Michael - The Great Album Debate

@Arklove: The lead Cascio tracks from the album are so full of copy-and-pastes that the listener feels moments of Michael and it creates uncertainty. We know that... And they don't get to hear the rest of like the demos and things, how would they? You think the millions of other casual listeners are going to dig for every demo vocal snippet they can find of Michael Jackson? Only if he's completely your idol and you practically worship him!

Also, a lot of our current generation is just completely dumbed down and ignorant to Michael Jackson's music and how good his voice is, they don't know if it sounds different at times. They like to listen to LMFAO and the new Katy Perry song, Lady Gaga blows their minds like she's the most original thing in music ever. He's been forgotten by many, so they would listen and would look at you and likely shrug or say "I don't know."
 
Dear Bumper,

You know for a fact that I asked if it could be Porte and from your response it was obvious that you didn't know or consider vocal doubling / blending / combining / merging. I went to Paula Abdul lawsuit and examples from it because our resident experts are also unaware of possibility of such techniques and they expected an obvious Porte. It was relevant to the discussion and I needed those examples to explain to you what I was asking you about. I'm yet hopeful that you would consider Porte in regards to dialects and answer my question, now that I hope you know what I'm talking about.

What I was meaning is that you ask a question of why Michael recorded more songs with Cascio's then on his own. You are given an answer with due to difference of already written song versus writing a song from nothing but your answer is not related to it at all, you switch the topic to what it sounds like. It had nothing to do with your original question.

I have been in debate groups and also ran them, the rule is to stick to a topic however what I see with the doubters is that they bring a discussion topic such as the recorded songs, the copyright registrations and whenever you are discussing that and they feel like they have nothing relevant to reply to you it suddenly goes back to "doesn't sound like" argument. It again makes me consider why do I even respond. I mean if the issue is "number of recorded songs with Cascio's" then why can't the discussion stick to that?

Dear Ivy,

I started with the dialectal differences and am still sticking to them. I used Hollywood Tonight example within my dialectal differences. Although posthumous and unfinished, it sounds Michael (vocally or linguistcially), unlike the words I heard in the Cascio songs. So, I don't see why is it considered as jumping from one subject to another. I am comparing the supposed Michael to Michael.

Indeed, I started with "this or that word is pronounced as in MD's region".

You went on with "yes, but Paula Abdul..."

I mean, come on. Give me MJ vs MJ, not dialectal differences in the Cascio songs vs Paula Abdul, who by the way is even not dead.
 
@Arklove: The lead Cascio tracks from the album are so full of copy-and-pastes that the listener feels moments of Michael and it creates uncertainty. We know that... And they don't get to hear the rest of like the demos and things, how would they? You think the millions of other casual listeners are going to dig for every demo vocal snippet they can find of Michael Jackson? Only if he's completely your idol and you practically worship him!

Also, a lot of our current generation is just completely dumbed down and ignorant to Michael Jackson's music and how good his voice is, they don't know if it sounds different at times. They like to listen to LMFAO and the new Katy Perry song, Lady Gaga blows their minds like she's the most original thing in music ever. He's been forgotten by many, so they would listen and would look at you and likely shrug or say "I don't know."

Well, I was mostly talking about hardcore fans :p...BUT...I don't know, I think that even casual fans and general public would question the vocals on Fall in Love...At least those who are old enough to be familiar with MJ's voice and his music...The album was geared towards the general public, obviously...The copy/pastes in the album are enough to fool them...They hear those genuine copy/pastes, slapped onto an official MJ album, combined with Sony and Teddy Riley saying it's Michael Jackson, and VOILA...there you have it...That's why this is working...lol...
 
Indeed, I started with "this or that word is pronounced as in MD's region".

You went on with "yes, but Paula Abdul..."

I mean, come on. Give me MJ vs MJ, not dialectal differences in the Cascio songs vs Paula Abdul, who by the way is even not dead.

Is this what you understood really? Then it's really hopeless.

