jasmine.uddin
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I'm sorry you feel this way.
I am always happy to engage with fellow MJ fans even if they hold a different perspective.
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'Michael should have 'just closed' the gates of Neverland after the '93 extortion attempt' Thoughts?
- Thread starter Victorious
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I am always happy to engage with fellow MJ fans even if they hold a different perspective.
kelley
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You didn't address anything i said after I dedicated several minutes writing a response to you. You just repeated your own talking points. So I wasted my time.
jasmine.uddin
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I appreciate that you have chosen to engage with me again.
Sometimes, the time I have affects how I choose to respond, but it was still a response even if it didn't pass your criteria for a valid one. If you would like to continue the discussion, message me privately, I would be happy to continue through private messages as I don't want to derail this thread further.
Otherwise, we can just leave it to the fact that we have very different views on this topic, and agree to disagree respectfully.
Peter_Pan
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Michael made two $50 mil investment in the late 80's. The ATV and the Ranch.
ATV got him 4x plus by 95, and in 30years time over 20x. The ranch on the other hand isn't even worth it's 50mil monetary worth even today.
Both the Ranch and the catalogue created innumerable problems for him. But owning the catalogue was a lucrative problem to have, rather than the financial bleeding that was the ranch.
ATV got him 4x plus by 95, and in 30years time over 20x. The ranch on the other hand isn't even worth it's 50mil monetary worth even today.
Both the Ranch and the catalogue created innumerable problems for him. But owning the catalogue was a lucrative problem to have, rather than the financial bleeding that was the ranch.
StarlightXX
Proud Member
I disagree - I think Michael did the right thing by not being intimidated to close Neverland Ranch in 1993. He made the Ranch to reside in for life and also provide escapism for sick children.
By not closing the Ranch, he made a statement that he had good intentions and will not be intimidated by accusations.
Though I'm afraid he was broken beyond doubt after the 2005 trial and felt it had to end.
By not closing the Ranch, he made a statement that he had good intentions and will not be intimidated by accusations.
Though I'm afraid he was broken beyond doubt after the 2005 trial and felt it had to end.
PrinceLucien
Love is the utmost truth at the heart of creation.
No. Closing the ranch would have meant sacrificing the beautiful safe haven that he built for himself and the children in need. When evil tries to destroy your foundations, you remain strong and grounded and trust that God will handle the rest.
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Yeah probably, instead he was inevitably forced to do THIS IS IT to keep it running and killing himself through his addiction and over excretion. Instead of selling the place and being around to father his children. He was terrible with his money in the end. The place was tainted and a cash drain.
Really not appreciated to leave his children with no one and no cash to boot. That’s just poor parenting but I don’t blame him his mental was probably abysmal plus he didn’t have an idea of what a good parent should be. He thought shopping and drugs was the answer. Sadly it never is.
Really not appreciated to leave his children with no one and no cash to boot. That’s just poor parenting but I don’t blame him his mental was probably abysmal plus he didn’t have an idea of what a good parent should be. He thought shopping and drugs was the answer. Sadly it never is.
PrinceLucien
Love is the utmost truth at the heart of creation.
I know that this rage bait. I’m only posting this reply to fact check.
First and foremost, Neverland was already closed before This Is It. Mr. Jackson entered an agreement with a company to co-own the property.
He wrote the transfer of guardianship for his children in his will. Michael’s mother was given a monthly family allowance to help her care for the children.
As for the shopping and “drugs” let me ask you something…how many people in the world do you think are in debt? Or suffer from serious medical conditions? Of course the answer is many.
“My daddy is the best daddy in the world.” -Paris Jackson
That quote from one of his children says everything you need to know about him.
I appreciate you fact-checking the timeline and details about the estate planning.
You are correct that Neverland was already transferred before This Is It, and that he had established guardianship and a trust for his children.
The love Paris expresses for her father is the an important testimony about their relationship.
My point was not to dismiss that love, but to express sadness about the broader tragedy.
A man who clearly adored his children was caught in a severe financial and medical crisis. The pressure of his debts, despite his valuable assets, pushed him into the grueling This Is It commitment. His physical and mental state, worsened by chronic pain and addiction, simply could not withstand that pressure.
His immense wealth granted him access to top medical care, but in his case, that system failed him and enabled his decline.
The real disappointment lies in seeing how a perfect storm of extreme fame, financial strain, and a broken support system conspired to take a loving father from his children far too soon. We can acknowledge the deep bond he shared with them while also recognising the tragic circumstances that led to his absence.
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MJ TinkerBell
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@Euan
I am quite offended by your comments and lack of empathy and respect for Michael on HIS FAN SITE?I am not sure what your disrespectful comments and biased judgement of someone that had some painful struggles and who are you to judge anyone's parenting skills when you are not a PARENT?
Are you a TRUE Michael Jackson fan because I am 1000% sure you sounded like a hater and I could not tell the difference by your uinsensitive criticisms of him honestly!
