Maximum - Jackson closed by domain owner.

[Arklove]

judging a forum by a countable number of members,or founders or anyone isn't fair at all...yes there were a lot of unfair things that may have happened,but that shouldn't drift us away from objectivity....

Well, one sorta does have to judge a forum by some member or founders because those very founders have the power to ban you or control what you say...At least in this case on MaxJax....They can make or break the atmosphere, so to speak...When members are getting banned left, right and centre without solid reasons, without a chance for rebuttal or even an explanation, how can you not judge that harshly? It's a fan forum...a place to discuss MJ's music, the man himself, or any other discussion within reason, with respect....Occasional arguments can and do happen, and there's nothing wrong with that...But when censorship and blatant lack of respect and just plain nastiness start to take priority, then it's not a surprise to expect these types of reactions...

 

[The Healer]

I am a member of some other Mj forums and they are sweet but with time you just gravitate to one forum that you think it is the best. That happened to me , I have joined MJJC in may 2009 under a different name and this is the place where I feel most confortable. At Max , I never felt welcomed , never.
But I kept on going and posting there because I wanted to talk and see what is behind an MJ fan who clains that MJ was a lousy father. I mean...really.
In many ocassions I got arogancy, calling names , laughet at , etc.
When I said Michael is sexy some called me delusional and said MJ was totaly asexual and that all of that was an act for crazy fans like myself.
When I said I want Murray behind bars for good , I was attacked like you would not believe.
When I said Michael was a good actor in Moonwalker - once again I was delusional and blind.
Is that a FAN board ? Hardly.

 

[tidus72000]

A good MJ forum is when you feel at home despite differences of opinion. I am sorry, but that kind of thing was apparently forbidden by some of the very founders on Max-Jax. The people witnessing on this thread about injustice that has been done to them are not making up stories. They're MJ fans banned for no real reason on a Michael Jackson forum. How's that fair?

i think in my comment that you quoted i said that there were unfair things happened,so we agree on that...

I wish some of those members would come here and explain their " objectivity ".

now if you are meaning me and wanting me to explain my objectivity,well again as i said Max Jax is thousands of threads made of thousands of posts posted by thousands of members...abbreviating the whole forum in just COUNTABLE members or founders and saying for example tidus72000 is a bully so Max Jax is a bad forum,this is non objective cuz you just ignored the whole actual forum made by the members and ignored all good members there..

Well, one sorta does have to judge a forum by some member or founders because those very founders have the power to ban you or control what you say...At least in this case on MaxJax....They can make or break the atmosphere, so to speak...When members are getting banned left, right and centre without solid reasons, without a chance for rebuttal or even an explanation, how can you not judge that harshly? It's a fan forum...a place to discuss MJ's music, the man himself, or any other discussion within reason, with respect....Occasional arguments can and do happen, and there's nothing wrong with that...But when censorship and blatant lack of respect and just plain nastiness start to take priority, then it's not a surprise to expect these types of reactions...

i quoted your comment to tell you one thing,that my comment is directed to the people happy that Max Jax is closed..you can be upset,but that shouldn't drive you into hatred...

 

[The Healer]

now if you are meaning me and wanting me to explain my objectivity,well again as i said Max Jax is thousands of threads made of thousands of posts posted by thousands of members...abbreviating the whole forum in just COUNTABLE members or founders and saying for example tidus72000 is a bully so Max Jax is a bad forum,this is non objective cuz you just ignored the whole actual forum made by the members and ignored all good members there..
said tidus72000


I did not think about you. I did not ignore good members as you say , many of them were banned....
The fact is that some members there were constantly thanking each other that became so anoying. No one who does not agrre with them got any single " thank you ". Just anoying.
There was a clan. Other members who did not agree were ignored. Sad but true.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

i think in my comment that you quoted i said that there were unfair things happened,so we agree on that...


now if you are meaning me and wanting me to explain my objectivity,well again as i said Max Jax is thousands of threads made of thousands of posts posted by thousands of members...abbreviating the whole forum in just COUNTABLE members or founders and saying for example tidus72000 is a bully so Max Jax is a bad forum,this is non objective cuz you just ignored the whole actual forum made by the members and ignored all good members there..



i quoted your comment to tell you one thing,that my comment is directed to the people happy that Max Jax is closed..you can be upset,but that shouldn't drive you into hatred...

