[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That Jordan confession is a hoax, fans should not use it.


And I don't think he cannot talk because of the confidentiality agreement. He doesn't talk because he's a coward. As simple as that. If the confidentiality agreement was the thing that stopped him from telling the truth then there was a perfect opportunity for him in 2005 to tell the truth in a court (no confidentiality agreement can prohibit anyone from testifying). He didn't. No need to blame it on the confidentiality agreement or the law. There is no law prohibiting anyone telling the truth. He's just a coward. Period.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Mez tried to subpoena him for the Arvizo trial, because there were supposedly witnesses saying he admitted Michael never touched him. Coincidentally, he was out of the country to avoid something exactly like that happening.

Jordan was a kid when this all happened. I blame absolutely everything on Evan's shoulders for this. Yes he is an adult now, but there may be things going on we don't know about.

I do hope one day he will come clean. I was especially hopeful after Evan committed suicide, but it seems he'll probably stay mum the rest of his life.

To be honest, could you blame him? Especially with Evan gone, and most of the general public not willing to understand that EVAN was the one behind everything, Jordan probably fears for his life if he came clean. I don't blame him. Now t hat Michael is gone? I could definitely see him receiving death threats and actual attempts on his life.

That doesn't excuse the fact that he has not yet come clean, but if the case is as complicated as it is publicly (the entire 1993 shakedown), imagine what it's like for everyone who was actually involved.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Death threats? The only person ever threatening Jordan's life was his own father. MJ fans never did so why would they do if he did the right thing for a change and come clean? Sorry, but I'm so tired of fans making excuses for him. He's an adult. There is simply no excuse for him to let this lie live on that made Michael's life Hell (and continues to make his children's life a Hell) and that tarnishes his legacy and reputation like nothing else. Excuse me, if it's not Jordan Chandler I will feel sorry for.

The reason why he is not coming forward is because he's a coward. Nothing else. I have seen social media accounts related to him, he lives in huge luxury and carelessly on Michael's blood money. Obviously he does not want to be bothered in that luxury life style by inconveniences like a little bit of media attention for a couple of weeks if he told the truth. That is more important to him than to finish a lie that he and his family started and that tarnished an innocent man's reputation forever.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't know why some people feel the need to defend people who have hurt Michael or the person who killed him but it is stomach turning really
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'd never defend that scumbag coward but I knew that bastard Evan tried to sue Michael for discussing partially with Diane Sawyer the fact Jordan's description of Michael's genitals didn't match. I don't know if the lawsuit proceeded. Also when Bashit asked him about it, he said the law didn't permit him discussing the case, I assumed Jordan would be in the same situation. I'd never feel sorry for him either, yes, his SOB father made him being part of a disgusting plot to tarnish an innocent man when he WAS a child. Nowadays he's an adult he's as pig corrupt as his father because he doesn't dare to tell the truth. I don't know if he will ever have the balls to be a real man to clear Michael's name once and for all but I wish he suffers the time he's left, I wish many people isolates him for being a coward criminal and also points at him in disgust and outrage for the piece of shit Jordan is.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Death threats? The only person ever threatening Jordan's life was his own father.

This is not a defense, this is a fact: you are not Jordan Chandler, you DON'T KNOW that for a fact. Please remember we all wanted the FACTS and TRUTH presented in court for Michael during his trial - of course we know the entire Chandler fiasco was a sham, but the fact is you weren't there any more than I. We don't know every single detail. I find it shocking that Michael would receive death threats in his life but he did. People are whack jobs out there.

My point is that, it's possible that's what he's afraid of - and honestly with some factions of the fanbase, I don't blame him! Michael is one of the most beloved people on earth, I know that if my father had done what Evan did to Michael but I, his daughter, was the one reaping the benefits that it would definitely keep me quiet for a long time, because I know that nothing I said or did would keep anyone happy, and not to mention I'd damn well expect to hear that some crazies out there would want me dead. It's really not that far-fetched of an idea.

