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Is Kenny Ortega Lying in court?

StacyJ said:
Not really... we all know MJ didn't make the best decisions, and that sometimes he needed protection from the outside world. The fact that Murray was pumping MJ with propofol demonstrates how MJ needed protection because of his bad decisions and the willingness of others to take advantage of him.
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StacyJ, I do understand your point, but 'they" had simply no right to provide such protection. Michael was totally conscious, alert and capable of making this own decisions. Nobody has a right to force "protection" against person's will. Kenny actually sent Michael home from the rehearsal and got scolded by Murray. Kenny had neither reason no right to question a doctor who Michael trusted. We now have much more information than Kenny had in June 2009.
 
nKaymo. Thinks mj was a two year old and needed his hand held and should have done what he was told like a child
 
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elusive moonwalker said:
Kaymo. Thinks mj was a two year old and needed his hand held and should have done what he was told like a child
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well he's dead it's obvious he needed someone to protect him and watch over him. Someone should've done the conservatorship thing like Britney had on her. If that would've happened MJ would still be here today.
 
Kenny saw MJ losing tremendous amounts of weight.. Michael Bush saw it too. Karen Faye claims she knew something was wrong. They all sat around and did nothing to help MJ when they claim they saw him in some kind of trouble.
 
StacyJ said:
Kenny saw MJ losing tremendous amounts of weight.. Michael Bush saw it too. Karen Faye claims she knew something was wrong. They all sat around and did nothing to help MJ when they claim they saw him in some kind of trouble.
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You repeating same thing again. Putting aside energetic man that I saw in This Is It and an autopsy report that put his weight well within proper BMI, let's say for argument sake that Kenny, Michael Bush and Karen were right. The ONLY thing they could to is to TELL Michael about their worries. That's about it. Unless Michael agreed, they could not do anything else. He clearly was not in the state which would justify intervention against his will.
And now I quit. We won't agree anyway.
 
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in that meeting where murray had a go at ortega. kenny told mj he was worried about him and mj told him not to and he was fine. so there u go. what exactly should ortega and co have done.
 
I have to say that Michael needed the kind of protection that Britney Spears got is offensive to me!

Sorry, just have to say!

If Michael had lost weight and people were worried and he went on to blow the world away with his O2 performances, we would not be having this conversation!!! Because we all would have assumed that Michael handled his business.

All this coulda/shoulda/woulda is tiresome and pointless.

Conrad Murray killed Michael. Could we PLEASE focus on that?
 
justnat said:
And how "they all should've taken MJ to emergency" if MJ did not want to go to the emergency? Last time I checked, Michael was a full-grown adult and as such could not have been taken to the emergency against his will.
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Exactly. i am so sick and tired of some folks here always trying to paint MJ like a retarded. He was freaking' raisin three kids as a single parent. If he couldn't take care of himself, or needed someone in the background second-guessing every decision, HTF do you think he was able to raise these children.

The most idiotic thing i've heard...MJ under conservatorship. What a bunch of crap..??

Best, i leave this thread....before I write something that will get me banned.
 
I think we all wish we could go back in time and tell Michael what he should do. But looking at this now, even with the benefit of hindsight, it is hard to say what should have been done or by whom. Who really had the, let's say authority, over Michael to say go to the hospital? If Michael was convinced he could handle what was going on, whatever that was, and had confidence in his doctor, who could tell him otherwise? Michael was Michael. Put yourself in his place. If someone said, say, you don't look so good, go to the hospital and you didn't think you needed to go, would you? I bet not. Right or wrong, he made his choices. Obviously some were the wrong choices.
But up until 25 June they weren't fatal. And frankly, once again, if murray had done what he had been doing on the previous nights, we most likely wouldn't be talking about this.

This isn't about Michael's choices or what the people around him could or should have done, is it? It's about murray's ACTIONS.
 
cinzia said:
I think we all wish we could go back in time and tell Michael what he should do. But looking at this now, even with the benefit of hindsight, it is hard to say what should have been done or by whom. Who really had the, let's say authority, over Michael to say go to the hospital? If Michael was convinced he could handle what was going on, whatever that was, and had confidence in his doctor, who could tell him otherwise? Michael was Michael. Put yourself in his place. If someone said, say, you don't look so good, go to the hospital and you didn't think you needed to go, would you? I bet not. Right or wrong, he made his choices. Obviously some were the wrong choices.
But up until 25 June they weren't fatal. And frankly, once again, if murray had done what he had been doing on the previous nights, we most likely wouldn't be talking about this.

