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Michael Jackson's attitude towards women in his music

mj_frenzy said:
In many of his songs, Michael Jackson portrays women in a rather negative light, to the point where he was even accused of exhibiting misogynist tendencies towards women.

For example:

- 'Walk Right Now'
- 'Working Day And Night'
- 'Billie Jean'
- 'Leave Me Alone'
- 'The Way You Make Me Feel' (in particular, the music video)
- 'Streetwalker' (outtake, even the song's title is derogatory)
- 'Abortion Papers' (outtake)
- 'Dangerous'
- 'Give In To Me'
- 'Who Is It'
- 'Superfly Sister'
- 'Blood On The Dance Floor'

It has been said that this attitude mainly stems from his experience when witnessing his brothers crying a lot because of certain things that women did to them.

One can say that he did release also songs that portray women in a positive light, such as 'The Lady In My Life', 'Baby Be Mine', 'P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)', 'You Are Not Alone', 'Butterflies', etc, but these songs were not written by him.

Discuss.
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I never really payed this no attention... maybe because I relate to it so much but daaaaamn this is kinda wild when you think about it 🤣
 
filmandmusic said:
You can't say things like that out of the blue, you're going to have to prove how good your art is now...
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Oh, did not see it before, I just ate one of my master pieces! Here is another one. And I never said it was 'good' art. Its modern art, sometimes it looks like something, sometimes it looks like nothing :cool:

IMG-20200402-133937.jpg
 
mj_frenzy said:
It has been confirmed by people who were close to him for many years.

For example:

"I've known Michael since he was fifteen. I've never seen him with a girl [or a woman] in the romantic sense. Not even one in all the years I've known him. Nobody that I know has ever seen him with one either" (quote from the 'Unmasked: The Final Years Of Michael Jackson' book)

The above quote comes from a musician who knew Michael Jackson personally, and he said that to Canadian investigative writer Ian Halperin who later included it in his book.

Also, staff at Neverland Ranch stated that the singer never spent a night with a woman in his bedroom.

Note also that these very few romantic relationships that Michael Jackson publicly claimed to have, they later proved to be non-existent.

He publicly claimed to have such romantic relationships apparently because record industry and show business dictated that.

For instance, American actress Tatum O'Neal revealed in her book that there was never any romance between her and the singer.

He only came to her house one day in order to see how a girl's bedroom looks like, and she described the singer as intimidated in their brief encounter there.

Also, female dancer Tatiana Thumbtzen in her 'The Way He Made Me Feel' book admitted that there was never any romance between her and the singer, as well.
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If you believe everything that was written about Michael, then you have to also believe the books written by fans like Shana Mangatal claiming they had steamy affairs with Michael. So which one are you going to believe?
I don't think an artist's true beliefs can be judged by their art. Not every word that Michael wrote represents his views of the world and people. I think taking a few songs that he wrote out of context and claiming that he was a misogynist or hated women is taking things too far.
 
Hiker said:
Oh, did not see it before, I just ate one of my master pieces! Here is another one. And I never said it was 'good' art. Its modern art, sometimes it looks like something, sometimes it looks like nothing :cool:

IMG-20200402-133937.jpg
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What the hell is that though :p
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Never thought I'd say this but Frenzy got a point lol.
Another song that was left out that also paints women, or a woman , in an unflattering light is Jane is a groupie
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There is also the 'Dirty Diana' song (not an outtake of course) but with a similar theme to that one.

'Dirty Diana' has been described as a sexist and a misogynist song, and by some music critics even as his worst single ever.
filmandmusic said:
What a monster he was. Drug addict, alcoholic, eccentric, pedophile, racist (he wanted to be white, right) and now he is also a misogynist.
The natural next step is wife beater?

I know it are slow days but c’mon celebrate the artist and acknowledge the fact that he was a philantrope, don’t feed the tabloids with more junk.
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Bob Jones (the singer's long-time publicist) stated that these philanthropic moves were purely meant as a technique for promoting Michael Jackson's image.

The publicist went on saying that as years passed this technique was becoming too traditional and ineffective, which made them to start coming up with new techniques for promoting his image in a more effective way.
Themidwestcowboy said:
To frenzy
In what way is the way you make me feel a misogynistic song? Lol, so are we just calling love songs misogynistic now?
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When the song is listened to with its music video in mind.
Hiker said:
I don't think an artist's true beliefs can be judged by their art. Not every word that Michael wrote represents his views of the world and people. I think taking a few songs that he wrote out of context and claiming that he was a misogynist or hated women is taking things too far.
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But these songs that he wrote tie with his inner thoughts and true beliefs (on that subject) that he expressed also to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach.

Michael Jackson made sweeping statements about women by generally portraying them as selfish, manipulative, cunning, or even evil.

