KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Possible Appeal [closed]

[ivy]

It’s because regardless of opinion, MJJC is a very active board and has some of the most articulate members of any community, be it about MJ or any subject matter.

I totally agree with this. Just our AEG trial section that we had during the trial /6 month period had close to 20,000 posts and 1 Million views. So yeah as far as English based fan clubs goes MJJC is the most active board and has a lot of interesting discussions. MJJC is also still one of the places that maintains an active discussion about what is happening after the trial. As far as I can see (on twitter at least) even the fans who have been highly pro jackson and supportive during the trial have pretty much moved on after the verdict. So I would imagine that if someone still wants to discuss this, MJJC might be place for it.

MJJC also provides substantive information, documentation and facts that can’t be found anywhere else regarding the gifted one.

I agree in general and as far as AEG trial goes yes I had substantive and only to be found here information before and after the trial - such as as far as fans goes I was the only one to report on the new trial request with documents provided. I'll give credit when it's due - during the trial there were other fan sources for trial reporting so that wasn't exclusive to MJJC.

Additionally, it has you, who provides and puts legalese and other sometimes confusing as heck information into concise comprehensible language.

I'll agree with this as well but only to why a person might come to MJJC in general. Not when you have a pro-jackson person who thinks/accuses me of "spin to benefit defense". If that's the case you would actually expect them to be not interested in any information I provide and stick with other sources that they agree with. For example generally speaking - not limited to AEG trial - there are fans out there that I believe to be extremely smart, capable and knowledgeable but also have extreme bias in some topics. Do I use them as an information source? No, not when I believe their bias is clouding their judgment. Similarly if anyone believes that I have an extreme bias in any regard, I would not expect them to use me as a source - especially if there are alternatives.

MJ has been gone nearly five years (which is still hard to even accept for this fan), but there is no board comparable for a diehard Michael Jackson fan, which should never be confused with being a Katherine, Janet, Jermaine, or any other named Jackson fan. That’s a distinction that should NEVER be forgotten.

Not only that but there are also different fan groups with different beliefs in regards to almost any and all topics about MJ and hence the division and separate groups / blogs/sites for the fans. That's why I said there's a lot of choices out there. For a Jackson fan there's Jacksonsource, if you feel strongly about Cascio songs there's ATU, if you think AEG is horrible there's a blog for that and yes there's even not one but two Team Katherine Jackson groups.

So when added together with the claim that the majority outside MJJC agrees with a person, why would that person come to a minority group of people that disagrees with them? I mean for example I don't believe in death hoax and you will never ever see me as a member on a hoax forum arguing with the hoax believers that hoax isn't real. Because such behavior would be really unproductive IMO. Unless of course there's a intent of going there to create a discord I guess. I don't want to make assumptions and that's why I'm genuinely interested in why.

Just think, it was our board which Juror#27 graced with insights and knowledge about the civil trial.

Absolutely and I'm so glad that he gave us all the insights that he did. I'm sure that he didn't foresee that people would blog or make videos about his statements and twist what he said.

And don’t forget the distinguished Dr. Steven Shafer professor of anesthesiology at Stanford and Columbia universities. What an honor to our forum he gave us.

I'm quite proud about Q&A with Walgren too That being said I had no plans to do any Q&A's in regards to AEG civil trial. So Juror#27 was a nice and priceless surprise.

 

[krikzil]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

I've never understood the "spin to benefit defense" thingy anyway. How pray tell would that even work? No forum member was sitting on that jury and it's only their opinions that actually mattered. We are just a group of individuals on a forum that are discussing, debating and sharing opinions on a trial.


I just reviewed the poll here -- hmm, a difference of 79 vs 85 voting for KJ and AEG? The way some carry on about it, you'd think it was a landslide for AEG.

 

[serendipity]

Serendipity, I will repeat: the plaintiffs always maintained Michael had issues and that they were known. AEG stated Michael was secretive and yes they did reveal the more “media-worthy” and “dirty” tidbits such as the narcan implants, Michael’s private conversations with doctors and other medical professionals, and passing out in front of his children at Disneyland (without context) to name a few.

And it all happened because the Jacksons filed the lawsuit in the first place! My whole point!

