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Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date April 2, 2013

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Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

Perhaps it's just me but I'm seeing this as a complete mockery of court sanctions, surely it is the responsibility of all sides to keep sealed documents secure and if they don't then there should, at the very least, receive a slap on the wrist.

Why did they leak the emails? Because they can!
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

Judge is a joke. has he got shares in the media outlets. cause as usual with the american system u can leak docs, try to taint jurys and nothing happens. especially if those leaks hurt mj.about time we started getting some leaks about the family depos .if the judge thinks theres to many conflicting stories about who leaked them ie mann who the heck does he think mann got the docs from? well doh it aint rocket science except it is for this judge.

once again the jacksons get away with it. and mj gets crapped on.the devil looks after his own blahhh.:-$
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

It's unfair to talk about the judge like that when you know that it's his job to be impartial. Judge believes that Katherine's lawyers were able to give alternative possible scenarios and AEG weren't able to debunk them all.

I'll post a part from one of my older posts

a secret criminal idea is just dumb and Mann couldn't have done the leak alone - unless he's also the secret criminal - someone had to give him access.
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so you can see that it's possible that Mann was given the documents but it is equally possible that he stole the documents for example when KJ's lawyers brought copies to her house.

Similarly we haven't seen anything that Katherine's side filed during this sanctions. They tried to file everything - including the emails- publicly and AEG asked them to be sealed. So the court clerk did not file anything as they waited for the judge's order. Now we have learned that Katherine's lawyers had 2 experts of their own who said the quality of the copies were so bad to do a proper identification and that AEG's expert ignored some marks on the paper. That made the expert reports circumstantial as well.

So as you can see the judge is left with a lot of circumstantial evidence and thinks that it's insufficient to establish a willful breach.

As for any damage to AEG the judge thinks the issue can be solved by a careful selection of the jury and thinks actually banning the emails would give AEG a better position.
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

To me its common sense nothing more.the family can say the tooth fairy leaked them and if aeg cant debunk it then thats enough to get the family off. of course im being sarcastic interms of the fairy but to me thats why mann came out saying i did it and got the docs from many diff sources. it was to create a smokescreen. yeah im fed up so maybe im being ott i dunno. but ppl get sent to death in the usa on circumstantial evidence yet this judge says he cant make a ruling on this cause they werent caught red handed. once again the u.s system lets ppl do what it wants interms of leaking, printing sealed docs and once again theres no punishment. have they never heard of the heard contempt of court? theres no point having a law that seals docs if ppl and the media can then print these docs if they are given them. it makes a mockery of the sydtem and we have seen it time and time again when it comes to mj but i guess as long as its making money for the media and lawyers it gets brushed under the carpet.

lets see what gets leaked next.
 
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Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

As a friend who works as a magistrate said. the justice system isnt about the truth its about what u can prove
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

I still think that certain parties should still be held responsible for being careless with sealed court documents, ie they shouldn't be left around where they could be stolen. I hope, at least, that the judge had some harsh words.
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

LastTear said:
I still think that certain parties should still be held responsible for being careless with sealed court documents, ie they shouldn't be left around where they could be stolen. I hope, at least, that the judge had some harsh words.
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I agree. And the fact is that the emails did get leaked against court orders whether from willful actions or carelessness. And I think that somebody needs to answer for that. Even if it means only going to the court and apologizing. Especially since Mann admitted in the media that he leaked the emails. He's in that mess up to his eyeballs. But because he's not a direct part of the AEG case, nothing happens?
 
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Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

Kingofpop4ever3000 said:
I agree. I really don't care anymore how those emails got leaked. The fact is that they did get leaked against court orders whether from williful actions or carelessness. And I think that somebody needs to answer for that. Even if it means just going to the court and apologizing. I don't understannd how this issue can just get swept under the rug like that.
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Perhaps the judge did. Unfortunately we don't know exactly what was said only the outcome. That's what I am hoping anyway.
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

LastTear said:
I still think that certain parties should still be held responsible for being careless with sealed court documents, ie they shouldn't be left around where they could be stolen. I hope, at least, that the judge had some harsh words.
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Ditto! ...But then again it depends who's the judge. He pretty much decides how much the slap on the wrist be.
If the amont is that miniscule , he makes a circus outta court.....travesty of justice ptff!