For cliffnotes : I did not give you dialect differences between Cascio songs versus Paula Abdul. I asked you about Porte who happens to be from Tennessee and New York and with Maryland that's a part of Appalachian English. You told me you didn't consider Porte for multiple reasons because it was mid song, Michael credited for the leads and so on. I asked you if you know the Paula Abdul case of mixed vocals and then Pentum said Porte would be obvious to identify. So then I went into detail and examples to show vocal doubling, combining and merging. At no time it asked you to consider the dialect of Paula Abdul or compare her to Cascio songs, it was all to show that Michael's vocals could have been merged/ doubled with Porte's and you should consider it. If you can't see this I don't know what else can I say.
 
Well, I was mostly talking about hardcore fans :p...BUT...I don't know, I think that even a casual fan, or just general public would even question the vocals on Fall in Love...The album was geared towards the general public, obviously...The copy/pastes in the album are enough to fool them...They hear those genuine copy/pastes, slapped onto an official MJ album, combined with Sony and Teddy Riley saying it's Michael Jackson, and VOILA...there you have it...That's why this is working...lol...

In a strange way, I almost wish songs like Water and Fall In Love would be released so that people will realise who they are actually listening to. Still blows my mind that Sony were taken in by it.

Edit: even if Porte's vocals were mixed with Michael's it doesn't explain why he sounds like, well, not Michael.
 
that's a whole different topic isn't it?

if this is solely about how the songs "sound like" you need to keep that topic at focus.

When you bring something else to the discussion , please discuss on that and do not always fall back on to "sound like" argument when it seems like the discussion isn't going the way you hoped.

you know what bumper, don't mind at all. forget what I have asked about Porte and forget my efforts to try to explain what I've been talking about.

I have again been shown that still no one understands why I post what I post. These posts remind me again and again why I shouldn't post here at all.

Ivy, I was simply talking about dialectal differences in general to everyone. I asked a genuine question why Michael sounds different in Hollywood Tonight (vocally or linguistically).

Now, read again your post. It wasn't very friendly, was it?
 
In a strange way, I almost wish songs like Water and Fall In Love would be released so that people will realise who they are actually listening to. Still blows my mind that Sony were taken in by it.

Edit: even if Porte's vocals were mixed with Michael's it doesn't explain why he sounds like, well, not Michael.

Well exactly....A lot of fans are able to pinpoint Michael in even just backing vocals...in OTHER artist's songs...Not even knowing Mike was actually singing in them...His voice is that recognizable, that unique...He was never just another singer who happened to make great music...Time to give him the credit he deserves for the vocal dynamic he was...
 
Is this what you understood really? Then it's really hopeless.

For cliffnotes : I did not give you dialect differences between Cascio songs versus Paula Abdul. I asked you about Porte who happens to be from Tennessee and New York and with Maryland that's a part of Appalachian English. You told me you didn't consider Porte for multiple reasons because it was mid song, Michael credited for the leads and so on. I asked you if you know the Paula Abdul case of mixed vocals and then Pentum said Porte would be obvious to identify. So then I went into detail and examples to show vocal doubling, combining and merging. At no time it asked you to consider the dialect of Paula Abdul or compare her to Cascio songs, it was all to show that Michael's vocals could have been merged/ doubled with Porte's and you should consider it. If you can't see this I don't know what else can I say.

But your reaction to my Hollywood Tonight wasn't really friendly. I answered your questions and read what you posted about Paula Abdul, even if I didn't see any correlation with my topic, yet you are telling me that the conversation doesn't go my way. I mean what way are you talking about? All I said, and read it again, is that some words are pronounced the way MD inhabitants pronounce. I didn't even say it was Jason. Furthermore, I said it was not enough to conclude anything. So I am repeating what is the "my way" you are referring to?
 
