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How does mike get money from SONY/ATV catalogue?

denisrs said:
Datsymay: There is no "two separate companies that have merger". Merger happened in 1995 and only one company exists since then.

Michael is shareholder of Sony/ATV MP, please read Sony SEC filings for that. I hope You will not go arguing with SEC filings?

Also, merger as business process has nothing to do with any "partnership" other than creating one company from two which are merged. So we have one united single entity with one central office, one CEO, one chain of over 40 offices around the world.

"Partnership" is not a merger, it when two (or more) companies kept as separate entities. Please see Renault-Nissan partnership for that.

Lets not confuse business terms (executive/consultant, merger/partnership) or else we will confuse other readers, what would be better to avoid. :)
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Anyway Denisr, what you've said enhance my sayings even MORE. Maybe I am not too good with those terms, and I am sorry, but the main idea stands up, let's not to lose ourselfs in details... It's impossible for Michael to take a huge loan ofering as garant Sony/Atv company, for personal or other business purposes. Stories from media are beyond messy and outrageous.
 
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Datsymay said:
Hi Cecilia:D
This is the whole argument I have been making, yet people want to go the media way, as if the media would say that the loan was a company loan. What would Mj be doing with such a large loan, if it wasn't for the company. The whole version told in tabloids make no sense.
What does make sense however, is that both MJ and sony took out separate loans for purposes of buying more catalogues. Both Sony and MJ guaranteed each others loans, using the asset of the company. Because the loans were quaranteed by both sides, both were at the meeting for refinancing and both agreed on a repayment scheme, which of course is being paid back by the company.
It is a a matter of interpretation, and of course, even if the media knew that the loan was for the company, they would still have lied about it and say that MJ borrowed the money to go on a sending spree.:mello:
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I know Datsy, what you've said in these pages makes perfect right. :punk:

MAybe we don't know all details, but if we use some common sense, we see that media talks is so far away from truth. They throw us kindergarden stories. :wacko:


Of course that the loan was for the company - it's huge ass loan, and making simple calculations we will see that it's also almost imposible for Mike to spend 250 milions for personal purposes in a couple of years without buying an yacht or personal plane, or an island...
 
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Shareholders of two initial companies negotiate with each on matter how much shares will each get of newly formed united company.
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That stage of merger resulted Sony paying $110 million in 1995 to have equal 50% share of new company with Michael. Without paying Sony would get only like 40% against Michael's 60% and basically everything for the company would be decided by Jackson without mutual agreement with Sony.

With "buying" those 10% of shares of new company ("buying" was in inverted commas since Sony did not buy shares actually, everything was negotiated before registering united company) Sony made it usual Japanese way of having 50-50 ownerships. Michael agreed to that, because Sony not only paid those $110 million, but also was contracted to invest in the development of united company on its own, without Jackson's finances needed.

Tipareth: we have to be very cautious on whatever stories from the media; some business expertise has to be applied to everything. (It helps to be involved in he business/stocks/financial analysis matters since 1990s, so all I do is try to clear up certain aspects of media stories that do not feat to reality.)
 
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bit of info from lesliemj.hu


What I've found out about the refinancing of MJ's $300 million loan:

MJ moved "MJ-ATV Publishing Trust" (his 50% stake in "Sony/ATV Music Publishing") into a new trust called "New Horizont II" on December 10, 2007. On the very same day he moved "MJ Publishing Trust (aka. "MiJac Music") into "New Horizont Trust III". Both trusts are registered in Delaware. The financing statements has been amended on February 7, 2008 with a December 10, 2012 lapse date.
For Your information: as late as December 2007 Raymone Bain was still one of the trustees of MJP.

