[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

You did not go on about how Mez should have told the jury in 2005 that MJ was asexual? Oh, must have been "your brother" then. LOL.

No I didn't go about TM telling or not telling the jury anything. And I don't think MJ was asexual and never said that he was.
There are three of us here who read this board not just my bro and me and we don't agree on everything.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It's not that I don't understand it's that I never saw any document where Robson submitted his claims about molestation as "undisputed facts".
Did you see such a doc?
I only saw his complaint.

I did not see the full "undisputed facts" docs (just the one about Blanca Francia), but you can see references to those in the Judge's ruling:

261yk2f.jpg




So yes, Robson's "undisputed facts" did contain allegations of molestation. Once again you have to understand how summary judgement works and this as to why those were "undisputed facts" for the purpose of summary judgement even though the Estate made sure to note every time that they do not actually believe those claims to be true:

148doqd.jpg
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I never said they are doing a crap job I said they are handling the case like a bunch of technocrats. Just like they are handling it in the media.




Keep in mind these are the same bozos who made MJ settle in 1993, Branca and Weitzman. Brilliant interpretation of the law, wasn't it?
This is the same Weitzman who in 2005 was on TV telling everyone that he CHOOSES to believe MJ is not a pedophile.
You don't see any problem with that, do you?
They didn't care about MJ's image then they don't care about it now. They cared about money then they care about it now.
I don't understand what your agenda is here. Are you just upset about how they're handling the case and you think they're not forceful enough-or do you want TM to be hired as the attorney?
Sure, I would love Weitzman and Branca to slam their hands down on their desk and scream out when interviewers ask them questions about child molestation-like I did myself at work in 93, when this came over as "breaking news" on the radio. But after that, and especially after the settlement, I never lost it again-I tried to remain professional and usually I left the room, because it was such an emotional subject for me, that I thought I might jump over my desk and kill somebody talking about it. I think Weitzman and Branca are handling this in a professional manor, and sticking to the statute of limitations because this will completely nip in the bud anybody who thinks, say, 10 years from now, that they'll file a child molestation suit.

The FEW media outlets that did cover the dismissal of the case, ALL said in the next paragraph that Robson had sworn in court that Michael had never ever abused him and pointed out the length of time that it took to file a complaint and the number of years he constantly defended and praised Michael. One media outlet even said Robson had defended Michael for sixteen years! They went all the way back.

Between your posts about the way they're handling the case, and the posts from the Chandler book that are pretty salacious, it has me all worked up. Maybe that's the intent. To get everybody on the forum more worked up than we already are-I think we're pretty upset and distraught since this started.

But believe me, even IF the attorneys didn't care about Michael's image for personal reasons (and I don't believe that), they do care about his image because of future sales and the money they make from him. If his image is destroyed, the Estate is destroyed. Period.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

No I didn't go about TM telling or not telling the jury anything. And I don't think MJ was asexual and never said that he was.
There are three of us here who read this board not just my bro and me and we don't agree on everything.

OK, so it was "your brother".

And putting aside "your brother" you expressed dissatisfaction with Mez, actually as Castor as well: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...tate/page747?p=4089348&viewfull=1#post4089348

Which is your right of course, I am not saying it is not. My point was only that Mez was criticized by you as well, not only Weitzman. And it's always the same. "He should have done this, he should have done that, why did he not state this, why did he not state that?" Lawyers are not perfect of course and they are not above criticism. But sometimes IMO we should take a step back and accept our own limitations as fans - eg. that we may not know everything about how the law works and why it was a necessity to state some things this way or that way or at this or that stage of the process. And that maybe, just maybe these professional lawyers may know US law a bit better than we do here.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

OK, so it was "your brother".

And putting aside "your brother" you expressed dissatisfaction with Mez, actually as Castor as well: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...tate/page747?p=4089348&viewfull=1#post4089348

"He should have done this, he should have done that, why did he not state this, why did he not state that?"


As you can see that was a response to your own post where you informed me about the two Arvizo brothers contradicting each other about the magazines.
I just noticed that TM never talked about that and some other things but I didn't express dissatisfaction with him or argued that he should have mentioned those things to the jury
to get a better result just that what he missed should be used against Robson and Arvizo if they get a civil trial as they should be hit with everything they can find against his accusers.

Why, do you think TM used every possible ammunition? Obviously not. But that's OK.
Missing those points didn't make any difference in 2005 and it's understandable since there were so many things against the Arvizos.

Which is your right of course, I am not saying it is not. My point was only that Mez was criticized by you as well, not only Weitzman.

