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Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date April 2, 2013

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Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

passy001 said:
It's pretty obvious who the source of the leak is. In the end MJ will pay those sanctions through his Estate. That's the sad reality.
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I hope not!
I was re-reading kids GAL's objections from earlier case and she could and hopefully will object any payments from estate on Katherine behalf.
http://www.radaronline.com/sites/radaronline.com/files/Michael Jackson Probate Court Docs.pdf
on page 3 and 6th part: this was of no benefit to the estate as whole, protecting Katherine's position as a beneficiary.

She could use the same argument this time too in case she is seeking the estate's to pay. What she has done(or her side in this case), the estate as whole is not benefitting her actions, rather opposite, and executors should not give a penny to her or her lawyers. She could have stopped the whole thing, but she didn't, so she can ask money from Randy.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

Mann says he has a copy of Sander's retainer agreement with Katherine. It should have been a confidential document / private document for Katherine and no access to Mann.
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This bit is too scary...How can KJ be so effing reckless? why would she give such private and confidential document to a complete stranger? Now she's asking for the full audit of the estate so she can distribute these highly sensitive financial details of the Estate to her henchmen like Mann. That's just unacceptable.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

passy001 said:
This bit is too scary...How can KJ be so effing reckless? why would she give such private and confidential document to a complete stranger? Now she's asking for the full audit of the estate so she can distribute these highly sensitive financial details of the Estate to her henchmen like Mann. That's just unacceptable.
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I agree. No wonder executors are against giving any financial details in DeMann case, and now Katherine and her lawyer wants details too. If executors give these details to Katherine, they will end up in LA Time front page as Mann, Sullivan and Sanders seems to be one happy circle of friends.
At least if the judge orders sanctions to Katherine's side, I hope executors use it for their defence why they don't want to give much of info for K and Co. There is big fat leak in her camp, executors cannot take a risk that K and Co can keep highly confidential document safe.

It could have Randy that gave that agreement to Mann, he used to have an access to house and I doubt Katherine hide those papers from any of her children.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

Gotta laugh at how the Jacksons (namely Randy "I'm so proud of my family for filing this lawsuit" Jackson) thought they were so Big & Bad going after AEG, like none of their shady, back-alley deals would ever be exposed. LOL! With their biggest ally being Howard "The Estate Just Handed Me My A$$" Mann.

The mighty, mighty Jacksons, who love to call themselves "Music Royalty," yet all they could come up with is Mann and a bunch of OTHER knuckleheads that have, thus far, only lead them down a doomed path of destruction and mega embarrassment.

One this is for sure: AEG AIN'T PLAYING!
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

"Maybe an ufo landed to Katherine house, took the docs and gave them to Harriet Ryan?
I had a good laugh at when they even accused AEG themselves leaking these docs."

Agreed, they should subpoenaed E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial, we all know he did it, lol.
 
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Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

We learned several things

- AEG isn't playing and isn't backing down. This was obvious for a while now but it still continues , they are taking this seriously, aren't gonna play kind, they will fight this thing. I mean they even hired a forensic document expert that compared the copier errors and ghost lines. They aren't playing.

- The documents are leaked and came from the discovery. The expert report finds out that some documents were only given to KJ's lawyers, some documents top and bottom parts are cut crudely (an uneven cut) to remove the header and footer (confidentiality notices or bates numbers on them). Those aren't public documents.

- Mann doesn't make sense. He says he doesn't know what was in the box but then sends an email saying to Lloyds lawyers to read the upcoming article that he was a source for to see "AEG's inside dealings". If he didn't know what was in the box and what the article will be about why is he telling Lloyds to look for information about AEG's inside dealings?

- Someone had to help Mann with this leak. It's either one of Katherine's lawyers, Sanders or Randy. Mann was an intermediary.

