Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Aaron Carter Claims MJ Gave Him Drugs *Update Post 41* Merged

look, I agree with you that Sony and the estate should make their musical analysis public. I agree that the current situation is very unhealthy for the fan community and for Michael's legacy. What I am saying and have been saying since day one is that instead of writing countless posts between each other on different forums you (not you personally but the fans who doubt the vocals) should start acting. I think the start should come from the doubters because they are the most passionate about this issue. Look how it happened with the Carter situation - TheChosenOne went and wrote a letter, and it all started from there. People read the letter, joined the discussion and the whole campaign. I think that in the case of Cascio songs there should be someone who will start everything. Until such person appears it will be talk talk talk

The action has been started, but not followed by the fan community as one. If the believers don't unite with doubters it's doomed to failure. It is the unhealthy situation that needs to be sorted out. Maybe tomorrow you will doubt other tracks on the future releases and I'll be the one who will believe them to be genuine. It is important to give credit to each other and offer support until the proof has been delivered. So far we only have few skinny reports.
 
Re: Aaron Carter Claims MJ Gave Him Drugs *Update Post 41* Merged

^^ Exactly....Both believers and doubters have expressed discontent with the way the whole Cascio issue has been dealt with. Whether you believe the vocals are real or not doesn't have much to do with taking action. It's about the fight for his legacy. The vocals (IF they're Michael) have made him sound like a processed robot where his own fans don't even recognize him, so it's a taint on his legacy and musical integrity no matter what. We need both sides to go ahead and do anything about this situation. If both sides agree that this is unhealthy for the fan base AND for Mike's legacy, then what is stopping us ALL from uniting?

Sorry for the off topic talk :D
 
Re: Aaron Carter Claims MJ Gave Him Drugs *Update Post 41* Merged

Hmmm I guess you weren't loud enough... I haven't heard about this action even though I read the great debate thread and the Cascio thread on maximum Jackson...

Ps I am really uncomfortable discussing this in the Carter thread though... :)
 
Re: Aaron Carter Claims MJ Gave Him Drugs *Update Post 41* Merged

look, I agree with you that Sony and the estate should make their musical analysis public. I agree that the current situation is very unhealthy for the fan community and for Michael's legacy. What I am saying and have been saying since day one is that instead of writing countless posts between each other on different forums you (not you personally but the fans who doubt the vocals) should start acting. I think the start should come from the doubters because they are the most passionate about this issue. Look how it happened with the Carter situation - TheChosenOne went and wrote a letter, and it all started from there. People read the letter, joined the discussion and the whole campaign. I think that in the case of Cascio songs there should be someone who will start everything. Until such person appears it will be talk talk talk

How do you know nobody acted on it? Do you know many of us stop using MJJC as our platform to spread our words? Do you know many of us are united our efforts in private to see what can be done?

You know why we don't want to promote our ideas here? Your response to Bumper answered it. There is simply no room for any kind of discussion between the believers and doubters. Bumper has never forced his opinon on anyone. He bascially said if united, we can achieve more. We could have demanded the Estate and Sony to be more transparent in their communications. We could have asked them to release projects that upholds to Michael's artistic standard - a standard the perfectionist spent his whole life to build.

More transparecy and more integrity are common goals that all Michael Jackson fans want. It doesn't matter whether you like the Cascio tracks or not. It doesn't matter whether you believe the Cascio tracks are genuine or not.

But, nowadays, it seems a taboo to even mention the word "Cascio". Just take a look to your own initial reaction to Bumper's post.

What he said in his post that irks you so much that you don't even want him to continue? Is it because Bumper is one of the most vocal "doubters"?
 
Re: Aaron Carter Claims MJ Gave Him Drugs *Update Post 41* Merged

Ps I am really uncomfortable discussing this in the Carter thread though... :)

Then you should discuss it in the debate thread with us. We don't bite ;)If you lurk often enough, then the topic is of interest to you, no? Without both sides fighting, we're virtually helpless. Doubters AND believers have buried their heads in the sand about this situation.
 
