History Tour

[R1chard]

It’s not really that simple. Again not only do fans have expectations there are pple who Michael took care of. Not to mention coming off a big settlement, a new father and other business ventures, also paying the pple he employs including lawyers and who knows what else.

I'm not saying he didn't need the money. I'm saying you owe your fans the respect. How somebody pays their bills is a different concern. Again, the bottom line is that if you can't do something, then you don't do it.

Imagine if MJ's job was throwing knives at a circus. If he went blind, then he literally would not be able to do that job. It doesn't matter How long he's been doing that job, and it doesn't matter how much people want to see him do it. He simply can't.

Everyone knows that touring is where the money is. And it’s a great way to connect with the fans.

If you can't deliver quality of performance, it's basically taking advantage of people.

But again…you do what for a living? Exactly.

Huh? What do I do for a living? I'm single-handedly responsible for approx 1.5% of the world's electricity. You wouldn't be able to charge your phone or cook your dinner without me. You're welcome.

But you know what? If I develop dementia then I won't be able to do my job any more, so I'll have no choice but to stop. And like any responsible adult, my plan is to get enough money to retire before that happens.

Again, you dodged my question, so I ask you again. Do you think Oasis are going to mime on their comeback?

Now you are juts trolling.

Is "trolling" a new word for balanced and objective conversation? Or is it just a way to dismiss those who have an opinion you don't agree with?

You cant even be bothered to read the archives of this forum to back up your claims.

Why would I want to read the archives or "back up my claims"? None of that matters. I'm talking about principles and respect.

This forum and the fan community went into meltdown in June 2009

Meh. Sounds like spoiled brats having a temper tantrum.

In the Aerosmith case, as well as many others, people respect those artists even more for knowing when to call it a day.

Nobody wants an artist to develop a bad reputation.

Your constant claims about Michael are baseless and false.

Please understand, none of this is a specific or personal attack on MJ. It's just basic facts that apply to anybody in any profession that involves physical performance.

Michael Jordan is not able to continue playing basketball professionally. It is simply no longer a career option. That's why he has a sports clothing brand and a restaurant chain.

Mike Tyson is not able to continue being the heavyweight world champion, that's why he has his farming business.

David Coulthard is not able to continue being a racing driver, that's why he owns hotels and is a commentator on the TV.

You see?

 

[Moonstreet]

You see?

Good Gravy, no I dont swearing see! I lived it I experienced it, in real time, in real life, and in the fan communities. You have no swearing clue, you swearing moran. You are trying to invalidate MY first hand experiences, the real Michael and the history of the website you are currently posting on. twatting twat twat twat twat

 

[filmandmusic]

The Victory tour was not the Thriller tour as Thriller wasn’t performed nor was it the actual Victory tour as no song of the album was performed. It is the only tour in history that isn’t promoting the album that was supposed to be promoted. It’s a mindfuck!

 

[Immortal MJJ]

Nothing lackluster about my argument. Maybe comprehension is where you lack. Its easy to say what someone should have done when you’re not in their position or feel what they feel on a regular basis. You can't give a damn near 3hr show and take it around the world after performing hundreds of shows and you probably havent even faced 1/4 of the things Michael has. He had to work and he went to work. He did what HE FELT he had to do. Thats the end of it. Who are you or anyone else to tell someone when to do their job?

rationality at its best this is everyone,nonetheless..
darn it,people like you are fascinating,really-

 

[michaelsson]

I'm not saying he didn't need the money. I'm saying you owe your fans the respect. How somebody pays their bills is a different concern. Again, the bottom line is that if you can't do something, then you don't do it.

Imagine if MJ's job was throwing knives at a circus. If he went blind, then he literally would not be able to do that job. It doesn't matter How long he's been doing that job, and it doesn't matter how much people want to see him do it. He simply can't.


If you can't deliver quality of performance, it's basically taking advantage of people.


Huh? What do I do for a living? I'm single-handedly responsible for approx 1.5% of the world's electricity. You wouldn't be able to charge your phone or cook your dinner without me. You're welcome.