 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

passy001 said:
Translation: The MJ Estate can save some cash 'cause any sanction means that the MJ Estate fork out the cash under the direction of KJ lawyers.
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I doubt very much the estate saved much money from this episode. I wonder how much this motion and day in court cost for mrs j's side, with all those lawyers on $100s an hour and forensic experts galore. All to have plastered in the media that mj was called a 'basketcase' by his concert promotor.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

Bonnie Blue said:
I doubt very much the estate saved much money from this episode. I wonder how much this motion and day in court cost for mrs j's side, with all those lawyers on $100s an hour and forensic experts galore. All to have plastered in the media that mj was called a 'basketcase' by his concert promotor.
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Hmmmm yup. Who have they really hurt by leaking those emails. *sigh* The contents of those emails only confirm what the media and general public already thought about Michael :(
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

elusive moonwalker said:
To me its common sense nothing more.the family can say the tooth fairy leaked them and if aeg cant debunk it then thats enough to get the family off. of course im being sarcastic interms of the fairy but to me thats why mann came out saying i did it and got the docs from many diff sources. it was to create a smokescreen. yeah im fed up so maybe im being ott i dunno. but ppl get sent to death in the usa on circumstantial evidence yet this judge says he cant make a ruling on this cause they werent caught red handed. once again the u.s system lets ppl do what it wants interms of leaking, printing sealed docs and once again theres no punishment. have they never heard of the heard contempt of court? theres no point having a law that seals docs if ppl and the media can then print these docs if they are given them. it makes a mockery of the sydtem and we have seen it time and time again when it comes to mj but i guess as long as its making money for the media and lawyers it gets brushed under the carpet.

lets see what gets leaked next.
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I totally agree with you. To me this ruling is ridiculous, when it's quite clear which side leaked the emails. Howard Mann even admitted it was him. Like you said, people get sent to death on circumstantial evidence. A sanction should've been imposed here. By this logic anyone can come and say "Oops, someone stole my documents and leaked them" and will get away with it.
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

LastTear said:
Perhaps it's just me but I'm seeing this as a complete mockery of court sanctions, surely it is the responsibility of all sides to keep sealed documents secure and if they don't then there should, at the very least, receive a slap on the wrist.

Why did they leak the emails? Because they can!
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That is what I mean. Why would we listen to a judge and the court's ruling, if we can disregard the courts ruling, and cover up by doing actions to confuse the issues and the judge, causing the judge to throw up his hands and say, "oh I cannot tell for sure, so no sanctions." Why didn't the judge ask AEG to bring more concrete evidence. I mean the judge gave Randy and company so many opportunities to sit for their depositions. Why couldn't the judge give AEG a time to bring back some more evidence? Oh well, it is already over.

Is this case going before a jury or just a judge?
 
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Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

Petrarose said:
Is this case going before a jury or just a judge?
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jury

if it can survive a summary judgement of course - which we know AEG will definitely try.
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

Very disappointed judge's ruling. It is clear where the leak came from, but AEG couldn't prove it.

Wonder what is going to happen next? To be fair, AEG should leak something that they have discovered from Jackson's so they too would be presented in bad light for the possible jury. I would recommend to them, if they got something on family members, MJ paid their child supports, constantly begging money/touring from MJ or something similar, now would be the time to leak their info.

Sick of them getting free pass:(
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

Bubs said:
Very disappointed judge's ruling. It is clear where the leak came from, but AEG couldn't prove it.

Wonder what is going to happen next? To be fair, AEG should leak something that they have discovered from Jackson's so they too would be presented in bad light for the possible jury. I would recommend to them, if they got something on family members, MJ paid their child supports, constantly begging money/touring from MJ or something similar, now would be the time to leak their info.

Sick of them getting free pass:(
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This is what I don't get: If Howard Mann has admitted to giving the reporter the emails and that AEG and the judge are aware of his connection to KJ - how could they not find in AEG's favour? Surely reasonable doubt comes into play, it's not like it was a stranger who leaked them. I thought HM was going to have to give a deposition, do we know if that happened? I must be missing something I guess.
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

"He doesn't listen and is real hard-headed," he said of Randy, now 47. "You say it's dark - he'll say it's daylight. And he has to be macho. I'll never forget the day we had a meeting with our producer who said you've got to stand up on your own.


"Randy stood up and said: "I'm a man' - we all started laughing."
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Omg LOL! that too funny
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

LastTear said:
This is what I don't get: If Howard Mann has admitted to giving the reporter the emails and that AEG and the judge are aware of his connection to KJ - how could they not find in AEG's favour? Surely reasonable doubt comes into play, it's not like it was a stranger who leaked them. I thought HM was going to have to give a deposition, do we know if that happened? I must be missing something I guess.
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I read the ruling that Ivy posted, it said there that AEG expert's evidence was discredited by opponents own experts, so they couldn't pinpoint that the emails Mann gave to LA Times were the exactly the same than what Katherine or her lawyers had, thus judges ruling.