Re: Aaron Carter Claims MJ Gave Him Drugs *Update Post 41* Merged

For some reason this Aaron Carter thing hit me really hard. I know Michael's musical legacy is hugely important but this latest attack was on his very character. His personal integrity. I am so sick of people I know saying things to me like "he made great music but he was a..." You can fill in the blank. I desperately want people to realize he not only made great music but he was an even greater human being. And this f-wad Aaron Carter and his lies is only making Michael look like somebody you hope you never live next door to.

Well, that's the thing....They've attacked his person when he was alive, and continue to do it through death. The ONE thing they couldn't tear down was his musical integrity...With the Cascio tracks, they're trying to do just that. Strip him of every aspect of his dignity that he's ever had. His musical integrity is of high importance as well, as he spent his whole life building it up. Why can't we protect his music the way we protect him as a person as well? Why do we walk away from it?
 
Re: Aaron Carter Claims MJ Gave Him Drugs *Update Post 41* Merged

For some reason this Aaron Carter thing hit me really hard. I know Michael's musical legacy is hugely important but this latest attack was on his very character. His personal integrity. I am so sick of people I know saying things to me like "he made great music but he was a..." You can fill in the blank. I desperately want people to realize he not only made great music but he was an even greater human being. And this f-wad Aaron Carter and his lies is only making Michael look like somebody you hope you never live next door to.

That's why we stand behind Michael. We shouldn't allow people making money off of him that easily, be it Aaron with his statements, be it SONY with crappy DVD quality of the videos or be it the Cascio tracks that came out of nowhere without any possible traceability except musicologists' report. Musicologists? Since when do we need them to tell us it is MJ. It's just wrong to be put in this situation at all.
 
Re: Aaron Carter Claims MJ Gave Him Drugs *Update Post 41* Merged

Hmmm I guess you weren't loud enough... I haven't heard about this action even though I read the great debate thread and the Cascio thread on maximum Jackson...

Ps I am really uncomfortable discussing this in the Carter thread though... :)

To be honest with you, MJJC and Max Jax are not the only places where we communicate with each other. Many of us communicated among ourselves in private. How can we be "loud" when we are being portrayed in such negative light?

Don't get me wrong here. I sincerely thank all the fans for their efforts in drafting and sending the letter. But, this whole Aaron Carter fiasco is just a desperate publicity stunt by a former teen singer. Actually, media has shown very limited interest in this whole thing. May be it's overshadowed by the Casey Anthony trial here in the U.S.

My point is false claims like the one started by Aaron Carter, while despicable, can no longer cause any substantial or longlasting damage. People who are enlightened and knew the truth would never believe in Aaron Carter. People who are ignorant will not see the light. This is just yet another tabloid junk.

Fans can be united to defend Michael against tabloid. Why can't fans be united to defend Michael against misrepresentation of his arts?
 
Re: Aaron Carter Claims MJ Gave Him Drugs *Update Post 41* Merged

Could you please copy paste the hidden comments to the New Album debate? At least people can react if they want to. Thank you :)
Yes I would be happy to
give me a moment to gather them all up and call the moving truck :)
 
Re: Aaron Carter Claims MJ Gave Him Drugs *Update Post 41* Merged

Yes I would be happy to
give me a moment to gather them all up and call the moving truck :)

I will be waiting till then :D

buddha-sock-monkey1.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
^^ Ok, this computer here at work is unbelievably slow, and the stupid screen wouldn't minimize, so I've got this pic of a monkey with huge balls splayed across the screen :lmao:
 
How do you know nobody acted on it? Do you know many of us stop using MJJC as our platform to spread our words? Do you know many of us are united our efforts in private to see what can be done?

You know why we don't want to promote our ideas here? Your response to Bumper answered it. There is simply no room for any kind of discussion between the believers and doubters. Bumper has never forced his opinon on anyone. He bascially said if united, we can achieve more. We could have demanded the Estate and Sony to be more transparent in their communications. We could have asked them to release projects that upholds to Michael's artistic standard - a standard the perfectionist spent his whole life to build.

More transparecy and more integrity are common goals that all Michael Jackson fans want. It doesn't matter whether you like the Cascio tracks or not. It doesn't matter whether you believe the Cascio tracks are genuine or not.

