Michael - The Great Album Debate

I'd be down for a lawsuit. 100%. However, we need people who know what they are doing and are well prepared to step up the plate. Unfortunately I don't see that happening. I wish there was a way.

I've been hoping something would come from what Stella has been hinting at for months, but that too now seems like a dead end. There is no action.
 
I'd be down for a lawsuit. 100%. However, we need people who know what they are doing and are well prepared to step up the plate. Unfortunately I don't see that happening. I wish there was a way.

I've been hoping something would come from what Stella has been hinting at for months, but that too now seems like a dead end. There is no action.

I can't make people move any faster unfortunately. They have such damning stuff but it is not in my place to say as it would be a breach of trust. There are others here who know about this who will know what I'm talking about. And no it doesn't involve Birchey or anything found via way of the internet. It wouldn't be fair to say anything because I didn't do the ground work. Very frustrating. It either needs to come out or we need to move on.
 
Well Stella, I hope something does happen soon and this can end. Bottom line is, a crime has been commited here and something needs to be done.
 
not fair.

they showed an interest in fans concerns by releasing a statement. they did the same in regards to many projects - including Bad DVD. They said they have no intention to release any more songs due to the fan concerns. The 20 seconds was removed from Immortal after fans said no.

so they do acknowledge the concerns, they respond to the concerns and they do things the fans want (such as untouched demos etc).

It might not be what you exactly want or it might not be enough for you, but it's unfair to say they "deliberately" show "no interest in fan concerns".

Ask Stella for example. Ask what happened when he asked a question to Branca in person. If he "deliberately" had "no interest in fan concerns" , he would have walked away without saying a word ,but he didn't.

Not fair? They messed the things up, so all you mentioned above is nothing else but normal to clean their own mess up. They simply haven't cleaned it completely. They are accountable, so if they want respect and make us believe in their good faith there is no single reason not to give out names and release their so called forsenic report. So far the songs have been labeled as MJ and they did absolutely nothing to provide us with any proof whatsoever.

Acting "nice" on their part won't make us forget that they caused a huge rift among the fans right after MJ died. And THAT is not fair, neither for the fans, nor for the biggest pop artist of all time.
 
I can't make people move any faster unfortunately. They have such damning stuff but it is not in my place to say as it would be a breach of trust. There are others here who know about this who will know what I'm talking about. And no it doesn't involve Birchey or anything found via way of the internet. It wouldn't be fair to say anything because I didn't do the ground work. Very frustrating. It either needs to come out or we need to move on.
Yes, not blaming you at all. Whoever these people are need to be the force behind a lawsuit. Or at least they need to do something. Maybe they are still gathering more evidence? There is way too much to deal with for the MJ fan community with having to worry about this as well. Something that should have been over before it even began.
 
I can't make people move any faster unfortunately. They have such damning stuff but it is not in my place to say as it would be a breach of trust. There are others here who know about this who will know what I'm talking about. And no it doesn't involve Birchey or anything found via way of the internet. It wouldn't be fair to say anything because I didn't do the ground work. Very frustrating. It either needs to come out or we need to move on.
I don't know who they are and I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the work anyone has done. But sometimes people just like to hear themselves talk and won't put in the effort to rally others who are like minded to bring it to reality. We have had fans who built an orphanage in Africa and have started a 2nd one in Haiti. We have fans who have rallied fans to buy near 10 thousand Roses for Michael. Those are no small feats. What is the hold up for this secret society. Is it money? Is it securing an attorney? Do they even have an attorney that is advising them? Or are they just still listening to themselves talk. What do they need to move forward and make it happen? What's missing? Leadership ? Fan support?
 
One question - what is easier: for us to go great lengths via lawyers and the court to see the forensic reports or for them to simply show us if they care about us?
 
Bumper, they are going to try to cover their asses at all costs. They won't own up to anything until there is literally no other option.
 
It's funny, but when MJ went on trial, although I was convinced he was innocent, I was more worried about how good his lawyer was going to be than trusting the court dealing with his innocence. Just imagine if his lawyer had been bad? Today's lawsuits ressemble more a poker game than seeking justice.
 
Lawsuits in America: out of control :D

[h=3]Annual Stella Awards [/h]
For those unfamiliar with these awards, they are
named after 81-year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled hot coffee on herself and
successfully sued the McDonald’s in New Mexico , where she purchased coffee.
You remember, she took the lid off the coffee and put it between her knees
while she was driving. Who would ever think one could get burned doing that,
right? That’s right; these are awards for the most outlandish lawsuits and
verdicts in the U.S. You know the kind of cases that make you scratch your
head. So keep your head scratcher handy Here are the Stellas for this past
year — 2012


* SEVENTH PLACE
* Kathleen Robertson of Austin , Texas was awarded $80,000 by a jury of her
peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running
inside a furniture store. The store owners were understandably surprised by
the verdict, considering the running toddler was her own son. Start
scratching!

