Did you have to adjust to Michael's new sound when dangerous got released?

[wendijane]

This thread is has certainly taken an interesting turn. I agree with dangerous being a diverse art form, and you know if he hadnt had broaded it as widely as he did , i dont know if i would have got it. Dangerous is dynamic art . it appeals to many musical tastes, so it appealed to mine.

hmmm...say , hypothetically if blood on the dance floor had been put in there and first single, and had his work with lynch not happened - id 80 per cent not be here supporting today i think but if say who is it , was first single .....but was accompanied by the dreams commercial as being say the promo for dangerous -or even the video - no doubt in my mind -i would be. - ..hmmmmm how very strange . ill have to think deeper on this.

 

[filmandmusic]

It certainly isn't BOW. But that song is the one that least alienated fans of Bad. I feel there is no real song to represent Dangerous best, as it is quite diverse after all.

I would have picked dangerous as the first single and BoW as the second. That stage performance of Dangerous was the perfect way to promote it at award shows or television shows and I think it would have made single sales peak. I think the entire order of singles were released in a bad way. Who is it wasn't even planned as a single but due to the demand after Oprah Winfrey interview they released it.

1 Dangerous
2 Black or White
3 Give in to me (have this single early on and it is a big success, this type of hard rock ballad was super popular in the 90s. It was released way too late in the cycle)
4 Keep the faith OR Will You Be There (they're both epic and the type of songs that would do well)
5 Remember the time ( a big video like that would give it enough push to become a hit this late on)
6 Heal the world ( a gentle song like this with a perfect message can get a release at any time, it will always do well)

That's it.

 

[Prometheus77]

I would have picked dangerous as the first single and BoW as the second. That stage performance of Dangerous was the perfect way to promote it at award shows or television shows and I think it would have made single sales peak. I think the entire order of singles were released in a bad way. Who is it wasn't even planned as a single but due to the demand after Oprah Winfrey interview they released it.

1 Dangerous
2 Black or White
3 Give in to me (have this single early on and it is a big success, this type of hard rock ballad was super popular in the 90s. It was released way too late in the cycle)
4 Keep the faith OR Will You Be There (they're both epic and the type of songs that would do well)
5 Remember the time ( a big video like that would give it enough push to become a hit this late on)
6 Heal the world ( a gentle song like this with a perfect message can get a release at any time, it will always do well)

That's it.

Seems like a good order, except I don't think Dangerous has mass appeal. So I would scratch that one.

 

[wendijane]

I'd have 100 percent got it, if he had released Give in to me first. ! haha yeah, That would be a no brainier for me because i was heavily into hard rock/ hard everything - little rebel me . ...and well there wouldn't have to be any promo for me to want to get with that. but Dangerous -stage performance first as a single...well.... i very,very much doubt it . hmmmm...
Highly thought provoking question , ..guys Keep it going ! wow -this feels so personal -What would you track would have been your number one to start off this album, if it had not have been Black or White ?

edit- remember the time would have confused the sh!t out of me had that been the first single .. wow it's ;like an alternative universe talking/ thinking this way !

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Black or White was the best throwback to classic MJ. It also has a real ear worm catchiness.

The worst part about the Dangerous singles collection was jumbling Give In To Me and Who Is It. But as it is, the RTT, ITC, Jam trio didn't do so well on radio charts, in comparison to Thriller/Bad days mostly.. NJS was on the way out, so I guess, those songs were a little too late. It just seems most fans favor the B side of Dangerous.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Seems like a good order, except I don't think Dangerous has mass appeal. So I would scratch that one.

Dangerous was a huge success in life performances. It definitely has mass appeal. But I would've been fine with it being the last single, as planned.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

But he took those trends and improved upon them.

Off The Wall was not a trend setter, it was the trend definer. MJ's game wasn't innovating, it was doing what was done better than before. The NJS of Dangerous has aged better than all other kinds to me. Maybe not as catchy as his earlier records though.