You can also check the Bible example that the singer mentioned in those tapes.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Bob Jones (the singer's long-time publicist) stated that these philanthropic moves were purely meant as a technique for promoting Michael Jackson's image. The publicist went on saying that as years passed this technique was becoming too traditional and ineffective, which made them to start coming up with new techniques for promoting his image in a more effective way.
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This is a bunch of bullshit. I was on board with this thread and topic but stop posting this tabloid garbage.

I expect much more from you Frenzy. This is disappointing to read. MJ dedicated his entire life for philanthropic causes. He went above and beyond so much that it actually hurt his bank account. A lot of the stuff he did wasn't even disclosed to the public. There is an entire thread dedicated to all of his efforts here on this forum. For you to come here and post that tabloid garbage here insinuating that a cause he spent his entire life fighting for was a PR trick is disappointing and insulting.
 
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Frenzy with another terrible thread and post. Michael’s philanthropist songs weren’t anything but genuine. He was known to have given more money than any other celebrity to charity.

So Michael’s supposed sexist songs about women were a reflection of his views towards women? But his philanthropist songs aren’t a reflection of his views and are just for show? Someone I wonder if this frenzy is actually a fan or not.
 
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mj_frenzy said:
There is also the 'Dirty Diana' song (not an outtake of course) but with a similar theme to that one.

'Dirty Diana' has been described as a sexist and a misogynist song, and by some music critics even as his worst single ever.

Bob Jones (the singer's long-time publicist) stated that these philanthropic moves were purely meant as a technique for promoting Michael Jackson's image.

The publicist went on saying that as years passed this technique was becoming too traditional and ineffective, which made them to start coming up with new techniques for promoting his image in a more effective way.

When the song is listened to with its music video in mind.

But these songs that he wrote tie with his inner thoughts and true beliefs (on that subject) that he expressed also to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach.

Michael Jackson made sweeping statements about women by generally portraying them as selfish, manipulative, cunning, or even evil.

You can also check the Bible example that the singer mentioned in those tapes.
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Dirty Diana is a masterpiece. Anyone who says it's Michael's "worst single" should resign from their job as a critic with immediate effect
 
dam2040 said:
Is Frenzy actually an MJ fan? A lot of the posts are full of tabloid source BS
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Yeah, I'm getting real tired of the posts filled with so called facts and no sources provided if I'm honest. Constantly posting like you're a news publication and not a person is very off putting. Especially when there's no sources even provided for anything you claim.

It's also almost all negative stuff as well.
 
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dam2040 said:
Is Frenzy actually an MJ fan? A lot of the posts are full of tabloid source BS
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That's what I've been wondering ever since I joined this forum and it is getting tiring. I've never seen him post anything positive about Michael and every time he creates a thread he tends to denigrate him and always talks about some false rumours or theories which are not based in fact, at all.

Going back to this ridiculous topic: writing negative songs about particular women and about particular situations in which certain women are involved does not mean that one's perception of all women, or even most women, is negative!

How is he portraying women in a bad light in TWYMMF? Tatiana was playing hard to get but you can even see her laughing and smiling at some point and eventually, she hugs him at the end. There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong about a man trying to "serenade" his love interest and get her attention as long as she doesn't seem to be intimidated or frightened in any way. This has been happening since forever.

How about other songs he wrote about women which you didn't mention, Frenzy?

-I Just Can't Stop Loving You
-Liberian Girl
-The Girl Is Mine
-P.Y.T (Demo)
-Remember The Time
-Beautiful Girl
-Love Never Felt So Good
-Loving You
-Lovely One
-The Way You Love Me
 
dethorro said:
That's what I've been wondering ever since I joined this forum and it is getting tiring. I've never seen him post anything positive about Michael and every time he creates a thread he tends to denigrate him and always talks about some false rumours or theories which are not based in fact, at all.

Going back to this ridiculous topic: writing negative songs about particular women and about particular situations in which certain women are involved does not mean that one's perception of all women, or even most women, is negative!

How is he portraying women in a bad light in TWYMMF? Tatiana was playing hard to get but you can even see her laughing and smiling at some point and eventually, she hugs him at the end. There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong about a man trying to "serenade" his love interest and get her attention as long as she doesn't seem to be intimidated or frightened in any way. This has been happening since forever.

How about other songs he wrote about women which you didn't mention, Frenzy?

-I Just Can't Stop Loving You
-Liberian Girl
-The Girl Is Mine
-P.Y.T (Demo)
-Remember The Time
-Beautiful Girl
-Love Never Felt So Good
-Loving You
-Lovely One
-The Way You Love Me
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Someone put your hand out
Fly away
For all time

And list goes on
 
dethorro said:
How is he portraying women in a bad light in TWYMMF? Tatiana was playing hard to get but you can even see her laughing and smiling at some point and eventually, she hugs him at the end. There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong about a man trying to "serenade" his love interest and get her attention as long as she doesn't seem to be intimidated or frightened in any way. This has been happening since forever.
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Michael Jackson does extremely suggestive sexual gestures towards the female character played by Tatiana Thumbtzen, especially in the beginning of that music video.