But you know what? If I develop dementia then I won't be able to do my job any more, so I'll have no choice but to stop. And like any responsible adult, my plan is to get enough money to retire before that happens.

Again, you dodged my question, so I ask you again. Do you think Oasis are going to mime on their comeback?


Is "trolling" a new word for balanced and objective conversation? Or is it just a way to dismiss those who have an opinion you don't agree with?


Why would I want to read the archives or "back up my claims"? None of that matters. I'm talking about principles and respect.


Meh. Sounds like spoiled brats having a temper tantrum.

In the Aerosmith case, as well as many others, people respect those artists even more for knowing when to call it a day.

Nobody wants an artist to develop a bad reputation.


Please understand, none of this is a specific or personal attack on MJ. It's just basic facts that apply to anybody in any profession that involves physical performance.

Michael Jordan is not able to continue playing basketball professionally. It is simply no longer a career option. That's why he has a sports clothing brand and a restaurant chain.

Mike Tyson is not able to continue being the heavyweight world champion, that's why he has his farming business.

David Coulthard is not able to continue being a racing driver, that's why he owns hotels and is a commentator o

You’re quite literally comparing apples to oranges. Michael could STILL perform. He wasnt in a wheelchair, or blind, or disabled. He was still capable of getting on stage and entertaining lol. And even when he “sprained” his ankle he still sat in a chair and performed. If theres an alternate solution take it. His was lyp syncin but still performing full out.

And thats awesome, you’re s modern day hero.(seriously). Worry about what you do and how you do it. Stay in your lane.

And forgive me but who the hell is Oasis?

 

[R1chard]

Good Gravy, no I dont swearing see! I lived it I experienced it, in real time, in real life, and in the fan communities. You have no swearing clue, you swearing moran. You are trying to invalidate MY first hand experiences, the real Michael and the history of the website you are currently posting on. twatting twat twat twat twat

Again, I'm not really having a specific MJ conversation. If it will stop you overreacting, pretend I'm talking about Ed Sheeran.

I also don't care about your experiences. They're not relevant to this. I don't care about "the community". They're not relevant to this. I'm talking about the principles of honesty and deception.

What I'm also saying is that every career has a shelf life. It used to be simple: everybody retired at 65 and that was it. Now things are different. You stop working either when
(A) You can't do the job any more, or
(B) You have enough money to stop

Hopefully (B) happens before (A).

And with every career having a shelf life, it's not a good idea to deceive people by pretending to sing if you're not going to.

Would you want a 103-year-old as your local doctor? Would you want a 116-year-old pilot to fly your plane?

You’re quite literally comparing apples to oranges. Michael could STILL perform.

MJ was a singer. He sang songs. That was his chosen profession. Everything else was secondary. He could play guitar, piano and drums, but people didn't expect him to do those things on stage because he was billed as a singer.

And basically, MJ seems to be admitting that he could no longer sing live.

He wasnt in a wheelchair, or blind, or disabled. He was still capable of getting on stage and entertaining lol. And even when he “sprained” his ankle he still sat in a chair and performed.

I can respect MJ for not dancing if he sprained his ankle. Obviously. It must be said that it's a shame he didn't actually sing RTT during that performance though.

But in many ways, a seated MJ performance would have been amazing. Like MTV Unplugged or whatever. An intimate show with minimal instruments that showcases his voice.

Worry about what you do and how you do it. Stay in your lane.

That's the thing. If somebody is asking me to go to a concert, it becomes my business. I'm literally the paying customer. By definition I'm always right. I have ALL the power in this relationship, not the person trying to sell something. I decide if something is good or not. If I don't wanna buy a ticket, there's nothing an artist can do about it. I determine what's good quality, I determine the value, and what's acceptable or not.

But the trouble is, I can't make that decision if I don't have all the information (ie if they hide the fact they're not actually going to sing).

So, to summarize: miming is never acceptable. The only exception would be if the poster said "Watch Ed Sheeran mime to his hit songs".

And forgive me but who the hell is Oasis?