Let's face it, people are happy not because the forum is closed, but because no more injustice will be done on that forum. What else would be the reason of the happiness when a forum closes?

I am sure that everyone would be happy to see it re-open with a more respectful staff. To some it would be the home forum, to others an alternative forum, that's a personal thing.

 

[MJelboo]

It's true… the true people that caused its downfall are few in numbers. The forum was a great place, but the internal struggles and a number of egotripping members & founders ruined it for the rest of us. The forum was not meant to hate Michael or be negative, it's just that certain people there had a very cynical view of him and encouraged that view in others. Those people were more often than not people with power.

 

[ivy]

My 2 cents here

I don't know Smooth-c / Greg at all. My whole interaction has been with Pompous Git and some moderators (krystikel) whom I dearly like.

"I've been banned from max-jax" has been a common complaint that has been mentioned a lot , as MJJC we always said we don't allow discussion of other websites moderation decisions and that was it. I can't tell if the banning(s) were warranted or not as there's always two sides to the story - the banned member and the moderation team. All I know that was a common complaint.

I also wouldn't like to comment about any moderators style and likability because I'm sure if we polled all MJJC members there would be members that don't like me or my moderation style.

2 things had attracted my attention recently

--- postings have really slowed down. All of the fan sites have slowed down after Michael's death but on max-jax very recently the slow down was too apparent such as trial threads or heated topics on other forums wouldn't generate much interest.

--- in a thread the admins was calling Michael an addict.

Here I'll do an explanation. In regards to objectivity and being realistic no one can deny that Michael had issues with drugs over some periods but calling him flat out an addict seemed quite disappointing to me. During our Q&A with Dr. Shafer and my private conversations he always said he can't come to an addict conclusion because he didn't know Michael's medical history, his problems, why he was given a certain drug and his pain threshold etc. Unlike Dr. Shafer we all know Michael's Pepsi burn, emotional toll of two accusation, 1999 Bridge fall, his decades long problems with insomnia and that he was getting botox injections in his groin & scalp. So overall I felt like we know the context of his drug use and could see that it wasn't due to a chase of high or fun. I felt if we as Michael Jackson fans cannot put it in context and reduce it to "an addict", how can we expect the media be any better. That was my disappointment.

 

[peace.love.mj]

^And even if Michael was an addict, that still doesn't warrant countless attacks on his parenting skills, mental health, and stability either.
It is a FAN form for goodness sakes.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

My 2 cents here

I don't know Smooth-c / Greg at all. My whole interaction has been with Pompous Git and some moderators (krystikel) whom I dearly like.

"I've been banned from max-jax" has been a common complaint that has been mentioned a lot , as MJJC we always said we don't allow discussion of other websites moderation decisions and that was it. I can't tell if the banning(s) were warranted or not as there's always two sides to the story - the banned member and the moderation team. All I know that was a common complaint.

I also wouldn't like to comment about any moderators style and likability because I'm sure if we polled all MJJC members there would be members that don't like me or my moderation style.

2 things had attracted my attention recently

--- postings have really slowed down. All of the fan sites have slowed down after Michael's death but on max-jax very recently the slow down was too apparent such as trial threads or heated topics on other forums wouldn't generate much interest.

--- in a thread the admins was calling Michael an addict.

Here I'll do an explanation. In regards to objectivity and being realistic no one can deny that Michael had issues with drugs over some periods but calling him flat out an addict seemed quite disappointing to me. During our Q&A with Dr. Shafer and my private conversations he always said he can't come to an addict conclusion because he didn't know Michael's medical history, his problems, why he was given a certain drug and his pain threshold etc. Unlike Dr. Shafer we all know Michael's Pepsi burn, emotional toll of two accusation, 1999 Bridge fall, his decades long problems with insomnia and that he was getting botox injections in his groin & scalp. So overall I felt like we know the context of his drug use and could see that it wasn't due to a chase of high or fun. I felt if we as Michael Jackson fans cannot put it in context and reduce it to "an addict", how can we expect the media be any better. That was my disappointment.

If I add my 2 cents, that'll be 4.