I don't know why some people feel the need to defend people who have hurt Michael or the person who killed him but it is stomach turning really

I'm sorry some people don't understand the difference between defending someone and just discussing a situation objectively. If you read correctly you would see that I said that Jordan's silence is NOT excused in my opinion. But the FACT is that we don't know the details and he has been in hiding for many years. And the FACT is that he was a MINOR when this happened - he is legally not one bit responsible for what his father did. It disgusts me as well. I don't know why this logic escapes some fans, but that is the fact of the matter and time frame, whether or not we like it.

We all know Michael was treated horribly and unfairly by the legal system and by those abusing it to hurt and extort him. However, it's the same legal system that did convict Murray and did in fact declare Michael innocent of the Arvizo charges. But that doesn't stop the FACTS of what happened at the time of the Chandler case, and what logistics might be in place now as a result of that situation. And the part that makes everyone mad is that we aren't privy to all of those things.

You, me, or anyone else on this forum or in the fan base - none of us are Jordan Chandler. We don't know what does or doesn't motivate him to keep his silence. All the evidence points to Michael's innocence and Evan's guilt of extortion, defamation libel, and of course false accusations...but guess what! He hasn't piped up yet and I doubt he will anytime soon. My comments were just a discussion as to WHY he may keep his silence.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

You know what, **** Jordan Chandler. That's how I feel about him. No matter how old he was or is today
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Quote Originally Posted by respect77 View Post

Death threats? The only person ever threatening Jordan's life was his own father.


This is not a defense, this is a fact: you are not Jordan Chandler, you DON'T KNOW that for a fact. Please remember we all wanted the FACTS and TRUTH presented in court for Michael during his trial - of course we know the entire Chandler fiasco was a sham, but the fact is you weren't there any more than I. We don't know every single detail. I find it shocking that Michael would receive death threats in his life but he did. People are whack jobs out there.

Did his father not almost kill him by viciously beating him in the head with a dumbbell? If that isn't threatening a life, then I don't know what is.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I've always wondered what exactly this scuffle was all about, no details were given about why the incident occurred.

JORDAN CHANDLER v. EVAN CHANDLER


NOT FOR PUBLICATION WITHOUT THE

APPROVAL OF THE APPELLATE DIVISION

SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY

APPELLATE DIVISION

DOCKET NO. A-0422-05T10422-05T1

JORDAN CHANDLER,

Plaintiff-Appellant,

v.

EVAN CHANDLER,

Defendant-Respondent.

______________________________________________________________


Submitted May 23, 2006 - Decided June 8, 2006

Before Judges Coburn and Lisa.

On appeal from the Superior Court of New Jersey,

Chancery Division, Family Part, Hudson County,

FV-09-524-06B

Ceconi & Cheifetz, attorneys for appellant

(Brian M. Schwartz, on the brief).

Koles, Burke & Bustillo, attorneys for respondent

(Raoul Bustillo, on the brief).

PER CURIAM

On August 5, 2005, plaintiff obtained a temporary restraining order against defendant under the Prevention of Domestic Violence Act, N.J.S.A. 2C:25-17 to -35. The restraints were continued by an order dated August 19, 2005. After plaintiff rested his case, defendant moved for dismissal pursuant to Rule 4:37-2(b). The judge granted the motion, and plaintiff appealed. The final order provided for continuance of the temporary restraints pending the outcome of the appeal. We reverse and remand for further proceedings consistent with this opinion.

The judge found that plaintiff had proved that he and his father, the defendant, were members of the same household when defendant struck him on the head from behind with a twelve and one-half pound weight and then sprayed his eyes with mace or pepper spray and tried to choke him. The judge also found that the weight could cause serious bodily injury or death. Thus, the judge was satisfied that plaintiff had provided evidence, which if believed, would support a finding of aggravated assault. Despite that finding, the judge refused to issue a final restraining order, reasoning as follows:

I'm persuaded, at this point, that the allegation . . ., while serious in and of itself, is not a pattern of abusive and controlling behavior.

For that reason, I would dismiss the complaint. The restraining order [will] be vacated.

After further argument, the judge acknowledged that plaintiff did not have to prove a pattern of abusive behavior but said that he would not grant the final restraining order because "this incident [did] not persuade [him] that [plaintiff] [was] entitled to a restraining order as an act of domestic violence."