But your reaction to my Hollywood Tonight wasn't really friendly. I answered your questions and read what you posted about Paula Abdul, even if I didn't see any correlation with my topic, yet you are telling me that the conversation doesn't go my way. I mean what way are you talking about? All I said, and read it again, is that some words are pronounced the way MD inhabitants pronounce. I didn't even say it was Jason. Furthermore, I said it was not enough to conclude anything. So I am repeating what is the "my way" you are referring to?

you know what? I really do not care. The only reason I have been so active in this thread for a long time was that I believed this thread to be the most intellectual debate ever and we had really strong debaters here. To me it was challenging and thought provoking.

But now I read that you think I asked you about dialectal differences in Paula Abdul songs. Seriously? You really didn't see the correlation and understood what I was talking about? that it got nothing to do with Paula Abdul but answering your points of why you didn't consider Porte. Where am I? What happened to this thread and the people in it?

You know what don't bother. I had kept away for a week, just came this sunday as I had time in my hands. I should keep away. This is no longer the thread that I like and this is no longer the discussion that I found intellectual as I need to spell out what I mean and I can't believe how somethings aren't even understood.
 
you know what? I really do not care. The only reason I have been so active in this thread for a long time was that I believed this thread to be the most intellectual debate ever and we had really strong debaters here. To me it was challenging and thought provoking.

But now I read that you think I asked you about dialectal differences in Paula Abdul songs. Seriously? You really didn't see the correlation and understood what I was talking about? that it got nothing to do with Paula Abdul but answering your points of why you didn't consider Porte. Where am I? What happened to this thread and the people in it?

You know what don't bother. I had kept away for a week, just came this sunday as I had times in my hands. I should keep away. This is no longer the thread that I like and this is no longer the discussion that I found intellectual as I need to spell out what I mean and I can't believe how somethings aren't even understood.

First, your reaction hasn't been friendly.
Second, it still isn't. Look at your first sentence.
Third, thanks for insulting our intelligence, but maybe you are overestimating yours.
Fourth, maybe the discussion doesn't go the way you want it to go.
 
You buckle up! Zip it! Shut up! :D

shut_up_xlarge.jpeg
 
First, your reaction hasn't been friendly.
Second, it still isn't. Look at your first sentence.
Third, thanks for insulting our intelligence, but maybe you are overestimating yours.
Fourth, maybe the discussion doesn't go the way you want it to go.

and your reaction is friendly? so funny.

I'll end with this explanation to cover the "intelligence" portion.

Why does it have to be Michael?

Well, because:
-he is credited

in instances of vocal doubling / composite lead vocals / merged lead vocals , background vocals credit for Porte is enough. He doesn't have to be credited as co-lead. See outcome of Paula Abdul lawsuit.

-the words in the middle of a sentence don't make sense to be James Porte
-the refrain is usually sung by the artist himself (MJ in this case)
-the same voice in one sentence (supposed to be Michael), would suggest that the word with a different accent is also pronounced by the same person

It's possible to use guide vocals to double whole lead vocals or use them to enhance certain parts of the songs . This is referred to be common practice since the 1990s. See LA. Reid court testimony and his examples including Michael Jackson and Yvette Marine complaint.

-there should be a clear difference between (supposedly) Michael's voice and Porte's voice, or else the whole songs could have been sung by Porte.

the vocals are combined to create one composite vocal, the differences aren't that clear cut or obvious. See Bobby Brown - Babyface co-leads on Roni or Paula Abdul - Yvette Marine on Knocked Out as an example.

No I'm not claiming to be a genius or smarter than everyone but I personally thought the reason for mentioning Paula Abdul case, testimony and examples as obvious as I showed above. What do you expect me to think when I see clearly it is not understood and you can't see the correlation and even worse you say that you thought I was asking about dialectal differences of Paula Abdul. It got absolutely nothing to do with any dialect in Paula Abdul's songs, those were used to explain a common production technique and accompanying credit rules. I'm seriously shocked to see that this is not understood or seen as not relevant. If you want to see that as an "insult" it's your call. I still cannot believe that sentence coming from you.
 
Is this what you understood really? Then it's really hopeless.