 

[filmandmusic]

Seems like a good order, except I don't think Dangerous has mass appeal. So I would scratch that one.

I have a reason for it to be the first single, namely it indeed doesn’t have much single appeal lol. Release it as the 6th single and it will make no impact but as a first single people expect something special or different and Dangerous is just that. Michael always picked the safe option as first single or 2nd single but the safe option also works as a 4th or 5th single imo.

Take Scream it was such an easy and safe choice for first single. It’s a duet with the then biggest female singer on the planet and his sister to booth. Why not stranger in Moscow as the first song? It would have gotten the deserved plaudits. Now it got snowed in and forgotten after 4 singles. That Janet duet would have worked as a 5th single.

@wendijane give in to me as first single would be suitably epic too

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

I have a reason for it to be the first single, namely it indeed doesn’t have much single appeal lol. Release it as the 6th single and it will make no impact but as a first single people expect something special or different and Dangerous is just that. Michael always picked the safe option as first single or 2nd single but the safe option also works as a 4th or 5th single imo.

Take Scream it was such an easy and safe choice for first single. It’s a duet with the then biggest female singer on the planet and his sister to booth. Why not stranger in Moscow as the first song? It would have gotten the deserved plaudits. Now it got snowed in and forgotten after 4 singles. That Janet duet would have worked as a 5th single.

@wendijane give in to me as first single would be suitably epic too

I just can't stop loving you was a safe choice?

 

[filmandmusic]

I just can't stop loving you was a safe choice?

Yes a bland love ballad is what I consider safe. But to be honest I’m surprised he didn’t go for just good friends lol

Smooth Criminal was the song to go to imo

 

[Prometheus77]

Dangerous was a huge success in life performances. It definitely has mass appeal. But I would've been fine with it being the last single, as planned.

Yes. Because of the performance, in a stadium full of fans. But on it's own. Just the song. Needing many people to buy it, to become a hit. I don't think so. Apart from BOW, none of the singles really fared all that well in the US.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

You can't just reveal too much of what was on your hands. They weren't trying to just blow everything they had. They wanted to continually spin a record for years. That's why Thriller ended up lasting 2 years.

Releasing Smooth Criminal sans Moonwalker would've been a mistake of the highest caliber.

But I kinda see what you're saying because I wanted Chicago and Unbreakable first, @filmandmusic.

 

[filmandmusic]

Yes. Because of the performance, in a stadium full of fans. But on it's own. Just the song. Needing many people to buy it, to become a hit. I don't think so. Apart from BOW, none of the singles really fared all that well in the US.

Remember the time was really close to nr 1 though, I also think give in to me should have been released there.

 

[Prometheus77]

Take Scream it was such an easy and safe choice for first single. It’s a duet with the then biggest female singer on the planet and his sister to booth. Why not stranger in Moscow as the first song? It would have gotten the deserved plaudits. Now it got snowed in and forgotten after 4 singles. That Janet duet would have worked as a 5th single.

Or nobody would have cared by the time they got around releasing it. It was the first single, available before the album and still it didn't go to #1 in the US.

 

[filmandmusic]

You can't just reveal too much of what was on your hands. They weren't trying to just blow everything they had. They wanted to continually spin a record for years. That's why Thriller ended up lasting 2 years.

Releasing Smooth Criminal sans Moonwalker would've been a mistake of the highest caliber.

But I kinda see what you're saying because I wanted Chicago and Unbreakable first, @filmandmusic.

In hindsight we all know better lol. The fact is that the bad album order worked. It was an incredible run of hits. So my opinion about this is simply irrelevant.

 

[filmandmusic]

Or nobody would have cared by the time they got around releasing it. It was the first single, available before the album and still it didn't go to #1 in the US.

Yes I still don’t get why it did not hit nr 1, if I had been a betting man I would have put my house on it and lost it lol

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Or nobody would have cared by the time they got around releasing it. It was the first single, available before the album and still it didn't go to #1 in the US.