When considering a motion to dismiss under Rule 4:37-2(b), a trial court performs a function that the Supreme Court has described as "quite . . . mechanical." Dolson v. Anastasia, 55 N.J. 2, 5 (1969). In carrying out that mechanical function, the "trial court is not concerned with the worth, nature or extent (beyond a scintilla) of the evidence, but only with its existence, viewed most favorably to the party opposing the motion." Id. at 5-6. Because the judge ultimately did not specify what plaintiff failed to prove, reviewing his decision is difficult. Perhaps he thought, as defendant suggests, that plaintiff failed to prove that there was an "immediate danger to . . . [plaintiff's] person." Corrente v. Corrente, 281 N.J. Super. 243, 248 (App. Div. 1995). We will assume for the purposes of this opinion that plaintiff was obliged to prove immediate danger. Given the nature of the attack, it would appear that a trier of fact could infer immediate danger from the evidence submitted. We will not comment now on whether the judge should ultimately so decide, but we are satisfied that given the stage of the proceedings when he ruled, namely at the end of plaintiff's case, the motion to dismiss should have been denied.

Reversed and remanded for trial.


(continued)

(continued)

4

A-0422-05T1

RECORD IMPOUNDED

June 8, 2006

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/appellate-division-unpublished/2006/a0422-05-opn.html
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^I think I read somewhere that it had something to do with him thinking about helping Michael's side. I don't know if that is true though, because he did say he already did his part.

When Jordan told his lies, he was old enough to know what he was doing, so I have no pity for him. He knew right from wrong. He took money over truth.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Did his father not almost kill him by viciously beating him in the head with a dumbbell? If that isn't threatening a life, then I don't know what is.

I meant in reference to this:

Death threats? The only person ever threatening Jordan's life was his own father.

You don't know if he received any others. Period...you just don't know.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

When Jordan told his lies, he was old enough to know what he was doing, so I have no pity for him. He knew right from wrong. He took money over truth.

I disagree. That statement could very easily be applied to the Arvizos though, as they did this from one celebrity to the next, or any opportunity they found. But some could still argue that Janet was the one responsible for it all as she conditioned the children from such an early age that that behavior was right, and not wrong.

If we apply the same logic you used, shouldn't we blame Michael for the abuse he suffered at his fathers' hands? I mean, at the age of 13, Michael certainly had enough wisdom, intelligence, and even means to get away from Joe's grasp if he knew that the way he was being treated and then forced to lie about it to the public was wrong. Right...right?! I mean, it's not like Joe had control of his affairs or the money or anything...oh, wait! He did!

Yes, Jordan had a conscience, and yes I'm sure he knew that what was going on was wrong. But we don't know if he knew everything, if he was getting all the details - so many things went on behind closed doors on a constant basis. And Evan was the one acting on his behalf of his own volition, because Jordan was not the age of majority. He couldn't have been charged as an accomplice because he was a child - whether or not he knew 'right' from 'wrong' doesn't mean it's that black and white. He has not come forward to defend himself and lest we forget someone who DID defend himself and was still lambasted. And in fact, that someone is the whole reason we're here, and we wanted the whole world to remember that in the USA, he was innocent until proven guilty.

That someone would have had helluva lot more compassion than I've seen in this forum.

What the Chandlers, Arvizos, Robsens, Safechucks, Sneddons, Dimonds, and everyone else did to Michael is sickening. They are among my least favorite people to exist, and I know I would very impolite things to say to them if I ever met them face to face. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to hold my composure or keep my anger in check. Watching Michael endure the Arvizo trial broke my heart - I was mostly sad. Just sad that that's what human beings would do to each other.

At some point you have to realize that the situation happened, they did what they did, and even Michael tried to move on. We all want to protect him and undo all the wrongs that were done to him. I wish that all the vile anger I have towards EVERYONE who tried to screw him over would be enough to bring him back, or at least to vindicate him. But it's not - he had to be stronger than that, and he was. It's in our best interest of his legacy to follow suit - and sometimes that means understanding that though he received the vast majority of it, Michael was not the only one who suffered from these situations.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

....I'm sorry some people don't understand the difference between defending someone and just discussing a situation objectively....