- KJ's lawyers defense of you don't have the smoking gun, you can't pin this one on us for certain, shows that - at least to me - they really wanted to pin this leak to Lloyds or at least make it seem like the source can't be determined for either way. However they didn't follow the Lloyds case enough to know that there was a stay on that case, later judge ordered the discovery start but then appointed a referee who find a middle ground and so on and the discovery had just started on that case , Lloyds simply didn't have the documents / emails to leak. They also was forthcoming with the email sent to them by Mann. so Lloyds blew the lid. So it was a nice try to blame Lloyds but it epicly failed.

- and if we didn't know we see that Katherine is controlled. Mann meets up with Sanders through his friend Sullivan and then recommends Katherine to hire him and has a copy of her retainer agreement with Sanders. This is no different that Mann signed a deal with Melissa Johnson and then made Katherine sit down for an interview at GMA and gave statements and so on. I still don't blame Katherine, she's a naive old woman that's being pulled to sides.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

So Mann is friends with Randy Sullivan, the writer of the book and the Vanity Fair article?
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

jaydom7 said:
So Mann is friends with Randy Sullivan, the writer of the book and the Vanity Fair article?
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yes he is

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Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

I'll tell you one thing, although Randy Jackson is the one who loves to say: This Is Not Over!

AEG is the one who has put true meaning behind those words.

For AEG, This TRULY Is Not Over!
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

AEG has filed multiple documents on October 17. The 12 page motion that I posted in full publicly.

The rests are
- multiple sworn statements that they (AEG lawyers did not leak the documents).
- the forensic document expert report - which is highly redacted and the findings are nicely summarized in the motion
- parts from Howard Mann and Janice Smith (Katherine's assistant) depositions.

I'll now provide some more info based on the partial depositions.

Janice Smith snippets is really short and it just consists of her saying in spring 2012 Katherine's lawyers brought a big binder of documents to Katherine's house to go over them. Janice didn't see the documents, Janice doesn't know what happened to the binder.

AEG is using this to debunk Katherine's sworn statement in which she said she was not ever in possession of the confidential documents.

Mann's deposition is like I said is also partial. Mann's connection to Sanders through Sullivan, how he got him hired, and how he got Katherine's personal retainer agreement is used to show it's a possibility that Sanders might have given documents to Mann. Briefly Lowell Henry giving documents previously as well is also mentioned. So although the examples of documents given by Sanders and Henry is not relevant to this case they bring the suspicion that they might have given other stuff as well.

Katherine's business agreements with Mann is also explored - there's nothing that we don't know - to demonstrate that Mann has close ties to Katherine and not just a random outsider third party.

Mann is really vague about what he gave to LA Times reporter. He says he doesn't know what he gave to her. He says he only knows the box had a copy of the will and the trust he got it from the internet and he doesn't know the 99% of the rest of the documents. This seems fishy given that he sent an email to Lloyds stating to look out for the article about AEG's inside dealings.

It turns out Alan Duke found about the email Mann sent to Lloyds (probably Lloyds were denying that they were the leak and telling everyone what Mann sent to them) and asked Mann to confirm. Of course at that point Mann calls his email to Lloyds as stupidity and the thing that started this all. He wasn't very smart in hiding his involvement.

He says Radar Online and News of the World reporters also told him that they had access to these documents / emails. He denies giving it to them. Mann really trashes Radar Online and also says that he worked with / employed News of the World before. (Didn't News of the World was the one that leaked Michael's trust documents?)

Mann says it's true that he got some of the stuff from the fans but the rest is not filed. So we don't know the details.

Mann explains his actions as to formulate a relationship with Lloyds and LA Times reporter. He wanted to exchange information and become a common adversary to MJ Estate. It seems like he emailed Lloyds before about "MJ Estate / AEG fraud" which Lloyds ignored too.

Now you are going to ask what is the "MJ Estate / AEG Fraud". Mann believes the insurance money should have been directly paid to the beneficiaries and MJ Estate and AEG is in an active fraud to get the money to themselves. What Mann fails to realize is that it's Lloyds who filed that lawsuit not to pay anything to anyone. He also fails to understand that this was a cancellation policy that MJ Company was a party. It wasn't a personal insurance.

Mann mentions 4 additional sources but refuses to name them or provide any information based on journalistic privilege.

