KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Possible Appeal [closed]

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Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Yes, I would like to hear the judge's reasoning that it is acceptable that the jurors deliberated three days over negligent hiring only - not negligent supervision or negligent retention - without reviewing five months of evidence (plus time subtracted for watching TII).

There was about a month of "evidence", and four months of experts offering opinions, discussions and theories on someone they did not know (plus time subtracted for the warm and fuzzy videos of MJ's children to manipulate the heart strings)..IMO of course.
 
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Juror#27;3945467 said:
To whom it may concern:

I am aware that there are claims being made about my posts here immediately after the verdict where I said that we focused primarily on the time of hiring when considering how to answer question 2, and that these posts supposedly stand in contrast to my sworn affidavit where I said that we considered both the time of hiring and the period thereafter in reaching our verdict.

This is only a contradiction if one were to conveniently ignore my posts where I specifically stated that we ALSO considered the period after the hire of Conrad Murray in our deliberations.

Have you listened to the song Privacy with Michael Jackson?
He sings "stories are twisted and turned" ,"you tell the stories you choose"
It seems like it doesn´t help for some fans to have facts they twist,turn and ignore facts and choose to tell stories that suits them.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

you would presume the oral arguments was the same as the written arguments?. ill wait for the final ruling as nothing surprises me with the just us system
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Michael Jackson case: Judge tentatively rules against new trial
Friday, January 03, 2014
No new Jackson trial for now, judge says

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- A judge on Friday tentatively ruled against granting a new negligence trial to Michael Jackson's mother.

In October, a jury rejected Katherine Jackson's lawsuit claiming concert promoter AEG Live negligently hired Conrad Murray, the doctor who was convicted of involuntary manslaughter for giving her son an overdose of the anesthetic propofol in 2009.

The jury found that while AEG Live hired Murray, the doctor was competent to do the job he was hired to do. Jurors agreed with AEG Live that the concert promoter expected Murray to be a basic doctor, providing basic medical care for the pop star -- not secretly providing Jackson with propofol as an insomnia treatment.

Katherine Jackson's lawyers now say that the verdict form didn't allow jurors to consider all of the evidence in the negligence case. Lawyers for AEG Live countered that there was no basis for a new trial.

Superior Court Judge Yvette Palazuelos did not immediately finalize the ruling after hearing more than two hours of arguments from both sides on Friday.

AEG attorney Marvin Putnam said the motion for a new trial is "desperate" and "not that surprising."

About the question on the verdict form, AEG argues it was the Jackson attorneys who repeatedly requested the wording that they now say is faulty.

"What the jurors came back and said rather definitively is that they didn't prove their case. And they didn't prove their case because what they alleged to have occurred never occurred," said Putnam.

But the Jackson attorneys say some jurors were confused. They have affidavits from four of them who said they wanted to deliberate further on AEG's role.

"They were supervising Conrad Murray. The question was, were they doing so reasonably? That is what we're saying the jury never got a chance to decide," said Jackson attorney Kevin Boyle.

If Palazuelos stands by her ruling, the Jackson attorneys could file an appeal with a higher state court.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

What`s about the appeal on the dismissal of Paul Gongaware and Randy Phillips from the case.
Will there also be a decsion from this Jugde Yvette Palazuelos?
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

What`s about the appeal on the dismissal of Paul Gongaware and Randy Phillips from the case.
Will there also be a decsion from this Jugde Yvette Palazuelos?

appeals got nothing to do with Judge Palazuelos
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Chang says there will never be a case like this. Of course not, but not for the reasons Chang gives. If they focused on presenting facts that related to the key questions on the form then they could have presented this case in 1 month. Because they had no facts to back up key questions they rambled on spending most of the time on e-mails & lost. Serves them right. Not to mention both sides with their duplication of experts to conclude 1 thing. It was a waste of taxpayers money, and now with more appeals, more money will be wasted. Here Panish wants a retrial and does not even present facts on the specific legal issues that will cause the judge to grant a retrial. He focuses rather on juror feelings and dissatisfaction and complaints about a form that he helped orchestrate.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

So now it seems they are saying the entire form the jury was given to guide their deliberations should not have been given. How come that brilliant idea didn't occur to them before the jury was given that list of questions?