* SIXTH PLACE *
Carl Truman, 19, of Los Angeles , California
won $74,000 plus medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a
Honda Accord. Truman apparently didn’t notice there was someone at the wheel
of the car when he was trying to steal his neighbor’s hubcaps. Scratch some
more…

* FIFTH PLACE *
Terrence Dickson, of Bristol , Pennsylvania , who
was leaving a house he had just burglarized by way of the garage.
Unfortunately for Dickson, the automatic garage door opener malfunctioned
and he could not get the garage door to open. Worse, he couldn’t re-enter
the house because the door connecting the garage to the house locked when
Dickson pulled it shut. Forced to sit for eight, count ‘em, EIGHT days and
survive on a case of Pepsi and a large bag of dry dog food, he sued the
homeowner’s insurance company claiming undue mental anguish.
Amazingly, the jury said the insurance company must pay Dickson
$500,000 for his anguish. We should all have this kind of anguish Keep
scratching. There are more… Double hand scratching after this one..


* FOURTH PLACE *
Jerry Williams, of Little Rock , Arkansas , garnered 4th
Place in the Stella’s when he was awarded $14,500 plus medical expenses
after being bitten on the butt by his next door neighbor’s beagle – even
though the beagle was on a chain in its owner’s fenced yard. Williams did
not get as much as he asked for because the jury believed the beagle might
have been provoked at the time of the butt bite because Williams had climbed
over the fence into the yard and repeatedly shot the dog with a pellet gun.
Pick a new spot to scratch, you’re getting a bald spot..

* THIRD PLACE *

Amber Carson of Lancaster , Pennsylvania sued a Philadelphia restaurant. A
jury ordered the Philadelphia restaurant to pay her $113,500 after she
slipped on a spilled soft drink and broke her tailbone. The reason the soft
drink was on the floor: Ms. Carson had thrown it at her boyfriend 30 seconds
earlier during an argument. What ever happened to people being responsible
for their own actions? Only two more so ease up on the scratching…

*SECOND PLACE*

Kara Walton, of Claymont , Delaware sued the owner of a
night club in a nearby city because she fell from the bathroom window to the
floor, knocking out her two front teeth. Even though Ms. Walton was trying
to sneak through the ladies room window to avoid paying the $3.50 cover
charge, the jury said the night club had to pay her $12,000….oh, yeah,
plus dental expenses. Go figure. Ok.
Here we go!! Drum roll …

* FIRST PLACE *

This year’s runaway First
Place Stella Award winner was: Mrs. Merv Grazinski of Oklahoma City,
Oklahoma, who purchased a new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On her first
trip home, from an OU football game, having driven on to the freeway, she
set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the driver’s seat to go to
the back of the Winnebago to make herself a sandwich not surprisingly, the
motor home left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Also not surprisingly,
Mrs. Grazinski sued Winnebago for not putting in the owners manual that she
couldn’t actually leave the driver’s seat while the cruise control was set.
The Oklahoma jury awarded her, are you sitting down? $1,750,000 PLUS a new
motor home.
Winnebago actually changed their manuals as a result of this suit, just in
case Mrs. Grazinski has any relatives who might also buy a motor home. If
you think the court system is out of control and America has lost ALL common
sense, be sure to pass this one on!!!
 
Not fair? They messed the things up, so all you mentioned above is nothing else but normal to clean their own mess up. They simply haven't cleaned it completely. They are accountable, so if they want respect and make us believe in their good faith there is no single reason not to give out names and release their so called forsenic report. So far the songs have been labeled as MJ and they did absolutely nothing to provide us with any proof whatsoever.

My point is still the same : It might not be what you exactly want or it might not be enough for you, but it's unfair to say they "deliberately" show "no interest in fan concerns".

I don't know who they are and I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the work anyone has done. But sometimes people just like to hear themselves talk and won't put in the effort to rally others who are like minded to bring it to reality. We have had fans who built an orphanage in Africa and have started a 2nd one in Haiti. We have fans who have rallied fans to buy near 10 thousand Roses for Michael. Those are no small feats. What is the hold up for this secret society. Is it money? Is it securing an attorney? Do they even have an attorney that is advising them? Or are they just still listening to themselves talk. What do they need to move forward and make it happen? What's missing? Leadership ? Fan support?