Oh and not surprisingly we learn that Randy Phillips and Roger Friedman had exchanged emails about Michael dating back to at least 2009. So KJ's lawyers claims that Phillips is the source of Friedman's articles how AEG will seek sanctions against the leaks. They also claim AEG gave the motion to Friedman before they were served. AEG counters this saying that Friedman got it after it was filed publicly. (Normally parties first file the motion with the clerks office and then serve it to the opposite side overnight. So any reporter can get the motion earlier if they get paper copies from the clerks office as they are filed)
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

Sullivan is about to release a book trashing the Jacksons. I think Mann is going to regret getting him involved with Katherine. With all the hoopla already surrounding that book and the threats of lawsuits, I can easily see the Jacksons kicking Mann to the curb and saying that he should have known better about Sullivan.
 
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Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

elusive moonwalker said:
"Mann says his friend Randall Sullivan "

the one who wrote the book? intresting
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Indeed! That would explain why some fans felt the book was a piece in support of Katherine Jackson. It all comes together in the end ...
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

ivy said:
- and if we didn't know we see that Katherine is controlled. Mann meets up with Sanders through his friend Sullivan and then recommends Katherine to hire him and has a copy of her retainer agreement with Sanders. This is no different that Mann signed a deal with Melissa Johnson and then made Katherine sit down for an interview at GMA and gave statements and so on. I still don't blame Katherine, she's a naive old woman that's being pulled to sides.
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I suppose this is what Randy meant in his crappy letter Katherine being caught in the middle. He directed his accusations to executors for causing this to K, but seemingly source is closer to home. Randy brought Mann, Mann brought Sanders, Sanders brought Sullivan, what else?

I feel very uncomfortable now that we know Mann, Sanders and Sullivan are trio of "friends" and Sanders want's to do extensive audit to estate's books. How executors can get guarantee that Sanders doesn't leak the information to Mann?

I think it is the estate executors turn to take Katherine to spa holiday away from these sharks, including her own family members!


Ivy, you probably didn't see my earlier question about can Mann hide behind journalistic confidentiality if he is not journalist?
Do you know?
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

Now I see why Sanders is working with Mann. Mann is the one who persuaded KJ to hire him. That also explains why he's in possession of the retainer agreement between Sanders and KJ. This means that at any moment Mann can persuade KJ to fire him. So for Sanders, its just a matter of self-preservation to work with Mann.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

I still don't understand the level of control that Mann, a complete stranger, has over KJ. It's just mind-boggling.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

Katherine's grown ass cubs got her into this mess... but she's not stupid.. I don't buy the senile old lady crap with her. She is not as naive as she pretends.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

Just asking but, the Estate can't pay , cause everything they do is verified by a judge no? And what do the Jacksons ,grandma included, it's the business of the Jacksons not the business of the Estate.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

"they really wanted to pin this leak to Lloyds or at least make it seem like the source can't be determined for either way."

Isn't it illegal or even criminal to do something like that. Can Lloyd's lawyer files a slander suit against KJ's team?
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

Personally I think Randy Jackson is involved in this leak. I mean he's behind the lawsuit, he got these lawyers for Katherine. The same lawyers also represent him. Media claimed Randy is also behind Katherine's deal with Mann. So I'm assuming Randy was being kept updated about the lawsuit as well.

It seems they had the brilliant idea to leak the documents and portray AEG in a bad light and in the process pin it on Lloyds. All they needed a reasonable doubt , being able to say it could have been Lloyds too. But like I said these "brilliant" people did not realize that the discovery was just starting at Lloyds lawsuit and Lloyds did not have the documents to start with. Lloyds also would not be slandered so they quickly turned over Mann who stupidly emailed them beforehand.

Then it became a possibilities game - not different than Murray's Mj drank propofol, took too many lorezepam, self injected etc. defenses. Now KJ side is trying to create doubt by Lloyds did it oh my bad they couldn't have done it, Mann did it alone, perhaps it was a naughty contract lawyer, perhaps you did it, perhaps those leaked before any confidentiality agreement was in place so there's no wrongdoing, perhaps it was a secret criminal... Give it a while and probably we'll hear it was aliens or big foot that leaked them.