Obviously, the jury needed some way to handle the 'strange and complicated' case and I don't see how they should have been left to work out the questions for themselves.

IMO this was the giant flaw in the case from the beginning--that the various points being claimed were not sufficiently clear from the start. But it would seem the burden was on the plaintiffs to present a case, and they certainly had plenty of time to do so. If they were presenting something 'strange and complicated' then that was their responsibility to make it clear to the jury what their case was trying to prove in a logical fashion with evidence. Instead of which, they were trying to say MJ was at death's door one minute, people testifying he needed to go to the hospital etc, and then that he would have gone on massive tours until age 70 earning billions of $$. If that is not a huge problem that they never resolved, I don't know what is.

If the jury was confused, maybe they were the ones confusing them? IMO the defense put up a much better and more coherent line of reasoning, even though it meant they depicted MJ as seeking and using propofol for years before.

I hope the plaintiffs eventually face the fact that they did not prove that AEG negligently hired, retained, or supervised CM, or knew or should have known what CM was doing to MJ. Even if they were to get another opportunity for a trial, IMO they do not have enough evidence to convince a new jury of that.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Murray is responsible for Michael's death. No matter what the Jacksons say or AEG say Murray is responsible. Michael kept things to himself and only he and Murray knew about the propofol. Michael was an adult and no matter how many times people would ask him if he is okay he would probably say okay each time. Everyone seems to point the finger at each other for not helping Michael. But Michael didn't want their help. He wanted to take care of things himself and that was with Murray.

I love Michael and not blaming him. I wish he didn't pick Murray to help him but he did. I don't want people to forget what Murray did. The Jacksons are more mad at AEG than Murray. People should be more mad at Murray yet it seems it's being forgotten. They all say the could see something was wrong but Michael kept saying he was fine. Do you think Michael would have told his family or AEG about the propofol and what was going on with Murray? I don't think so. Murray should have told Michael no. He should have been a real doctor to him. He made Michael sick. Michael was healthy man and Murray made him sick and he killed him.

Did AEG treat Michael well? I don't think so but business companies like them are worried about making profits. I am not saying they wanted something bad to happen to Michael. They probably didn't think they had to watch or babysit Michael who was 50 years old. Did the Jacksons treat Michael well? Well we all have our opinions on that. They all failed Michael one way or another but for me the blame will always be with Murray. Just let Michael rest in peace already.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Jamba I agree with you ^^. Another major flaw in the strange & complicated case, was that after the judge threw out the other allegations, the plaintiffs never reviewed their strategy and threw out all the material that had nothing to do with the one remaining allegation. They began by putting in all kinds of allegations to see what would stick, and ending by trying all kinds of theories & nothing stuck. It is their lack of clarity & structure that caused confusion for 2 jurors.

I think this case should be studied in law school to show errors & how to avoid them.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

To whom it may concern:

I am aware that there are claims being made about my posts here immediately after the verdict where I said that we focused primarily on the time of hiring when considering how to answer question 2, and that these posts supposedly stand in contrast to my sworn affidavit where I said that we considered both the time of hiring and the period thereafter in reaching our verdict.

There goes that person's whole argument on that blog, which was based on the assumption that Juror#27 was the one juror who did not sign an affidavit.

"They were supervising Conrad Murray. The question was, were they doing so reasonably? That is what we're saying the jury never got a chance to decide," said Jackson attorney Kevin Boyle.

I seriously don't get what supervision they are talking about. Is it the info that AEG told Murray to get MJ to rehearsal? If so, the judge already said this was not against the law and they were not responsible for Murray's actions. Is there any other supervision they are talking about? Sorry, but negligent supervision was not going to go in Jacksons favor either.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

There goes that person's whole argument on that blog, which was based on the assumption that Juror#27 was the one juror who did not sign an affidavit.

