youtu.be/BIkQth_5caA[/video]

I do think that there are people that conveniently forget that Michael was a black man. And for them to acknowledge it’s almost as if Michael has to be here to reiterate the fact. Michael Jackson was more famous than Jesus by 1983-1984 and his skin was darker. And back then you had to be black to be a Michael Jackson impersonator. Once his look became more ambiguous, other cultures started to claim him as their own.
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1. Salif (who was on the 'Ellen' show) is based in Paris. (not the UK)
2. 'one guy in the UK representing Michael - hasn't got much recognition for it' - Do you mean Navi? Navi routinely sells out theatres all around the UK, and works with Jennifer Batten for performances several times a year. He also flies all around the world successfully 'repping' MJ. As far as I know, MJ is his whole career. I don't know what more 'recognition' you would like him to have?

To be truly recognised whether as a singer or dancer, you have to 'be yourself'. Which means doing what MJ did- building on the work of the greatest names in history, but also bringing something new of your own, to create your own 'signature' sound or movement style.

I'm not sure any impersonator (of anyone) has ever been truly 'recognised', in a national or world sense ???

Also- I'm not sure any 'other cultures claimed MJ as their own'? MJ has a massive following in Japan, China, Russia and South America, but I'm not sure anyone 'claimed him' as theirs? He was rightly 'acclaimed', and welcomed as someone with great empathy for other people and cultures, but I'm not sure I ever saw any 'claiming'?
 
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myosotis said:
1. Salif (who was on the 'Ellen' show) is based in Paris. (not the UK)
2. 'one guy in the UK representing Michael - hasn't got much recognition for it' - Do you mean Navi? Navi routinely sells out theatres all around the UK, and works with Jennifer Batten for performances several times a year. He also flies all around the world successfully 'repping' MJ. As far as I know, MJ is his whole career. I don't know what more 'recognition' you would like him to have?

To be truly recognised whether as a singer or dancer, you have to 'be yourself'. Which means doing what MJ did- building on the work of the greatest names in history, but also bringing something new of your own, to create your own 'signature' sound or movement style.

I'm not sure any impersonator (of anyone) has ever been truly 'recognised', in a national or world sense ???

Also- I'm not sure any 'other cultures claimed MJ as their own'? MJ has a massive following in Japan, China, Russia and South America, but I'm not sure anyone 'claimed him' as theirs? He was rightly 'acclaimed', and welcomed as someone with great empathy for other people and cultures, but I'm not sure I ever saw any 'claiming'?
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I'm not 100% sure what you didn't get about my first post but basically what I'm saying is guys like Salif going viral for something Michael Jackson related is very few and far between. I wouldn't even consider Salif that much of a tribute artist because when it really boils down to it, he's a hip hop dancer. I wouldn't put him in the category of a Chris Grant (first dancer selected for This Is It), who when you see him dance it's straight MJ. Regardless I'm not knocking Salif because anything Michael Jackson that's viral in a positive light, is positive.

I never even heard of Navi and I just googled him. Precisely my point, what Michael Trapson was talking about and the impetus for this whole thread is the fact the most if not all of the most popular Michael Jackson impersonators and tribute artists are all post dangerous era. You next to never see Thriller Era, OTW era and before. That's exactly what Michael Trapson was talking about and I didn't even really notice that until I really started to pay attention. Ever since I was a kid, cause I started listening to MJ at 5 years old, I was born in 1993; I never even cared about his skin color at all. Michael is Michael. I don't look at Thriller Era any differently than I do History, Invincible or whatever. I've been studying Michael Jackson's style of dance for as long as I can remember, and that didn't stop me from learning everything. I didn't just say "I only want to know Michael Jackson's moves when he was black and that's it." And I'm quoting Trapson on that, and I'll take his word for it since he's alot more immersed in the MJ Community than I am and I believe it.

I don't know if you're black or what you're nationality is, but most of the people I look up to figuratively speaking, look like me. Even if you might not look at it that way, there are people that love to see someone that looks like them achieve the level of greatness that Michael reached in his lifetime. Black people claimed Michael Jackson because he was a proud black man and perpetuated black culture in the best ways possible, and made it cool to be black in the 60's, 70's and especially the 80's. That's why I said that there was a point where you had to be black to be a Michael Jackson impersonator. Even then his appeal was worldwide, but once his vitiligo couldn't be kept under wraps, eventually that's when you started to see white people, latinos impersonating him. Nothing wrong with that, the problem comes in when you have impersonators and tribute artists blatantly denying/overlooking/ignoring the fact that Michael was black. You don't see them doing anything from the early 80's' and before. That was Trapson's whole point.