 

[Soundmind]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

@ Taygger , the most damaging testimony came from Randy Jackson. Every medical professional who took the stand clarified his/ her experience with MJ, except Randy Jackson's wild stories of nine intervention.No one impeached him on his lies because the ones who were most affected by it , the plaintiffs, could not attack his credibilty as he was their client; the one who hired them in the first place.

Why you keep blaming AEG for being smart but the Jacksons always get a pass for being dumb?

What was more damaging than a brother saying under oath MJ did not have sleep issues? that he liked to tour ? that he was in denial, he took advantage of his employees and got drugs in their names, he abandoned his family for the sake of drugs, he refused to grant them access because he knew they would try to stop him from getting his fix , that his family tried 9 interventions but failed ? That he faked the hospital visit to get out of court ? That he used to sweettalk to katherine , to fool her into believing his lies .
Everyone else who took the stand gave Mj credit for trying to get help, they explained his desperation , his pains ....etc. except Randy. The Michael Jackson described by Randy was a manipulative drug addict liar
who lied about insomina, lied about back pain, lied about pretty much everything .

Why any of that was AEG's fault? Did any of AEG people provide anything remotely as damaging as Randy's testimony to Mj's character ?

I don't believe you feel Randy did anything wrong nor does those katherine's supporters.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

@ tygger

Why did not Radny take the stand during the trial ? Why did he choose to rant on twitter when it was made public what he claimed in his affidavit ?


Why Rebbie did not testify to help get AEG down ?

Why when Randy had the chance to confont the criminal executors of Mj's estate , who don't represent his manipulative , junkie brother 's best interests , during the fiasco with the starting up company from the Middle East he disaapeared ? Why he did not show up when he was subpoenaed to inform the court of his business acumen ?

 

[serendipity]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

@ Taygger , the most damaging testimony came from Randy Jackson. Every medical prfessional who took the stand clarified his/ her experience with MJ, except Randy Jackson's wild stories of nine intervention.No one impeached him on his lies because the ones who were most affected by it , the plaintiffs, could not attack his credibilty as he was their client; the one who hired them in the first place.

Why you keep blaming AEG for being smart but the Jacksons always get a pass for being dumb?

What was more damaging than a brother saying under oath MJ did not have sleep issues? that he liked to tour ? that he was in denial, he took advantage of his employees and got drugs in their names, he abandoned his family for the sake of drugs, he refused to grant them access because he knew they would try to stop him from getting his fix , that his family tried 9 interventions but failed ? That he faked the hospital visit to get out of court ? That he used to sweettalk to katherine , to fool her into believing his lies .
Everyone else who took the stand gave Mj credit for trying to get help, they explained his desperation , his pains ....etc. except Randy. The Michael Jackson described by Randy was a manipulative drug addict liar
who lied about insomina, lied about back pain, lied about pretty much everything .

Why any of that was AEG's fault? Did any of AEG people provide anything remotely as damaging as Randy's testimony to Mj's character ?

I don't believe you feel Randy did anything wrong nor does those katherine's supporters.

You bet! What's even more ironic is that Randy basically supported the "secretive addict" theory that Tygger is decrying so much, which is why he was an AEG witness.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Ivy ^^I thought Walgren was not able to complete the QA. Did he get the time and finish it?

I agree that Juror 27 was a great bonus, since we are not having a Q&A. Maybe when the appeal process finally ends, if we are still alive, you can do a Q&A with one of the winners?

 

[ivy]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

I've never understood the "spin to benefit defense" thingy anyway. How pray tell would that even work? No forum member was sitting on that jury and it's only their opinions that actually mattered. We are just a group of individuals on a forum that are discussing, debating and sharing opinions on a trial.

you wouldn't believe how many times I said trials are tried and won/lost in a court of law by lawyers and the only ones making the decisions are judge and jurors. I guess some want to feel like they can make a difference in seeking truth and justice and if that's the belief probably they feel others can do a difference as well. Reality is that we are just a bunch of people discussing on a forum and had to effect on the trial & verdict.