Good point. This is where it not a good idea to create facts out of assumptions, picking and choosing what's on the table and hammering it into a big 'eureka!' discovery on the basis of nothing at all. btw, that blog has been sending info to plaintiff lawyers so maybe that's where their case got all messed up and 'confused.'
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Good point. This is where it not a good idea to create facts out of assumptions, picking and choosing what's on the table and hammering it into a big 'eureka!' discovery on the basis of nothing at all. btw, that blog has been sending info to plaintiff lawyers so maybe that's where their case got all messed up and 'confused.'

Ha the bolded cracked me up. Anyway any lawyer getting information is supposed to go check it out first before using it. Lawyers get information all the time. Even TMez said he got some messages on his answering machine in the office. Hopefully Panish researched the information he got from helpful fans. I really don't think that the firm was a good choice in handling a case like that.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Ha the bolded cracked me up. Anyway any lawyer getting information is supposed to go check it out first before using it. Lawyers get information all the time. Even TMez said he got some messages on his answering machine in the office. Hopefully Panish researched the information he got from helpful fans. I really don't think that the firm was a good choice in handling a case like that.

:) Glad you appreciated the humor there. Seriously, though, maybe that was a factor in the idea for the claim the jury was confused--when actually it was that blog, which has been harping on the "there's an AEG plant on the jury--oh, my!" so long it somehow seemed plausible to Chang--enough so she had a dream or nightmare that she actually communicated to jurors. You can't make this stuff up.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

There was about a month of "evidence", and four months of experts offering opinions, discussions and theories on someone they did not know (plus time subtracted for the warm and fuzzy videos of MJ's children to manipulate the heart strings)..IMO of course.

Gerryevans, of course. However, nothing you mentioned was reviewed or deliberated on, including the videos.

Below is only a list of what the plaintiffs submitted into evidence. It does not include what the defense submitted. No matter, it mostly all ignored.

http://www.psblaw.com/michael-jackson-trial-exhibits.html

But if someone disagrees with her decision doesn't mean she is corrupt.

???
 
Posted: Saturday, January 4, 2014 2:00 pm
By Wave Wire Services | 0 comments


A judge tentatively denied a motion by Katherine Jackson’s attorneys for a new trial of her lawsuit against concert-promoter AEG Live stemming from the 2009 death of her pop superstar son, Michael Jackson, then heard arguments from attorneys Friday before taking the case under submission.

Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Yvette Palazuelos sent attorneys a 45-page tentative ruling denying the motion by lawyers for the Jackson family matriarch Thursday night, in advance of Friday’s hearing on the issue.

Details of the judge’s ruling were not immediately available.

Palazuelos said she put some of the final touches on her tentative ruling on Wednesday while at the Rose Bowl watching Stanford University — of which she is an alum — lose to Michigan State.

In their court papers, Katherine Jackson's attorneys cited affidavits from jurors and claimed flaws in jury instructions and in the verdict form establish that a different outcome might have occurred Oct. 2 instead of the verdict in favor of the promoters of the singer’s never-realized comeback concerts in London.

“Even if you wanted to find for the plaintiff you really could not,” plaintiffs’ attorney Deborah Chang told Palazuelos during the court hearing.
Chang frequently referred to charts prepared for the hearing as she made her pitch to Palazuelos, saying the lawsuit and trial were unique.
“There will never be another case like this again ... because there will never be another person like Michael Jackson,” Chang said.
Chang said the lawsuit “should have been a negligence case” rather than one that dealt with whether AEG Live appropriately hired, retained and supervised Dr. Conrad Murray as Michael Jackson’s personal physician.
Noting that the arguments during trial were often contentious, Chang called the trial “a fight to the bitter end.”


AEG Live attorneys contended in their court papers that Katherine Jackson’s lawyers are raising new issues and that the juror affidavits filed in support of their motion are inadmissible.