You know what's the worst thing? It's when people on MJ forum treat Michael Jackson addict, bad father, and many other things, and at the same time you aren't able to voice your opinion and defend Michael because you are banned.

 

[tidus72000]

now if you are meaning me and wanting me to explain my objectivity,well again as i said Max Jax is thousands of threads made of thousands of posts posted by thousands of members...abbreviating the whole forum in just COUNTABLE members or founders and saying for example tidus72000 is a bully so Max Jax is a bad forum,this is non objective cuz you just ignored the whole actual forum made by the members and ignored all good members there..
said tidus72000


I did not think about you. I did not ignore good members as you say , many of them were banned....
The fact is that some members there were constantly thanking each other that became so anoying. No one who does not agrre with them got any single " thank you ". Just anoying.
There was a clan. Other members who did not agree were ignored. Sad but true.

sorry,i thought you wanted me to explain what objectivity meant for me..my bad
also,i didn't say you ignored good members...i am talking about people happy the forum closed and forgetting all good things about the Max Jax

also about the "thanks" issue you addressed,it happens in every single forum MJ or Not MJ,for example: i didn't get till now any thanks here except only one (which i don't know where LOL) and i don't feel annoyed or ignored,shall i feel ignored????

Let's face it, people are happy not because the forum is closed, but because no more injustice will be done on that forum. What else would be the reason of the happiness when a forum closes?

I am sure that everyone would be happy to see it re-open with a more respectful staff. To some it would be the home forum, to others an alternative forum, that's a personal thing.

so people are happy that no injustice will be on Max Jax even if the cost was closing the whole forum down....

@ivy...sorry i didn't quote your comment ,but yes posting was really slow the last couple of months on Max Jax,but also mthe fourm was sooooo dynamic during the michael album and cascio fake tracks situation even some members here on MJJC shifted their activity to Max Jax on that period...

 

[peace.love.mj]

I have to say on the bannings too, there was a big group of us who all got banned at the same time (this group was really the last of the original big posters from MaxJax) for mostly ridiculous reasons. They said that we (people who had been there for years without ever getting an infraction) were there only to cause trouble the whole time after one of the people in our "group" posted an offensive message.

Now that was aggravating but what really pissed me off was when one of our friends who hadn't been banned (he has posted in this thread) got banned simply for being associated with us and trying to stand up for us. He had never gotten an infraction before either and simply got banned for life because the team thought that one of his posts was breaking the rule of "questioning a banning." They never asked him about the post or even questioned him directly but just banned him because he was in contact with our group of "troublemakers."
That's the kind of stuff that was going on.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

so people are happy that no injustice will be on Max Jax even if the cost was closing the whole forum down....

The forum is closed not because of the banned members, but because of those who misused the moderating power. So, yes, with such moderators, it is better to close the forum down and when a better staff is found, re-open it. I never advocated for a permanent closing (unlike the moderators on that forum who permanently banned MJ fans).

 

[angel2]

Hopefully Smooth C reads this thread ..... as I wish to take this opportunity to request that he re-opens Max Jax minus the offensive people mentioned who led to the down fall of a great MJ Forum.
Let him un-ban everybody and make a fresh start.
I would love to retrieve the many inspirational threads I posted ... and my personal pictures and the contents of my blog.

Sad that a piece of MJ HIStory has been obliterated.....

 

[bowtiesarecool]

I'm new here, and I registered because I've heard a lot about MJJC and how active it is. I'm going to make a point of posting more and trying to get to know my way around.

I'm Greg's fiancée, Christina. I just wanted to say that it's been nice to read the support that Greg has been getting from the majority of you in this thread. The decision he came to was not an easy one to make. Just to clarify, it is my understanding that the forum has not closed down forever, it just needs to be pointed to another domain (that anyone still interested in running the site can purchase easily). It's just that Greg no longer wanted to be associated with the site and felt like in order to remove his name from the door, so to speak, he wanted to do this.

I'm sure if there is a determination for MaxJax to be back up, then it will be - and good luck to them. I wish them all the best. Let's hope if it does come back in some way, shape or form, there will be a change for the better.

The most important thing in all of this is Michael and doing right by him.

