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Michael - The Great Album Debate

I wrote my answer yesterday and then lost it. :(

Aniram said:
So, according to your theory, wouldn't Malachi get better on the Cascio tracks and sound less choppy?
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yes but not overnight such training takes time and malachi's most recent releases still has that issue.

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
But, based only on that argument it is impoosible to conclude if we are talking about the same person or two different people.
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and I didn't say it was conclusive. every comparison video is followed with why don't you hear that question. It was my "why".

In case of Malachi vs Cascio style, you already pointed out that voice can be processed in such a way to

1) either give the flow by eliminating the blank between chopped words or chop the words by inserting blanks.
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I'm not sure if flow can be given that easily I have to ask it around and what I'm talking about isn't a compression or speed up.

and even if they did went between the words and eliminated blanks wouldn't that be extensive processing?

2) the singer can deliberately choose to chop the words for the pace sake or sing them with flow.

In my opinion, it is not a question of capacity, but of the singer's choice or even studio processing.
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I agree partially but the issue is why there aren't any examples of Malachi with the flow? So I'm not sure if he has that capacity to be honest and that has been my feeling about him for several years now. As I always said I believe Malachi is overrated.

Isn't it a bit too much of a coincidence that not only so far all the vocals that have been compared are characterized by the same timbre, but the melody is quasi the same in the part I pointed out?
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Like I said if it's a common chord order it can be found in multiple songs. and isn't monster turned into a faster pace and new music is written / recorded afterwards? so my question is who wrote that when?


Aniram said:
Also ivy, saying "Cascio singer" kind of makes it seem like you doubt the vocals are really Michael.
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already explained this before. I never said lead vocals were 100% Michael plus using a neutral term such as "Cascio singer" keeps the discussion less hostile.
 
You know that all these Cascio songs were James Porte demos, right? Which means that Jason had to record over what James had already sung, which is the flow you are talking about. If Jason worked with James Porte earlier with Jason's two albums, maybe you'd hear this "flow" you're talking about. I'm still not sure what you mean by it. I sometimes think it's something you're just... imagining, you know?
 
ivy said:
I wrote my answer yesterday and then lost it. :(



yes but not overnight such training takes time and malachi's most recent releases still has that issue.



and I didn't say it was conclusive. every comparison video is followed with why don't you hear that question. It was my "why".



I'm not sure if flow can be given that easily I have to ask it around and what I'm talking about isn't a compression or speed up.

and even if they did went between the words and eliminated blanks wouldn't that be extensive processing?



I agree partially but the issue is why there aren't any examples of Malachi with the flow? So I'm not sure if he has that capacity to be honest and that has been my feeling about him for several years now. As I always said I believe Malachi is overrated.



Like I said if it's a common chord order it can be found in multiple songs. and isn't monster turned into a faster pace and new music is written / recorded afterwards? so my question is who wrote that when?




already explained this before. I never said lead vocals were 100% Michael plus using a neutral term such as "Cascio singer" keeps the discussion less hostile.
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I still think that the flow is the wrong route Ivy.

The singer can determine whether to chop the words or not. If you listen to "beat it", dirty diana", "who is it" or many other MJ's songs you'll hear him deliberately chopping words for the rhythm purposes.

No matter the flow or the chopped style, MJ's voice sounds powerful. Unfortunately that powerful voice, I can't hear it on the Cascio tracks.

By the way, "breaking news" is quite chopped.

Here's a song where JM sings without chopping as much as in faster songs. But I am sure that Pentum, who holds a PhD in Jasonmalachology can provide you with more unchopped songs, he knows him by heart, even when the vocals are reversed and you hear them backwards + with added echo. Trust me, I did a test, Pentum can sniff a single second of Malachi's voice backwards --or not-- and tell you which songs it comes from.

[youtube]DQkWq5OTcak[/youtube]
 
Maybe I'd find some songs, if i knew what specifically to look out for! :D

Ivy, I'm wodering. Where is your "flow" when you change the tempo on Monster to -4 ?
 
Pentum said:
Maybe I'd find some songs, if i knew what specifically to look out for! :D
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Ivy's point that JM sings always in a chopped way.

For example when MJ sings songs such as:

"Beat It"
"Dirty Diana"
"Who is it"
"Why you wanna trip on me" etc.

Jason Malachi does it with

"Let me let go"
"Hydraulix"
"Room 2 breathe" etc.

But Ivy's point that JM ALWAYS sings in a chopped way, whereas "MONSTER" isn't as chopped. It flows.

However, my point is that it is not a question of capacity but of singer's deliberate choice according to the rhythm of the song. It is wanted.

So, can you find a JM's song where he sings without using this chopping rhythm or voice. Where it flows more naturally?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
However, my point is that it is not a question of capacity but of singer's deliberate choice according to the rhythm of the song. It is wanted.
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I think this is the case... He was doing something different when recording the Cascio songs, working with a new team. And like I said, James Porte probably recorded the songs that way and Jason had to adjust to that.

So, can you find a JM's song where he sings without using this chopping rhythm or voice. Where it flows more naturally
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Thing is, if I change the tempo of Monster to - 4, I can't hear any "flow" anymore. I hear "normal" flow, like in most of Jason songs and actualyl most songs in general... And this is the tempo it was recorded in (almost exactly).
 