“After failing to prove their case during five months of trial, plaintiffs’ now attack the jury’s unanimous verdict and this court’s rulings,” AEG Live lawyers state in their court papers. “While plaintiffs’ notice of intent to move for new trial raised every single possible statutory ground available under the Code of Civil Procedure ..., plaintiffs now abandon all [their] arguments except irregularity in the proceedings and error in law.”
After nearly 14 hours of deliberations over four days, the six-man, six-woman jury determined that AEG Live did hire Murray as Jackson’s doctor, but it answered “no” to question No. 2, which asked if Murray was “unfit or incompetent to perform the work for which he was hired.”
With that answer, the jury denied any damages to Katherine Jackson and to Michael Jackson’s three children.
Murray, who was convicted of involuntary manslaughter for Jackson’s death, has since been released from jail. Jackson died June 25, 2009, at age 50 of acute propofol intoxication.
In documents filed earlier this month, the Jackson lawyers claimed that once the jurors found Murray was competent at the time he was hired, the panel could not go any further and examine his subsequent conduct.
“As given, these instructions and the verdict form were misleading and erroneous in that they did not distinguish between a negligent hiring claim and a negligent retention or supervision claim [what the employer knew or should have known during the course of the relationship],'' the Jackson attorneys’ stated in their court papers.
By forcing the jury to stop deliberating after they concluded Murray’s capabilities were up to par when he was hired, the form never allowed the jurors to consider AEG Live’s separate ongoing duties relating to supervision and retention, the Jackson attorneys’ court papers state.
Four trial jurors gave affidavits that Katherine Jackson’s lawyers are citing in support of the new trial motion.
“After sitting through almost six months of the trial in this case, I believed that Mrs. Jackson had proven her case against AEG Live,” one juror said. “Despite this fact, I had no way of voting in favor of the plaintiffs because of the way that the verdict form was worded.”
But according to the AEG Live attorneys’ court papers, Katherine Jackson's attorneys did not argue during trial that question No. 2 was improper.
"Remarkably, plaintiffs’ challenge is based on a question and instruction that plaintiffs specifically requested,” the AEG Live lawyers state in their court papers. "Contrary to the demonstrably false claims in their brief, plaintiffs never objected to question No. 2, never sought to modify it and never claimed that it could somehow result in juror confusion.”
AEG Live attorneys state in their court papers that Katherine Jackson’s lawyers are trying to “muddy the waters” with the four jurors’ sworn statements.
The state’s Evidence Code “flatly forbids [a judge] from considering juror affidavits that concern the mental processes by which the verdict was determined,” the defense attorneys state in their court papers. “Indeed, the court’s consideration of these affidavits would constitute reversible error.”
The defense lawyers further state in their court documents that even if the juror statements were deemed admissible, the plaintiffs’ attorneys have still not shown that their clients probably would have won the case if the questions on the verdict form were different.
Murray was “fit and competent” to take care of Michael Jackson’s general medical needs and had been doing so for the singer and his family, as well as other patients, for years, the AEG Live lawyers state in their court papers.
“There is simply no reason to believe the jury interpreted the verdict form at odds with its plain language and the arguments of the parties,” according to the AEG Live lawyers’ court papers.
Katherine Jackson, 83, sued in September 2010 on behalf of herself and her son’s three children — Michael Jr., Paris-Michael Katherine and Prince Michael — claiming that AEG Live hired Murray to be Jackson’s personal physician and failed to properly supervise him.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

So now it seems they are saying the entire form the jury was given to guide their deliberations should not have been given. How come that brilliant idea didn't occur to them before the jury was given that list of questions?

Obviously, the jury needed some way to handle the 'strange and complicated' case and I don't see how they should have been left to work out the questions for themselves.

IMO this was the giant flaw in the case from the beginning--that the various points being claimed were not sufficiently clear from the start. But it would seem the burden was on the plaintiffs to present a case, and they certainly had plenty of time to do so. If they were presenting something 'strange and complicated' then that was their responsibility to make it clear to the jury what their case was trying to prove in a logical fashion with evidence. Instead of which, they were trying to say MJ was at death's door one minute, people testifying he needed to go to the hospital etc, and then that he would have gone on massive tours until age 70 earning billions of $$. If that is not a huge problem that they never resolved, I don't know what is.