This isn't about Michael's choices or what the people around him could or should have done, is it? It's about murray's ACTIONS.
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I know it's Murray's fault but I am just pissed that MJ is dead over something so stupid. I wish MJ had better and more loving folks around him that cared and wanted what was best for him. He had no one. His own family didn't even care. It's just so sad
 
I understand totally. But sometimes even with a caring and loving family, it just isn't enough. There is nothing harder in life, I have discovered, that knowing what ought to be done and having your loved one say, no I won't do it. And then you have to pick up the pieces and try to carry on, all the time looking back and saying, if only...or..why didn't I...But that way lies anger and depression and it can drive you out of your mind if you let it. Really the only one whose actions we can control is our own. Sometimes I confess, I get angry at Michael and want to yell at him, how COULD you have been so stupid?? How could you not know any better? What the hell were you thinking??? How could you trust your life to someone like that??
Pretty awful, I know.
 
Whatever Michael wants, Michael gets. Someone said that, I just don't remember who. The Pope can beg him to stop and not tempt fate and Mike would still do it. He's that hardheaded and stubborn and he was willing to take that chance. That's what I gathered from my research of 2 years and is just my opinion. It's not meant as negative criticism.
 
Take what chance.he hired a dr to look after him. If he didnt care he would have been taking the stuff himself.u think hr knew murray was clueless abd said go ahead anyway.what research reading tabs.
 
We don't for a fact without a doubt KNOW what transpired between Michael and murray. We will probably never KNOW. We will have murray's side of all of this but never will we have Michael's. I ask myself, if Michael was indeed using propofol during the History tour, he surely must have remembered what equipment etc., was involved and available 'just in case'. If the anesthesiologist, who's name I've just blanked out, was taking reasonable precautions, why couldn't Michael see that murray was not? What made him place so much trust in this guy?
Maybe the benzos made him forget some things each time and murray 'filled in the gaps'. Who knows.
I dunno. I feel like a squirrel running around and around in circles.

I do not think he was 'willing to take a chance,' however. That has such a negative connotation. I do think that somehow murray assured him that all was well and he knew what he was doing and there would be no risk. I just don't see Michael as playing games with his life like this. Heck for all we know it could be that murray suggested the propofol to Michael because he 'knew' of his previous use of it and saw this as an easy way to get him to sleep.
 
HIStory tour was more than 10 years ago and if Michael got propofol then I don´t think he remembered all details about equipment they used.
Besides things change and maybe Murray told him he didn´t need all these things nowadays,it´s enough with a doctor to monitor him.
Maybe Murray assured him if something went wrong-and it was unlikely- the doctor would do CPR and call the ambulance.Michael would be in the hospital really soon.
Michael wouldn´t know that Murray didn´t monitor him at all.

I believe Michael would be alive today if he didn´t get the propofol to quickly and if someone was monitoring him.
 
well if what Nurse Lee said is true she warned him. I don't know how credible she is though
 
Except we know that Michael insisted on an anesthesiologist for any anesthesia for the children's dental work and didn't Dr. Treacy say something similar, ie., no anesthesia without an anesthesiologist?
But yes. murray obviously told Michael something.
Someone wrote in another thread that maybe murray was using benzos to get him to sleep and the propofol to keep him asleep. Is this so farfetched?

But back to the original question. If KO meant there were absolutely no rehearsals at all, well, that would be a silly thing to say when it is easy to prove. So could be that he was just referring to the ones with Michael considering why he was testifying.
 