I agree with this. When Stella first mentioned it I was intrigued but now I can't help wonder if it's just a wishful thinking of a small group of people. If they have any evidence, why the silence? Why are they waiting? Lawsuit , statue of limitations is going to run out. I can ask a million questions. I wonder how realistic is this attempt. For example look there are people out there who signs petitions for a FBI investigation or hopes HTWF lawsuit will result in removal of Branca. there are small groups of people that are working on those but neither one is possible in reality.

One question - what is easier: for us to go great lengths via lawyers and the court to see the forensic reports or for them to simply show us if they care about us?

The easier would be they are showing the reports. The reality however they won't. As I said I asked them just a month or so after the album release and they said such reports are their proprietary information.

So there is only a few choices here : Be realistic and realize that they won't share it with fans no matter how much you ask or complain - that leaves you with two choices

- either forget about it / stop asking & move on
- or take matters at your hands and put them in a position that they are required to produce it - through a lawsuit discovery phase

hypotheticals are endless, we could do a million of "could have should have would have" but reality is only one.
 
And I wouldn't put the blame on Sony/Estate like they were something devilish. They are acting like any other corporate body. It is a professional behaviour which is typically in todays's industry. They are simply following specific rules of business about public relations. They only communicate with the public if there's something for them to gain, typically a product on sale. All other communications are limited to legal obligations to inform (in our case they informed us there was an investigation and authentification).

Making the forensic tests public would just bring back the talk about why they were done in the first place and there will always be people that will dismiss them - even when other experts confirm them.
Just think about Michael being called a pedophile: Did the 2005 acquittal stop the accusations? Nope. Take the recent Wade Robson BS for example and you'll see how much the media is still treating MJ like a pedophile: that story will always work. If these tests cannot be contested, would it stop everyone calling the songs fake? Absolutely not. Some people have admitted they would not care about such tests.

So I disagree with Bumper saying they would have no reason for not showing them and I especially disagree with "could do good to everyone".
 
^^

I agree with Korgnex. Bumper and I spent a lot time discussing about the tests - how he did not believe them to be good enough, how we did not know what they tested to start with. So I fail to see how releasing a test that says "it's Michael" would make any difference. Wouldn't such test be automatically rejected?
 
Those type of tests are not conclusve anyway. To be honest it doesn't matter because I don't believe they ever took place. All of a sudden from nowhere it was "we've done tests" but nobody ever saw any evidence of this. I'm talking people behind the scenes, not fans. The only thing they ever provided was that statement which contains outright lies.
 
That statement contains LIES. They should be ashamed. Unbelievable how they can sleep at night.
 
I will never move on Ivy. To me they deliberately do not fully cooperate with fans.

Showing the report, would at least make us understand how the voice/tracks were analyzed and how they came to conclusion that it is MJ.
 
instead of wasting $$$ of 10,000 roses for MJ. why dont we put that money to good use and find out more about the Cascio tracks. Roses die. The information will exist forever.
 
I will never move on Ivy. To me they deliberately do not fully cooperate with fans.

Showing the report, would at least make us understand how the voice/tracks were analyzed and how they came to conclusion that it is MJ.

I realize you won't move on. I just wish you accepted reality and arranged your expectations accordingly. That's all.
 
Ask Stella for example. Ask what happened when he asked a question to Branca in person. If he "deliberately" had "no interest in fan concerns" , he would have walked away without saying a word ,but he didn't.

What did he say? Sorry I missed it.
 
I realize you won't move on. I just wish you accepted reality and arranged your expectations accordingly. That's all.

I do accept the reality Ivy, I just don't agree with the law of the strongest imposing that reality. But I won't move on, I am extremely patient and confident that one day or another this "reality" will backfire on those who imposed it on us. Be sure that I will be waiting around the corner.
 
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Maybe when we get to 3000 pages this thread can finally be closed.
 
I don't think this thread will ever be closed. I don't think it should either, everyday there's someone out there just now discovering Michaels music, other than the hit records that have been played all over the world an uncountable number of times. Everyday there's going to be someone who experiences the Michael album for the first time and will hear those songs and quite possibly be duped into believing the 3 Cascio tracks are Michael Jackson. This thread is for them, now.
 
I don't think this thread will ever be closed. I don't think it should either, everyday there's someone out there just now discovering Michaels music, other than the hit records that have been played all over the world an uncountable number of times. Everyday there's going to be someone who experiences the Michael album for the first time and will hear those songs and quite possibly be duped into believing the 3 Cascio tracks are Michael Jackson. This thread is for them, now.
That's why it should be public for everyone to find easily, which is not the case.
 
This thread has no chance of closing until some truth is exposed, whether it be on the Malachi or Michael side. Besides, if the admins WERE to close the thread, Cascio discussion would spread into other threads (even though it already does).
 
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