But, nowadays, it seems a taboo to even mention the word "Cascio". Just take a look to your own initial reaction to Bumper's post.

What he said in his post that irks you so much that you don't even want him to continue? Is it because Bumper is one of the most vocal "doubters"?

My initial reaction to Bumper's post was negative not because of the word "Cascio", I have no problem with people discussing these songs, I have no problem with doubters trying to prove the vocals are fake etc. I reacted that way because in that particular thread is was off-topic and it became a pattern that the doubters bring the Cascio discussion in other threads that have nothing to do with the album and the threads get derailed. And I can understand why it happens - when people are passionate about something, when they think about it all the time, when it upsets them, they are trying to find a solution and in order to find a solution these things should be discussed. And people get carried away and start discussing it everywhere. I understand that, I truly do. But at the same time you also should understand that other topics might be important too. Like the Aaron Carter situation. And it's better to discuss these issues separately to avoid confusion.

Then you should discuss it in the debate thread with us. We don't bite ;)If you lurk often enough, then the topic is of interest to you, no? Without both sides fighting, we're virtually helpless. Doubters AND believers have buried their heads in the sand about this situation.

I don't really come here to discuss.... :) I come to check if people have propably found some proof that would convince me that it's not Michael, or if people have started some actual campaign. But so far I haven't seen anything of the kind...

To be honest with you, MJJC and Max Jax are not the only places where we communicate with each other. Many of us communicated among ourselves in private. How can we be "loud" when we are being portrayed in such negative light?

Don't get me wrong here. I sincerely thank all the fans for their efforts in drafting and sending the letter. But, this whole Aaron Carter fiasco is just a desperate publicity stunt by a former teen singer. Actually, media has shown very limited interest in this whole thing. May be it's overshadowed by the Casey Anthony trial here in the U.S.

My point is false claims like the one started by Aaron Carter, while despicable, can no longer cause any substantial or longlasting damage. People who are enlightened and knew the truth would never believe in Aaron Carter. People who are ignorant will not see the light. This is just yet another tabloid junk.

Fans can be united to defend Michael against tabloid. Why can't fans be united to defend Michael against misrepresentation of his arts?

Probably because when it comes to accusations like this it involves Michael the person, which is much more important than Michael the musician, at least to me. And it attracts more fans who want to protect Michael's reputation and good name. I don't agree with you that Carter's words won't matter, I think it's a horrible situation that should be addressed and I am glad that the fans have done so.

As for the Cascio tracks, you are saying yourself that you mostly discuss this privately. Then how do you expect fans to join your campaign when no one knows about it? Perhaps there are a lot of people who would like to sign a petition or mail a letter etc, but there is no petition or a letter to sign. Like I said before, there should be a person or a group of people who will lead this campaign. Just like it happened with the Carter letter - there were several people who coordinated everything while the rest of us just came into a thread saying "Good job guys, let me know what I can do, I will do anything you say!" People in general really need to be told what to do :) That's why you need someone who will organize everybody.

And I don't agree with you that you can't discuss these things on MJJC (don't know about MaxJack because I have been there for a short time and don't have a feel of that forum yet). You are saying that there is a lot of negativity towards you, but - and please don't take it the wrong way, I don't want to offend anyone!!!! - when I read the discussion as an outsider so to say, it's obvious to me, that if a person gets banned that's not because they are pro-Cascio but because they are being really rude. Or when a video gets deleted, it's not because it's a proof of Malachi vocals and the powers that be want to hide it, but because it's a simple violation of copyright laws. And the doubters being overly sensitive about the whole matter (which is absolutely understandable), think they are being repressed.

Sorry, it's a long post, I don't usually write that much, and there might be mistakes, sorry for that. Just want to stress again, that I didn't want to offend anyone and I am sorry if I have!
 
You know, if Michael was still here...we would have none of these probelms today. The Cascio tracks would stay in the vault (or unsung by an impersonatar", Aaron Carter would still (defend MJ), This is it would have happened, and we would have a better album than MICHAEL.

I guess we better take what they give us...only if it can be proven to be the ONLY Michael Jackson.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET;3429754 said:
And I still don't understand why I am banned for life on Max-Jax.