Totally agree.
 
reibish;4027477 said:
This is not a defense, this is a fact: you are not Jordan Chandler, you DON'T KNOW that for a fact. Please remember we all wanted the FACTS and TRUTH presented in court for Michael during his trial - of course we know the entire Chandler fiasco was a sham, but the fact is you weren't there any more than I. We don't know every single detail. I find it shocking that Michael would receive death threats in his life but he did. People are whack jobs out there.

My point is that, it's possible that's what he's afraid of - and honestly with some factions of the fanbase, I don't blame him! Michael is one of the most beloved people on earth, I know that if my father had done what Evan did to Michael but I, his daughter, was the one reaping the benefits that it would definitely keep me quiet for a long time, because I know that nothing I said or did would keep anyone happy, and not to mention I'd damn well expect to hear that some crazies out there would want me dead. It's really not that far-fetched of an idea.

Ok, let's see what we know for a fact then.

As you know after the Chandlers got their settlement money, they never pursued a criminal trial. In fact they never wanted a criminal trial even before that. This is not speculation, but well documented in their own book. Their reasoning for that is exactly what you try to use in Jordan's defense now - ie. that they were afraid of "crazy MJ fans". However there is a problem with that claim when you examine their actions objectively and not just take anything they claim at face value. They were afraid of a criminal trial and the resulting publicity and fan reaction but they weren't afraid of a civil trial and the resulting publicity and fan reaction? Moreover, we know for a fact that right after the settlement the uncle, Ray Chandler was shopping a book which he managed to publish in 2004. As Evan and Jordan were restricted by the confidentiality agreement, Ray basically served as a Chandler family spokesperson all these years in the media. He talked to tabloids in the 90s, he appeared on talk shows and TV programms during the trial in the 2000s. He even had a website during the trial trashing MJ. Funny how they were afraid of fans when they had to testify or when it comes to telling the truth now, but they weren't afraid of fans when Ray published his book and did his media tour or was trashing Michael on his website... Of course, Jordan is not Ray, but if he felt so strongly about this "fear of crazy MJ fans" why didn't he stop his uncle? The fear couldn't be that big.

Also Evan sued Michael again in 1996 for 60 million because of the Sawyer interview and Jordan was supportive of that lawsuit as well. Again, they were afraid of a criminal trial, they are afraid of "crazy fans" now, but they were never afraid when it came to going for the money...

The "crazy MJ fans" angle is deliberately exaggerated by the media and often used by the likes of Diane Dimond to give a reason for why there aren't more alleged victims: "they are afraid of crazy fans". They try to portray MJ fans as some overly threatening and dangerous entity, but the only fan threat the Chandlers and Dimond could ever report was one threat by an unhinged woman, Denise Pfeiffer during the first allegations. In fact, from their book it seems media attention was a bigger problem for them at the time, but by October 1993 (with the case still going on!) Jordan was able to play around in the neighborbood across the street without anyone (fans or media) bothering him. The threat then couldn't be that big and serious...

From their book:

“By mid-October the Chandler’s could be reasonably assured of walking out of their front door without having a camera staring them in the face. Which meant that Jordie was able to play in the front yard or across the street at a friend’s house. To look at him, he seemed without a care, running and laughing like any other kid. But to those who knew him well, there was much inner conflict.
In Jordie’s small circle of friends there were boys and girls, but as of yet, la difference seemed to be of no interest to him. Then one day his friend’s eleven-year-old cousin came to play — a dark, slim beauty with big brown eyes. Jordie was smitten. And apparently the feeling was mutual. She returned the next day, and then the next, and soon they were spending much of their days together.
“He would do stuff,” Evan explained. “Like throw a stick to show her how macho he was. And then she’d remark how far he’d thrown it and act impressed. Sometimes they’d go off on their own, just a few houses away, and sit on the lawn and talk. The other kids would giggle and make fun of them. What a relief!”
“What do you think of her?” Evan asked his son, after watching the relationship blossom for several weeks. “I want to kiss her,” Jordie replied. But we might get in trouble with her mother. She’s too young.” And he was right. Not too young to kiss, perhaps, but too young to establish a more intimate bond — which I’m sure is what he had in mind.
Being the gentleman that he is, Jordie controlled his desires and learned an important lesson, for his patience was soon rewarded. A day or so later a new, older girl appeared on the block. “Hey, Pops,” Jordie exclaimed, “look at her, she’s beautiful!” And that she was. A sweet kid, too. They “dated” for over a year.” [9; page 188-189]