If the jury was confused, maybe they were the ones confusing them? IMO the defense put up a much better and more coherent line of reasoning, even though it meant they depicted MJ as seeking and using propofol for years before.

I hope the plaintiffs eventually face the fact that they did not prove that AEG negligently hired, retained, or supervised CM, or knew or should have known what CM was doing to MJ. Even if they were to get another opportunity for a trial, IMO they do not have enough evidence to convince a new jury of that.

I agree with majority of your points. I believe Jacksons case had too many elements, was too long and focused on many irrelevant stuff. It almost felt like they tried to show 100 things in the hopes that one would stick. I felt AEG was more organized, more focused and more streamlined in their defense.

For example think about this : It was Jacksons human resources expert that argued that Murray's debts made him unfit/incompetent. She said after running his credit, she would stop doing any further research and not even consider him for employment. It was Panish who played AEG tour expert (that looked like AEG would not call) who said the money Murray asked (the initial $5 Million) was red flag. So it was Jackson lawyer who introduced the idea that Murray was unfit and incompetent from the start / at the time of hiring. Now suddenly supervision focus comes - something that I don't believe they focused on trial - saying he was unfit for the additional duties assigned which was "getting MJ to rehearsals" which somehow equaled to giving Propofol to a deteriorating insomniac.

Defense was a lot more focused reasoning which was simply " we didn't hire him, MJ asked for him, we did a basic check and Murray looked fine. We didn't know what he was doing we only found out after MJ died and it looks like Propofol was in MJ's life for a while so it got nothing to do with us, his choice".

I don't get what makes this case unique than the rest of negligent hiring/retention/supervision cases but if you look to the last article I posted apparently Chang said "because it is MJ and there's only one MJ".

And given their focus on "it should have been negligence" I'm thinking they realizing they don't have a chance to prove the elements of negligent hiring/retention/supervision so they are going with general negligence. I'm guessing that would be their focus on the appeal.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

They all say the could see something was wrong but Michael kept saying he was fine. Do you think Michael would have told his family or AEG about the propofol and what was going on with Murray? I don't think so.
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the family imo are a bunch of liars in claiming they knew something was wrong. other than the "wedding anniversary" do they had nothing to do with him other than harrassing him to take part in the all good show.threatening lawsuits if he didnt and selling nasty articles to the likes of the mail. and tito going on about hoping mj invites his bros to perform on stage with him at the 02.does that sound like a family who knew something was wrong and tried to help. you had kj saying mj was great last time he saw them. others like the cascios knew about his insomnia but not one of the contributing factors ie his family.maybe if they had been a decent family to him he would have been able to talk to them.talk about 93 and the early 00's medication issues.instead he delt with it himself ie rehab and the implant.and rather than tell his family about it.he kept it to himself probably cause he knew it would end up of the front page of the national enquirer or would be used to blackmail him into a reunion tour or a shady biz deal in the future. but of course the family will never admit that as according to them even though mj DID deal with his issues privately according to them his was in denial and needed an intervention!!

its sickening how they try and act like this "tight nit" family inorder to try and win the big money and in the process have no problem crapping on mj
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

the judge imo can be blamed for that.her biast against mj in thinking he was a typical druggie led to totally irrelevent info being brought in.we saw how she lost total control of the court room

Jamba I agree with you ^^. Another major flaw in the strange & complicated case, was that after the judge threw out the other allegations, the plaintiffs never reviewed their strategy and threw out all the material that had nothing to do with the one remaining allegation. They began by putting in all kinds of allegations to see what would stick, and ending by trying all kinds of theories & nothing stuck. It is their lack of clarity & structure that caused confusion for 2 jurors.

I think this case should be studied in law school to show errors & how to avoid them.
 
