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Michael & Prince - Duality

  • Thread starter Dangerous Incorporated
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redcrush said:
Probably the fact that Prince was rapping maybe?
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He was doing that on early songs like Sexuality, Irresistible Bitch, All The Critics Love U In New York, & Annie Christian. There is also a song he does with Vanity 6 called When A Girl Answers (Don't Hang Up). They all came out between 1981-1983. Rap has existed for decades before it became popular or even had a name. Check out 1960s songs like Here Comes The Judge by Pigmeat Markham or Underdog by Sly & The Family Stone.
 
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DuranDuran said:
He was doing that on early songs like Sexuality, Irresistible Bitch, All The Critics Love U In New York, & Annie Christian. There is also a song he does with Vanity 6 called When A Girl Answers (Don't Hang Up). They all came out between 1981-1983. Rap has existed for decades before it became popular or even had a name. Check out 1960s songs like Here Comes The Judge by Pigmeat Markham or Underdog by Sly & The Family Stone.
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Maybe I'm just tone deaf, but it sounds to me that Sexy MF is the closest one, out all the Prince songs you just listed, where he is definitely rapping to a beat, a much more funk/r&b sound that is reminiscent to hip hop. Considering the musical climate at the time it is not totally left field to acknowledge that Prince was, probably, influenced by it for his music in the early 90s. He has rapped before, but the style seems way different to me in Sexy MF rather than in some of his earlier works.

I also understand that rap didn't magically appear when Rapper's Delight was recorded though as it has its history rooted back in Africa, but thanks for the one by Pigmeat Markham. It's been a real long time since I've heard that song.
 
^^^^But the hip hop that was popular around the time of Sexy MF wasn't really JB funk or disco based liked the early Grandmaster Flash or Kurtis Blow days. It was more New Jack Swing like Father MC & Heavy D, sound collages like Public Enemy or Paul's Boutique era Beastie Boys, or gangsta G Funk like Geto Boys & NWA. The pop rappers like Tone Loc & Vanilla Ice was using Van Halen & David Bowie samples. Then there were the "backpack rap" acts like Digable Planets, De La Soul, Arrested Development, & PM Dawn. I don't see the average early 1990s hip hop fans listening to something like Jughead, Call The Law, or My Name Is Prince, lol. So if Prince was trying to reach that audience, he would have found a real rapper and not Tony M or TC Ellis. He also would have gotten rid of the Mayte, Diamond, & Pearl types and used the usual big booty hoochie girls that were common in rap videos.
 
DuranDuran said:
^^^^But the hip hop that was popular around the time of Sexy MF wasn't really JB funk or disco based liked the early Grandmaster Flash or Kurtis Blow days. It was more New Jack Swing like Father MC & Heavy D, sound collages like Public Enemy or Paul's Boutique era Beastie Boys, or gangsta G Funk like Geto Boys & NWA. The pop rappers like Tone Loc & Vanilla Ice was using Van Halen & David Bowie samples. Then there were the "backpack rap" acts like Digable Planets, De La Soul, Arrested Development, & PM Dawn. I don't see the average early 1990s hip hop fans listening to something like Jughead, Call The Law, or My Name Is Prince, lol. So if Prince was trying to reach that audience, he would have found a real rapper and not Tony M or TC Ellis. He also would have gotten rid of the Mayte, Diamond, & Pearl types and used the usual big booty hoochie girls that were common in rap videos.
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As showcased in his works, in general, Prince does things, but he does them in his own way & his own style. I mean...Prince could do a lot of things differently, but he doesn't because he's Prince and Prince does things his way. Also, Prince never really, outwardly, follows a lot of trends. While the influence from them is there, it is more w/a Prince spin to them. I mean...he got a rapper didn't he? That, in itself, is already a prime example of the influence of hip hop had in his music. The questioning of the rapper's street cred or whether his style was 'hard' enough is insignificant at this point & was not that big of an issue. I mean LL Cool J was having a significant amount of success at this point in time & so was MCHammer. I'm looking at the time frame of 1989-1991.

On first listen to Sexy MF Prince is rapping on a beat. This is obvious as Prince has never done this before. It is 1991 & hip hop has gained significant dominance. Prince may not, exactly, be targeting the hardcore rap fans, but pop rap is really popular at this time and there's a huge demographic awakening to this phenomenon. Again, I find Prince flirting with it, but not really going all out and taking it all the way there, because Prince doesn't really do that.


DuranDuran said:
He also would have gotten rid of the Mayte, Diamond, & Pearl types and used the usual big booty hoochie girls that were common in rap videos.
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I don't agree with this. Prince is known for being one of the many significant factors for the objectification of women in his music and his videos. He is one of the most significant influences/contributors for that "big booty hoochie girl" element in hip hop. Groups such as 2 Live Crew took it one step further and then Gangsta' rap came into play and the rest is history. Prince is just as guilty for that even though he never went as far as those after him.
 
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redcrush said:
As showcased in his works, in general, Prince does things, but he does them in his own way & his own style. I mean...Prince could do a lot of things differently, but he doesn't because he's Prince and Prince does things his way. Also, Prince never really, outwardly, follows a lot of trends. While the influence from them is there, it is more w/a Prince spin to them. I mean...he got a rapper didn't he? That, in itself, is already a prime example of the influence of hip hop had in his music. The questioning of the rapper's street cred or whether his style was 'hard' enough is insignificant at this point & was not that big of an issue. I mean LL Cool J was having a significant amount of success at this point in time & so was MCHammer. I'm looking at the time frame of 1989-1991.