Coming forward with the truth would probably cause Jordan a little bit of inconvenience for a short period of time - some media attention, some fan attention, but it would pass within a couple of weeks or months at max. and then he could go back living his life as before, just like he does now. Some fans would be angry for him being late with his confession, but those who are crazy enough to want to harm him have more reason to harm him now than if he came forward with the truth. Yet, no one ever hurt him, apart from his father. He went to University, he's got enterprises - all under his real name. All these years he was not public, but not in hiding either. He did not have to use a fake name, fake identity to hide. Nor did Jason Francia or Gavin Arvizo. The latter did use a fake name, Anton Jackson, for a while but then he went back to his real name and he's on FB very openly - that too should tell you about how real and serious this "threatening crazy MJ fans" angle is.

What I acknowledge as a more realistic problem for Jordan - more than this exaggerated "crazy MJ fans" myth - is his family situation. His father is dead, but his mother and uncle aren't. Coming forward with the truth would mean shading them too, but he could defend them by saying they were victims of Evan's manipulation. But I guess even if your father is the scum of the Earth like Evan was it's hard to talk about and acknowledge that publicly. But while he may have his reasons to not to come forward from his own POV, as far as I'm concerned nothing trumps the need to tell the truth, especially if we are talking about such a serious matter like criminalizing someone innocent because of your lies. Jordan may not have this priority, obviously he doesn't, but I do not feel the need to be understanding of that. He's not a good person, because his convenience and undisturbed luxury is more important to him than vindicating a man who is criminalized by a large part because of his lies.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, Jordan had a conscience, and yes I'm sure he knew that what was going on was wrong. But we don't know if he knew everything, if he was getting all the details - so many things went on behind closed doors on a constant basis. And Evan was the one acting on his behalf of his own volition, because Jordan was not the age of majority. He couldn't have been charged as an accomplice because he was a child - whether or not he knew 'right' from 'wrong' doesn't mean it's that black and white. He has not come forward to defend himself and lest we forget someone who DID defend himself and was still lambasted. And in fact, that someone is the whole reason we're here, and we wanted the whole world to remember that in the USA, he was innocent until proven guilty.

I do not blame Jordan for what happened in 1993. He was obviously threatened and manipulated into it by his father. But I blame him for how he handled it after he grew up. "We don't know if he knew everything" - he knew that his allegations were NOT true. That's all he really needs to know to tell the truth about it.

BTW, Jordan was a pretty self-conscious teenager, since by the age of 15 he emancipated himself from both of his parents. That did not mean he broke all ties with his father though. In fact he and his father ran off together and refused to even communicate with Evan's other children and his second wife who raised them. (This is all in a lawsuit by Nathalie Chandler, Evan's second wife.)

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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^I think I read somewhere that it had something to do with him thinking about helping Michael's side. I don't know if that is true though, because he did say he already did his part.

The timing is definitely interesting because the incident happened about two weeks after Michael's acquittal. Yes, I too heard rumours about Jordan wanting to come forward being the reason, but that is just a rumour. Could be just fans' wishful thinking. What we do know for a fact that around that time Evan tried to get access to Jordan's trust (where his money is from the settlement) and they filed legal papers against each other about that. So it could have been about money dispute. But that dispute could relate to Michael in a way. For example, if seeing MJ on trial and what the allegations did to him, maybe made Jordan reflect on his whole situation and maybe told his father that he would not provide for him any more. But I'm just speculating. Who knows what was the reason. But if Jordan really wanted to come forward he could have done so by now. He didn't. That's the sad fact.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ok, let's see what we know for a fact then.