*Palazuelos said she put some of the final touches on her tentative ruling on Wednesday while at the Rose Bowl watching Stanford University — of which she is an alum — lose to Michigan State.*
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that sums it all up
 
elusive moonwalker;3946459 said:
*Palazuelos said she put some of the final touches on her tentative ruling on Wednesday while at the Rose Bowl watching Stanford University — of which she is an alum — lose to Michigan State.*
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that sums it all up

Exactly. That woman looked at the documents before the oral arguments and made a tentative ruling. She still had the same ruling in her head after the arguments. She simply went to the game and wrote in a few more explanations, but the gist of her ruling will be the same.

Okay so with this last article ^^ we find out that the plaintiffs went to court for 5 months for a case they initiated, and now realize it should be tried as a different type of case. I wish I had a smilie with the eyes spinning around counter-clockwise!!
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

And given their focus on "it should have been negligence" I'm thinking they realizing they don't have a chance to prove the elements of negligent hiring/retention/supervision so they are going with general negligence. I'm guessing that would be their focus on the appeal.

But wouldn't that make it a whole new different trial? It's like they are admitting they have no chance at negligent hiring, so they wanna try something else. They are the only ones making the whole thing confusing. They threw all kinds of crap during the trial, hoping some of it will stick and now they are doing the same thing. It's obvious they don't have a clear argument - first they claim the jurors didn't deliberate on supervision, next they say supervision shouldn't have been considered at all and it should've been general negligence. Whatever.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

But wouldn't that make it a whole new different trial? It's like they are admitting they have no chance at negligent hiring, so they wanna try something else. They are the only ones making the whole thing confusing. They threw all kinds of crap during the trial, hoping some of it will stick and now they are doing the same thing. It's obvious they don't have a clear argument - first they claim the jurors didn't deliberate on supervision, next they say supervision shouldn't have been considered at all and it should've been general negligence. Whatever.

It's more like same facts but different approach. They tried to add simple negligence based on the contract between MJ and AEG mid trial. It was like arguing AEG due to their contract with Michael had a duty to save him by postponing the tour and such.That way they would not need to prove Murray was unfit and incompetent and AEG knew or should have known. Court decided the only duty AEG had was towards the parties they hired hence negligent hiring, retention, supervision.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

It's more like same facts but different approach. They tried to add simple negligence based on the contract between MJ and AEG mid trial. It was like arguing AEG due to their contract with Michael had a duty to save him by postponing the tour and such.That way they would not need to prove Murray was unfit and incompetent and AEG knew or should have known. Court decided the only duty AEG had was towards the parties they hired hence negligent hiring, retention, supervision.

Since when it is your workplace's job to save you and make sure you are healthy? I would tell my boss where to go if they attempted to get all up in my business, especially my medical concern. The Jacksons are acting like AEG should have been Michael's sitter. If that was the case, the Jacksons should sue themselves.

He was their son, brother, and uncle. They should have known something was wrong and stop the tour themselves. So much pot calling the kettle here. Also, just because it is Michael Jackson does not automatically make something so weird and twisted that you have to judge him by a different standard.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

^^

There's not really a duty to rescue in US except to stop and render aid in a traffic accident (also some special relationships and emergency personnel has a duty to rescue). There are some Good Samaritan/ Duty to Rescue laws in very few states which is basically limits the required duty to calling the cops to ask for help. In other words for example when you see a guy punching another guy legally you aren't required to step in to stop the fight, at most you are expected to call the police. Obviously you can see the examples require you to see a crime happening.

So as there's not really a duty to rescue, Jacksons relied on the contract between AEG and MJ and argued that contract brought some duties to AEG which included duties to save Michael. They relied on 8.1 of AEG- MJ contract which said "manage the production in accordance with mutually approved parameters and mutually approved production budget and engage services of third party vendors to assist in the production of the show". Judge ruled that this duty is actually the duty to hire/supervise and retain contractors which is the exact claim in the lawsuit.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

^^

There's not really a duty to rescue in US except to stop and render aid in a traffic accident (also some special relationships and emergency personnel has a duty to rescue). There are some Good Samaritan/ Duty to Rescue laws in very few states which is basically limits the required duty to calling the cops to ask for help. In other words for example when you see a guy punching another guy legally you aren't required to step in to stop the fight, at most you are expected to call the police. Obviously you can see the examples require you to see a crime happening.

