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Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

belows the full article on the spike.

Michael Jackson received the fatal dose of Propofol through an IV in his leg, and law enforcement believes Dr. Conrad Murray may have tried covering it up ... this according to law enforcement sources and an anesthesiologist who reviewed the case for the LAPD.


Dr. Murray told cops he administered only a very small amount of Propofol -- 2.5ml shortly before Jackson died. But Dr. John Dombrowski, a noted anesthesiologist and member of the board of the American Society of Anesthesiologists who reviewed the LAPD file for detectives, tells TMZ that 2.5ml couldn't put Jackson to sleep, much less kill him. Indeed, the Coroner's report notes the level of Propofol found in Jackson's body was equivalent to that found during "general anesthesia for major surgery."

A small, empty, 20ml bottle of Propofol was found in the bedroom, but there was a secret compartment in a nearby closet that could be the key to the prosecution's case. Several days after Jackson's death, law enforcement found numerous bottles of Propofol in that closet, including a large, empty, 100ml bottle with a large tear in the rubber stopper.

The tear could be critical evidence. There are two ways of administering Propofol. The first is sticking a syringe into the rubber stopper, withdrawing a small amount and then injecting it into the tubing. The second way is by using a spike -- which creates a tear in the rubber stop -- and connects the entire bottle of Propofol to the tube.

Dr. Dombrowski says if a spike is used to connect the bottle directly to the IV tube, the doctor must use an infusion pump to regulate the flow of Propofol -- otherwise, the patient could easily OD. There was no infusion pump found in Jackson's home.

Dr. Dombrowski and law enforcement sources believe Dr. Murray may have connected the 100ml bottle of Propofol to the tube, and then either tried regulating the flow by eyeballing it or just letting it flow by itself ... and Dr. Dombrowski calls either scenario "reckless." Remember, Dr. Murray himself told detectives at one point he walked out of Jackson's room to go to the bathroom.

If Dr. Murray did indeed attach the 100ml bottle to the tube and the contents emptied into Jackson's system, that would be 40 times more Propofol than Dr. Murray said he administered.

There is no explanation for the empty bottle of Propofol in the hidden compartment.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0gubSMnZ9
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Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

well the judge has said that he wants this moving along so let's hope he pushes it along. Murray knows what he did.
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

longer the time till the trial, the more time it gives the puppet masters to elimate more people around him, making it less suspicious if they had to eliminate them during a shorter period of time.

the judge wants this moving along? last saturaday, oxman says it seem lapd are doing nothing even though they say "it's ongoing". let's hope he's wrong.

last time, he said it seemed like the preliminary would be pushed further back. i was hoping he was wrong then, but he wasn't.
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

thanks for reposting that elusive.. I believe that's what Murray did. He was eyeballing it. He had no freakin' clue what the hell he was doing
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

kasume said:
longer the time till the trial, the more time it gives the puppet masters to elimate more people around him, making it less suspicious if they had to eliminate them during a shorter period of time.

the judge wants this moving along? last saturaday, oxman says it seem lapd are doing nothing even though they say "it's ongoing". let's hope he's wrong.

last time, he said it seemed like the preliminary would be pushed further back. i was hoping he was wrong then, but he wasn't.
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who are you referring to?
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

last time, he said it seemed like the preliminary would be pushed further back. i was hoping he was wrong then, but he wasn't.
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the hearing wasnt pushed back. it was never set.the last hearing was to set a date which we have now.

thecase has gone to a prelim. all investigations are pretty much finished.the case is always open to new evidence but once the charges are filed you know what your case is going to. a case is always ongoing. thats the set wording
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

the bottle withthe spike was found in the closet. how can the pros prove that bottle was used on the night of the 24th? and did the other bottles have the same tear?
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

elusive moonwalker said:
the bottle withthe spike was found in the closet. how can the pros prove that bottle was used on the night of the 24th? and did the other bottles have the same tear?
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I don't think they can prove it. It's clear form the article that there was only one bottle with a tear, so the other ones either had their caps intact, or had no caps at all. Based on common sense (but we're talking about murray), the method of administration would of been the same each time. We'll see...
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

yeah i guess it depends on the other bottles. whether they were open or not and what was originally found.
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

elusive moonwalker said:
the hearing wasnt pushed back. it was never set.the last hearing was to set a date which we have now.
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That's CLEARLY not what I remembered. Even CNN was ahead and ready for the prelim on that day, then were left as stunned as fans. I was watching the channel.

Conrad Murray's Prelim Set for August 23
http://losangelescriminallegalblog....ys-preliminary-hearing-set-for-august-23.html

Delayed
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20014527-504083.html

Talk of delay here.
http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/node/921029
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

well I just hope it starts on January 4,2011
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

kasume said:


What I would like to know is how many propofol bottles were found? Was is several?
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In "Medical Evidence 3A" in the Autopsy Report it is stated that they were:
- 3 of 100ml
- 8 of 20ml
They were collected by police on June 29, AFTER Murray had told them where they could find his "doctor's bag" and a search warrant was authorised. (I wonder if 2 days was not too much since the "interview" with Murray was on 27thJ...).
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

