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Michael - The Great Album Debate

azsummergirl said:
^^the "don't" is odd, but it doesn't sound like mj, to me.
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It's in the background, it's difficult to hear. But it sounds pasted. So it might come from another recording session.

Addendum: 3:30 and 3:41 seem to come from Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation.

Lol, the more I listen, the more I see the mess. What a cocktail! :D


I'd like to ask some questions to the forensic musicologists who analyzed the songs.
 
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That strange random background vocal seems like an ad-lib that they just turned down really low.
 
EDIT: just heard from someone, that a lot of people noticed it when the Monster snippet and demo leaked back then.


Can/does anyone have compare this part in Monster @ 1.33 - 1.34.
With the word Mamacita in Jason's Malachi' song 'Mamacita'?
... Mamacita, mama got you in a zig zag!?...
 
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For me the thing that i can´t understand it´s how many attacked and still attack the Jacksons family because they said the tracks are fake right before the fans said anything.

I never heard attacks to Katherine or the 3t for say anything about the MJ music before what they said about the tracks? Never.

Now, you have many fans that thinks the same as the family, you have many producers that said the same as the family, you have many comparisons that shows who is the real singer.....

The family were always right, it´s not MJ.

The comparisons showed and shows that there is no other than MISTER. C singing on those songs. None can do the voice of Mister.C.

NONE, you can use the excuse that you want, you can attack the Jackson Family, 3T, Tony Kurtis, etc......

Sorry, but not.
 
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What about that "beginning of the end of the debate" and "proof very soon" BS ?
I'm still looking forward to laugh my a** off.
 
Hasn't that been said since, oh I don't know, NOVEMBER??? :smilerolleyes:
 
This is becoming such a mess. Ive listened to the "offically" released Cascio tracks at least 100 times each. I want to believe its MJ, but i know it doesnt sound like him. There is something wrong with the voice. While reading what you guys have said about Monster, i decided to give it a listen again and again -its still a mess. Stay, All I Need, Monster, Soldier Boy, and Breaking News (poorly done), have ad-libs. Breaking News is a mess with them, becuase some of the (ohhh!) (aow!)s' dont sound like MJ at all. MJ may appear in the song, but hes not leading the vocals. smh :(
 
"The end of the debate is coming very soon!"
"Yeah right, they've been telling me the debate was about to end since I was a kid!!!"
 
Oh yeah, sorry I think that was supposed to happen May 21st but now it's supposed to happen October 21st.
 
What has prevented another poll being made on both MJJC and Maximum-Jackson? Is it against the rules or what?

Or is just assumed that more "doubters" visit these threads so it will be swayed? (And that typically the others don't visit.)

I'm just interested in seeing a real poll take place but it seems as though it's being prevented.
 
It already happened twice. As far as I know, the doubters won both. Same over at MaxJax. IMO, it's the first poll that should count. 'Cause people hadn't been offered much excuses to believe in.
 
It seems as though people are leaving this topic, though, giving up. I don't see nearly as many people discussing this anymore.
 
People discuss over at MaxJax. And yes, people have moved on. This is sadly how it all might end up soon.
 
I won't move ever!

Today I have talked with one of my colleagues who works as a vocal coach and a teacher at the Music Academy. I asked her if she could listen to all the snippets that I am going to provide her: MJ, Cascio, JM. I want to have her opinion.

However, before even listening to the snippets, she told me that there is NO WAY of proving anything and that NO MUSICOLOGIST as much as he or she forensic is can prove a thing by listening to the recorded voice, especially if the voice has been processed.

To me, this is already the first confirmation what I have been saying since th ebeginning, the musicologists / audio forensics are not realiable. Period.

There is a bigger chance that a fan recognizes MJ's vocals than musicologists. They know their job, that's sure, but their job is NOT listening to MJ's voice. That's our job as a fan.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I won't move ever!

Today I have talked with one of my colleagues who works as a vocal coach and a teacher at the Music Academy. I asked her if she could listen to all the snippets that I am going to provide her: MJ, Cascio, JM. I want to have her opinion.

However, before even listening to the snippets, she told me that there is NO WAY of proving anything and that NO MUSICOLOGIST as much as he or she forensic is can prove a thing by listening to the recorded voice, especially if the voice has been processed.

To me, this is already the first confirmation what I have been saying since th ebeginning, the musicologists / audio forensics are not realiable. Period.

There is a bigger chance that a fan recognizes MJ's vocals than musicologists. They know their job, that's sure, but their job is NOT listening to MJ's voice. That's our job as a fan.
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Does she know that MJ, and Malachi snippets are there? is there any bias or prior opnion to the Casico debate?
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
Does she know that MJ, and Malachi snippets are there? is there any bias or prior opnion to the Casico debate?
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No, she knows nothing about Jason Malachi.

She even doesn't know MJ's voice as we fans do, because she doesn't listen to him.

But as a musician, singer and vocal coach and a teacher she clearly said to me that no one can prove anything. It is impossible, no matter if it is MJ or Bono, or George Michael, etc. Studios can do such things that it makes it impossible to confirm anything.

I however asked her to listen to the snippets. I still haven't sent them. I told her that I'll send them as soon as I'll have some time.

Now, if you have any suggestion what snippets to send tell me. I also need to know which MJ's songs do you think are closst to the Cascio songs so that she can compare.

Any suggestion is welcome, whether you are a doubter or a believer, it doesn't matter. Just give me the snippets or songs to compare, so that she can listen to them.
 
^^ So then it'd basically be a waste of time to hire our own forensic musicologist..

I still wonder if an analysis was actually done in the first place...


TPI's comparisons are the best ones...but I think ANY of the comparisons/snippets that have been made by various people would suffice, no?
 
Arklove said:
^^ So then it'd basically be a waste of time to hire our own forensic musicologist..

I still wonder if an analysis was actually done in the first place...


TPI's comparisons are the best ones...but I think ANY of the comparisons/snippets that have been made by various people would suffice, no?
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Well, I just don't understand why people give credit to musicologists in this very case?

They surely know their job, which is all about music, vocals, variations, tones, plagiarism and even copyright. But voice recognition is another discipline. We're not debating how false or how right the singer hits the notes. We're basically concerned by to whom those vocals belong.

With MJ dead, it is impossible to prove anything. By the way, it would be more appropriate to give the job to the audio forenscics than to the musicologists alone, as we need a vocal recognition, not only the way the parts are sung. But the audio forensics whose job is to identify people's voice on the recordings admit that their results cannot be 100% accurate.

Statistically speaking, people who are familiar with some voices will be as accurate as any audio forensic who isn't that familiar with the voice, and it is perfectly logical. As I said, do you need an audio forenic or a musicologist to tell you that you hear your mother or father singing or speaking on a recorded tape, cd, or any other support? And if the voice was altered to the unrecognizable point, the question remains: why? We expect to hear MJ on his songs, not a supposed MJ.
 
Well, my position will always stand....I trust my ears....It is absolutely logical. It's SIMPLE....Why the need for forensics if it's really Mike? All the excuses, legal talk, is all fine and good....When I was entertaining all of this, I suddenly stopped and said, 'Wait a minute..This is ridiculous..Why am I even entertaining these excuses and what not? It's just not him...'...The real issue is obscured....The one explanation that many do not want to think about...
 
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