So as there's not really a duty to rescue, Jacksons relied on the contract between AEG and MJ and argued that contract brought some duties to AEG which included duties to save Michael. They relied on 8.1 of AEG- MJ contract which said "manage the production in accordance with mutually approved parameters and mutually approved production budget and engage services of third party vendors to assist in the production of the show". Judge ruled that this duty is actually the duty to hire/supervise and retain contractors which is the exact claim in the lawsuit.

That is a lot of legal twisting. I am no lawyer and my knowledge on such things are extremely limited, but I cannot see fault in AEG not knowing about Michael's medical care. I am also glad I am not the only one who noticed that the Jacksons were talking about of both sides of their mouths about AEG being too involve when it came to hiring and firing and then saying they were not involve enough by not firing Murray when they noticed something was wrong with Michael. Not to mention him being a known addict, but he would somehow be healthy enough to tour until his 70s. Really, did anything of the Jacksons' team sat down and looked through their arguments?

Anyway, unless the Jackson's side show evidence that AEG known about the nature of the care Murray was given Michael every night, I cannot see how any reasonable person can conclude that they should have been involve. In actuality, it was none of their business and in the US, people get upset when a third party tries to get involve between them in their doctor. That is how a lot of the hate for Obamacare started.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

This is what I wrote when the poll was started while the jury was deciding a verdict:

"Question No. 1
Did AEG Live hire Murray?
If you answered Yes then answer question 2. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.
Question No. 2
Was Murray unfit or incompetent to perform the work for which he was hired?

The problem with these questions is there is no time frame--no "when."

Is the date June 25th, 2009? If so, then that frames the answers. If it was May 1st, 2009, that's another question. My question is WHEN did Murray become incompetent? When was he hired, if he was in fact hired.

What I see is that there was a process of hiring him, but was it complete by June 25th, or was it still in process? I know that verbal negotions and conduct have a role, but were the verbal negotiations complete by June 25th? If I want to hire someone for a job and I negotiate about what, where, when, how much, when is the person hired? When I start negotiations or when all parts of the negotiation are complete? I would say the latter b/c otherwise just talking to a person--say, getting an estimate--could be construed as a hiring.

When was Murray incompetent? From Day One or on June 25th?

These questions are deceptively simple and really not clear enough to guide the jurors IMO."


In a way, this is kind of what the plaintiffs are now arguing. BUT it seems that the question of when was addressed in closing arguments by Panish, who clearly told the jurors that the question of unfit or incompetent was for the entire period of the hiring or employment (if they decided that there was a hiring). So I think on that basis alone, that the judge allowed the plaintiffs to expressly instruct the jurors on the meaning of the questions and the timelines of the questions in the closing arguments, she wiould deny their request for a new trial. So the only question remaining is--was there any juror misconduct and so far it would seem there was not--that if the jurors didn't understand the questions, they could have asked and that they were told earlier what the time frame was in no uncertain terms by Panish himself!

The plaintiffs' case had so many holes in it that they had a huge threshold to get over before they got to damages. Even if they got the incompetent ruling in their favor, they still had other hurdles--should AEG have known? Was AEG's negligence in hiring, retention, supervision a 'substantial factor' in the harm done to MJ and the plaintiffs? AEG argued that even if they had fired CM, MJ could have continued to keep him as his personal doctor. Then you have the question of how fit MJ was to do the tour and how much income he would have generated, etc. I mean the case was a leaking ship from Day One.
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Okay so with this last article ^^ we find out that the plaintiffs went to court for 5 months for a case they initiated, and now realize it should be tried as a different type of case. I wish I had a smilie with the eyes spinning around counter-clockwise!!

Got a laugh out of that one, Petra! :) I feel the same way. And we still have the appeal process ahead of us!
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Maybe by this week the final ruling will be out? She has up to the 13th, but it is ready.

Ivy maybe you should leave the tentative one and just get the final ruling--unless you want to compare both documents and see what is different?
 
Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

edit smiley did not show. never mind.
 
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