It was leaked before the album was available, that's how high in demand MJ music was. They were playing it on radio before it was supposed to be. That's bleeding the revenue potential. Another reason why Leaks Are Bad.

Same thing happened to You Rock My World. And Xscape. And Hold My Hand. Y'all think the songs not being paid for with money makes it bad or unsellable? It's called piracy. It ruins artists careers. Remember that the next time you don't wanna pay for some music.

 

[SmoothCriminal1995]

I personally have a theory that the Dangerous singles and tour would have been even greater had the album not been finished so late

In hindsight the Bad era was definition of perfect timing and dedication all round. Credit to Mike he earned the success that the Bad era brought him. He didn't stop working for nearly 3 years straight

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

In hindsight we all know better lol. The fact is that the bad album order worked. It was an incredible run of hits. So my opinion about this is simply irrelevant.

I think smooth criminal would've been better as the 6th song instead of the 7th. Another Part of Me, that one did slow the potential. Hate to say it cause it's my favorite song from there. But it was mishandled there. It was already heard anyway.

 

[Prometheus77]

Yes I still don’t get why it did not hit nr 1, if I had been a betting man I would have put my house on it and lost it lol

Yeah. Me too. I like to think the american public sucks and they dropped the ball when it came to MJ's singles post Bad. 2 huge fanbases and they can't get that damn song to #1. Infuriating.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Yes I still don’t get why it did not hit nr 1, if I had been a betting man I would have put my house on it and lost it lol

The song leaked.

 

[filmandmusic]

The song leaked.

That’s a shame if that is why it didn’t go nr 1. How long before the single release did it leak?

 

[DuranDuran]

Yes. Because of the performance, in a stadium full of fans. But on it's own. Just the song. Needing many people to buy it, to become a hit. I don't think so. Apart from BOW, none of the singles really fared all that well in the US.

Because like I mentioned New Jack Swing was getting old in the USA in 1992. Dangerous (the album) was released late 1991, so that year doesn't really count. If he had released it a few years earlier, then it would likely have been more popular. Jam was popular on R&B radio. Mike didn't really have the New Jack Swing image like Bobby Brown, Bell Biv DeVoe, & TLC. Look at how they dressed compared to Mike basically having the same fashion style he always had. Mike was also an older artist and the others were younger and had more appeal to teens & young adults of the time, just like New Kids On The Block in the late 1980s. NKOTB, MC Hammer, & Kid n Play had Saturday Morning cartoons.

Around that time in the USA, Soundscan changed how singles & albums charted too.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

THE POP LIFE; Screaming About 'Scream' (Published 1995)

www.nytimes.com

Here's the article that discussed it, if you got New York Times free trials of anything. From Wikipedia:

Two weeks before the official release of "Scream", Jackson happened to hear it on a Los Angeles radio station. The station was playing "Scream" once an hour until served with a cease and desist order from Epic Records. Two other stations in Philadelphia also received similar orders. All involved denied that Epic leaked them the song early. The song had been a closely guarded secret by the label and most staff members were not allowed access to a copy.

Though they potentially faced legal action, the Los Angeles radio station programmer noted that, "some things are more important... The record company was furious, lawyers were involved and the situation got hairy... But on a release as big as Michael Jackson's, there's no way we're going to wait if we receive a leak. It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity because his security is really insane."

This same thing happened in miniature with Thriller 40, a cd leaked out two days before. People were tripping cause of a glitch error that affected tracks, they thought it was the Estates fault for a manufacturing error. (The sound quality is still mostly bad though. Anyhoo...)


Scream was still the first song to debut at #5 on the Billboard 100 in history. You Are Not Alone became the first to be at #1. So overall, MJ was still making huge gains. It just really took some wind out of the sails there.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Take Scream it was such an easy and safe choice for first single. It’s a duet with the then biggest female singer on the planet and his sister to booth. Why not stranger in Moscow as the first song? It would have gotten the deserved plaudits. Now it got snowed in and forgotten after 4 singles. That Janet duet would have worked as a 5th single.