No I didn't criticize him and I don't see how you can interpret my post that way. I didn't say anything negative about TM just noted things he missed and should be used against
Robson and Arvizo if they get a civil trial.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I am his brother. I was the one who argued about the bed sharing stuff.

With quite a spectacular result :rollin:



I don't understand what your agenda is here. Are you just upset about how they're handling the case and you think they're not forceful enough-or do you want TM to be hired as the attorney?

You bet I'm upset because they are not forceful enough. They have done nothing to protect MJ's image (which is not the same as protecting the Estate's money) and said some really stupid stuff both in and outside of the courtroom.
They really don't understand that this is not just a battle of lawyers and the letter of the law.
For example, after Robson submitted those testimonies I saw media "report" which quoted the prosecution motion about Francia and said nothing about the other side of the story.
At least the Estate should have tried to highlight that there is another side.
Not a guarantee that the media would pick it up but if they don't even try...
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Oh no I hope this thread does not turn into lipstick alley
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

As you can see that was a response to your own post where you informed me about the two Arvizo brothers contradicted each other about the magazines.
I just noticed that TM never talked about that and some other things but I didn't express dissatisfaction with him or argued that he should have mentioned those things to the jury
to get a better result just that what he missed should be used against Robson and Arvizo if they get a civil trial as they should be hit with everything they can find against his accusers.

Why do you think TM mentioned used every possible ammunition? Obviously not. But that's OK.
Missing those points didn't make any difference in 2005 and it's understandable since there were so many things against the Arvizos.


No I didn't criticize him and I don't see how you can interpret my post that way. I didn't say anything negative about TM just noted things he missed and should be used against
Robson and Arvizo if they get a civil trial.

It isn't just me who had that impression from your posts: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...tate/page751?p=4089691&viewfull=1#post4089691

Let me state my point again: While some fans have deep knowledge in the allegations but "sometimes IMO we should take a step back and accept our own limitations as fans - eg. that we may not know everything about how the law works and why it was a necessity to state some things this way or that way or at this or that stage of the process. And that maybe, just maybe these professional lawyers may know US law a bit better than we do here".

I am not a lawyer and not even American. I try to study the referenced laws and precedents and then I always get a better understanding of why they made a certain argument the way they made it and when they made it and why they did not make other arguments instead. But I am still a layperson about US law.

And I am here to discuss the case not to bash the Estate or other lawyers of MJ all the time. Sometimes I do criticize them myself (esp. in terms of publicity) but when the thread is about to be turned into an Estate bash-fest I am not interested in that. Bash them if they lose this case and deserve it (hopefully not). But I cannot see why they should get bashed about the probate case when they just got it dismissed.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Attorneys in real life don't usually come screaming out all fire and fury like they do on Perry Mason or Law and Order. It's not that simple. I AM an American, and I make no pretense of understanding the law. I think I do, and then things happen that throw me for a loop. Just the information that I've read about the Chandler case in the last few years has left me agog-the rulings (to me) seem to violate every single civil right that any normal American would expect and deserve. Although I don't think the allegations themselves harmed Michael's image irreparably in America, I do think the settlement did. But I also don't think he had any choice but to settle, given the way the judge was ruling. I would have done the same. Most people don't know about all of this. So I don't trust judges-and that's why I've worried so about these cases.

This thing seemed like a cut and dry "toss it out of court" and Beckloff has given them multiple chances to amend and it's drug on and on and on. So I do think they're handling it the right way, and keeping the emotion out of it, and sticking to the letter of the law.

And as for the media, it was only the lowest of the lowest tabloids that even really covered it-and most people haven't read those. That may change, if the judge does do some crazy ruling, but for now, that is a blessing.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And as for the media, it was only the lowest of the lowest tabloids that even really covered it-and most people haven't read those. That may change, if the judge does do some crazy ruling, but for now, that is a blessing.

Yes, and those do not care about legal arguments anyway. They do not understand or even care what's going on in court the way we do here. They will only ever report the salacious, inflammatory allegations by Robson and his lawyers.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I did not see the full "undisputed facts" docs (just the one about Blanca Francia), but you can see references to those in the Judge's ruling:

261yk2f.jpg


OK so we have a document like this:
http://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/MJcase-signed.pdf

What you say is that every single undisputed fact has to be submitted in a document separate from the complaint
and claims in the complaint itself are not considered undisputed facts?
If they are not submitted separately then the judge cannot refer to those claims as undisputed facts in his summary judgement?