Oh, ok, nevermind. Roughly during the time of the HIStory tour, people were calling them the biggest band in the world...

 

[Prometheus77]

y’all don’t get tired of talking about the same thing over and over. It happened. It's over. It wont change. What are yall complaining about? Michael has done how many live shows from the 70s-1997? “Michael could’ve this or Michael could've that”…we know what killed him, we know he was using propofol on that tour to sleep, we know he had certain issue with laryngitis during some dates, and the issues with he’s had with vocal chords. We know he didn't want to do it and he did it anyway. We know about the adrenaline rushes and the stress of touring to the point he forgets to eat or loses a ton of weight yet yall still complaining as fans expect others to see the human side of him yet yall want him to be perfect in all senses. “Well he shouldn't have done it then” It comes with the job. We have all done something because we felt we had to do it and probably didn't like it or want to be there half the time. He had big bills and was a big spender and was about to be a father on top of everything else.

I get it,going to a “LIVE” show and playing the album track sucks when you have a certain expectation of an artist we get it. Where it lacked in “live vocals” it made up for in dancing, theatrics, and staging(altho i wish he had used the runway more than just for TWYMMF). Of course Michael could have prerecorded some live vocal tracks or used unreleased vocals or changed some of the pitching. But he didnt. Enjoy it or dont. Its that simple.

Exactly my sentiments. And I enjoyed all 21 times I got to see the HIStory tour. And anyone else who got to attend it. People who only saw videos on Youtube don't matter.

 

[Prometheus77]

I didn't say HIStory was hundreds of dollars at the time, I mean for any singer, at any point in time, you should not be pretending to sing if you're not. It's dishonest.


Do you really want to open that can of worms? Go to an inflation calculator. £75 in 2009 is worth over £100 in 2024.

Put it another way - MJ was always known for having expensive tickets. £30 in 1995 was approximately half the cost of a Glastonbury ticket. £75 in 2009 was... approximately half the cost of a Glastonbury ticket. In 2024, a Glastonbury ticket was £355 plus a £5 booking fee.

Put it another way, with all the theatrics and personnel, do you think an MJ ticket in 2024 would cost more than an Oasis ticket (which is basically just 4 guys and a handful of guitars)? Well, Oasis tickets were recently £355 ($472) on Ticketmaster.

The industry is trying to make people think "hundreds of dollars" is a normal price for entry to a concert. And for hundreds of dollars, you should most definitely NEVER be pretending to sing if you're not. It's just unacceptable, no matter who you are.


It's almost like a tour doesn't actually make that much of a difference to album sales, especially for somebody like MJ, where the album doesn't sell most of it's copies in the first year.

They never were over the top expensive.

 

[Prometheus77]

Aerosmith announces retirement from touring due to Steven Tyler's vocal injury

Massachusetts-based rock band Aerosmith has announced that they're retiring from touring and cancelling their farewell tour due to lead singer Steven Tyler's vocal injury.

www.cbsnews.com

That's an artist who respects their fans. And in return, the fans respect the artist.


In order to protect people from being misled, I feel like we need a law that requires artists to declare that they're miming before any tickets are sold.

Right. The way they respected them with charging the highest ticket prices they ever had on any of their tours. I say it's Karma that they couldn't keep all that money they greedily extorted from their fans for their final tour. I'm talking like 700 $ for floor seats 10 rows back.

And really, no where does it say, that a singer has to sing live at a concert. You're paying for a show. Not that the singer sings ever note live. Especially when that singer is also dancing for 2 hours.

 

[Prometheus77]

Buy you've got to imagine that if there are 80,000 people in Wembley stadium, 79,000 of those people have never been to a website like this, do they're taking it at face value. Can you see how those people would be upset if they found out at the concert that it wasn't live?

If there are 80,000 people at a concert, 70,000 won't care if the singer sings live, when he puts on a great show, entertaining people and dancing for 2 hours. Most people won't even notice that not everything is live and marvel at the fact that they are at a Michael Jackson show. Something keyboard warriors like you apparently don't get.