As you know after the Chandlers got their settlement money, they never pursued a criminal trial. In fact they never wanted a criminal trial even before that. This is not speculation, but well documented in their own book. Their reasoning for that is exactly what you try to use in Jordan's defense now - ie. that they were afraid of "crazy MJ fans". However there is a problem with that claim when you examine their actions objectively and not just take anything they claim at face value. They were afraid of a criminal trial and the resulting publicity and fan reaction but they weren't afraid of a civil trial and the resulting publicity and fan reaction? Moreover, we know for a fact that right after the settlement the uncle, Ray Chandler was shopping a book which he managed to publish in 2004. As Evan and Jordan were restricted by the confidentiality agreement, Ray basically served as a Chandler family spokesperson all these years in the media. He talked to tabloids in the 90s, he appeared on talk shows and TV programms during the trial in the 2000s. He even had a website during the trial trashing MJ. Funny how they were afraid of fans when they had to testify or when it comes to telling the truth now, but they weren't afraid of fans when Ray published his book and did his media tour or was trashing Michael on his website... Of course, Jordan is not Ray, but if he felt so strongly about this "fear of crazy MJ fans" why didn't he stop his uncle? The fear couldn't be that big.

Also Evan sued Michael again in 1996 for 60 million because of the Sawyer interview and Jordan was supportive of that lawsuit as well. Again, they were afraid of a criminal trial, they are afraid of "crazy fans" now, but they were never afraid when it came to going for the money...

The "crazy MJ fans" angle is deliberately exaggerated by the media and often used by the likes of Diane Dimond to give a reason for why there aren't more alleged victims: "they are afraid of crazy fans". They try to portray MJ fans as some overly threatening and dangerous entity, but the only fan threat the Chandlers and Dimond could ever report was one threat by an unhinged woman, Denise Pfeiffer during the first allegations. In fact, from their book it seems media attention was a bigger problem for them at the time, but by October 1993 (with the case still going on!) Jordan was able to play around in the neighborbood across the street without anyone (fans or media) bothering him. The threat then couldn't be that big and serious...

From their book:



Coming forward with the truth would probably cause Jordan a little bit of inconvenience for a short period of time - some media attention, some fan attention, but it would pass within a couple of weeks or months at max. and then he could go back living his life as before, just like he does now. Some fans would be angry for him being late with his confession, but those who are crazy enough to want to harm him have more reason to harm him now than if he came forward with the truth. Yet, no one ever hurt him, apart from his father. He went to University, he's got enterprises - all under his real name. All these years he was not public, but not in hiding either. He did not have to use a fake name, fake identity to hide. Nor did Jason Francia or Gavin Arvizo. The latter did use a fake name, Anton Jackson, for a while but then he went back to his real name and he's on FB very openly - that too should tell you about how real and serious this "threatening crazy MJ fans" angle is.

What I acknowledge as a more realistic problem for Jordan - more than this exaggerated "crazy MJ fans" myth - is his family situation. His father is dead, but his mother and uncle aren't. Coming forward with the truth would mean shading them too, but he could defend them by saying they were victims of Evan's manipulation. But I guess even if your father is the scum of the Earth like Evan was it's hard to talk about and acknowledge that publicly. But while he may have his reasons to not to come forward from his own POV, as far as I'm concerned nothing trumps the need to tell the truth, especially if we are talking about such a serious matter like criminalizing someone innocent because of your lies. Jordan may not have this priority, obviously he doesn't, but I do not feel the need to be understanding of that. He's not a good person, because his convenience and undisturbed luxury is more important to him than vindicating a man who is criminalized by a large part because of his lies.



So afraid of Michael Jackson "crazy fans" he befriended plenty of them. Bought all of his molester's music which he played at a party where he danced like his abuser. Yeah like I said **** him
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I hate the whole ''Crazy MJ fans'' angle that the media has going on. Cause now lots of people will dismiss fans arguments calling them crazy and starstruck.

I don't defend Michael because I am a fan. I defend Michael because he is innocent
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I've always wondered what exactly this scuffle was all about, no details were given about why the incident occurred.
There's more to this than has been spoken publicly.

For example, it happened within I think 3 weeks of MJ's acquittal.

Jordan and Evan didn't actually live together - they lived in the same apartment block, but not the same apartment.

Just before the acquittal, Jordan had bought a new place to live.

It involved either a gun or the threat of use of a gun from Evan to Jordan.

And instead of feeling bad about it, the first thing Evan did was start a lawsuit in order to gain access to Jordan's trust fund. Jordan fought this. This lawsuit lasted through till 2007.