He then persistently follows her, and he keeps trying to corner her in a very dark part of the city (appropriate cinematography was also used for that).

Her friends realized that and throughout the entire music video they try to help her via certain methods.

For instance, at one point they form a protective circle around her so as to protect her from him.

It appears that Michael Jackson realized later these negative and dark notions of that music video, which seems to explain why he decided to perform it in a rather playful way (such as, HIStory Tour, MSG 2001).
 
mj_frenzy said:
Michael Jackson does extremely suggestive sexual gestures towards the female character played by Tatiana Thumbtzen, especially in the beginning of that music video.

He then persistently follows her, and he keeps trying to corner her in a very dark part of the city (appropriate cinematography was also used for that).

Her friends realized that and throughout the entire music video they try to help her via certain methods.

For instance, at one point they form a protective circle around her so as to protect her from him.

It appears that Michael Jackson realized later these negative and dark notions of that music video, which seems to explain why he decided to perform it in a rather playful way (such as, HIStory Tour, MSG 2001).
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My interpretation of the video is totally different. A guy likes a girl (you knock me off of my feet), she is playing hard to get though she secretly likes him too. He goes after her. She meets up with her friends. Now the group of girls challenges the group of boys. They dance around. In the end the guy disappears, now challenging the girl's true feelings, and the girl who secretly likes him starts looking around for him. He comes back and they kiss. That's a simple romcom movie for you.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Bob Jones (the singer's long-time publicist) stated that these philanthropic moves were purely meant as a technique for promoting Michael Jackson's image.



Michael Jackson made sweeping statements about women by generally portraying them as selfish, manipulative, cunning, or even evil.
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So, uhm...how do these two go together in your mind?
 
What I will never understand is "fans" who like to assume the absolute worst when it comes to Michael's intentions. Is it possible to have a critical discussion of Michael's work without denigrating his character? I certainly think so. Any other approach is akin to kicking a person who has already been kicked his entire life. We can treat him with respect while also analyzing and critiquing his art. That shouldn't be so difficult.
 
staywild23 said:
What I will never understand is "fans" who like to assume the absolute worst when it comes to Michael's intentions. Is it possible to have a critical discussion of Michael's work without denigrating his character? I certainly think so. Any other approach is akin to kicking a person who has already been kicked his entire life. We can treat him with respect while also analyzing and critiquing his art. That shouldn't be so difficult.
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The same rules that applies to every other human doesn't apply to Michael. It often falls under the guise of "keeping it real" when it's really just personal attacks.
 
dethorro said:
How about other songs he wrote about women which you didn't mention, Frenzy?

-I Just Can't Stop Loving You
-Liberian Girl
-The Girl Is Mine
-P.Y.T (Demo)
-Remember The Time
-Beautiful Girl
-Love Never Felt So Good
-Loving You
-Lovely One
-The Way You Love Me
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How dare you, this doesn’t fit the narrative of misogyny!
 
Hiker said:
Told you it's ART! Unfortunately you don't have the eye to appreciate it.
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I don’t know hiker, I’m a bit worried if I eat a spoonful of that plate that my face might start ressembling all the colors in that dish
 
filmandmusic said:
I don’t know hiker, I’m a bit worried if I eat a spoonful of that plate that my face might start ressembling all the colors in that dish
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You don't eat the plate silly 😜. You eat the cake that's on it. I made the cake and icing from scratch just did not know how to spread it properly 😃, hence it became a piece of modern art. You are so silly 🙃
 
I see it as Michael writing stories about a character, his songs such as Dangerous and their themes are much more fun and danceable than his ballads
 
mj_frenzy said:
There is also the 'Dirty Diana' song (not an outtake of course) but with a similar theme to that one.

'Dirty Diana' has been described as a sexist and a misogynist song, and by some music critics even as his worst single ever.
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David Lee Roth: music critics like Elvis Costello because they look like Elvis Costello. ;)

Are these the same critics who praise artists like N.W.A., Rolling Stones, Tupac Shakur, Eminem, & Johnny Cash. Johnny Cash has Folsom County Blues where he talks about shooting a man "just to watch him die". The Stones has Brown Sugar which is about making out with a Black slave woman. They also have Some Girls. There's Fleetwood Mac and their 1970s soap opera songs about each other, they're also a band critics praise. Tupac has Hit Em Up where he claims he slept with Biggie's wife Faith Evans and also puts down Lil Kim & Puff Daddy who were also in Biggie's camp. Eminem has songs trashing his mother and his ex-wife Kim. Yet Rolling Stone magazine called Eminem "The King of Hip Hop". Even Beyoncé, who is close to having more Grammys than anyone else, has Nasty Girl with Destiny's Child. Which is ironic, considering how she dresses now, lol. N.W.A. had the highest grossing biopic before the Queen one passed it up and they have songs like Automobile. Silk Sonic is a recent group that is praised and they have Smokin' Out The Window. I think it's supposed to be a funny song, but still it's not really positive.
 
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