I really don´t know what happened with you on Max-Jax.

:(
 
You know, if Michael was still here...we would have none of these probelms today. The Cascio tracks would stay in the vault (or unsung by an impersonatar", Aaron Carter would still (defend MJ), This is it would have happened, and we would have a better album than MICHAEL.

I guess we better take what they give us...only if it can be proven to be the ONLY Michael Jackson.

The thing is, they don't care about us nor Michael. They want money and that's it. I am at least happy that MJ was already a legend when he was alive and didn't need to die to become one, cuz the way his legacy's being handled is terrible. Indeed MJ's fans amateurs are able to do better remixes and videos for free than professionals driven by bucks. Not to mention all the so called friends promoting themselves thanks to their 'friendship' with Michael.
 
How do you know nobody acted on it? Do you know many of us stop using MJJC as our platform to spread our words? Do you know many of us are united our efforts in private to see what can be done?

You know why we don't want to promote our ideas here? Your response to Bumper answered it. There is simply no room for any kind of discussion between the believers and doubters. Bumper has never forced his opinon on anyone. He bascially said if united, we can achieve more. We could have demanded the Estate and Sony to be more transparent in their communications. We could have asked them to release projects that upholds to Michael's artistic standard - a standard the perfectionist spent his whole life to build.

More transparecy and more integrity are common goals that all Michael Jackson fans want. It doesn't matter whether you like the Cascio tracks or not. It doesn't matter whether you believe the Cascio tracks are genuine or not.

But, nowadays, it seems a taboo to even mention the word "Cascio". Just take a look to your own initial reaction to Bumper's post.

What he said in his post that irks you so much that you don't even want him to continue? Is it because Bumper is one of the most vocal "doubters"?

Then you should discuss it in the debate thread with us. We don't bite ;)If you lurk often enough, then the topic is of interest to you, no? Without both sides fighting, we're virtually helpless. Doubters AND believers have buried their heads in the sand about this situation.

To be honest with you, MJJC and Max Jax are not the only places where we communicate with each other. Many of us communicated among ourselves in private. How can we be "loud" when we are being portrayed in such negative light?

Don't get me wrong here. I sincerely thank all the fans for their efforts in drafting and sending the letter. But, this whole Aaron Carter fiasco is just a desperate publicity stunt by a former teen singer. Actually, media has shown very limited interest in this whole thing. May be it's overshadowed by the Casey Anthony trial here in the U.S.

My point is false claims like the one started by Aaron Carter, while despicable, can no longer cause any substantial or longlasting damage. People who are enlightened and knew the truth would never believe in Aaron Carter. People who are ignorant will not see the light. This is just yet another tabloid junk.

Fans can be united to defend Michael against tabloid. Why can't fans be united to defend Michael against misrepresentation of his arts?



see, from everything I wrote you chose only this part - banning and deleting videos. this is the focus of the doubters community now, instead of trying to reach out to more fans and start a campaign, people talk about how unfairly they are being treated. I don't know all the details why each particular person was banned. But the doubters are being rude while discussing the songs, and they don't even realize it themselves. Sometimes talk becomes very hostile. The other side can be rude as well, I remember one of the most adamant believers (is that what you call us? :) ) whose name I can't recall now was banned because he was very rude to the other side. I agree that the doubters get more bans. But I don't think it's because the moderators are biased but because the doubters talk more about it. I don't see a lot of discussion about this matter from the believers, because they just enjoy the songs and don't participate in these threads for the most part. So the doubters are the only ones who talk about it and the discussions become heated and people can banned. That's how I see this whole situation.

Anyway, all this unfair treatment that you believe is going on should not stop you if you want to find the truth. You should stop discussing the same thing over and over and over and start acting.
 
edit...I need serious psychiatric help. my stupid phone lol


p.s.

-watermelon
-bread
-mustard
-eggs
-chocolate
-iron
-candies
-jam
-wooden beam
-jellyfish
-yacht
-french fries
-kite


:doh::no:
 
Well I understand they only do it to make money....but honestly. if you compare the Album mix or Throwback mix of hollywood tonight, to Bircheys mix...imo the Birchey mix is crafted with more love and care. I just dont see why they cant take the time out of their lifes to at least mix the songs right, and fairly promote the album. And im sure the album would have sold better without questionable tracks....
 
