[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ I think court's have certain procedures and schedules they have to follow. We don't know why the Judge chose that date. I don't think MJ's anniversary was in his mind.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Im sure the judge wouldve known i mean cmon the day he died was all over the news and still ppl talk bout it each year on tv etc


I personally think he chose that date on purpose
 
Victory22;3939487 said:
If this monstrosity of a case does make it to the judicial system stage Wade is so going to get his backside handed to him in a court of law. It’s time for this molestation BS to be confronted and destroyed. Wade is hoping for the same thing KJ was hoping for with the AEG case. He is hoping for an out of court settlement but it’s not going to happen. History of MJ has proven it doesn’t make the lying vultures go away it only breeds more vultures to try and feed off name.

Unfortunately i dont think it ever will be destroyed. MJ was found not guilty in a court of law but still people felt he was guilty. I guess sometimes the truth doesn't set you free.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Im sure the judge wouldve known i mean cmon the day he died was all over the news and still ppl talk bout it each year on tv etc


I personally think he chose that date on purpose

That he knows the date of MJ's death does not mean he chose the date to screw Michael.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If The Judge lets Robson's claim go ahead then he/she is either an idiot or they are a blatant Michael Jackson hater. Common sense should tell anyone that Robson is talking out of his ass

I wouldn't trust every judge, all they do is screw the justice system and of course if they judge is an MJ hater, then I'll give that judge a great big can of whoop @$$.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It's very obvious what Tom Sneddon's motives were when he fails to recognize that the joint probe by DCFS and the Los Angeles Police Department ran from February 14-27 and, the memo states, the "investigation by the Sensitive Case Unit concluded the allegations of neglect and sexual abuse to be unfounded both by the LAPD-Wilshire Division and the Department."


dcfsmemo2.gif



 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

DISGUSTING!
This is all going to backfire on Wade and whoever's working with him. He's claiming that all that he said and swore an oath on was a LIE before, so why would people believe him now? Has he not thought this through at all? He's making himself look like a complete idiot.
This makes me sick.
Nevertheless, as sickening and exausting as this all is, the truth will prevail.
We must fight this will strength, wisdom, and love, as the people making these disgusting allegations seem to lack all of that.
We know the truth.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

To me it just shows how bad MJ's luck was. Ppl are just out to piss on his legacy.

Sometimes when I overanalyse I wonder if Wade's side pushed for that month, pretending the attorneys were busy until then. I mean, the judge looks at his calendar for a date. Of course he has a busy calendar. Next, his date has to coincide with a free date from Michael's attorney's and Wade's atorneys. Wade's attorneys could pretend that their calendar is busy until June forcing the date to be pushed to June 2014.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Sometimes when I overanalyse I wonder if Wade's side pushed for that month, pretending the attorneys were busy until then. I mean, the judge looks at his calendar for a date. Of course he has a busy calendar. Next, his date has to coincide with a free date from Michael's attorney's and Wade's atorneys. Wade's attorneys could pretend that their calendar is busy until June forcing the date to be pushed to June 2014.


I guess it's possible.
If Wade is looking for a payday then coinciding court dates with significant MJ dates will add pressure on the estate to make the problem go away.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

DISGUSTING!
This is all going to backfire on Wade and whoever's working with him. He's claiming that all that he said and swore an oath on was a LIE before, so why would people believe him now? Has he not thought this through at all? He's making himself look like a complete idiot.
This makes me sick. /QUOTE]