The second thing I guess is the idea of manipulating /brainwashing people. We get accused of it sometimes and I think it is offensive not for us but for the other fans as the claim is that they are easily manipulated. I also keep thinking if it is that easy to manipulate people why can't the other people do it too for their benefit/causes? It doesn't make sense

I just reviewed the poll here -- hmm, a difference of 79 vs 85 voting for KJ and AEG? The way some carry on about it, you'd think it was a landslide for AEG.

if we are talking about what I think we are talking about (LOL) I think the complaint was another media (CNN or HLN I think) poll was in favor of Jackson family while ours was a more even split. However for example if they looked to TMZ they would see that across two polls TMZ readers 79% -81% agreed with the verdict.

edited to add: oh I made an interesting find. I was trying to find this poll and I went to HLN. There was a poll posted on September 24 that asked "Is AEG responsible for MJ's death?". Result is 71% saying yes. (http://www.hlntv.com/poll/2013/09/24/aeg-responsible-michael-jacksons-death/results) They post another poll on September 25th asking "Should MJ's kids get 2 billion from AEG?" and 65% says no (http://www.hlntv.com/poll/2013/09/25/should-mjs-kids-get-2-billion-aeg/results). then - this is interesting - after the verdict (October 2) they have another poll asking "Did the jury get it right?" and the answer is 78% Yes (http://www.hlntv.com/poll/2013/10/02/did-jury-mj-wrongful-death-trial-get-it-right/results)

So the HLN poll has changed for 71% in favor of Jacksons to 78% in favor of AEG in week. This is a very good example that why none of those "vote now" polls that allow multiple voting is not a reliable and valid source of information of what "majority" thinks.

And funnily it turns out our poll was more favorable for Jackson family than the TMZ and HLN after verdict polls.

 

[Tygger]

Ivy, your responses are classic! You responded with more accusations and attempted to besmirch a character you do not know but, believe you do only because you read my posts and did not agree with my views! As always, you express your grievances with my posts publicly in every thread you can create the opportunity. You have increased the “phantom deeds” list and I want my “receipts.” Surely you should be able to produce at least ONE????

Like smacking your head against a brick wall until you get a concussion.

In my view, it is more of a lost opportunity than frustrating. I would have loved to have had more discussion where learning, not agreement and not sport, was the goal. To have that goal of shared learning, all participants have to be willing.

I find the below comment disappointing. I do understand that is how some believe however, learning is not about choosing sides.

I already said my piece and I believe that everyone already knows what everyone posted here and decide who to agree with.

I did have some discussions and did learn law concepts. However I did not share the majority view, which happens in life and that, was considered an offense for some which spawned an endless activity of constant one-upmanship whenever those posters read a post authored by Tygger. Much effort was taken to characterize and/or prove anything and everything I posted as “wrong.” It is an activity that did not end with the civil trial and spanned to other threads I posted in outside of this subforum. So much for “moving on” or accepting opposite views.

Krizkil, any information regarding the defense conceding to question four because of “knowledge gleaned from a criminal trial?”

LastTear, I never said I was surprised. No worries; I understand the irony of that concession and I am fine with that. Regarding question two: I will simply wait to see what the appellate court will say regarding the pending appeals.

Serendipity, there are those who have put all accountability solely on the Jacksons for any and all of AEG’s reactions during the civil trial. I never subscribed to that theory and I never will. Please post the sections of Randy's testimony where he supported the “secretive addict” theory. I did not read anything of the sort.

Soundmind, I supported the plaintiffs in the civil trial. That is not the same as knowing Randy Jackson so I cannot answer your questions regarding Randy’s thoughts and actions. The defense used his deposition. It is your view he had damaging testimony. You do not know what I believe except for what I post I believe here.

 

[Soundmind]

My view ? Could you enlighten us on the positive side of his testimony ? What could be the impression an average person would have of mj based on what Randy voluntarily claimed?

You can read everyone thoughts and actions except the Jacsons , how convenient !
Again why we should held AEG accountable for questioning the witnesses on their
experince with MJ, why AEG shoud not have talked about the naracan implant while the jacksons had the right to say he did not suufer from insomnia, he got prescriptions in his employees names , he lied about back pain, he used to fool hs mom.....etc ?

 

[Bubs]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts Aug 9
AEG claims Randy doesn't want to come testify in person; Jacksons say AEG doesn't want him to come in person. What do you think is true?