Once again you have to understand how summary judgement works and this as to why those were "undisputed facts" for the purpose of summary judgement even though the Estate made sure to note every time that they do not actually believe those claims to be true:

What is not clear in your argument is how the Estate submitting facts about Francia's depo would have changed the ruling?
And if it wouldn't have then why not fight on every possible front? Why let Robson bolster his claim that he is a poor abuse victim?
We all know why Robson submitted those testimonies. To generate sympathy and to bolster his chances for the civil case.
Why not inform the judge that he is using a proven liar's testimony to back up his story
if that cannot possibly hinder their effort to win the probate case?

You seriously don't believe that the judge would have allowed the claim against the Estate if they had submitted Francia's depo, do you?


I agree that it was not necessary. That's not the point. What is the problem is they let, once again, salacious claims go unchallenged both in court and consequently in the media
when they had the opportunity to challenge those claims.

It isn't just me who had that impression from your posts:

That was another post not the one you referred to.
I don't see how the heck you could conclude from that post that I criticized TM. I didn't. Your post about the magazines reminded me that there's a bunch of things the Estate's lawyers could use which were not used by TM.
And just because some are hypersensitive to anything anyone would say about TM not talking about some issues does not mean that I think he did a bad job.
It's a fact that TM didn't argue about a lot of things, but that's OK, he didn't have to.
The Estate however should do a much more aggressive job defending MJ.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, and those do not care about legal arguments anyway. They do not understand or even care what's going on in court the way we do here. They will only ever report the salacious, inflammatory allegations by Robson and his lawyers.
Correct-and the mainstream news follows suit now, and will, if it goes on to trial.
That's the reason I didn't know about all of the Chandler details until the last 5 years. I purposely did not watch any tabloid shows or read any tabloid magazines in 93 or 2005 because I knew Michael hadn't done it, and I just wanted to get straight facts. But just reading the blurb in the newspaper and watching the nightly news each night actually didn't help me, because, as I realized later, they pretty much just copied what the tabloids press was saying. I had no clue that they were winning the Arvizo case by watching the news, and was flabbergasted when the not guilty verdicts came in. Flabbergasted and hysterical.

But I say that only to confirm what you're saying-they only report the salacious, inflammatory stuff and not the real facts of cases any more. There has finally been some backlash about that in recent years, so I think the major networks and papers are trying to get back on track-but they're still pretty bad-they're going to print and report what will buy them readers.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Castor/Aldebaran. I already told you I am not interested in continuing of this useless debate about virtually nothing but your opinion that this particular issue about Blanca Francia's testimony in the Probate Court will be the thing why the Judge will decide in Robson's favour in the Civil Court. I'd rather discuss actual facts and legal matters than speculations about how the Judge might feel.
This is the same thing that you did as Aldebaran. Keeping going on and on and on about the same issue forever and not letting it go. (And you don't realize how this is, among others, a dead giveaway?)
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Castor/Aldebaran. I already told you I am not interested in continuing of this useless debate about virtually nothing but your opinion that this particular issue about Blanca Francia's testimony in the Probate Court will be the thing why the Judge will decide in Robson's favour in the Civil Court. I'd rather discuss actual facts and legal matters than speculations about how the Judge might feel.
This is the same thing that you did as Aldebaran. Keeping going on and on and on about the same issue forever and not letting it go. (And you don't realize how this is, among others, a dead giveaway?)

Talk about speculation.
You talk about me arguing with when I don't even argue anymore!
I have said repeatedly that I agree with you the Estate didn't have to make any point about Francia to win the case.
I simply asked you why you think the ruling would have been different if they had challenged Robson on that front?
Then you accused me of criticizing TM, which I didn't do, and how that was the same as criticizing the Estate for being wishy-washy, which I did do and for good reason.
I can't follow you sometimes.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Everything you asked have already been discussed. I told you already Im not interested in going on about the same stuff over and over again, especially when the whole discussion ultimately comes down to a simple speculation about the Judges feelings.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Everything you asked have already been discussed. I told you already Im not interested in going on about the same stuff over and over again, especially when the whole discussion ultimately comes down to a simple speculation about the Judges feelings.

Actually the issue whether submitting Fracia's depo would have impacted the ruling has nothing to do with the judge's feelings but
this whole thing has been travelling on two diverging tracks as apparently you don't understand what I would like to know and I don't understand why you think you have answered my question. Whatever.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Why don't we stop this conversation? Especially what could have, should have, would have been done in the past discussion?
 