I have no doubt that Wade thought this through-and I don't believe he just went crazy or was always crazy. I think he was career driven from childhood and had a pushy stage mom to help him along. Things were great, now they're not, and this is his only opportunity to make a lot of money-a lot of BIG MONEY.
It's amazing what people will do when money is involved-even to people you love.
But irregardless, everything he has said so far has been counter argued wirh documented fact by fans on this board-so I don't see how he can possibly win anything.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Cry Wolf Wade!!! Boo Hoo !!!Play the record Over and Over Pointless same tune.... Cry wolf wade!!All for $ Wade!!
What a great friend you were.:angry:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^ that french fries song have me cracking up.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Listening to what T-Mez said about AJ concerning the 93 case and her new found "unnerving" of June Chandler 05 trial testimony, is not at all surprising! Saying she is a journo and want to sound objective! It's exactly what I was thinking! But, it's still sad that she would say that! Especially, if she has never investigated the 93 case and defend him on the 05 trial. For me personally that doesn't make much sense to defend him in one case and have doubt about another, when it involves the same accusations! o_O So I really hope that she does FINALLY do her investigation...really don't know why all these yrs it hasn't happen yet? lol She is a Journo after all...so what the excuse? Anyway, still appreciate her book! But, if some of us think that it messes up her message and defense of him with what she said about 93...imagine someone from the general public who don't know what we do? SMH So frustrating! :no:

Edit: Hmm...just heard T-Mez say that there was no Insurance company that paid the 94 settlement? WHAT? I thought there was? So is he saying MJ paid the settlement then?
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

About Jones, she got a lot of attacks and was shunned. Maybe now as she gets older, she feels her stance did not help her career.

^^Oh just listened, it seems it was prepared as though an insurance company would settle it.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

About Jones, she got a lot of attacks and was shunned. Maybe now as she gets older, she feels her stance did not help her career.

^^Oh just listened, it seems it was prepared as though an insurance company would settle it.
Right, is what I heard as well...But, isn't their evidence that it was settled by a insurance company though? Wasn't their some type of evidence presented to Judge Melville from T-Mez during the 05 trial showing proof it was settled by an insurance company? Because The Pros (Sneedon) was trying to bring in the 94 settlement as evidence to poison the jury against MJ, and the Judge ruled in favor of the defense after this info by T-mez was shown. I think is was something called a memo something?...God can't remember the legal term! =/

Plus, a popular book for MJ fans by LIsa Campbell (a MJ fan) called The King Of Pop's Darkest Hour names the Insurance company from what I recall, said it was Transamerica?! Am I wrong here? I think this is important to clear up! It's one of the many arguments against MJ haters that there was a insurance company that settlement that case and not MJ...and now it never happened? What?! SMH I mean for me if it's not true then fine, I can still defend MJ in other ways. Like how he wanted the Criminal case to go before the Civil and when he was denied it's when there was a settlement, and that is understandable cause he wanted to protect his Fifth amendment rights.

Which is something people like T-mez and AJ need to remember, say and understand too! But, I never ever hear this as a defense from them and others in the public eye! I think it can really help the public understand the settlement if they understood how different the law was in LA during the 93 case. Seriously, I'm gonna have to one day call into one of these shows to say what I wanna say...cause all I get is frustrated with so many contradictions and so on! -_-
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, Mez said an insurance company did not pay it and to be honest I don't know why fans made it such a vital point of their defense when there was never solid evidence of an insurance company paying it. In fact, there was an article back in 1994 which referenced letters between Transamerica and Johnny Coachran in which Coachran tries to get them pay it but they refuse. So this defense by fans was always pretty shaky and I really don't see why it is so important at all who paid it. How if the insurance company paid it it would mean MJ was innocent and if he paid it from his own pocket it would mean he was guilty? Really that whole argument about the importance of who paid it is fallacious both on haters' and on fans' side. An insurance company paying it would not make him innocent and him paying it would not make him guilty.

To understand why Michael settled read Geraldine Hughes' book and that's the best, most logical explanation. You don't need fallacious arguments about insurance companies which either happened or not. Here are the reasons of the settlement: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...inst-Michael?p=3826420&viewfull=1#post3826420

Right, is what I heard as well...But, isn't their evidence that it was settled by a insurance company though? Wasn't their some type of evidence presented to Judge Melville from T-Mez during the 05 trial showing proof it was settled by an insurance company? Because The Pros (Sneedon) was trying to bring in the 94 settlement as evidence to poison the jury against MJ, and the Judge ruled in favor of the defense after this info by T-mez was shown. I think is was something called a memo something?...God can't remember the legal term! =/

I think the Judge did not allow the settlement issue in because Jordan did not testify.