I hope AEG won't rest and are looking for more evidence that the leak came from Jackson's side.

I didn't hear anything from Mann's deposition either.
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

Bubs said:
I read the ruling that Ivy posted, it said there that AEG expert's evidence was discredited by opponents own experts, so they couldn't pinpoint that the emails Mann gave to LA Times were the exactly the same than what Katherine or her lawyers had, thus judges ruling.

I hope AEG won't rest and are looking for more evidence that the leak came from Jackson's side.

I didn't hear anything from Mann's deposition either.
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Thank you, I started reading the ruling last night but haven't read it all yet. I too hope AEG don't rest on it but I think they probably will and just concentrate on their defence. It's just all so underhand and devious and when Mann is involved it just gets my back up! I wonder how much he was paid via KJ, via MJ estate for his services.

Anyway, it's done now, I will try and move on LOL
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

I'm not liking the way Alan Duke is doing his job. He is not impartial (journalists are supposed to be impartial while reporting their stuff) and it can be seen in the article posted about this case.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/08/showbiz/jackson-aeg-ruling/

He keeps repeating the old stuff about what Randy Philips said about Michael:(
I wonder if he is being told (maybe someone from K camp as he is friend of K) to keep repeating that older story so when trial arrives, potential jury is being brain washed to think AEG=bad, Jackson's=good?




LastTear said:
It's just all so underhand and devious and when Mann is involved it just gets my back up! I wonder how much he was paid via KJ, via MJ estate for his services.
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It pisses me off more than I can say that if they got away this time, they get cocky and try to do it again.
The thought of that Michael paid for that somehow makes me physically ill:puke:
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

I think the leak issue is over for AEG. The summary judgement deadline is coming up - December. I think now AEG would put all of their effort on that and they will try to get the case dismissed before it goes to trial.
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

^^^ For Michael and his legacy, his kids and fans sake I keep my fingers grossed for AEG (I cannot believe I would support AEG, but they seems to be lesser bad option than the other one) and hope they get their summary judgement.



Thanks again Ivy for keeping us in the loop, without your info we would be lost:bow:
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

LastTear said:
This is what I don't get: If Howard Mann has admitted to giving the reporter the emails and that AEG and the judge are aware of his connection to KJ - how could they not find in AEG's favour? Surely reasonable doubt comes into play, it's not like it was a stranger who leaked them. I thought HM was going to have to give a deposition, do we know if that happened? I must be missing something I guess.
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Bubs said:
I read the ruling that Ivy posted, it said there that AEG expert's evidence was discredited by opponents own experts, so they couldn't pinpoint that the emails Mann gave to LA Times were the exactly the same than what Katherine or her lawyers had, thus judges ruling.

I hope AEG won't rest and are looking for more evidence that the leak came from Jackson's side.

I didn't hear anything from Mann's deposition either.
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I posted parts from Mann's deposition some weeks back.

To answer the question judge had two main issues

1. Conflicting expert reports : AEG's expert said that the documents can only come from Katherine's side by comparing trash marks (copier marks on the documents). Katherine's experts said the document quality was too low to make a determination and that AEG's expert ignored some of the marks.

2. Failure to show willful breach: Even though Mann could have been the source, AEG failed to show a willful breach - in other words they couldn't demonstrate KJ's lawyer saying to Mann "here take this and leak it". Judge thinks it's possible some other scenario might have happened - for example think about the "secret criminal" theory. For example imagine KJ's lawyers took her a binder of documents to examine and Mann takes stuff from those with no one knowing. So that's not a willful breach.

In other words it was too circumstantial for the judge.

I understand your unhappiness but realize that we operate on a lot more information. Judge only operates on what he's presented. So for us it makes sense that for example Randy Jackson who is behind AEG lawsuit might have gotten and given the documents to his partner Mann who happens to be anti AEG, Sony, Estate etc. Judge isn't considering such information. He's limited by what is presented to him
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

All this episode has done is tick aeg off even more, raised their costs in bringing this motion, and i'm sure they're going to be really determined to get the jacksons to pay their legal costs when the case is lost/thrown out.
 