For cliffnotes : I did not give you dialect differences between Cascio songs versus Paula Abdul. I asked you about Porte who happens to be from Tennessee and New York and with Maryland that's a part of Appalachian English. You told me you didn't consider Porte for multiple reasons because it was mid song, Michael credited for the leads and so on. I asked you if you know the Paula Abdul case of mixed vocals and then Pentum said Porte would be obvious to identify. So then I went into detail and examples to show vocal doubling, combining and merging. At no time it asked you to consider the dialect of Paula Abdul or compare her to Cascio songs, it was all to show that Michael's vocals could have been merged/ doubled with Porte's and you should consider it. If you can't see this I don't know what else can I say.
In the Paula Abdul example you posted, I can still perfectly trace Paula Abdul's voice. It was merged, but still very recognizable.Yvette Marine's voice was more of a supporting voice, to give it more 'body'.

In the Cascio songs, if they are merged, it's merged a bit too much...:D, to the point the 'guidevocalist' is all we hear and not Michael's voice.
 
Yeah, the two voices are easily distinguishable, but it is something that I would say could deserve a co-vocal credit.
 
and your reaction is friendly? so funny.

I am sorry, but what did you expect after your unfriendly reaction? A friendly reaction back?

I'll end with this explanation to cover the "intelligence" portion.



in instances of vocal doubling / composite lead vocals / merged lead vocals , background vocals credit for Porte is enough. He doesn't have to be credited as co-lead. See outcome of Paula Abdul lawsuit.

Your question was "why does it have to be Michael?" Well Michael is credited, isn't he? I don't even see why you are saying that he doesn't have to be, when he is. Other than that, we are talking about lead vocals supposed to be sung by MJ, not by Porte.




It's possible to use guide vocals to double whole lead vocals or use them to enhance certain parts of the songs . This is referred to be common practice since the 1990s. See LA. Reid court testimony and his examples including Michael Jackson and Yvette Marine complaint.

This example has nothing to do with the dialectal pronunciations. If this was the case, we'd probably hear two voices saying two different vowels at the same time to pronounce the same word. Now, this is where you are shifting with the topic. While I was talking about the pronunciation, you were talking about enhancing the vocals. So, explain to me why I can't ask you about Hollywood Tonight or all other unreleased songs then? So with my question, I am changing the topic, but with your argument you are not?

the vocals are combined to create one composite vocal, the differences aren't that clear cut or obvious. See Bobby Brown - Babyface co-leads on Roni or Paula Abdul - Yvette Marine on Knocked Out as an example.

So again, you are clearly talking about the vocals, while I was talking about the dialectal differences expressed of course vocally by Porte and supposed Michael. Again, here is how you were shifting the debate towards the vocals and not sticking to what had been discussed regarding the pronunciation.

No I'm not claiming to be a genius or smarter than everyone

When you say that you were looking for some intellectually challenging discussions and you don't find them, excuse us for being stupid. So, yes, it seems you don't even realize that you are insulting other people's intelligence.

but I personally thought the reason for mentioning Paula Abdul case, testimony and examples as obvious as I showed above. What do you expect me to think when I see clearly it is not understood and you can't see the correlation and even worse you say that you thought I was asking about dialectal differences of Paula Abdul. It got absolutely nothing to do with any dialect in Paula Abdul's songs, those were used to explain a common production technique and accompanying credit rules. I'm seriously shocked to see that this is not understood. If you want to see that as an "insult" it's your call. I still cannot believe that sentence coming from you.

You misunderstood me. I didn't say that at all. I said I started with the dialectal pronunciation, and you ended up by bringing in Paula Abdul's case regarding the vocals! On top of that you are telling me to stay on topic when I am comparing the sounding of supposed Michael to... Michael?
 
In the Paula Abdul example you posted, I can still perfectly trace Paula Abdul's voice. It was merged, but still very recognizable.Yvette Marine's voice was more of a supporting voice, to give it more 'body'.

In the Cascio songs, if they are merged, it's merged a bit too much...:D, to the point the 'guidevocalist' is all we hear and not Michael's voice.

Exactly! And that's why, IF the voice is Michael's, then the songs still sully Michael's artistry because someone saw fit that these songs are actually releasable and deserve to be included on a posthumous release...Either way, it's wrong...
 