Well I understand they only do it to make money....but honestly. if you compare the Album mix or Throwback mix of hollywood tonight, to Bircheys mix...imo the Birchey mix is crafted with more love and care. I just dont see why they cant take the time out of their lifes to at least mix the songs right, and fairly promote the album. And im sure the album would have sold better without questionable tracks....
Exactly, that's just it. Even from the perspective of someone who just wants to make money, I don't see why they did not decide to take the Cascio tracks off the album after the initial backlash. I guess they underestimated the negative response that would follow after the release, but still, concerns had already been expressed about these tracks by people involved with the project and Michael's family members. Why run the risk?

If they'd have issued a statement in November saying that the decision was made to pull the Cascio tracks off the album, all would have been fine. We might have discussed the Cascio tracks as an intruiging subject, like a "wtf happened there?" topic, but other than that, we would have all enjoyed and focused on the album.
 
Probably because when it comes to accusations like this it involves Michael the person, which is much more important than Michael the musician, at least to me. And it attracts more fans who want to protect Michael's reputation and good name. I don't agree with you that Carter's words won't matter, I think it's a horrible situation that should be addressed and I am glad that the fans have done so.

I also understand why fans are more keen to act on the Aaron Carter fiasco. I didn't say Carter's words won't matter. Don't get me wrong. Aaron Carter's publicity stunt is despicable. I am absolutely disgusted.

However, tabloid junks like this one happened before, are happeining now and will happen in the future. It's because sensationalized stories sell. It's unfortunate, but it's true. People, from Arnold Klein, to Mark Lester, to that chubby Pfeiffer dude (I don't even remember his name) all made up lewd stories. As time goes by, nobody will remember those characters. I guess my point is that truth runs marathon as Michael put it. Tabloid junks will come and go. Despicable characters like Aaron Carter will come and go. Michael Jackson will remain the best entertainer the world has ever seen forever.

Again, I'm not discrediting people's great effort here in defending Michael. I respect every fan's contributions. It shows united we are very powerful.

I don't read tabloids. I always take what the media said with a grain of salt. But, I'm sure many people are ignorant and brainwashed and would believe in Aaron Carter said. I can't control what those people think. Actually, with or without Aaron Carter, those people are always hateful. This Aaron Carter fiasco just gave them some slight sickening gratification. Their way of thinking will not changed becasue of our efforts.

As for the Cascio tracks, you are saying yourself that you mostly discuss this privately. Then how do you expect fans to join your campaign when no one knows about it? Perhaps there are a lot of people who would like to sign a petition or mail a letter etc, but there is no petition or a letter to sign. Like I said before, there should be a person or a group of people who will lead this campaign. Just like it happened with the Carter letter - there were several people who coordinated everything while the rest of us just came into a thread saying "Good job guys, let me know what I can do, I will do anything you say!" People in general really need to be told what to do :) That's why you need someone who will organize everybody

And I don't agree with you that you can't discuss these things on MJJC (don't know about MaxJack because I have been there for a short time and don't have a feel of that forum yet). You are saying that there is a lot of negativity towards you, but - and please don't take it the wrong way, I don't want to offend anyone!!!! - when I read the discussion as an outsider so to say, it's obvious to me, that if a person gets banned that's not because they are pro-Cascio but because they are being really rude. Or when a video gets deleted, it's not because it's a proof of Malachi vocals and the powers that be want to hide it, but because it's a simple violation of copyright laws. And the doubters being overly sensitive about the whole matter (which is absolutely understandable), think they are being repressed.

Sorry, it's a long post, I don't usually write that much, and there might be mistakes, sorry for that. Just want to stress again, that I didn't want to offend anyone and I am sorry if I have!

I didn't say we can't discuss Cascio here. I said we stopped thinking of using MJJC as the platform to spread our words. First, I don't think it's allowed. Second, MJalen did started a Cascio Free campaign here. His thread was deleted in no time. Let me put it this way. Any effort against the Cascio tracks is discouraged to say the least.
 
Back
Top