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Michael did the Smooth Criminal lean in Kansas, 1988 ?

The Dangerous/HIStory stages had the Lean-connection built-in from the bottom of the stage.
The BAD tour stages never had any holes to accommodate for such grappling hooks. They aren`t visible on any picture of the stage!
Can`t imagine Michael using a wooden board on stage itself.. probably just a prototype wooden board, later inserted into the Dangerous rehearsals.
 
analogue said:
I know Smooth Criminal was sung 100% live at Madison Square Garden, but is there any proof that Michael sang it live at other shows?
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I guess not! But I was just thinking logically...
Michael usually didn't change things in the middle of a leg and he usually never went back to do things that he has already changed. We know for a fact that The Way You Make Me Feel was live in Kansas and that the three songs I mentioned were live in New York. Now...why would Michael perform only TWYMMF live in Kansas (which was the first concert) but all three songs in New York (which was the third concert)?

For the concerts after the three MSG concerts...I honestly don't know. But again, Michael usually changed stuff after a leg ended. That's why I'm assuming that he probably sang these three songs live until the last Minneapolis show, the last show of the first U.S leg.
 
Falcon;4287430 said:
The Dangerous/HIStory stages had the Lean-connection built-in from the bottom of the stage.
The BAD tour stages never had any holes to accommodate for such grappling hooks. They aren`t visible on any picture of the stage!
Can`t imagine Michael using a wooden board on stage itself.. probably just a prototype wooden board, later inserted into the Dangerous rehearsals.
Click to expand...

This. We may not have video footage of Smooth Criminal, but wouldn’t we have seen at least one or two photos of such an unusual stage act? Or someone mention it in a concert review? Particularly because the film wasn’t released yet, so no one could have expected it?

Take these with a grain of salt, as I’m a newbie collector and I don’t have all the receipts where I got the info, but according to my archives, the relevant dates are as follows:

  • 1987-02-00 Smooth Criminal (Short Film), Filming Begins
  • 1988-01-18 – 1988-02-11 Bad Tour Rehearsals, Pensacola, USA
  • 1988-02-23 Kansas City, USA
  • 1988-02-24 Kansas City, USA
  • 1988-10-13 Smooth Criminal (Short Film), Premiere
  • 1993-10-26 Lean Shoe Patent
 
ScreenOrigami;4287435 said:
This. We may not have video footage of Smooth Criminal, but wouldn’t we have seen at least one or two photos of such an unusual stage act? Or someone mention it in a concert review? Particularly because the film wasn’t released yet, so no one could have expected it?

Take these with a grain of salt, as I’m a newbie collector and I don’t have all the receipts where I got the info, but according to my archives, the relevant dates are as follows:

  • 1987-02-00 Smooth Criminal (Short Film), Filming Begins
  • 1988-01-18 – 1988-02-11 Bad Tour Rehearsals, Pensacola, USA
  • 1988-02-23 Kansas City, USA
  • 1988-02-24 Kansas City, USA
  • 1988-10-13 Smooth Criminal (Short Film), Premiere
  • 1993-10-26 Lean Shoe Patent
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct. And the rehearsals for the short film started in around September/October 1986.

[video=youtube;Bu51z1dJho0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu51z1dJho0[/video]
 
I would be over the moon if the Estate released New York 88 or Kansas during this lockdown. The speed in which I would call in sick to work would be unprecedented
Every time I have a long day at work, I just Jam out to Mike live in New York 88 amateur audio on the drive home, Mike was on fire on the early Bad Tour
 
When you look at that rehearsal footage, is it just me or does MJ look so much more cooler doing the moves he is being taught by the choreographer then the choreographer himself? Perhaps it's "fan bias" but if I didn't know who was who I'd say MJ was the teacher and the other guy was the one being taught.
MJ brought so much more to the moves he picked up from other people, all the little gestures the mimics of the face. You can't find a better example of making it your own, he upstages to people who taught him to dance imo
 
A choreographer is not necessarily a better dancer, just like a sports trainer isn’t necessarily a great player. Choreographer and dancer are two different professions. :)

That said, MJ does of course dance smoother than anybody else. :)
 
ScreenOrigami;4287435 said:
  • 1987-02-00 Smooth Criminal (Short Film), Filming Begins
    [*]1988-01-18 – 1988-02-11 Bad Tour Rehearsals, Pensacola, USA
  • 1988-02-23 Kansas City, USA
  • 1988-02-24 Kansas City, USA
  • 1988-10-13 Smooth Criminal (Short Film), Premiere
  • 1993-10-26 Lean Shoe Patent
Click to expand...