@bumper

you still don't get what I was trying to say at all and have multiple misunderstanding however apparently when I say that it's insulting - and that's not something I want- so I'll just leave it at that.
forget it, forget what I have asked. It's Malachi's Maryland accent in the vocals and you are absolutely right in everything.
It's totally my mistake to came here and post to start with.
 
It depends. To some people the few words I've found could be conclusive. To others, it would be not sufficient. As far as I am concerned, I always try to get the maximum out of it befor ejumping to conclusions. All I can say so far is that the words I've found out have Maryland's pronunciation. Does it mean that it is Jason, or that there is only one vocalist? Objectively speaking not necessarily. However...

However... the absence of distinctive accent is typical for Marymand's region.

And I agree with you, everyone has an accent, that goes without saying. When I said plain American English, I meant by that that in the songs the way the words are pronounced, if I had to transcribe them phonetically, they match the phonetical pronunciation of the standard American English pronunciation as suggested by the dictionaries, except some words that happen to lean towards the Maryland's dialect. One (so far) of those words is identical to Northern part of Virgina dialect.
This latter is sometimes also used in Washington D.C., the city of origin of Jason Malachi.

@bumper

you still don't get what I was trying to say at all and have multiple misunderstanding however apparently when I say that it's insulting - and that's not something I want- so I'll just leave it at that.
forget it, forget what I have asked. It's Malachi's Maryland accent in the vocals and you are absolutely right in everything.
It's totally my mistake to came here and post to start with.

No comment
 
Ivy, I want you to know that I appreciate your contributions to this thread a great deal. You go the extra mile in researching things, unlike some other stereotypical people who only enforce their like or dislike of the songs and who never actually ANALYSE why they think the way they do. Even though it's an argument, I always enjoy reading your's and Bumper's posts because of the obvious research you have both done from your respective area of expertise.
 
Or could it be Michael recorded listening to Porte's guides and mimic his accent?

Why would Michael adjust his pronunciation to Porte's? He didn't know he wouldn't be able to finish the songs himself and record his own background vocals. I don't think he considered himself a weak vocalist who needs someone else's voice to make him sound better. Maybe subconsciously...
 
Just a little note:

This is my last contribution to this thread before any major change occurs. I have no longer wish to spend hours of my time (that I already don't have) in research if it is to get back unnecessary unfriendly comments and feel insulted as shown in the recent post.

Please note that in my comments there are two things, my personal opinion, and an objective one (dialectal differences).

It's been more than a year that this debate has been opened and it is still unsolved. I sincerely thought that this debate was going to be over now, but I was deadly wrong. As we already discussed all possibilities, I've never paid close attention to the pronunciation and I've never used intentionally my professional skills to compare the way Jason, Porte, Michael or anyone else, pronounces different words. Once, I did however open a thread about the linguistical details hoping to find other linguists and discuss the issue, but it was eventually closed in order to limit the Cascio discussion to this thread. So it all stopped there.

Now, I have recently asked to hear Jason's albums in order to try to analyse his accent, although it is a difficult task when someone sings.
At the same time I was gathering information about different dialects in the U.S.A.

As many people have been claiming to hear Jason Malachi on the Cascio tracks, I needed to have an objective confirmation by comparing Jason's dialectal pronunciation with the Cascio singer's ones. As I already know Michael's accent, I left it for later.

I've been listening to Jason's albums Critical and Resurrection for a week or two now trying to pinpoint the slightest dialectal pronunciation from his region, Maryland and eventually Washington D.C. which is somewhat influenced by the Virginia dialect from the northern part of that State.

Here is a map of the dialectal differences in English on the American ground:

diausa.gif



here is another example of the map:

usdialects.gif


We can clearly see that the eastern part of the United States (JM's region) has more dialectal nuances than the Western part (MJ's region).