Re: AEG emails leak / AEG files motion for sanctions against Jacksons / Doubts surfaced early on MJ

ivy said:
AEG has filed multiple documents on October 17. The 12 page motion that I posted in full publicly.

The rests are
- multiple sworn statements that they (AEG lawyers did not leak the documents).
- the forensic document expert report - which is highly redacted and the findings are nicely summarized in the motion
- parts from Howard Mann and Janice Smith (Katherine's assistant) depositions.

I'll now provide some more info based on the partial depositions.

Janice Smith snippets is really short and it just consists of her saying in spring 2012 Katherine's lawyers brought a big binder of documents to Katherine's house to go over them. Janice didn't see the documents, Janice doesn't know what happened to the binder.

AEG is using this to debunk Katherine's sworn statement in which she said she was not ever in possession of the confidential documents.

Mann's deposition is like I said is also partial. Mann's connection to Sanders through Sullivan, how he got him hired, and how he got Katherine's personal retainer agreement is used to show it's a possibility that Sanders might have given documents to Mann. Briefly Lowell Henry giving documents previously as well is also mentioned. So although the examples of documents given by Sanders and Henry is not relevant to this case they bring the suspicion that they might have given other stuff as well.

Katherine's business agreements with Mann is also explored - there's nothing that we don't know - to demonstrate that Mann has close ties to Katherine and not just a random outsider third party.

Mann is really vague about what he gave to LA Times reporter. He says he doesn't know what he gave to her. He says he only knows the box had a copy of the will and the trust he got it from the internet and he doesn't know the 99% of the rest of the documents. This seems fishy given that he sent an email to Lloyds stating to look out for the article about AEG's inside dealings.

It turns out Alan Duke found about the email Mann sent to Lloyds (probably Lloyds were denying that they were the leak and telling everyone what Mann sent to them) and asked Mann to confirm. Of course at that point Mann calls his email to Lloyds as stupidity and the thing that started this all. He wasn't very smart in hiding his involvement.

He says Radar Online and News of the World reporters also told him that they had access to these documents / emails. He denies giving it to them. Mann really trashes Radar Online and also says that he worked with / employed News of the World before. (Didn't News of the World was the one that leaked Michael's trust documents?)

Mann says it's true that he got some of the stuff from the fans but the rest is not filed. So we don't know the details.

Mann explains his actions as to formulate a relationship with Lloyds and LA Times reporter. He wanted to exchange information and become a common adversary to MJ Estate. It seems like he emailed Lloyds before about "MJ Estate / AEG fraud" which Lloyds ignored too.

Now you are going to ask what is the "MJ Estate / AEG Fraud". Mann believes the insurance money should have been directly paid to the beneficiaries and MJ Estate and AEG is in an active fraud to get the money to themselves. What Mann fails to realize is that it's Lloyds who filed that lawsuit not to pay anything to anyone. He also fails to understand that this was a cancellation policy that MJ Company was a party. It wasn't a personal insurance.

Mann mentions 4 additional sources but refuses to name them or provide any information based on journalistic privilege.

Oh and not surprisingly we learn that Randy Phillips and Roger Friedman had exchanged emails about Michael dating back to at least 2009. So KJ's lawyers claims that Phillips is the source of Friedman's articles how AEG will seek sanctions against the leaks. They also claim AEG gave the motion to Friedman before they were served. AEG counters this saying that Friedman got it after it was filed publicly. (Normally parties first file the motion with the clerks office and then serve it to the opposite side overnight. So any reporter can get the motion earlier if they get paper copies from the clerks office as they are filed)
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So you did Ivy, I remember now seeing it and meaning to go back to it later!
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

just a big mess.... if folks were this concerned about Michael as they are leaked emails, money and other crap he would be alive today.. Michael's family are concerned now with this lawsuit but they weren't concerned with MJ's health or safety when he was living?
 
Re: Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date delayed to April 2, 2013

Bonnie Blue said:
All this episode has done is tick aeg off even more, raised their costs in bringing this motion, and i'm sure they're going to be really determined to get the jacksons to pay their legal costs when the case is lost/thrown out.
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Well I think this is what waits us

- AEG will push for summary judgement and will try to get the case thrown out. They would definitely ask for legal expenses as well.

- If AEG cannot get all or parts thrown out then we might actually see a last minute settlement. It would all depend on if AEG wants this to be public and how strong is their and Jackson's evidence.

- If that doesn't happen then in April we will see a pretty cut throat lawsuit which won't be pretty for anyone involved.
 
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