You gotta understand that because Michael never really came out and said anything about his skin condition at the time, a decent percentage of black people [wrongfully so] talked sh*t about him. Especially after lower income blacks feeling alienated by the Victory Tour, they were already disgruntled. Fast forward 1986, no explanation, they drew their conclusions. Not to say all, but enough. And where black people fell back, the rest of the world stepped up. That's why you'll see a lot more popular non-black impersonators and tribute artists than black ones. Like Trapson said too, they're not looking for black tribute artists either, because the time period of MJ's career that's mostly seen these days, is not Thriller, OTW and The Jacksons era. It's Bad, Dangerous, History and after.

Hope that gives you a bit more understanding.
 
^ I just thought that a lot of different things are getting combined in this discussion, and I was trying to take a longer and wider view about dance in general.
(I love to watch the skills of the Nicholas brothers, for example. I'd love to see someone bring their dance style back, but every entertainment era has it's own style...).

Maybe the reason fewer impersonators dance 'Thriller' or 'Beat It' (specifically) is that you need at least a few good backing dancers and they are expensive to train / hire. (Whereas you can dance 'Billie Jean' on your own.)

If an impersonator is dancing (and not singing), there is surely less established 'choreography' for OTW and earlier albums (except the 'J5 medley'). I understand that MJ had 'signature moves' when he was singing, but if an impersonator has a paying audience and isn't singing, doing 'just the moves' isn't quite as impressive for an audience as when MJ both danced and sang.

I'm just trying to say that what 'impersonators' do is less likely to be motivated by racism (you're likely to love MJ if you want to impersonate him?) than by the practicalities of what the impersonator can do money/ costume/ staging wise? And the fact they are unlikely to be singing live, but need to give the audience a full 'performance'.
 
I appreciate what Michael Trapson does. he is very talented and one of the best people of color MJ impersonator i had every seen in a while. i agree with ScreenOrigami while we at let's make this thread for MJ fans and impersonators who are black and a person of color.

Let's do this!

i'm a black MJ fan but at this point i'm not doing nothing michael related on my social media accounts (except posting pictures of him and chatting posts about his innocence etc with me being a fan etc ) so when i do i will post them here.

who next? shamone! (y)
 
NatureCriminal7896 said:
i agree with ScreenOrigami while we at let's make this thread for MJ fans and impersonators who are black and a person of color.
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Make a new thread for that please.

i'm a black MJ fan but at this point i'm not doing nothing michael related on my social media accounts (except posting pictures of him and chatting posts about his innocence etc with me being a fan etc ) so when i do i will post them here.
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Please do not post the contents of your social media accounts on the forum. It's not necessary or conducive to discussion.
 
It's not fair that dark-skinned Michael doesn't get the attention he deserves. It's important to remember that Michael was a black man and his legacy should reflect that. It's also disappointing to hear about the racism some fans are experiencing within the community. We need to remember that Michael was all about love and acceptance. As fans, we should all be united in our love for his music and message. I think we should support more dark-skinned Michael impersonators and call out any racism we see.
And it's not enough to get a lot of beauty procedures done to become an impersonator. You need to feel the personality and have some similar life experience.
 
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I think the word racism is too charged to use in this kind of discussion. Overall, actually, it is too charged.

It is more so, prejudice, at it's worst, but it's really colorism. And that's a strong thing.

But I think MJ in the Thriller Era gets ton of love, the most love actually. MJ when his melanin was still visible was the most famous face in the world.
 
Thriller is his most popular era. It might be true that fans discuss the eras after Thriller more but there is just more material available. I think the eras before Bad would get more attention if we had good quality concerts.
 
I don't get this thread! Thriller and Bad are most loved eras,. especially Bad being where his appearance is most loved. This has more to do with overall media exposure and Michael's age and maturity of his music, than "if" at all to do with his skin colour.
 