 

[Korgnex]

My 2 cents:

• 1st cent:
  "Upside & friends" vs. part of the founders
  (You can witness this on Twitter, they are "celebrating their victory", malicious joy is the best joy, isn't it?)
• 2nd cent:
  double entendre of the word "drug addict"
  Let me explain: Michael was - as a matter of fact - dependent from "prescription drugs" at times (He has even written the song "Morphine" because of that and he thanked Elton John for getting him into rehab, check your BOTDF booklet).
  The word "drug" in "description drugs" however is not what people usually see as "drug" (=intoxicants). Saying MJ was a "drug addict" doesn't sound nice, especially when a fan says it but it's actually not wrong - presumed you do know how it is meant.
  So unless I could see now what you are talking about (the context would be important), I have a feeling that some people (those that are friends of the banned individual) are bullying against a certain founder who they are making personally responsible for all decisions of a team that consisted of 5 founders back then who all had the power to interfere and contribute to the decisions regarding bans. Why blame 1 of them when 4 others could have done sth against it?

Just my 2 cents. Please don't stone me to death now.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I'm new here, and I registered because I've heard a lot about MJJC and how active it is. I'm going to make a point of posting more and trying to get to know my way around.

I'm Greg's fiancé, Christina. I just wanted to say that it's been nice to read the support that Greg has been getting from the majority of you in this thread. The decision he came to was not an easy one to make. Just to clarify, it is my understanding that the forum has not closed down forever, it just needs to be pointed to another domain (that anyone still interested in running the site can purchase easily). It's just that Greg no longer wanted to be associated with the site and felt like in order to remove his name from the door, so to speak, he wanted to do this.

I'm sure if there is a determination for MaxJax to be back up, then it will be - and good luck to them. I wish them all the best. Let's hope if it does come back in some way, shape or form, there will be a change for the better.

The most important thing in all of this is Michael and doing right by him.

Welcome on board

I wish everything gets solved for the best. I just hope it gets purchased by people who won't trash Michael, his fans and MJJC.

 

[ivy]

^^

Actually "drug addict" is wrong terminology.

As Dr. Shafer has pointed out the medical term is "drug dependency" and "addict" is a layman term.
As USA law points out any level of drug use if there's a medical reason is "dependency". (such as if you were given painkillers because you hurt yourself but later cannot stop for any reason you have dependency). Legally an "addict" is when there's no medical reason and the person is chasing a high. (such as if you go and get some medicine to feel high/better with no previous reason).

It's also clear that the every day person's use of "drug addict" symbolizes chasing a high / no valid reason regardless of the drug being a recreational or prescription type.

So the right terminology should be "drug dependency" and not a "drug addict".

And this is the due diligence that we can show to Michael as his fans and still be realistic and objective. If we are to forget this difference and reduce him to an "addict" we can't really expect non-fans, public and media to treat him any better.

 

[Korgnex]

Yes, but there are fans who aren't native speakers and there are even MORE fans (MANY!) who have no clue about correct medical terms and who use these layman terms.
Just look at all these "journalists" - not all of them are saying it wrong INTENTIONALLY, many of them just have no clue!

 

[bowtiesarecool]

Welcome on board

I wish everything gets solved for the best. I just hope it gets purchased by people who won't trash Michael, his fans and MJJC.

Thanks very much for the welcome and the lovely post. Much appreciated!

 

[Niall Jackson]

Hey guys,

I didn't want this landmark to pass by an not have any input. As a proud MaxJax user for almost 3 years, seeing this chapter finally close has definitely not gone unnoticed by me. Some of you may or may not know me, I was a fairly frequent poster at MaxJax under the handle 'NiallJackson' and I had frequented the board since early 2009.

The mature method in which Greg dealt with the recent termination of Max Jax brought a smile to my face; as little ugliness as possible, contrary to the reaction from a certain individual. I know it must have been hard to finally close that chapter completely for him. After all it was a place he had a lot of input in creating and maintaining and it is where he met his now fiancée, Christina.

I wasn't there from the beginning but in the first year or so that I was there I definitely felt like I became part of a family. This is in no part due to the great work of the founders, so I want to thank them personally for their role in creating the best forum I've ever used. The atmosphere I walked into in early 2009 was both welcoming and entertaining and the friendliness and understanding was what finally made me register in October that year. Finding Max Jax has been a big part of my grieving process since losing 'our Angel' on that fateful day in June 2009 and without it I don't know what I would have done.