I would love to see your perfect GLASS house and I would love to see how you would feel if someone KNEW your stuggles and decided to post to a page where your fans are, oh right SADLY you don't have any, nevermind
PrinceLucien
Love is the utmost truth at the heart of creation.
No need to thank me. I was simply stating the truth. Knowledge is the bliss of life that makes the world go round.
You know. As someone who lives by the Bible. I will tell you something that Jesus once said.
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”
This is something that I feel we should all live by. One does not have to be religious to avoid hypocritical and superficial judgements. Please don’t try to save face when your commentaries were clearly a form of social predation in accordance with your own personal feelings of love, grief and anger towards an icon that is universally admired and respected by many.
Michael was murdered. It’s not about “a system that failed him” it’s a whole conspiracy that was carried out by his doctor. Point blank period.
StarlightXX
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Who would have wanted to murder Michael? Even during his life and trials, no one was really out to get him because of his fame and status. Michael's death was an accident that was aggravated by his doctor's negligence.
SmoothCriminal1984
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Are u for real??? Its obvious he was murdered peopke wanted his catalouge
MJ TinkerBell
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I just wanted to make sure this is not some kind a joke! If you are seriously asking this question?
1.It must because you didn't do any research at all about Michael Jackson and the million times he said he was terrified for his life because they wanted that ATV Catalogue back into their hands!
2.Or you do not know Michael Jackson at all, except for what trash you read and you are wanting to know the TRUTH?
Which is it? FYI ignorance is not a defence when you post about MY KING!
Because Michael is not a LIA!R and everything he said was happening to him WAS HAPPENING to him!
You should really EDUCATE yourself by asking respectful questions so that you will actually get the real answers so YOU will know what you are talking about when you come to HIS FAN SITE and post misguided information that has no truth in it about someone that is loved by his LOYAL worldwide fans that come here!
frfr
#applehead24
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Don’t you think that instead of getting upset it would be better to gently guide and correct? I don’t want to be that person who’s like “Michael wouldn’t have wanted this” but it’s really upsetting to see soldiers of love come in and shoot at their own people. Everyone gets things wrong from time to time, wouldn’t it be a good time to gently educate? Arguing like this can make it really hard to enjoy the fandom. As much as I like to joke about it, violence (in this case via words) is not the answer.
PrinceLucien
Love is the utmost truth at the heart of creation.
Of course that’s the only part of my message you wanted to focus on. I’m not interested in arguing about this. Michael has said many times before he died that he felt someone was going to kill him. It was discernment. Reputable doctors don’t overdose patients by accident. No one was in the room, how do we know what truly happened?
PrinceLucien
Love is the utmost truth at the heart of creation.
That’s entirely fine. I wasn’t trying to convert you, just share a little wisdom. Michael followed Jesus, do you even remotely know anything about the person you’re talking smack about? Your blatant disrespect is out of line.oh yeah I’m outta here
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PrinceLucien
Love is the utmost truth at the heart of creation.
We can try to gently guide and correct people, but those who are not willing to listen cannot be helped. There’s a difference between holding someone accountable and aiding in conflict. This person needs to reconcile their positive feelings with their behavior.
Michael was very aware of fair-weather friends and fans that wavered in loyalty. He often used the term, “blood” as a metaphor for media and critics of his life and work who sought to drain him and sabotage his reputation. Blood on the Dance Floor is all about that. I just used, “social predation” in place of it.
“Animals strike not with malice, but because they want to live. It’s the same with people.” -Michael Jackson
If we want the energy here to stay kind and loving, then we need to educate other fans and maintain moral consistency.
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MJ TinkerBell
Proud Member
There is always time to educate IF that is the purpose for a post that is clearly mis-informed like this one I am referring to here IS, and I posted what I needed to say about it. Not sure why you feel this is a "violence (in this case via words)" situation which it is NOT, please do go ahead and educate this member you feel needs the gentle guidance and correction you are describing here in LOVE action!I would honestly love that and we can all learn from it too! HIGH 5! This is L.O.V.E!!
Hugssss
PrinceLucien
Love is the utmost truth at the heart of creation.
Exactly. While the community has a collective responsibility to set standards, true kindness requires honesty. Not superficial avoidance of any issues that may arise during difficult conversations.
I would honestly love that and we can all learn from it too! HIGH 5! This is L.O.V.E!!
Hugssss
I try to imitate Jesus and align myself with Michael’s vision of healing the world. We can all channel this healing energy as individuals by learning and growing together!
i just was stating my opinion. I think it would've been better to stay alive for his children and side line a project, obv in hindsight I realise with his many illnesses and trapped in the cage of fame. It is not as easy as I may make it seem but due to my disability i am very literal sometimes. Not my intention to speak bad but to be honest. People are complex not perfection. I don't judge him I'm just saddened by the whole ordeal and I get attacked for it...
PrinceLucien
Love is the utmost truth at the heart of creation.