All these things are things fans had to find out about it, and which the media, who have more access and more people to contact than we do, failed to manage to find or reveal.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

IMO I think it could have been about Jordan wanting to get from under his father. Because he had been supporting him for years. The things I learned about the second lawsuit shocked me. And that is hard to do
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

One of the people he befriended was a hardcore fan who use to post on forums, she was actually on the defense witness list.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think Jordan as also been spotted wearing a Michael Jackson t.shirt.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

IMO I think it could have been about Jordan wanting to get from under his father. Because he had been supporting him for years. The things I learned about the second lawsuit shocked me. And that is hard to do

It was definitely it seems the last time he and his father ever really spoke to each other without lawyers.

Evan didn't seem to have attempted to tried to get back in touch with his other two children in all the years from the 90s on.

He seemed to have zero interest in his kids unless there was MJ's money attached.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If we apply the same logic you used, shouldn't we blame Michael for the abuse he suffered at his fathers' hands? I mean, at the age of 13, Michael certainly had enough wisdom, intelligence, and even means to get away from Joe's grasp if he knew that the way he was being treated and then forced to lie about it to the public was wrong. Right...right?! I mean, it's not like Joe had control of his affairs or the money or anything...oh, wait! He did!

That is not using the same logic. A kid helping make a lie to shakedown someone is not the same as a kid being abused by a dad. The kid did not help the dad abuse him. The kid did not sit and plan with the dad how to beat him, ridicule him and scar him for life. Something is really wrong here and by the way what your wrote there is not logic.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Something is really wrong here and by the way what your wrote there is not logic.

And Jordan didn't suffer extensive abuse by Evan as a child? You don't think he would have felt, I don't know, pressure maybe, to go along with what Evan told him to do? Or maybe forced him? What you're implying was that it was Jordan's idea to begin with. My implication is that Jordan was operating under duress of an abusive, controlling father. It does not excuse what he did but seriously, he was a child. A CHILD, just barely learning what the adult version of right and wrong means. He was drugged, for gods sake. Seriously?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Some fans would be angry for him being late with his confession, but those who are crazy enough to want to harm him have more reason to harm him now than if he came forward with the truth.

Quite literally that is all I meant. That now, so many many years later, especially now that Michael is dead, NOW is when he would have to worry about something like that happening. I never one claimed it to be a legitimate concern, just that the threat may exist, and that either way he may be concerned with the threat and so he would not want to draw more attention to himself.

What I acknowledge as a more realistic problem for Jordan - more than this exaggerated "crazy MJ fans" myth - is his family situation. His father is dead, but his mother and uncle aren't. Coming forward with the truth would mean shading them too, but he could defend them by saying they were victims of Evan's manipulation. But I guess even if your father is the scum of the Earth like Evan was it's hard to talk about and acknowledge that publicly. But while he may have his reasons to not to come forward from his own POV, as far as I'm concerned nothing trumps the need to tell the truth...

I never said Jordan was a good person. I never said his behavior was excused. I, too, agree that his continued silence is utter bull and at this point Michael deserves the vindication. But when you aren't in his situation with his family, then you really can't pass judgment. We know some of the things that transpired between Jordan and Evan but that doesn't mean we know everything. Just because there's no paper trail linking June, Ray, and Jordan in some weird family battle beyond the ones they've already been in doesn't mean it isn't there. I speak from experience because I come from an insanely messed-up family as well, and there really is no limit to how nuts things get, and how you get trapped in - and honestly money is one of the things that will weigh you down the most.

...especially if we are talking about such a serious matter like criminalizing someone innocent because of your lies. Jordan may not have this priority, obviously he doesn't, but I do not feel the need to be understanding of that. He's not a good person, because his convenience and undisturbed luxury is more important to him than vindicating a man who is criminalized by a large part because of his lies.

I get not wanting to be understanding of them, and I don't really believe there's a real excuse either - but we, as fans concerned for Michael's image, well-being, and continued success - come from an extremely biased side on the whole issue. The false accusations they threw at Michael make me ill, especially knowing how he ended up after all these years. I personally feel that the Chandlers definitely gave Michael the push that eventually brought him down 16 years later. I think we all agree that his life would have been very different if it had never happened and that is not easy to look past.

At the same time, blindly making assumptions about a person you don't really know other than through court documents (and, well, also through absence of court documents and publicity) isn't really ideal behavior either.
 
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