HIStory tour was more than 10 years ago and if Michael got propofol then I don´t think he remembered all details about equipment they used.
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Oh please 10 yrs + going by would not be a reason why a person would forget having proper equipment in their house for something like this! Murray had nothing there so MJ just forgot everything?! I don't think so! I don't believe the whole six weeks thing!
 
bluetopez said:
Oh please 10 yrs + going by would not be a reason why a person would forget having proper equipment in their house for something like this! Murray had nothing there so MJ just forgot everything?! I don't think so! I don't believe the whole six weeks thing!
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me either Michael would of been gone longggg before he was if Murray was giving it to him for six weeks.....as stupid as Murray is..please,,,he couldnt administer that for that length of time.
 
cinzia said:
Except we know that Michael insisted on an anesthesiologist for any anesthesia for the children's dental work and didn't Dr. Treacy say something similar, ie., no anesthesia without an anesthesiologist?
But yes. murray obviously told Michael something.
Someone wrote in another thread that maybe murray was using benzos to get him to sleep and the propofol to keep him asleep. Is this so farfetched?

But back to the original question. If KO meant there were absolutely no rehearsals at all, well, that would be a silly thing to say when it is easy to prove. So could be that he was just referring to the ones with Michael considering why he was testifying.
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Dr. Treacy said that he refused anesethesia without an anesthetist:

 
Without having some qualifications in anesthesiology... this is what Dr. Treacy says at the very end. And I'll bet this is why murray told those 2 'expert witnesses' that he had 'experience in giving propofol...' because then he could argue that his 'experience' met Michael's need for having someone with 'qualification(s) in anesthesiology'.
Very clever of murray and devious. So glad the judge didn't okay those 2 witness letters.
What a snake he is.

Thanks for posting that clip...
 
I am glad the judge will refuse the experts to testify for Murray. If Murray wants to tell his story let his ass get on the witness stand
 
elusive moonwalker said:
Take what chance.he hired a dr to look after him. If he didnt care he would have been taking the stuff himself.u think hr knew murray was clueless abd said go ahead anyway.what research reading tabs.
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He took a chance with an idiot of a doctor because he was desperate enough to overlook that fact. He took a chance by not demanding the resuscitating equipment and nurse. A desperate man who has not slept for days will take that chance.

Tabloids are not the only source of information.
 
Over look the fact that murray was an idiot? If mj thought that i doubt he would have been using murray since 08. You seem to have no problem blaming mj for what happened but dont look at what murray said or did. To put mj in such a position.

murray was the one asking for the equipment for london not for L.A. Why was that.did he not intend to use the dip until they were in london? Ignoring adams when he told him he could come on the tour in order to look after mj.what did murray tell mj if he was giving dip for 6 weeks about not having equipment around.what did he tell mj inorder for him to think it was ok considering what treachy said .thats of course if u believe he was giving it for6 weeks. How do we know that the 25th wasnt the first time murray gave it? We wont until we get the info in the trial. there are many unanswered questions yet u have no problem blaming the victim and not the person incharge ie murray

the fact u are even using the tabloids for research sums it up!
 
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How do we know mj even asked for diprivan that night. We know murray is blatently lieing about why mj asked him to come to the house that night.he claimed mj rung and said im dehydrated and cant sleep yet mj was not even home from rehersals when that call was made.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
Over look the fact that murray was an idiot? If mj thought that i doubt he would have been using murray since 08. You seem to have no problem blaming mj for what happened but dont look at what murray said or did. To put mj in such a position.

murray was the one asking for the equipment for london not for L.A. Why was that.did he not intend to use the dip until they were in london? Ignoring adams when he told him he could come on the tour in order to look after mj.what did murray tell mj if he was giving dip for 6 weeks about not having equipment around.what did he tell mj inorder for him to think it was ok considering what treachy said .thats of course if u believe he was giving it for6 weeks. How do we know that the 25th wasnt the first time murray gave it? We wont until we get the info in the trial. there are many unanswered questions yet u have no problem blaming the victim and not the person incharge ie murray

the fact u are even using the tabloids for research sums it up!
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Oops, I think I'm not good at expressing myself. I read the above response to my post and I don't think there's nothing I can say that will make elusive get less angry with me.

Dear elusive, please believe me when I say I was not blaming Mike. As the saying goes, it's complicated. I agree - let's just wait for the trial.

By the way, when I said tabloids are not the only source of information, I meant I read everything, including comments/opinions on discussion boards and blogs, among others, and based on what I read, I exercise my own judgment. Tabloids are despicable but sometimes they get it right, e.g. the Senator Edwards case.
 
Correction: That's a double negative. It should read "I think there's nothing I can say...."
 
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