I´ve seen this before, someone talking to themselves with different usernames..
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

"We signed off on the deal; that was it," said Mr. Feldman, after a private afternoon meeting in the chambers of Judge David Rothman of Santa Monica Superior Court. Mr. Jackson's two lawyers, Howard Weitzman and Johnnie Cochran Jr., were also at the meeting.


c27dd35ca6e1115


Mr. Jackson's lawyers emphasized today that the entertainer was not guilty of the accusations. "The resolution of this case is in no way an admission of guilt by Michael Jackson," said Mr. Cochran, reading a statement from himself and Mr. Weitzman. "In short, he is an innocent man who does not intend to have his career and his life destroyed by rumors and innuendo."
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/26/u...tles-suit-for-sum-said-to-be-in-millions.html
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

"We signed off on the deal; that was it," said Mr. Feldman, after a private afternoon meeting in the chambers of Judge David Rothman of Santa Monica Superior Court. Mr. Jackson's two lawyers, Howard Weitzman and Johnnie Cochran Jr., were also at the meeting.


c27dd35ca6e1115


Mr. Jackson's lawyers emphasized today that the entertainer was not guilty of the accusations. "The resolution of this case is in no way an admission of guilt by Michael Jackson," said Mr. Cochran, reading a statement from himself and Mr. Weitzman. "In short, he is an innocent man who does not intend to have his career and his life destroyed by rumors and innuendo."
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/26/u...tles-suit-for-sum-said-to-be-in-millions.html

A bunch of corrupt greedy liars.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Irrelevant IMO.
 
I'd like to see a letter from the Robson/ Safechuck lawyers like this one:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Lawyers’ Complete Apologies

[Herman Law letterhead]

June 5, 2015

[Dear Mr. Ancier,] [Dear Mr. Neuman,]

I sincerely apologize for bringing lawsuits against you on behalf of my former client Michael Egan. As you know, I withdrew from representing Mr. Egan two months after filing the complaints. Based on what I know now, I believe that I participated in making what I now know to be untrue and proveably false allegations against you. Had I known what I learned after filing the lawsuits, I would never have filed these claims against you. I deeply regret the pain, suffering and damage the lawsuits and publicity have caused you, and your family, friends, and colleagues.

I sincerely regret my role in this matter and for the harm that I caused. I have resolved this matter with compensation to you. I am hopeful that you can recover fully.

Very truly yours,

/s/ Jeffrey M. Herman
-------------------------------------------
Hollywood Sex Abuse Accuser's Lawyers Admit Filing "Totally Untrue" Claims

Over a year after teen sex abuse claims against Bryan Singer and three others rocked Hollywood and lit up the Internet, The Hollywood Reporter has learned that the then-lawyers for accuser Michael Egan have admitted to two of the formerly accused, Garth Ancier and David Neuman, that the allegations against them were untrue.

In connection with signed admissions, lawyers Jeff Herman of Florida and Mark Gallagher of Hawaii paid what Ancier’s representatives described as a “seven-figure” settlement to the two men, whom the lawyers now admit were wrongly accused. Both lawyers also apologized for the damage done by the lawsuits, which Herman had announced at a standing-room only press conference in Los Angeles featuring Egan and Egan’s tearful mother, Bonnie Mound.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hollywood-sex-abuse-accusers-lawyers-800601?utm_source=twitter
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ I think their lawyers are too involved in the case to apologize for it. To me it looks like they're not just representing them.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Screw that lawyer don't be sorry now. You filed that case knowing it was bull hoping for a big settlement now that it d I didn't happen you sorry? You tried to extort money now you sorry, Dumb mother@!@!@
 
myosotis;4093235 said:
I'd like to see a letter from the Robson/ Safechuck lawyers like this one:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Lawyers’ Complete Apologies
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hollywood-sex-abuse-accusers-lawyers-800601?utm_source=twitter
Yeah, but they only "apologized" because these two guys counter-sued them-and had to pay them SEVEN FIGURES. That apology letter was part of the settlement.
I know they dropped them, but I read somewhere that Bryan Singer reached some kind of separate settlement-has he counter sued or did this guy still say he molested him.
I know it's sealed-but have been wondering. This really got no press. And if you notice, they timed it for the opening of "X-Men." too. Strategy sound familiar?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

just interesting...

Ivy retweetete
Hollywood Reporter ?@THR June 7th

Hollywood Sex Abuse Accuser's Lawyers Admit Filing "Totally Untrue" Claims http://thr.cm/Oqe328
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Tell us something we dont know. all they care about is a big settlement.
 
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