- 3 - 10 mg/ml 1% lydocaine vials (2 empty, 1 3/4 full)
- 1 empty bottle propofol 200 mg
- 1 pulse monometer
- 1 empty vial lorazepam 4 mg
- 2 empty vials midazolam 10mg
- 1 empty vial propofol 1g/100ml
- 1 black nylon bag
- 1 dark blue costco bag
- 1 light blue canvas bag
- 1 pill bottle with 13 tablets containing 25 mg ephedrine, 200 mg caffeine, 80 mg aspirin
- 4 vials propofol 200mg/20ml
- 2 vials 5 mg flumazenil
- 1 vial lorazepam
- 1 vial lidocane
- 200mg vials of propofol (1 full, 1 1/4 full)
- 1 empty bag I.V. drip of sodium chloride with syringe
- 1 ziplock baggy containing 18 tubes of Benoquin
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1g/100 ml = 1000mg/100ml

They mention 4 vilas 200mg/20ml , then 200 mg vials of propofol , we don't know whether they were referring to the same vials.
 
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Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

kasume said:
That's CLEARLY not what I remembered. Even CNN was ahead and ready for the prelim on that day, then were left as stunned as fans. I was watching the channel.

Conrad Murray's Prelim Set for August 23
http://losangelescriminallegalblog....ys-preliminary-hearing-set-for-august-23.html

Delayed
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20014527-504083.html

Talk of delay here.
http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/node/921029
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the media reported wrong. at the previous hearing b4 that one it stated it was a prelim setting hearing. even TMZ got it right and i think the only legit source who got it right were AP linda D. unfortunatly the majority of the media got it wrong which led most fans to think it was the actual prelim
 
Re: Spike in the propofol bottle

Soundmind said:
They mention 4 vilas 200mg/20ml , then 200 mg vials of propofol , we don't know whether they were referring to the same vials.
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http://lascftp.lasuperiorcourt.org/hp/a4lu0445hftr0n45t5z3um55/1381114026.pdf
On page 2 and 3 of the "Search warrant...), the vials are mentioned. They are the same number as they appear on Medical Evidence 3A in the AR: 8 bottles or vials of 20ml and 3 of 100ml.

Taken from the link mentioned:
1 empty bottle propofol 200 mg ;
1 empty vial propofol 1g/100ml
1 vial propofol 200mg
4 vials propofol 200mg/20ml
2- 100ml vials of propofol
2- 200mg vials of propofol (1 full, 1-1/4 full)
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-------------
 
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Re: Please help me out - I'm confused!

kasume said:
yeah, i spoke to a med student about that, and that's exactly what he told me. TOO many benzons for just a short period of time, and not only that, mixed with propofol too.

he was determined to bring michael down.



BUT, security tapes would show who went in and out the house, and who stayed and for how long. And possibly, even what items people were holding, putting in bags, whatever.

Those tapes are so vital.
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I agree but I wanted to know if the tapes exist? We know that the tapes of the night of Michael's death are missing, what about security tapes of te days after his death, do we know anything about that?
 
We know that the tapes of the night of Michael's death are missing
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we dont know that. the whole story started from the national enquiere who have no credibility. so until its offically confirmed its nothing but tabloid gossip
 
elusive moonwalker said:
we dont know that. the whole story started from the national enquiere who have no credibility. so until its offically confirmed its nothing but tabloid gossip
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Really? Thanks for explaining, I didn't know that. I really hope the police has the tapes, if they do it is a done deal. they would show us exactly what happened that night.
 
yeah it started off in the NE then got picked up by mainstream press like cnn. but nothing has ever been confirmed and i doubt it will till the trial and maybe not even then
 
elusive moonwalker said:
yeah it started off in the NE then got picked up by mainstream press like cnn. but nothing has ever been confirmed and i doubt it will till the trial and maybe not even then
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I have to totally agree with elusive. There are most likely many, many things that have been "reported", but few things confirmed. Leaks are just that, "leaks". From whom and what sources, and for what reasons. Sensationalism, to draw more readers, to receive money for "scoops". Until this trial really get's underway, and it's jmo, but there's going to be some major prejudicial reporting and interpretations coming our way. Some may like to hear what may be stated as factual, and others may be equally sceptical of what's being reported as fact.

For those of us that have lived through the many trials and tribulations throughout Michael's past, it's fairly safe to say we've become sceptical of most if not all reporting.

The only one I personally will give some credance to is Linda Deutch (sp?) at this point in time. She may not 110% always report what we may want to hear, but I will listen/read her reports with interest. I don't think she is totally biased for Michael, nor against him. She has always seemed to be the most realistic, well informed, and not prejudiced one way or the other.

jmo
 
In the search warrant they did say security cameras showed Murray's car entering the gates at 1:05 am that night.
 
I Need A Medical Opinion

Now im not saying a believe Murray's testimony, because i don't, but, i am thinking as time goes by that Murray will walk free, i need someone with medical experience to answer a question for me.

If Dr Murray was indeed attempting to ween Michael off propofol for 2 days, would a sudden reintroduction result in death? I mean on top of everything else that was given
 
Re: I Need A Medical Opinion

No, one does not develop tolerance to propofol. I think what you're asking is that if Michael got used to the propofol and needed more for it to work, then using the same amount that he was used to after 'weaning' him off might then be too much for the body? That will not be the case with propofol.

Yes, the interactions and combined effects of the other drugs can make things worse but it's mainly because Michael was given too much propofol without any monitoring equipment or equipment to support his breathing etc. That is just the normal effects of propofol in the amount that Michael received.
 
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