It's one of the many arguments against MJ haters that there was a insurance company that settlement that case and not MJ...

It was always a fallacious argument. I have no idea why fans made it their main defense of the settlement. I guess it's just simplier to use than to learn about all the legal back and forths between Michael's and the Chandler's side as it's shown in Geraldine Hughes' book.
 
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what about the quote from the court documents in this video ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTh2W1H3K9o

On March 22, 2005, a motion was filed in court on behalf of Michael Jackson and within the said court document, numerous statements were made that an insurance carrier had negotiated and settled the 1993 civil case. The relevant section from the document is transcribed below:

“The 1993 Civil Settlement was Made by Mr. Jackson’s Insurance Company and was not within Mr.Jackson’s control. The settlement agreement was for global claims of negligence and the lawsuit was defended by Mr. Jackson’s insurance carrier. The insurance carrier negotiated and paid the settlement, over the protests of Mr.Jackson and his personal legal counsel.

It is unfair for an insurance company’s settlement to be now held against Mr. Jackson or for the Settlement Agreement to be admitted as evidence of Mr. Jackson’s prior conduct or guilt. Mr. Jackson could NOT CONTROL NOR INTERFERE with his insurance carrier’s demand to settle the dispute”.

well, re reading it I knew at least the part about control and interfere was bullshit. It was his choice no one forced him to settle.

That was the defense motion at the time. Does Mez say they lied in 2005 ? <_<
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ If you go to the end of that document (4:17) you can see it was signed by Brian Oxman. That would explain the BS...

I never thought this made any sense to be honest. Fortunately it wasn't Oxman who was his main defense attorney. He might have ended up in jail then.

At the end of the day the settlement was mentioned and talked about when June testified and when Larry Feldman testified, so it's not something the jury did not know about. The Francia settlement too was mentioned during the Francias' testimonies.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Blue you raised some points I was thinking about while TMez was talking, but I did not want to say anything to prevent derailing the thread. I too felt he never mentioned the correct amount of the settlement, never brought in the legal aspects that caused a settlement, but claimed all lawyers were involved. OK so it was a horrible decision, but the public needs to know that it was not just a bad legal decision on the part of Michael's attorneys but that the decision was also based on specific legal issues. Of course he claims he was not a party to that case, but I feel he knows he will be asked about it all the time, so he could do a little research on it so he can talk about it more intelligently.

I agree with him that the settlement paved the way for the tickler, Gavin, and Wade.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He can't talk about it to the media. not the details, that was part of the deal.

Cochran did Feldman a favor we all know that, both of them left with millions. MJ was so naive.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He can't talk about it to the media. not the details, that was part of the deal.

Cochran did Feldman a favor we all know that, both of them left with millions. MJ was so naive.

Are you talking about the details of the settlement? I don't think anyone said they wanted TMez to talk about that. Rather, it was about the legal reasons why a settlement was chosen be explained in the same way Hughes explained in her book. Radio has more listeners. Also, TMez gets to go on tv more.

I see Wade is keeping quiet again. Good.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ugh... Brian Oxman...f*ckin douche! SMH Okay well that clear it up then. =(

And another important thing to is that in the Settlement the Chandlers denied MJ doing any wrongdoing too! Said they understood it was a business decision and for all to move on! But, so many haters ignore this lil info! Mmmm
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

You did Michael so wrong wade.
So wrong
You are filthy.
You sleep easy???
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He can't talk about it to the media. not the details, that was part of the deal.

Cochran did Feldman a favor we all know that, both of them left with millions. MJ was so naive.

I think the whole experience of being accused, having Jordan lie like that, having to perform in the midst of it, having his properties searched, the media explode with sleaze and lies, having the extortion charge go nowhere, and the final indignity of the strip search made him aware that as T. Mez said in his recent blogtalk, California law heavily favors the prosecution in child abuse cases--it was all too overwhelming with no relief in sight except more of the same if there was a civil trial. Remember that snake Feldman was trying to get ANOTHER frickin' strip search--oh, yes--as well as access to all his financial records at the time they settled.