So this is abit of info abot when those new trusts were created and ppl wondered what they were about
 
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elusive moonwalker said:
bit of info from lesliemj.hu


What I've found out about the refinancing of MJ's $300 million loan:

MJ moved "MJ-ATV Publishing Trust" (his 50% stake in "Sony/ATV Music Publishing") into a new trust called "New Horizont II" on December 10, 2007. On the very same day he moved "MJ Publishing Trust (aka. "MiJac Music") into "New Horizont Trust III". Both trusts are registered in Delaware. The financing statements has been amended on February 7, 2008 with a December 10, 2012 lapse date.
For Your information: as late as December 2007 Raymone Bain was still one of the trustees of MJP.

So this is abit of info abot when those new trusts were created and ppl wondered what they were about
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This is what I have been saying to Denis, that MJ's share of Sony/Atv is not the same as Sony's share. MJ's is a Trust while Sony's is a company that is floated on the stock market. Sony's company has lot of people who own it, ie, share holders. Mj's company is only owned by him through his Trust. It is a mistake to say that Mj is a share holder of Sony/atv. he is not. MJ can separate hos company from Sony anytime he wants, They are simply mergers.:)
 
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Leslie's information tells the same thing: there is no ATV MP company and Michael owns shares of Sony/ATV MP (through trusts, as I mentioned before and as Leslie's information confirmed). Sony owns another 50% of Sony/ATV MP. And there are no Sony/ATV MP shares on the market; all 50% belong to Sony and not to any other companies or people (it is usual that open/public companies have shares in closed/private companies).

However, shares of Sony itself are indeed on open market and belong to many other companies and people, but this is far away thing that has nothing to do with Sony/ATV MP, which is independent of Sony business entity, not included in any reports and financial filings except for accounting of profits from investments. The same way Sony also owns half of shares of Sony-Ericsson, which is also fully structurally independent company (one single entity, not two Sony and Ericsson; cell phones divisions of both companies were merged into Sony-Ericsson and do not exist any more).

And there is no way how Sony/ATV MP can be separated without mutual agreement with Sony since it is one single unity. Merged companies create one company, that it the basics of the terminology.

Links to Wiki are sometimes of bad taste, but You can go and check to see how merger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merger
differs from partnership/alliance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan

You can also look at rare case of reverse merge: Daimler-Chrysler. Those companies are not fully independent of each other (especially Chrysler still depending from much stronger German Daimler), but now they are structurally separate again as they were before the merger in 1998.

Sony/ATV MP is single company, and neither Sony nor Michael will ever even want to separate it until the business will be dying of huge losses (like in case of Chrysler trade mark sales in Daimler-Chrysler before shareholders decided to cut off Chrysler) -- and this will hardy ever happen.

By the way, I have idea why fans thought of Sony/ATV MP as something temporary. We have all press-releases, interviews and financial SEC filings and nothing ever hinted on anything temporary. But the problem is, most probably, that business term "merge" was not understood.
 
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The SONY/ATV Catalogue is MJ's best investment....like if you go to www.sonyatv.com you can see all the songs Michael has rights to. The list is tremendous, I was so shocked to see all the popular bands and artists belonging to SONY/ATV. Even the massive recent hit "Low" by Flo Rida is a part of this company as well as "With You" by Chris Brown. These songs are played all over the radio as well as many other artists that belong in this catalogue. I encourage everybody to visit www.sonyatv.com to see all the other artists that are there.

*Remember whenever these songs receive public airplay Michael gets paid!
 
And, to be clear: when Daimler-Benz and Chrysler merged back in 1998 into united single Daimler-Chrysler company, shareholders of both initial companies received shares of the newly formed one instead of their former shares in certain proportion. Shareholders of Daimler-Benz, as bigger company, got about 60%, and shareholders of Chrysler about 40% of Daimler-Chrysler.

ATV MP and Sony MP merger was the same process except for those both companies were closed/private (and Sony had to pay $110 million to make it's share in the new company to be equal 50% as Michael's). There was never any shares of Sony MP on the market; it was always closed/private company, even though established and owned by open/public giant Sony Corporation of Japan.
 
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