On first listen to Sexy MF Prince is rapping on a beat. This is obvious as Prince has never done this before. It is 1991 & hip hop has gained significant dominance. Prince may not, exactly, be targeting the hardcore rap fans, but pop rap is really popular at this time and there's a huge demographic awakening to this phenomenon. Again, I find Prince flirting with it, but not really going all out and taking it all the way there, because Prince doesn't really do that.




I don't agree with this. Prince is known for being one of the many significant factors for the objectification of women in his music and his videos. He is one of the most significant influences/contributors for that "big booty hoochie girl" element in hip hop. Groups such as 2 Live Crew took it one step further and then Gangsta' rap came into play and the rest is history. Prince is just as guilty for that even though he never went as far as those after him.
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The women in Prince's videos/movies are not much different than the ones in Motley Crue, Loverboy, & Whitesnake videos of the time except the ones with Prince tend to be Hispanic rather than blond caucasians. They don't have much in common physically with the girls in 2 Live Crew videos, who were usually dark skinned sistas. As far as the getting a rapper, Tony M is not a rapper, he's just a dancer. He was a background dancer in Purple Rain during one of The Time's songs and later had a small speaking role in Graffiti Bridge, which again he was just a dancer. Prince just gets people to do stuff they usually don't do, because he can have more control over them. Neither Vanity, Appolonia, Mayte, or Carmen Electra were singers before getting with Prince, but he made albums for them. He never made albums for the more stronger singers in his bands like Bonnie Boyer or Rosie Gaines, who were full figured. They were also professional singers & musicians before working with Prince and not models or actresses like the others. It's the same with Tony M. After Prince got rid of Tony, no label was scrambling to sign him, lol. Prince also made Carmen Electra a rap album. I guess Carmen as a rapper didn't go over well.
 
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DuranDuran said:
Sexy MF is basically a James Brown style groove, it doesn't have anything to do with hip hop.
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I didn't necessarily talk about the music, but the video and the image that represented. Remember, we were talking about whether Prince was trying to appeal to the hip-hop generation. To me that video looked like a rather typical "hood" video from the early 90s.
 
redcrush said:
As showcased in his works, in general, Prince does things, but he does them in his own way & his own style. I mean...Prince could do a lot of things differently, but he doesn't because he's Prince and Prince does things his way. Also, Prince never really, outwardly, follows a lot of trends. While the influence from them is there, it is more w/a Prince spin to them. I mean...he got a rapper didn't he? That, in itself, is already a prime example of the influence of hip hop had in his music. The questioning of the rapper's street cred or whether his style was 'hard' enough is insignificant at this point & was not that big of an issue. I mean LL Cool J was having a significant amount of success at this point in time & so was MCHammer. I'm looking at the time frame of 1989-1991.

On first listen to Sexy MF Prince is rapping on a beat. This is obvious as Prince has never done this before. It is 1991 & hip hop has gained significant dominance. Prince may not, exactly, be targeting the hardcore rap fans, but pop rap is really popular at this time and there's a huge demographic awakening to this phenomenon. Again, I find Prince flirting with it, but not really going all out and taking it all the way there, because Prince doesn't really do that.




I don't agree with this. Prince is known for being one of the many significant factors for the objectification of women in his music and his videos. He is one of the most significant influences/contributors for that "big booty hoochie girl" element in hip hop. Groups such as 2 Live Crew took it one step further and then Gangsta' rap came into play and the rest is history. Prince is just as guilty for that even though he never went as far as those after him.
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Well said. I agree. This is what I was trying to say, only you said it better. To me it's undeniable that in that video at least Prince was influenced by the hip-hop culture. That doesn't mean he had to copy every element of it and had to make a hard core hip-hop/rap song. That's not what I was talking about. But he was definitely influenced and IMO he was also trying to appeal to that new audience.
 
TTD speaks a little on Mike & Prince in this 1993 interview on Arsenio Hall.
[youtube]0tojcW2kLWc[/youtube]
 
Very interesting. I always liked to read articles about Michael and Prince. I respect Prince, but, imo, he was/is kinda full of himself.

I once heard that Michael watched the Purple Rain movie. After watching he said "He (Prince) isn't a good actor" and that was his opinion about that movie, lol!
 
"The Artist"

I wonder why there is a Prince symbol on the proposed new Mike album cover.
 
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^^^^That has already been posted in this thread already, and also in the 2300 Jackson St. section.
 
Re: "The Artist"

DuranDuran said:
I wonder why there is a Prince symbol on the proposed new Mike album cover.[/IMG][/URL]
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Because the artist was showing not only the history of Michael, but all the people who had a significant part of his life and career. Prince was one of them.

Bet you that the artist left out Madonna.
 
Re: "The Artist"

redcrush said:
Because the artist was showing not only the history of Michael, but all the people who had a significant part of his life and career. Prince was one of them.

Bet you that the artist left out Madonna.
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But the symbol is a registered trademark, so I wonder if Prince gave his permission to Sony. That seems unlikely, given his views on record companies.
 
Re: "The Artist"

DuranDuran said:
But the symbol is a registered trademark, so I wonder if Prince gave his permission to Sony. That seems unlikely, given his views on record companies.
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Doubt since it's been removed recently. I knew that one was never going to fly.
 
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This doesn't sound right, the songs are 2 different tempos. :D
[youtube]2s04cRmn7p8[/youtube]
 
Prince gets sometimes extremely weird but he's got the humour..
 
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