Do you happen to have all the dates for the Pensacola rehearsals?
 
JichaelMackson said:
When you look at that rehearsal footage, is it just me or does MJ look so much more cooler doing the moves he is being taught by the choreographer then the choreographer himself? Perhaps it's "fan bias" but if I didn't know who was who I'd say MJ was the teacher and the other guy was the one being taught.
MJ brought so much more to the moves he picked up from other people, all the little gestures the mimics of the face. You can't find a better example of making it your own, he upstages to people who taught him to dance imo
Click to expand...

It is not known how many times they rehearsed the thing, but Mike is known for being unstoppable.. it could simply be that his choreographer decided to spare his energy. He and other choreographers are known to go 'full out' in MJ`s videos so there`s probably a reason for the difference in 'dancing quality'..

When you look up videos of Travis Payne or LaVelle Smith Jr. you can clearly see that they decide to divide their energy over the course of a dancing event.

Mike was just a beast.. going and going..
 
dethorro said:
I guess not! But I was just thinking logically...
Michael usually didn't change things in the middle of a leg and he usually never went back to do things that he has already changed. We know for a fact that The Way You Make Me Feel was live in Kansas and that the three songs I mentioned were live in New York. Now...why would Michael perform only TWYMMF live in Kansas (which was the first concert) but all three songs in New York (which was the third concert)?

For the concerts after the three MSG concerts...I honestly don't know. But again, Michael usually changed stuff after a leg ended. That's why I'm assuming that he probably sang these three songs live until the last Minneapolis show, the last show of the first U.S leg.
Click to expand...

That's not entirely true. The first american leg had Human Nature and Smooth Criminal come after Another Part of Me, similiar to the dangerous tour structure and then changed in the european leg, or near the end of the American leg to IJCSLY and SOOML after APOM. He then changed it back during the last leg of the tour. Then if we talk about the Dangerous Tour he used the black jam jacket for munich and then discarded until the japan shows and the 93 leg.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
That's not entirely true. The first american leg had Human Nature and Smooth Criminal come after Another Part of Me, similiar to the dangerous tour structure and then changed in the european leg, or near the end of the American leg to IJCSLY and SOOML after APOM. He then changed it back during the last leg of the tour. Then if we talk about the Dangerous Tour he used the black jam jacket for munich and then discarded until the japan shows and the 93 leg.
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Yeah, I get that. But we're talking about live vocals here. :) I was trying to explain to analogue why I believe that Michael sang Smooth Criminal, Bad and The Way You Make Me Feel (which we have actual evidence of) live in Kansas.
Let's say Michael lip-synched Smooth Criminal in Kansas because he thought it was too difficult to sing it live but sang the other two songs live. Why would he sing Smooth Criminal live in New York, a couple of days later, if he thought it was too difficult? :)
 
JichaelMackson said:
When you look at that rehearsal footage, is it just me or does MJ look so much more cooler doing the moves he is being taught by the choreographer then the choreographer himself? Perhaps it's "fan bias" but if I didn't know who was who I'd say MJ was the teacher and the other guy was the one being taught.
MJ brought so much more to the moves he picked up from other people, all the little gestures the mimics of the face. You can't find a better example of making it your own, he upstages to people who taught him to dance imo
Click to expand...

We have found have common ground! I agree with you.
 
^Although the perspective given here is that Michael just learned from other people and was "taught". It's important to recognise what Michael Jackson was blessed with to begin with, and what he created himself in tandem with choreographers.

Though I do agree with the notion that Michael upstaged those around him in dance.
 
Why some think that he could have misdated that? No one thought that maybe he had the chance to check out some footage before writing that
 
Jackson Rules said:
Why some think that he could have misdated that? No one thought that maybe he had the chance to check out some footage before writing that
Click to expand...
Good point. If his info is true then kansas 88 just got even more interesting. You would think someone would mention it though or have a photo.
 
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