I appreciate you clarifying your intent and sharing your perspective. While you are apart of our community and I want you to feel loved, seen and heard– it’s crucial to understand that your post contained very harsh speculation and misinformation.
There is a significant difference between being ‘literal’ and using labels like ‘poor parenting’ or ‘using drugs.’ Those are not opinions. They are harsh judgments that ignore his documented medical history and the immense pressure Michael was under to provide for his children.
And then there’s the comment you made when I shared a quote from Jesus. Which again, wasn’t mentioned to push religion, but highlight a universal principle that Michael himself lived by. I understand that you were uncomfortable, but as the guidelines say, we are a space that respects all backgrounds and to need be careful not to judge others while overlooking our own biases.
To live with truth and grace means looking at the facts of a situation, not just the tabloid version or ‘he said she said’ version of it. As fans, we can acknowledge that Michael was a complex human being without resorting to the same harmful narratives that were used to hurt him when he was alive. I am not attacking you, I’m asking for the ‘moral consistency’ Michael always hoped for from his fans
Understood, sorry I upset youI appreciate you clarifying your intent and sharing your perspective. While you are apart of our community and I want you to feel loved, seen and heard– it’s crucial to understand that your post contained very harsh speculation and misinformation.
There is a significant difference between being ‘literal’ and using labels like ‘poor parenting’ or ‘using drugs.’ Those are not opinions. They are harsh judgments that ignore his documented medical history and the immense pressure Michael was under to provide for his children.
And then there’s the comment you made when I shared a quote from Jesus. Which again, wasn’t mentioned to push religion, but highlight a universal principle that Michael himself lived by. I understand that you were uncomfortable, but as the guidelines say, we are a space that respects all backgrounds and to need be careful not to judge others while overlooking our own biases.
To live with truth and grace means looking at the facts of a situation, not just the tabloid version or ‘he said she said’ version of it. As fans, we can acknowledge that Michael was a complex human being without resorting to the same harmful narratives that were used to hurt him when he was alive. I am not attacking you, I’m asking for the ‘moral consistency’ Michael always hoped for from his fans
Blues_Away2023
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Only the nut jobs believe Michael was murdered.
It’s clear as day that Murray simply fucked up and neglected Michael during the time that he needed to be fully monitored. What he and Michael was doing was wrong and should never have been a solution to get some sleep.
If it wasn’t Murray, Michael would have sought another Doctor who was persuaded by money to agree to something that should never have been done outside a hospital setting.
Michael himself was playing Russian Roulette with his life and he knew it, but he was desperate.
Michael has been sleeping permanently for the past 16 years.
It’s clear as day that Murray simply fucked up and neglected Michael during the time that he needed to be fully monitored. What he and Michael was doing was wrong and should never have been a solution to get some sleep.
If it wasn’t Murray, Michael would have sought another Doctor who was persuaded by money to agree to something that should never have been done outside a hospital setting.
Michael himself was playing Russian Roulette with his life and he knew it, but he was desperate.
Michael has been sleeping permanently for the past 16 years.
SmoothCriminal1984
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You gotta understand though when u cant sleep youre gonna use anything u know that just might work. I know cuz im going through it . Ive triednew diets new meds nothing works
MsAshley
Bryan Loren's Only Fan
Yes. While I understand Michael loved children in an innocent way, it was weird, and the public would never understand. I say this as someone that always wanted to visit Neverland as a kid too. I think he was just very disconnected from reality and continually made bad decisions that soured the public and media's view of them. A lot of it was very unfair and horrible, but some of it was self-inflicted for sure.
It depends what people mean by murder. The medical examiner said it was a homicide, but the DA went with manslaughter. Murray spent an hour not calling for help, but instead someone else on the phone? Did not even try to revive him on the floor... it's all very odd. I recall someone, like 10 years ago, saying Murray admitted to a close friend he did it on purpose because he believed he molested kids (he seems to imply the latter in his book), but I don't recall the source at all. Could just be a tabloid rumor. But what is for certain is how odd his interview responses are between 2011 to 2013. He claimed he didn't know how Michael died, then went onto say Michael killed himself by being a drug addict (going as far to say he gave himself more propofol, which would have been impossible). From there he's said a litany of really terrible things, which beckons the question about his intent given the very strange timeline.
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Blues_Away2023
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The way I see it, if you’re accused once you never allow the opportunity for it to happen again. You keep your guard up at all times.
It should have ended after the Chandler case. We’re talking some of the most disgusting crimes a person can make.
Michael continued to do exactly what he wanted regardless of what the world thought.
The association with kids I don’t like one bit tbh and has unfortunately got him into major trouble and horrible accusations labelled at him.
It should have ended after the Chandler case. We’re talking some of the most disgusting crimes a person can make.
Michael continued to do exactly what he wanted regardless of what the world thought.
The association with kids I don’t like one bit tbh and has unfortunately got him into major trouble and horrible accusations labelled at him.