I’m hurt, yet not surprised by the dismissive tone of these responses.

it’s clear that having a certain preference is allowed (and even encouraged), as long as it falls in line the majority - who are actually the minority in the bigger scheme of things..

members on here proudly display their favourite ‘eras’ in their usernames, through statements, in profile pics, signatures, etc. I exercise my right to do the same, and I get called out publicly and have my whole fandom questioned. a practice that is supposedly against the rules of this board, but more on that later..

only difference is that ‘thriller’ is my favourite, along with most of the stuff that came before it. there is a deliberate attempt to minimise and erase that part of michael’s career and life.

the common lie perpetuated is the one where Michael only released six albums during his lifetime, and did three tours. the truth is that Michael was the most active in his career between 1969 and 1985 (‘I want you back’ to ‘we are the world’), when he was constantly releasing, or working on projects - whether they were solo, with his brothers, or collaborative features. he also gave interviews and wasn’t known for being as reclusive at that point. he could have retired if he wanted to, and his legendary status would have been solidified: the eight Grammy wins, the Guinness Book of World Records for the best selling album of all time, the star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame (his second, including the one with the Jacksons), were major milestones that no other artist to this day can compete with. ‘thriller’ was so huge that Michael didn’t even need to tour. those three music videos (four, including ‘say say say’), a format that he revolutionised, traveled all across the world. let’s not forget the impact of his Motown 25 performance. he broke the colour barrier on mtv and certain radio stations that refused to play black artists. which brings me to my next point..

the last time I checked the rules of this site (which was admittedly awhile ago), it was against policy to state that ‘Michael looked better when he was black’. yet there are no rules against stating the opposite.. in fact, a new member in another thread chose ‘dangerous’ as their favourite era because Michael was ‘light skinned just like me’. there was no disciplinary action taken at all, in fact the comment received likes. I can imagine the endless backlash I would receive if I stated the same about ‘thriller’ or even ‘off the wall’. I’m one of the very few black people on this board, and that’s not by coincidence..

the ‘thriller 40th anniversary’ thread was constantly derailed with comments and conversations about later albums/eras, that had nothing to do with the project. the more that I complained about that, the more I was mocked and ridiculed..

I’ve seen comments declaring that ‘off the wall’ doesn’t count as a ‘real Michael Jackson album’ and to ‘throw it in the bin’. again, could you imagine the reaction if that statement was towards his later albums? I can..

polls are made that exclude the first half of michael’s career as possible options. preventing the likes of myself from participating. many of them are created with the intention of weeding out a certain demographic of fans anyway..

yet in reality, it was ‘can you feel it’, ‘thriller’, ‘beat it’ and ‘billie jean’ that made the recent top 100 best 80s songs list, on the smooth fm radio poll, with only one other song that came after that time period..

the cruel bias practiced here does not reflect reality. you can’t rewrite history, but you’re welcome to enjoy the delusion of your alternate reality without me.
 
Hal
83magic said:
I’m hurt, yet not surprised by the dismissive tone of these responses.

it’s clear that having a certain preference is allowed (and even encouraged), as long as it falls in line the majority - who are actually the minority in the bigger scheme of things..

members on here proudly display their favourite ‘eras’ in their usernames, through statements, in profile pics, signatures, etc. I exercise my right to do the same, and I get called out publicly and have my whole fandom questioned. a practice that is supposedly against the rules of this board, but more on that later..

only difference is that ‘thriller’ is my favourite, along with most of the stuff that came before it. there is a deliberate attempt to minimise and erase that part of michael’s career and life.

the common lie perpetuated is the one where Michael only released six albums during his lifetime, and did three tours. the truth is that Michael was the most active in his career between 1969 and 1985 (‘I want you back’ to ‘we are the world’), when he was constantly releasing, or working on projects - whether they were solo, with his brothers, or collaborative features. he also gave interviews and wasn’t known for being as reclusive at that point. he could have retired if he wanted to, and his legendary status would have been solidified: the eight Grammy wins, the Guinness Book of World Records for the best selling album of all time, the star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame (his second, including the one with the Jacksons), were major milestones that no other artist to this day can compete with. ‘thriller’ was so huge that Michael didn’t even need to tour. those three music videos (four, including ‘say say say’), a format that he revolutionised, traveled all across the world. let’s not forget the impact of his Motown 25 performance. he broke the colour barrier on mtv and certain radio stations that refused to play black artists. which brings me to my next point..