I agree T. Mez needs to talk more about the legitimate reasons for settling and also to talk in more detail about how CA law favors the prosecution in child abuse cases. I read that one CA law related to child abuse cases was actually overturned by the Supreme Court as unconstituional--that's how far CA bent over backwards to help the child accuser. IMO this all can be traced back to the McMartin case and the hysteria at the time re satanic rituals and child abuse. In McMartin, the prosecutors interviewed 400 preschoolers and these kids talked about animal sacrifices, tunnels underground, human sacrifice and it was all believed despite no evidence. This was the most expensive and longest trial in USA history and took place in LA. This child abuse hysteria was all over the USA but the McMartin trial is the most infamous. No one was prosecuted after all that time and expense. The trial went on for 7 years!

IMO T. Mez is not up on the 93 case--he keeps saying he was not involved--and neither is A. Jones. He is also pretty foggy even about the 2005 case as he did not seem to remember Blanca Francia's testimony about whether or not she saw a frickin' "image" in the bathroom shower. His main point that the jury was disgusted with all these witnesses who changed their stories was a good one, though. He said some really good things in the interview about how MJ was betrayed. He also clearly said to one caller--I don't 'think' MJ was not a child molester--I KNOW.

I think he is right about the insurance money as I read elsewhere that MJ had to make payments to Jordan and made the last payment shortly before his death.

edit: If the insurance co refused to pay, this helps us to understand the line in Money: "Insurance, where do your loyalties lie?"

I agree that A. Jones and R. Sullivan both imply or even directly state that MJ was attracted to children--and that is not far from saying he had the tendencies that could lead to child molestation and this is what T Mez doesn't get and why he tends to defend them. I think he sincerely wants to clear MJ's name 1000% of the charges but he thinks A Jones and R Sullivan are doing that. However, Jones and Sullivan really need to do more IMO to clarify their position. A Jones saying MJ was 'in love' with Jordan--where did that come from? Why is she making such statements? It is NOT helpful.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

MJ had far more longer friendships with other children at that time and after, that were not named Jordan Chandler. But, because Jordan Chandler was the one who accused MJ of Molestation and got money out of his lie, MJ must have really been "in love" with the bastard! That's according to these people's like AJ's logic! :smilerolleyes:

If this kind of thinking is what is gonna be held up as "Objective Journalism" well I don't have time for that! I rather stick with proof and facts. But, hey....guess that just makes me an MJ fanatic then?! WOW! -_-
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I agree T. Mez needs to talk more about the legitimate reasons for settling and also to talk in more detail about how CA law favors the prosecution in child abuse cases. I read that one CA law related to child abuse cases was actually overturned by the Supreme Court as unconstituional--that's how far CA bent over backwards to help the child accuser. IMO this all can be traced back to the McMartin case and the hysteria at the time re satanic rituals and child abuse. In McMartin, the prosecutors interviewed 400 preschoolers and these kids talked about animal sacrifices, tunnels underground, human sacrifice and it was all believed despite no evidence. This was the most expensive and longest trial in USA history and took place in LA. This child abuse hysteria was all over the USA but the McMartin trial is the most infamous. No one was prosecuted after all that time and expense. The trial went on for 7 years!

If it was in any European country I'm sure Wade would be laughed out of court with his crazy allegations and impossible claims such as not knowing about Michael's Estate until March 2013. But since it's the US where things can take a pretty irrational turn when it comes to child abuse allegations and yeah people bend backwards to give credit to accusers even if they don't make any sense that's what makes me nervous about it. There's nothing people can't justify about an accuser's behavior, no matter how inconsistent and crazy it is and that's just scary. Child abuse allegations really are the new witch hunt. Yes, there are many real cases, but there are also so many people taking advangate of the fact that in such cases the public automatically tends to take the side of the accuser and the accused gets stigmatized immediately and how difficult it is to wash off that stigma.