Imo, Randy's own tweets shows that he didn't want to testify, because he would be cross examined, and Randy couldn't handle it. He can talk shite to the media and demand this and that, but if he is confronted, he hides.

ABC& tweeted this:
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts Aug 9
Back in session...
2:37 PM - 9 Aug 2013

Randy took twitter when it was safe and proceedings have been going on for 2 hours.
Randy Jackson ?@randyjackson8 Aug 9
There is no reason to play my deposition on video. I am ready and willing to testify.
4:44 PM - 9 Aug 2013

 

[jaydom7]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Randy knew his deposition was very damaging to his case, that's why he went on a twitter rant. Randy did more damage to MJ than anyone else in that trial. And once again if he felt MJ was such a mess why didn't he help him? he claimed he was running through MJ's house throwing out pill bottles but not once did he mention getting any names of the doctors on those bottles so that he could investigate what was going on with his brother. Get the doctor's names and ask them what is going on with his brother because he was concerned. Randy didn't know any doctors names, any ailments MJ had or anything. I can one do an intervention when they don't know what the problem is?

 

[ivy]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts Aug 9
AEG claims Randy doesn't want to come testify in person; Jacksons say AEG doesn't want him to come in person. What do you think is true?

One thing about this part "Jacksons say AEG doesn't want him to come in person" doesn't makes sense. What AEG wants or doesn't want is irrelevant. Jackson lawyers could have called Randy to the stand if they wanted. Remember Metzger for example. How AEG wanted to play his deposition but Jackson lawyers wanted him on stand?

 

[jaydom7]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

I still don't understand what Randy was trying to accomplish.. Randy and the family claimed that everyone knew including AEG of MJ's issues, yet Katherine claimed she didn't know or see a thing. Randy did all of these alleged interventions so maybe when MJ announced these shows he should've went to AEG and informed them that his brother needs help.. why didn't he do that?

 

[Bubs]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

One thing about this part "Jacksons say AEG doesn't want him to come in person" doesn't makes sense. What AEG wants or doesn't want is irrelevant. Jackson lawyers could have called Randy to the stand if they wanted. Remember Metzger for example. How AEG wanted to play his deposition but Jackson lawyers wanted him on stand?

Right!
Randy went on twitter to do damage control as his deposition was taken previous year and he might have regretted "few" things he said, or realised that what he said "then" does not support plaintiffs case. In fact, his deposition practically helped to sunk their case.

I still don't understand what Randy was trying to accomplish.. Randy and the family claimed that everyone knew including AEG of MJ's issues, yet Katherine claimed she didn't know or see a thing. Randy did all of these alleged interventions so maybe when MJ announced these shows he should've went to AEG and informed them that his brother needs help.. why didn't he do that?

Don't try to understand Randy or most of them. Randy testified that he couldn't remember when he saw MJ last or did he see him in 2009 at all, so how much do you think he knew anything about MJ?

 

[jaydom7]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

That's what true cowards do. They hide when confronted. :yes:

True and that's what he did...Both Rebbie and Janet were also doing a lot of talking and yet neither of them showed up to testify at that court. I don't even think Janet ever took a deposition did she? she was just spewing her garbage on tv to Robin Roberts and Oprah Winfrey.

 

[Member Service]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Thread cleaned: Please keep on topic and be civil in your comments and replies. Right now this thread is going in circles with the same old arguments as before nothing new to add to this discussion. Plus The tone in some of your posts which is against MJJC policy is not going to be tolerated much longer. If you wish the thread to remain open please check that. .

Thank you for your cooperation and as always if you have any questions or concerns PM Admin and do not derail the thread by replying or discussing moderation actions on your posts or moderation requests on the board

 

[Member Service]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Once again Thread cleaned

Thread closed New Appeal thread open in main Trial and Trib forum

 

[ivy]

Re: KJ vs AEG Trial outcome : Appeal

Verdict Appeal

On January 22, 2014 Jacksons sent a notice of appeal in regards to the verdict/judgment entered in the case. Notice of the appeal was logged on January 29th.

Link: http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=2&doc_id=2067641&doc_no=B253972

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PS: This is just a news update, thread will remain closed until ....