As for Oasis?? Who cares? Liam stands there for 90 minutes with his arms folded behind his back. He better sing live. He brings nothing else to the table.

 

[Prometheus77]

MJ was a singer. He sang songs. That was his chosen profession. Everything else was secondary.

No. He was billed as a singer and and a dancer. People wanted to see him sing and dance. They could hear him sing, some live, some prerecorded and they could see him dance, boom, he had an entertaining show. What irrelevant nitpickers like you think about it, 20+ years after the fact, is, well, irrelevant. People who walked away at the end of these shows had the experience of a lifetime and it would have been a tragedy had the HIStory tour never happened.

 

[8th wonder]

Recently went to see Janet for my first concert and it changed my thoughts on miming. I just assumed almost all of what I heard was live since for nearly the whole show there was nothing to make me think playback was used but her vocals sounding different to the studio version, little breaths and audience interactions throughout the songs made them sound live. But I remember thinking even if a song was mimed I would’ve enjoyed it regardless.

Makes me wonder for those who saw MJ’s solo tours was the playback noticeable? If so did if worsen the experience?

 

[Prometheus77]

Recently went to see Janet for my first concert and it changed my thoughts on miming. I just assumed almost all of what I heard was live since for nearly the whole show there was nothing to make me think playback was used but her vocals sounding different to the studio version, little breaths and audience interactions throughout the songs made them sound live. But I remember thinking even if a song was mimed I would’ve enjoyed it regardless.

Makes me wonder for those who saw MJ’s solo tours was the playback noticeable? If so did if worsen the experience?

Standing there in the stadium in the excitement with yourself and everyone else singing along? Absolutely not. Listening back to recordings or watching videos, yeah, it would have been better if more would have been live.

As for Janet, she does sing a considerable bit live. But yeah. She definitely does it better and makes it not as noticeable.

 

[8th wonder]

Never knew how effective having a mixture of live vocals and playback is at making everything seem live so I imagine that would've helped songs like Billie Jean, Beat It etc sound live.

It's not as believable if there's a big difference between the studio/live vocals so I guess it might've been more noticeable during the few dates where MJ was sick e.g. Munich but during shows like Kuala Lumpur or Cologne I imagine the vocals weren't too far off the studio vocals (also these days artists have access to tools/effects to enhance live vocals).

Plus now it's easier to go back to analyse the details and which songs were mimed but back then people typically only saw the show once so weren't as analytical.

Overall I guess the playback wouldn't have made a big difference to most of the audience hence why MJ chose to prioritise the dancing as a lack of dancing would've been noticeable (plus he evidently put a lot of time into improving his dancing so of course he'd want to showcase that).

 

[kreen]

(plus he evidently put a lot of time into improving his dancing).

For the HIStory tour? Did he?

 

[8th wonder]

For the HIStory tour? Did he?

100% for example 2 of my favourite MJ moves are the insane robotics at the end of Billie Jean during Kuala Lumpur (29.10.96) and the fluid in place move he does just after the robotics in Manila (overall best dance break for Billie Jean too), the crazy foot work for Wanna Be Startin Somethin after the pause in Kuala Lumpur (27.10.96) and the overall dancing/combos for WBSS in Lausanne (or Helsinki for pro footage), brilliant showcase of dancing in Cologne and Amsterdam (08.06.97) for Stranger In Moscow too (Brunei/Helsinki are good for pro).

There were plenty of other new moves as well (and moves like the side glide were refined) but yeah he significantly improved and his arsenal widened meaning his dancing was more varied. Also the dancing just kept on developing and changing even throughout the tour (along with the vocals which led to some amazing/unique ad-libs). Plus this is all based on the limited amount of footage available; there’ll be plenty of unreleased footage with more great dancing.

 

[Moonstreet]

Makes me wonder for those who saw MJ’s solo tours was the playback noticeable? If so did if worsen the experience?

I wasnt allowed to go to Bad concert, I couldnt go to Dangerous concert, so I had waited 9 years to see Michael in concert. 9 years of watching MTV and wondering would I ever get to experience a concert. I taped Dangerous Bucharest from the TV and would watch one song before school every day for months. I waited and then the 93 allegations, and then I thought I had missed my chance, that I would never see Michael in concert.