So from the early days and the speculation over what was to be The Greatest Show Never Seen to the awesome bonding and comfort after the loss of Michael that we as fans were put through, I thank the members and founders for such a great experience. It truly has made me better person.



However, I'm sure if you've read this far into this thread that by now you know MaxJax became plagued with many, and fatal, problems. I'm not the sort of person to walk into a forum I barely use and start flinging mud so I won't out of respect for the moderation team here and other members. I'm not going to repeat a list of all the problems that have been posted the last 14 pages (Mainly because that would be extremely vapid of me).

The fact of the matter is, where MaxJax is today is not because of Michael's death, it IS because of how things were dealt with. If you know me, you'll know that I am/was no angel and I'll never claim to be. Was I the sort of person who would make a risqué joke in an attempt to make others laugh but at the risk of being reprimanded? Hell YES! ..but was I the sort of person who would allow rudeness, disrespect and down right tyranny be forced upon fellow Michael Jackson fans without me saying anything? DAMN right I wouldn't!

From what I've said above you'll know that once upon I loved MaxJax even though I didn't even have an account there until October 2009. I've heard people say 'MaxJax went down hill after Michael's death' which is simply not true and frankly, very unfair.

For it was not until late 2010 when an infamous album dropped and a certain turbulent saga in MJ history began. Even members here at MJJC know how ugly things got in the MJ community (and still are in some places) because of this controversy but it seemed at the same time a certain person on MaxJax went through a total personality transplant. Add in a few extremely bizarre additions to the moderation team and the loss of Greg and these changes all happening simultaneously and you have what ultimately led to MaxJax's downfall.

Without going into too much detail. Come the end of of April 2011 I was staring at my computer screen wondering what had happened. Within the space of a week many of my best MJ friends and the site's most committed and intelligent members had been banned from the site. I knew my own place on their was hanging on the string. I couldn't get involved in the more heated discussions on the site without the worry of what might happen. I knew that any opportunity to give me infractions, or worse, ban me would be taken. Lo and behold this came finally in August 2011. I was given an infraction, leading to an at first temporary ban, then MaxJax went down in late August, when the forums came online again mid-September the ban had been made permanent. A few months down the line we sit here today in this situation, sad but true.

RIP Max Jax - the Greatest Michael Jackson forum 2008-2010 (IMO of course ;-D)

Thanks again, to the likes of Greg and Chell (AND ALL the many fantastic members they've had over the year), it's great fans like you that I know Michael would be looking down on with a smile on his face



- Niall

PS. I've seen some names in here I've not read in a while.. Don't be a stranger! Contact me, you guys were really great contributors and I felt like we sparked up some good friendships. COME TALK TO ME!

PSS. L.O.V.E. and all that ish.. x

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Yes, but there are fans who aren't native speakers and there are even MORE fans (MANY!) who have no clue about correct medical terms and who use these layman terms.
Just look at all these "journalists" - not all of them are saying it wrong INTENTIONALLY, many of them just have no clue!

The problem is not the wording, but the concept. If we associate "addict" to Michael it has very negative connotation. It means Michael chose to be one. Whereas using "dependancy" is something that we can't control or choose. There's a difference between a treatment dependancy and pleasure addiction. I am sure the journalists know the difference.

 

[ivy]

Yes, but there are fans who aren't native speakers and there are even MORE fans (MANY!) who have no clue about correct medical terms and who use these layman terms.
Just look at all these "journalists" - not all of them are saying it wrong INTENTIONALLY, many of them just have no clue!

We aren't talking about fans in general. I remember seeing Pompous Git write it as well as Killer Queen (I think) and I think both are native English speakers. Again I don't want to make a big deal of it but simply put: to see any MJ fan forum to say "MJ was an addict" is a little disappointing in my book.

 

[Korgnex]

It is disappointing but how can we know if they just had it wrong or if they wanted to tell us that MJ was an addict in their eyes? You would have to show me the exact context to assume it was the 2nd option. That's what I'm saying.
Have they really written "an addict" per se?