the last time I checked the rules of this site (which was admittedly awhile ago), it was against policy to state that ‘Michael looked better when he was black’. yet there are no rules against stating the opposite.. in fact, a new member in another thread chose ‘dangerous’ as their favourite era because Michael was ‘light skinned just like me’. there was no disciplinary action taken at all, in fact the comment received likes. I can imagine the endless backlash I would receive if I stated the same about ‘thriller’ or even ‘off the wall’. I’m one of the very few black people on this board, and that’s not by coincidence..

the ‘thriller 40th anniversary’ thread was constantly derailed with comments and conversations about later albums/eras, that had nothing to do with the project. the more that I complained about that, the more I was mocked and ridiculed..

I’ve seen comments declaring that ‘off the wall’ doesn’t count as a ‘real Michael Jackson album’ and to ‘throw it in the bin’. again, could you imagine the reaction if that statement was towards his later albums? I can..

polls are made that exclude the first half of michael’s career as possible options. preventing the likes of myself from participating. many of them are created with the intention of weeding out a certain demographic of fans anyway..

yet in reality, it was ‘can you feel it’, ‘thriller’, ‘beat it’ and ‘billie jean’ that made the recent top 100 best 80s songs list, on the smooth fm radio poll, with only one other song that came after that time period..

the cruel bias practiced here does not reflect reality. you can’t rewrite history, but you’re welcome to enjoy the delusion of your alternate reality without me.
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Half of these comments are two years old, from people that aren't even here anymore. And the only things I've seen in Thriller 40 is complaining about how badly done Thriller 40 has been. I'll take your word on the comments and all that, but we are not a monolith. You are dealing with a multinational, multigenerational group of people who admire a single artist. An artist who was doing things by the time most people were literally coming up in an entirely different world than you.

People have all sorts of different takes about MJ period, radically different takes, and they're all way more pervasive than just about his physical appearance. The whole world is not gonna sit down and let you take the lead in deciding what MJ should be. Especially since the casual side of the fandom already hew closer to your angle anyway. It's latter day MJ who can't go a single day without being called "a steady decline". People that have no idea what they're talking about love to say as much as they can about things.

To me, any and most comments about MJ's skin tone, appearance in general, are simply irrelevant. For some of us, choosing latter day MJ is just as valid as choosing later Elvis or 90s Queen, it's just about the artistry. Even with MJ there's these tangents people like to go on that have nothing to really do with him. Like, these are complicated feelings to sort out yourself. Stop being rattled by Twitter users irrelevant and worthless comments.
 
83magic said:
the last time I checked the rules of this site (which was admittedly awhile ago), it was against policy to state that ‘Michael looked better when he was black’. yet there are no rules against stating the opposite.. in fact, a new member in another thread chose ‘dangerous’ as their favourite era because Michael was ‘light skinned just like me’. there was no disciplinary action taken at all, in fact the comment received likes. I can imagine the endless backlash I would receive if I stated the same about ‘thriller’ or even ‘off the wall’. I’m one of the very few black people on this board, and that’s not by coincidence..
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I was the one who said something along those lines and I absolutely did NOT mean it in any way that was meant to be racist, I am truly sorry if you felt like that. All I meant was that I look the most similar to those eras and that's why I like to look at pics from that time because it's easier for me to relate to him, I have nothing against how MJ looked like in the other times of his life. English isn't my native language and I tend to use the wrong phrasing quite frequently so again, I'm REALLY sorry if I made you feel offended. I hope that didn't stop you from enjoying being on this forum.
 
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NatureCriminal7896 said:
Michael does have white and native american in his family history BUT he still black. none of us 100% anything. i'm black but i do have white and native american in my family history as well. when the european came to america they brought the blacks and stole the natives land. because of this alot of blacks, natives,and whites have at least 1% one of these race. alot of european rape and sold blacks and natives. michael also has alittle asian in him too. his mom has that on her side.
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I don't think he has any significant native American. Some of his nieces and nephews have tested, and they don't have it. Based on those, I'm guessing he's an average African-American genetically, possibly with slightly above-average amounts of European (20-25% most likely)
 
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