Also, at least in the US, Scream was a Double A single with Childhood. Basically "Childhood" was the lead single for HIStory. Is that a "safe choice"?

 

[DuranDuran]

Yes I still don’t get why it did not hit nr 1, if I had been a betting man I would have put my house on it and lost it lol

From what I remember Scream didn't get a whole lot of radio airplay in the US, at least not on Top 40 radio. I recall the R&B station would play the remix with Naughty By Nature. It hit #5 just on single sales, but it dropped fast on the Hot 100 without radio play. It was You Are Not Alone that was heavily played. Some stations started to play it while Scream was still the release and You Are Not Alone wasn't even a single yet.

I think a better bet for 1st single would have been This Time Around because Notorious B.I.G. was really hot off his debut album and Dallas Austin was one of TLC's producers and they were popular too. Janet had still been releasing singles from her 1993 Janet album around that time, so she was kind of played out when Scream was released. So the duet was probably not as big of a deal as it would have been if Janet had not had anything out for awhile. It's like during the Bad era, Get It by Stevie Wonder was a single in the US. It was a top 10 R&B hit, but got little if any pop radio airplay and it only reached the 80s on the Hot 100. In this case, it was Mike that was overexposed from multiple singles when Stevie's single was released.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

From what I remember Scream didn't get a whole lot of radio airplay in the US, at least not on Top 40 radio. I recall the R&B station would play the remix with Naughty By Nature. It hit #5 just on single sales, but it dropped fast on the Hot 100 without radio play. It was You Are Not Alone that was heavily played. Some stations started to play it while Scream was still the release and You Are Not Alone wasn't even a single yet.

I think a better bet for 1st single would have been This Time Around because Notorious B.I.G. was really hot off his debut album and Dallas Austin was one of TLC's producers and they were popular too. Janet had still been releasing singles from her 1993 Janet album around that time, so she was kind of played out when Scream was released. So the duet was probably not as big of a deal as it would have been if Janet had not had anything out for awhile. It's like during the Bad era, Get It by Stevie Wonder was a single in the US. It was a top 10 R&B hit, but got little if any pop radio airplay and it only reached the 80s on the Hot 100. In this case, it was Mike that was overexposed from multiple singles when Stevie's single was released.

Again I say, what about the leaks?

 

[mj_frenzy]

I think Black Or White as first single didn't represent the album best, but made sense given it being one of the most radio friendly track on the record.

But the 'Black Or White' lead single represented the 'Dangerous' album best (musically and thematically) because:

The 'Black Or White' lead single combines several different musical genres, just like the 'Dangerous' album which also combines several different musical genres.

Also, the 'Black Or White' lead single touches upon racial themes (the song is a plea for racial tolerance and harmony), and these themes constitute also a central part of the 'Dangerous' album.

 

[DuranDuran]

Again I say, what about the leaks?

What leaks? I don't follow that kind of thing and neither does the general mainstream public. Like they don't follow bootlegs either. Anyway that would have nothing to do with getting radio airplay. To this day, I literally have only heard the Blood On The Dance Floor song 2 times on any radio station. And one of them was on a Kiss It Or Diss It/Rush It Or Flush It where radio stations back then would play a song for listeners to vote on it to be played or not. It got dissed, so they didn't play it again. I did use to see the Wyclef remix video on TV, but never the original version. The one that got dissed was the original mix and one of the DJs said it sounded dated, so was glad he didn't have to listen to it again by playing it.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

What leaks? I don't follow that kind of thing and neither does the general mainstream public. Like they don't follow bootlegs either. Anyway that would have nothing to do with getting radio airplay.

They started playing Scream on the radio 2 weeks before they were supposed to. I think that would impact sales.