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John Barnes should be credited as the main producer of Bad

mack77

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Together with MJ. He should also be credited as the producer of "We are the World." Listening to the MJ Cast, episodes 89 and 142, its clear that John Barnes was working with Michael at Encino for a year and a half before Quincy and Bruce ever showed up. Songs like Another part of me, Dirty Diana, Liberian Girl, the way you make me feel (Hot fever) were fleshed out already before Quincy got his hands on them. 8 of the 11 songs on Bad had a great deal of John's input. Other notable producers that should be recognized as such were Matt Forger and Bill Bottrell. When Quincy and Bruce showed up, they would rerecord instrumental parts laid down by John Barnes with their own musicians. John Barnes is quoted as saying why are they rerecording parts we already did, in exactly the same way. Barnes, along with Forger and Bottrell, executed the creative vision of Michael. They did the hard yards. Barnes even learned how to use the synclavier during the making of the Bad album. All Quincy did was make slight adjustments to what was already 95 % there, and in some cases such as Another part of me, made the track less funky. That is not to say that Quincy had no production work on Bad. He produced Man in the Mirror, Just Good friends and Leave me alone seems to be a late production. What happened with We are the World was disgraceful (Listen to episode 89 from 34: 30). Barnes and MJ had already recorded that song, he even wrote the bridge, but was told by Quincy that his name wasn't famous enough to go on it.
 
Nothing against the A-Team but the B-Team really built the foundation of the records. Barnes said most of the stuff was done at various studios before re-recording at Westlake. Quincy helped bring out elements of certain songs but I don't think he should get as much credit as he does
 
Quincy was pretty much tapped out by Bad. He and MJ were already deciding to go their own ways at this point. It was Teddy Riley MJ wanted at this point already, wasn't it?
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Quincy was pretty much tapped out by Bad. He and MJ were already deciding to go their own ways at this point. It was Teddy Riley MJ wanted at this point already, wasn't it?
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wasn't Michael trying to get LA Reid and Babyface as well?

I think Michael and Quincy separated at the right time.....nothing worse than trying to create magic that's not there anymore
 
I find it interesting that Dangerous is considered the first album with multiple producers, when Bad really had at least 4 (or 5 if you count MJ), with Barnes, Forger, Bottrell, and Quincy. Listening to the MJ cast, it seems to me that the Encino team really contributed 80 % of the production of that album, with Quincy's Westlake team contributing 20 %.
 
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Derek1984 said:
If it wasn't for Quincy we'd never have Man In the Mirror. We'd also never have Just Good Friends :)
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That's true, but Barnes and the Encino team are almost never acknowledged at all in comparison. The general public and even a lot of music publications don't even know of their existence. Quincy taking credit for We are the World really shows a lack of character. Its a bit disappointing that MJ never really publicly acknowledged Barnes and set the record straight. Quincy gets overly praised and critics claim that it was because MJ left Quincy after Bad that it supposedly lead to a quality downfall with Dangerous and a lack of cohesion since MJ used multiple producers. But he already had multiple producers on Bad, and Quincy didn't produce most of it.
 
BlackAnon said:
wasn't Michael trying to get LA Reid and Babyface as well?

I think Michael and Quincy separated at the right time.....nothing worse than trying to create magic that's not there anymore
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They tried it but nothing came of it. Bryan Loren was the actual successor to Quincy post Bad if I remember right. Then he went back with Teddy, I think on Quincy's recommendation.
 
It's a tricky one. From what I've gathered the sessions with Quincy produced Bad (the song), Speed Demon, ICSLY, Man in the Mirror and Just Good Friends. Whilst all the others were near-completion by the time they arrived at Westlake. It's true that Barnes is due a lot more credit than he's been given, but if anyone was given a sole producer credit on Bad it'd be Michael himself. With Q, Barnes and Bottrell as co-producers
 
Cheater and Groove of Midnight are also songs that were produced by the A-team, right? Are there more songs that they produced?
 
Would've been interesting if MJ worked with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis during BAD or Dangerous but I guess that was never an option at the time considering they were with Janet.
 
robotchicken14 said:
It's a tricky one. From what I've gathered the sessions with Quincy produced Bad (the song), Speed Demon, ICSLY, Man in the Mirror and Just Good Friends. Whilst all the others were near-completion by the time they arrived at Westlake. It's true that Barnes is due a lot more credit than he's been given, but if anyone was given a sole producer credit on Bad it'd be Michael himself. With Q, Barnes and Bottrell as co-producers
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Actually, even Speed Demon had a semi-realized demo before the Westlake sessions. It was only explored further in the sessions with Quincy.
 
ChanceToDance said:
Cheater and Groove of Midnight are also songs that were produced by the A-team, right? Are there more songs that they produced?
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“Cheater” was the B-Team—Bottrell, Forger, Phillinganes, and David Williams were the only participants. I don’t believe it ever made it to Westlake.

“Groove of Midnight” was a Temperton submission, so it definitely went through Quincy.
 
robotchicken14 said:
It's a tricky one. From what I've gathered the sessions with Quincy produced Bad (the song), Speed Demon, ICSLY, Man in the Mirror and Just Good Friends. Whilst all the others were near-completion by the time they arrived at Westlake. It's true that Barnes is due a lot more credit than he's been given, but if anyone was given a sole producer credit on Bad it'd be Michael himself. With Q, Barnes and Bottrell as co-producers
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Many of the songs on BAD were recorded up to 4 years prior with B-Team…A-Team probably didn’t come into the picture until end of 1986
 
AlwaysThere said:
“Cheater” was the B-Team—Bottrell, Forger, Phillinganes, and David Williams were the only participants. I don’t believe it ever made it to Westlake.

“Groove of Midnight” was a Temperton submission, so it definitely went through Quincy.
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I think he was in the session while it was being worked on but I don’t think MJ recorded a full version of GOM….both of Tempertons contributions [Hot Street and GOM] went to Siedah.
 
It's unreleated, but I have a question to ask AlwaysThere and BlackAnon: can you help me with a recording session calendar I'm planning on doing?
 
Derek1984 said:
Would've been interesting if MJ worked with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis during BAD or Dangerous but I guess that was never an option at the time considering they were with Janet.
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It wouldn't have worked regardless because of them having dealings with prince
 
SeriousFX said:
Actually, even Speed Demon had a semi-realized demo before the Westlake sessions. It was only explored further in the sessions with Quincy.
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Is the story not that MJ got a speeding ticket on the way to Westlake, and Q told him to write a song about it? I thought it originated there and then with the A-team
 
For those that have Bad 25, does the album booklet have detailed credits for the 6 new songs? Does it list producers? I've tried to search discogs for that information but found nothing
 
mack77 said:
For those that have Bad 25, does the album booklet have detailed credits for the 6 new songs? Does it list producers? I've tried to search discogs for that information but found nothing
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Quote from the booklet:

"Original Hayvenhurst Studio Engineers on Demo Recordings - Matt Forger, Bill Bottrell
Original Hayvenhurst Sound Design on Demo Recordings - Michael Jackson, John Barnes (for Sounds in Experiment, Inc.)
Audio restoration, CD 2 (demo tracks): Matt Forger"

So no credits for each individual demo, but an all-encompassing credit to Barnes, Forger and Bottrell for the 6 demos.
 
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