AEG is not playing and debunking left and right, the documents were in the discovery format with confidential stamps so it couldn't have leaked before the confidentiality agreement, there was no contract attorney on case, AEG had no motive to portray themselves in a bad light and reporter asking for comment from them and AEG's request for investigations demonstrate they weren't behind the leak, a secret criminal idea is just dumb and Mann couldn't have done the leak alone - unless he's also the secret criminal - someone had to give him access.

Next week we'll see how this one plays out..


Ivy, you probably didn't see my earlier question about can Mann hide behind journalistic confidentiality if he is not journalist?
Do you know?
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Hard to say. He's not a journalist but this is not the first time he claimed things he wasn't - for example he claimed the secret vault website and he was a internet service provider and cannot be kept responsible for the contents. At this point in time he's refusing to name his sources, I'm not seeing AEG pushing for specific identities either. If they push for it and/or if a special master is appointed for further investigation he might be forced to name his sources. As of now he's not talking.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

I agree with you Ivy. I think Randy Jackson was part of this leak.. His whole 'it's not over' comment after granny uno spa gate went down makes me point the finger to him.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

AEG will fight this tooth and nail. They do not want their name to be mentioned as one of the reasons for the death of Michael Jackson. They don't want to turn on the tv and hear somebody talking about AEG and saying "oh yeah they are the ones responible for the death of the KOP" No way they will ever let that happen!

This family has sunk soooo low. Lower than I ever dreamed was possible. They say they love Michael but they love money more. Michael's personal and professional reputation be damned...

Leaving before I say something that will get me banned:no:
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

passy001 said:
I still don't understand the level of control that Mann, a complete stranger, has over KJ. It's just mind-boggling.
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Howard is doing things by order of Randy Jackson.

But Howard is the convenient fall guy. If he gets blamed for things, they cut him off, let themselves believe AEG/fans will blame this terrible outsider, while their own dealings go unseen.

I remember when the stuff with Howard Mann first came to light, fans were asking Randy on twitter during one of his conferences about how Howard was shady and something needed to be done to protect her. Little did they know that it was Randy who had hooked her up with him to begin with. That was going entirely according to his plans.

Someone told me a long long time ago that the Jacksons use third parties in their dealings with the media in order to give off some plausible deniabillity to their actions. Everything that happened this summer confirmed that to me.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

I wish Katherine would just drop this now.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

U couldnt write a film script like it. they are truely unbelievable. but the most annoying thing is the public are clueless about this and the families games. they just keep their tight nit we loved mj b.s going. even though this summer has effected that to an extent

if the judge buys any of these excuses hes an idiot
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

@elusive, you are right. I'm sure if there is someone to write a script based what we know here, it would get nominated for Pulitzer prize and would be Oscar worthy comedy/thriller/horror/drama.
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The worst thing is that even if Mann is removed from Katherine's circle of friends, there is a long queue another ones ready to take his place, including fam members. These kind crooks are like sharks when they get sniff of blood. This will keep going on as long Katherine and her family allow this to happen. Once she is gone, these sharks are going to be circling around kids (there are few money thirsty sharks around them already) as they are going to be millionaires.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

Who knows what Mann will do if he is removed from KJ's inner circle. Write a tell all book?
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

la_cienega said:
Howard is doing things by order of Randy Jackson.

But Howard is the convenient fall guy. If he gets blamed for things, they cut him off, let themselves believe AEG/fans will blame this terrible outsider, while their own dealings go unseen.
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I agree. Mann's involvement in this fiasco is only going to draw more questions to the Jacksons, in my opinion. It's only a matter of time before they get fed up with the unwanted attention that they're getting because of him and they will kick him to the curb.
 
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Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

shelly_webster said:
Who knows what Mann will do if he is removed from KJ's inner circle. Write a tell all book?
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I'm sure he will. He'll probably claim that Randy told him to lie about the will being fake. That will be his first line of attack.
 
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