Actually, you have to put it at - 6, not - 4. When you do this, you'll have your average singing style as I would call it and not the "flow".
 
nope still got the flow , sorry

It's not imagining things but it's based on a personal experience like I said. I feel like I am not really expressing what I mean. It's kinda like one person says "iloveyou" almost like one word like in one breath and the other person says it like " I Love you" with words spaced. That's why I mentioned languages and said they had different rate and rhythm.

I'm looking from a wider listening perspective. Cascio songs have this "ease" to them, they have more flow . I mentioned KYHU before for example in monster -4 listen to " Everywhere you seem to turn there's a monster - When you look up in the air there's a monster- Paparazzi got you scared like a monster - monster - monster". Then the above JM song doesn't have that feeling to it. Still the words are more spaced and sound chopped to me. Like I said this is what I have been thinking about Malachi for years now.

anyway it was just a try to explain my part in regards to why I don't hear what you hear. no one has to agree obviously. and I'm not making any scientific or even objective claims it's just my feel on the subject.
 
ivy said:
nope still got the flow , sorry

It's not imagining things but it's based on a personal experience like I said. I feel like I am not really expressing what I mean. It's kinda like one person says "iloveyou" almost like one word like in one breath and the other person says it like " I Love you" with words spaced. That's why I mentioned languages and said they had different rate and rhythm.

I'm looking from a wider listening perspective. Cascio songs have this "ease" to them, they have more flow . I mentioned KYHU before for example in monster -4 listen to " Everywhere you seem to turn there's a monster - When you look up in the air there's a monster- Paparazzi got you scared like a monster - monster - monster". Then the above JM song doesn't have that feeling to it. Still the words are more spaced and sound chopped to me. Like I said this is what I have been thinking about Malachi for years now.

anyway it was just a try to explain my part in regards to why I don't hear what you hear. no one has to agree obviously. and I'm not making any scientific or even objective claims it's just my feel on the subject.
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I perfectly see what you mean. The only three flaws with that hypothesis are:

1) Powerless voice
2) Unusual voice timbre
3) Underestimating Jason's capacity to sing Monster which is the same style as Let me let go, including the melody at some point which I had pointed out. I'll give you that Let me let go is a bit more chopped than Monster, but as I said, it is wanted, and not because Malachi is supposedly unable to inject more flow. TBH, the flow could have been added afterwards. Just listen how theblank before he says "Papparazzi" is not natural. It's been clearly cut out and the vocals were pasted.
 
Listen to this remix of TDCAU, the flow has been increased by speeding up the tempo:
[youtube]xOOStJ-Cf1s[/youtube]
 
Yup, Monster isn't in one take at all. Almost all lines have been copy pasted.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
As a matter of fact. It's there that I was stabbed in the back. Now I've become serious.
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serious_cat.jpg
 
the "oh oh oh" at 1:34 and again at 4:48 in the -6 version pentum just posted, that sounds like mj to me. Is that one of the copy/pasted parts? if so, which mj song is it from? i can't place it.

that's the thing. i can pick out specific parts that sound like mj, without knowing if i'm right, or without studying up on it. i have a gut reaction when i hear mj, that's why i trust my instincts. (ha, watch me be wrong about that part lol! even if i am, at least i'm willing to put myself out there and voice my thoughts and identify specific portions of the song).

monster sounds absolutely nothing like michael jackson. i don't even know how this sounds close. it's so off it honestly blows my mind. i think stevie wonder back in the day (like his earliest records, when he was still lil' stevie wonder) sounds more like michael jackson than this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXVQIDlVoKs&feature=fvst

right? i still hear stevie, of course, i'm just saying it's CLOSER to michael (a young michael) than these crappy tracks.
 
azsummergirl said:
the "oh oh oh" at 1:34 and again at 4:48 in the -6 version pentum just posted, that sounds like mj to me. Is that one of the copy/pasted parts? if so, which mj song is it from? i can't place it.

that's the thing. i can pick out specific parts that sound like mj, without knowing if i'm right, or without studying up on it. i have a gut reaction when i hear mj, that's why i trust my instincts. (ha, watch me be wrong about that part lol! even if i am, at least i'm willing to put myself out there and voice my thoughts and identify specific portions of the song).

monster sounds absolutely nothing like michael jackson. i don't even know how this sounds close. it's so off it honestly blows my mind. i think stevie wonder back in the day (like his earliest records, when he was still lil' stevie wonder) sounds more like michael jackson than this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXVQIDlVoKs&feature=fvst

right? i still hear stevie, of course, i'm just saying it's CLOSER to michael (a young michael) than these crappy tracks.
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Yeah, those parts you pointed out sound like him to me, too...Not sure what song(s) they're from though...I agree about Monster sounding nothing like Michael....When I first heard it , I think I was more disgusted than I was with BN...Monster pretty much nailed it for me because it was the last Cascio song I heard out of the ones on the album, and it was sorta the last straw, you know? And this was even before I heard any comparisons or was even familiar with Malachi's voice....All I thought was, 'This is totally someone else...Someone else altogether'....I listened to the whole thing and just shook my head throughout the whole song...

WOW! That Stevie song...Sounds so much like lil Mike! That's some crazy shite right there!
 
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