BTW, in the McMartin case, despite of its questionable claims, the main accused, Ray Bucky was never even properly acquitted. Both trials ended with a hung jury. And the accusers talked about witches flying, being flushed down in a toilet, all kind of crazy stuff and it was shown how the psychiatrist lead those kids make accusations and how the mother of the first accuser who started the whole madness was a crazy woman. Still it wasn't enough for a jury to fully acquit him...

But then this is the country where books like Michelle Remembers ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers ) make sense to a lot of people and where such a book could start a whole nationwide moral panic in which investigators used that book as a guide in their investigations...
This kind of reminds me of how the MJ prosecution used Victor Gutierrez's book as a guide.


IMO T. Mez is not up on the 93 case--he keeps saying he was not involved--and neither is A. Jones. He is also pretty foggy even about the 2005 case as he did not seem to remember Blanca Francia's testimony about whether or not she saw a frickin' "image" in the bathroom shower. His main point that the jury was disgusted with all these witnesses who changed their stories was a good one, though. He said some really good things in the interview about how MJ was betrayed.

To be fair to Mez I think radio (or TV shows) are rarely a good platform for a discussion of such complicated cases in depth. You can only touch surface things in such interviews. I think the best form for an in-depth analysis is a written form, like articles and essays, and that's unfortunately our disadvantage because most people just don't have the patience for that and they'd rather run with catchy headlines and soundbites (as most people do unfortunately when it comes to the MJ case) without knowing what's behind them.

I agree that A. Jones and R. Sullivan both imply or even directly state that MJ was attracted to children--and that is not far from saying he had the tendencies that could lead to child molestation and this is what T Mez doesn't get and why he tends to defend them. I think he sincerely wants to clear MJ's name 1000% of the charges but he thinks A Jones and R Sullivan are doing that. However, Jones and Sullivan really need to do more IMO to clarify their position. A Jones saying MJ was 'in love' with Jordan--where did that come from? Why is she making such statements? It is NOT helpful.


Yes, Mez's support for Sullivan is annoying and I will never agree with him it's a good book for MJ in any shape or form. Mez said in this interview that it provides a good analysis of the 1993 case and Sullivan concludes that MJ was innocent. It's like we read totally different books. His analysis of the 1993 case is anything but good. He simply interviewed Ray Chandler and mostly went with what he said uncritically. Just like he did with other people he interviewed like Marc Schaffel and Howard Mann. He did not even do basic background check on certain stories of these people which could have showed him that they were lies and these people had certain agendas to make up certain stories. Sullivan also gives credit to every tabloid rumour ever said about MJ, never questions proven liars like Adrian McMannus on crazy tabloid stories. How is that a good book? It seems to me that Mez is so desperate for support by a mainstream journalist that he embraces anyone who is not totally, 100% vile to MJ, which is sad. Sullivan is only "unbiased" if the only criteria for unbiased is not being an MJ fan. But in reality just because you aren't an MJ fan that does not mean you have no biases. Maybe Sullivan meant well, I don't know, but he's not a good investigative journalist at all. He uncritically accepts tabloid crap and claims by certain people when with a little background check he could have found how many of those things are not true. Anyway, I think we will have to accept that Mez has a different opinion about this book than we do and move on. I still love Mez it's just I think on this particular book he is pretty misguided and short-sighted.

As for AJ, if her purpose with that quote was to show herself as "unbiased" and "professional" it went horribly wrong. In that case she should have just said: "I did not investigate the 93 case so I'm not going to comment on that." That would be the fair and professional thing to say for her. But to say "I didn't investigate the 93 case but I think MJ was in love with Jordan" is just very unprofessional. And it did not help that she arrogantly called the caller "honey-bunny" - very, very unprofessional. How will that help her have a professional image?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The McMartin trials are a stain on jurisprudence. I lived in LA at the time and it was a perfect example, along with MJ's 2005 trial, why the public needs to take a step back and actually think. Hysterics and a mob mentality are incredibly dangerous. Evan Chandler used the climate to perfect tactical advantage.
 
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