 

[kindofdisco]

^ Dude seriously, you were on MaxJax. You saw the way PG and KQ wrote their posts. They were ALWAYS condescending, always putting down others and making their own view somehow more "right" than everyone elses. It's not what they were saying, it's the way they were going about it. At the end of the day I don't give a flying rip if they thought Michael was an addict but the fact that they tried to make it out like it was the TRUTH and everybody else's opinions didn't matter is what annoys the crap out of me.

 

[tyff says whoa]

^ True stuff.

 

[Korgnex]

I was only active in a few threads, mainly Cascio-related. And to be fair, it wasn't just the founders who have behaved wrong. It all started with the Cascio fiasco that was out of control on MaxJax. Damien Shields has got it almost right on Twitter: That was indeed the trigger that has caused a wide gulf between some founders as well as between regular members. But he forgot to mention that regular members have had some responsibility as well. Don't forget that a coin has a verso.

 

[ivy]

It is disappointing but how can we know if they just had it wrong or if they wanted to tell us that MJ was an addict in their eyes? You would have to show me the exact context to assume it was the 2nd option. That's what I'm saying.
Have they really written "an addict" per se?

magical michael wrote

On this board...Michael was called a drug addict , a man who did not care enough about his kids , a man who was not honest with his fans , that he was filthy rich and a symbol for capitalism...just another celebrity.

Killer queen response

LOL okay...you make a thread like this just because some of us don't kiss MJ's butt 24/7? You can be a fan of someone without kissing serious butt. It is possible!

So yeah, we all know I was the ''certain lady'' who mentioned the gold pants and the drooling thing. You did exactly that anyway - you went over to the gold pants thread to post pictures of him in gold pants. So...whatever.

Look, MJ was a drug addict. Absolutely was. He was also filthy rich and a symbol of capitalism. Left ridiculous amounts of debt because he couldn't manage his outlandish spending. Yes - he did.

Nothing wrong with fans admitting these things, for crying out loud. This isn't a perfect world we live in, and it's not a weakness to admit your idol was imperfect.

But clearly you've posted this thread to provoke team members, and other members. No other reason than that. Max Jax is what it is.

Pompous Git response

It isn't in doubt that Michael Jackson abused drugs he should not have and that he was an addict who had a bent doctor as his enabler. Of course, his dishonesty with the fans on this very important matter is going to be pointed out and should be instead of a very inhuman portrait of him as some kind of angel of light when he literally wasn't. If he cared enough about his kids who should have come first...he wouldn't have abused propofol and would have sought the appropriate medical help - the Talbot Center would've been a good place. I know I wouldn't do that to mine. In the end, his own actions as well as choices will and do reflect on him.

Michael was filthy rich - aside from the Occupy Movement, how is that negative? Most people, if not all, are in full agreement that he was so filthy rich he could have his own ranch and spend many millions on pretty much anything he chose. "Filthy rich" is a popular saying that means "a lot of money". Michael was also a symbol of capitalism - Thriller is one example amongst many that shows it and Michael actually loved capitalism...he did visit the New York and London Stock Exchanges as well as Nasdaq which wasn't for entertainment cos he was interested in buying shares. Hell, he owned shares in 33 different companies in 1993! That's capitalism.

there were other members saying that as well. To me that's disappointing coming from any MJ fan - not limited to forum admins.

Anyway I said what I wanted to say.

Source : go to google and search for "How is Max Jax treating Michael" and read the first 10 posts from cache.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I was only active in a few threads, mainly Cascio-related. And to be fair, it wasn't just the founders who have behaved wrong. It all started with the Cascio fiasco that was out of control on MaxJax. Damien Shields has got it almost right: That was the trigger that has caused a wide gulf between some founders as well as between regular members. But he forgot to mention that regular members have had some responsibility as well. Don't forget that a coin has a verso.

Well, the issue is that we who were banned weren't able to defend our side of the coin as we were censured

 

[peace.love.mj]

^What Ivy posted is exactly the kind of stuff that was going on. In every.single.thread.

 

[Korgnex]

Thanks ivy, in that case I'm on your side. Even though you could personally see it that way, as a founder of a Michael Jackson forum, this is simply disgusting!

Well, the issue is that we who were banned weren't able to defend our side of the coin as we were censured

I'm only aware of the bans that were justified (e.g. Kapital and Niall were banned because they couldn't stop insulting me). I don't know about this "censorship". You would have to fill me in.