But then History tour, and finally, in July 1997, my dream came true. He was on the stage, in front of me, in my home town, breathing the same air as me. All the songs I had been listening to for years on my low quality walkman, were now been played loud, in high quality. I saw people in the queue before the concert I recognized from Dangerous tour documentaries. All those years of watching Michael in my parents living room, as we only had 1 tv in the house.

So no, I didnt care about playback. I didnt care about miming. I was surrounded by thousands of people, and Michael was really here.

 

[zinniabooklover]

I wasnt allowed to go to Bad concert, I couldnt go to Dangerous concert, so I had waited 9 years to see Michael in concert. 9 years of watching MTV and wondering would I ever get to experience a concert. I taped Dangerous Bucharest from the TV and would watch one song before school every day for months. I waited and then the 93 allegations, and then I thought I had missed my chance, that I would never see Michael in concert.

But then History tour, and finally, in July 1997, my dream came true. He was on the stage, in front of me, in my home town, breathing the same air as me. All the songs I had been listening to for years on my low quality walkman, were now been played loud, in high quality. I saw people in the queue before the concert I recognized from Dangerous tour documentaries. All those years of watching Michael in my parents living room, as we only had 1 tv in the house.

So no, I didnt care about playback. I didnt care about miming. I was surrounded by thousands of people, and Michael was really here.

 

[dam2040]

I wasnt allowed to go to Bad concert, I couldnt go to Dangerous concert, so I had waited 9 years to see Michael in concert. 9 years of watching MTV and wondering would I ever get to experience a concert. I taped Dangerous Bucharest from the TV and would watch one song before school every day for months. I waited and then the 93 allegations, and then I thought I had missed my chance, that I would never see Michael in concert.

But then History tour, and finally, in July 1997, my dream came true. He was on the stage, in front of me, in my home town, breathing the same air as me. All the songs I had been listening to for years on my low quality walkman, were now been played loud, in high quality. I saw people in the queue before the concert I recognized from Dangerous tour documentaries. All those years of watching Michael in my parents living room, as we only had 1 tv in the house.

So no, I didnt care about playback. I didnt care about miming. I was surrounded by thousands of people, and Michael was really here.

You'll probably get told none of this matters because of how it looks on youtube or something

 

[bluemoon7]

I wasnt allowed to go to Bad concert, I couldnt go to Dangerous concert, so I had waited 9 years to see Michael in concert. 9 years of watching MTV and wondering would I ever get to experience a concert. I taped Dangerous Bucharest from the TV and would watch one song before school every day for months. I waited and then the 93 allegations, and then I thought I had missed my chance, that I would never see Michael in concert.

But then History tour, and finally, in July 1997, my dream came true. He was on the stage, in front of me, in my home town, breathing the same air as me. All the songs I had been listening to for years on my low quality walkman, were now been played loud, in high quality. I saw people in the queue before the concert I recognized from Dangerous tour documentaries. All those years of watching Michael in my parents living room, as we only had 1 tv in the house.

So no, I didnt care about playback. I didnt care about miming. I was surrounded by thousands of people, and Michael was really here.

My story is quite similar

 

[Prometheus77]

My story is quite similar

As is the story of hundreds of thousands of people who saw the HIStory tour. Just the the thought of someone suggesting he should not have done that tour is ludicrous.

 

[jimtown09]

Sean Vezina - MYStory 2025
Mine. And mine only

stay tuned...

 

[bluemoon7]

As is the story of hundreds of thousands of people who saw the HIStory tour. Just the the thought of someone suggesting he should not have done that tour is ludicrous.

Yes.

Was I disappointed he didn´t sing everything live? To be honest, I was. His music gave me so much. His voice. I grew up in an "audio age" basically. I knew his voice more than his image, his dance. I loved, and still love to sing. I sing in a classical choir, and I have always loved what we call pop music, I have always loved Michael´s music.

I loved seeing him on June 15th 1997, near my home town. Finally, ... after I wasn´t allowed to go to the Bad Tour and after he had to cancel the Dangerous Tour concert minutes before we were about to flood the stadium.

Today, I am sad he wasn´t able to fully use his voice during the HIStory tour. And it hurts to know now that he DID, in fact, sing ... along to the music from the tape. He did not lipsynch, he did not want to. As a performer in his soul it must have hurt him to not be able to fully sing evey song during the HIStory tour. But I am so glad he gave us what he could give. And it was more than enough!



Oh, well, this thread gives me so much nostalgia
I am so happy I was able to see him live, if only once. And I am not willing to have this experience diminished.

 

[bluemoon7]

Exactly my sentiments. And I enjoyed all 21 times I got to see the HIStory tour. And anyone else who got to attend it. People who only saw videos on Youtube don't matter.

21 times! I hate you! No, just kidding!

 

[A1DUNKSY]

Whilst I'm not keen on the History tour, I wouldn't say it necessarily hurts his legacy. As a fan, I extremely dislike the amount of playback used on it and that's my biggest issue.

He wasn't as electric and he was almost approaching 40 so the slower dancing was to be expected. The live vocals we did hear were atrocious.

It's a bloody disgrace we never got to hear him sing a song like Stranger in Moscow or even You are not alone live?

At the VMA's 95 the mic was turned on at the end of YANA and he sounded amazing , that was my fave part.

Hi. You do realise that Michael was actually singing during the HIStory tour, sure the audience hear 90% playback during the shows, however recently the soundboard vocal feeds have been made available (I believe they were intended to be part of the HIStory 25 anniversary that was cancelled due to Covif 19) & the evidence is there that he was actually singing, its just for whatever reason Michael & the sound engineers didn't think his vocal was good enough for the public to hear. To be honest I suspected this even back in 97 when I attended the shows at Wembley. It's actually pretty difficult to lip sync without making a sound, it's easier just to sing or even speak the words, but to just move your lips without making a sound is pretty difficult for a 120 minute concert. The soundboard feeds just confirm what I've always suspected, he was singing but his live vocals really aren't very good & that's coming from a die hard fan of 35 years. Infact to be completely honest his live vocal is terrible! He must've been suffering with something as I struggle to fathom how someone capable of such beautiful singing could sound so awful. To be fair if you watch all of his tours even the Victory tour, his live vocals got steadily worse over time. The Dangerous tour was the last time his live vocals were of any real quality & half of that was over playback. It's a shame yes but I do understand why he chose to do it. Michael believed that the audience wanted to hear the songs as they sounded on the record, when in truth when you attend a live concert you really eany live vocals no matter how raspy or bad they might sound.

 

[R1chard]

Why do people say that the History Tour was his worst Tour ever if they weren't there? Please explain!

It's like saying why do people say that Motown 25 was his best performance ever if they weren't there?

You can just tell. If anything, you can appreciate the performance far more on TV than if you were standing hundreds of metres away at the back of the stadium, where you can't see or hear anything. Last show I went to was Smashing Pumpkins with Weezer, a few months ago, and I was so far away I couldn't even see what guitar Billy was playing.

So yeah, the concert experience is one thing. Appreciating the musical performance is another.

I totally understand why Michael lip-synced but if you were used to hear him perform live then HWT was simply disappointing. Live vocals (even bad ones) create human connection. There was also nothing new in the show that could compensate that even a little

Indeed. Any miming is an insult to those who paid money to see a show.

Period.


And as you say, it creates a human connection. It doesn't help that it's exactly the same setlist every night, and that Michael never interacts with the crowd. Not even "Hello Paris! I went to the Eiffel Tower yesterday and it was amazing" or anything like that.

He still is considered as one of the greatest live performers in the history of music. Don’t alter history.

Huh? Look up a list of 10 best concerts of all time. Any list from any magazine, any newspaper or any website.

I defy you to find one that mentions MJ.

Edit: lol, I just realised this is an old thread I'd already replied to!