The region of Maryland is believed to be one of the first regions to be occupied by the settlers. According to the historians and linguists the reason why we have impression that they do not have any distinctive accent (when in reality they do) is because all other English dialects accross the U.S. have developped from the initial Maryland's region. Of course they do have their own distinctive dialect with their own jargon too, mostly influenced by the region of Baltimore.

Here are some characteristics in the Maryland's dialect:

Vowels
  • [oʊ] shifts to [eʊ].
  • prerhotic monopthongizations: [eɪ] becomes ; so bared can rhyme with leered and *[aɪ], [ɔɪ] ,and [aʊ] become [ɔ]; choir and hire rhyme with war, aisle and boil with ball
    [*][aɪ] becomes [a] before [ɹ]; fire is pronounced as [fɑɹ], sometimes rendered pseudophonetically as far
    [*]As in Philadelphia, the word "water" is often pronounced as "wooder" (/wʊdər/) or, more uniquely, (/wɔɹdəɹ/).
    [*]Resistance to the "cot–caught" merger is common in Baltimorese. The words 'cot' /ɑ/ and 'caught' /ɔ/ do not rhyme. Similar word pairings are 'don' and 'dawn', 'stock' and 'stalk', 'tock' and 'talk'. The word 'on' rhymes with 'dawn', but not 'don'.
    [*]As in most Mid-Atlantic cities, short-'a' is pronounced two different ways: for example, the word 'sad' /æ/ will not rhyme with the word 'mad' /eə/. Pronunciation is dependent upon a complex system of rules that differ from city to city.[SUP][4][/SUP] For more details on the Philadelphia, New York, and Baltimore systems see: phonemic æ-tensing in the Mid-Atlantic region.
    [*]epenthetic [ɹ]; notably, "wash" is pronounced as [wɑɹʃ], popularly written as "warsh."
    [*]elision is common
    [*]There is a consistent distinction between the pronunciation of "can" (to be able to) /kɛn/ and "can" (aluminum/tin) /ˈkæːn/.
Consonants
  • [f] is often substituted for [θ]
  • [ʒ] is often substituted for [z] and, sometimes,
    [*]As is common in many US dialects /t/ is frequently elided after /n/, thus hunter is pronounced [hʌnɚ] sometimes written pseudophonetically as hunner
    [*]The [ɪŋ] (-ing) ending of participle forms is pronounced [iːn] as in "They're go-een to the store."
    [*][ə] is often eliminated entirely from a word; (e.g. Annapolis = Naplis, cigarette = cigrette, company = compny)
    [*]Baltimore English tends to use a voiced "d" sound for words beginning with a [ð] sound. This is very characteristic of dialects in the Northeast. The popularly cited example of this is "dis, dem, and dose" in place of "this, them, and those".
    [*]L vocalization is common. The sound /l/ is often replaced by the semivowel or glide /w/ and/or /o/ or /ʊ/. Pronunciation of words like "middle" and "college" become [mɪdo] and [kɑwɪdʒ] respectively. The word 'hulk' become the same as 'hawk' /hɔk/. L vocalization almost never occurs if the /l/ is at the beginning of the word.
As I am extremely busy, this has been only the beginning of my research.

So, while listening to Jason's albums, I took into account all these criteria and tried to detect them. As a matter of fact I did detect some things:

When Jason Malachi sings, he does elide "t" phonemes from his words. For example in his own songs he pronounces:

patiently - / ˈpeɪʃnlɪ/ [patien'ly] instead of / ˈpeɪʃntlɪ/
want you - /wɒnjʊ/ [wan'you] isntead of /wɒntjʊ/ or /wɒntʃjʊ/[wantyou] or [wantchyou]

The Cascio singer pronounces:

mirror - / ˈmɪ:r(ə)/ (MD's dialect) instead of / ˈmɪrər/
stalking -/ ˈstɒkɪŋ/ (MD's dialect) instead of / /stɔːkɪŋ/
In the song Monster "stalking" is pronounced as in MD's dialect. In Breaking News, in the beginning of the song, you can hear the singer pronounce it the MD's way too - "stocking" instead of stalking.
Michael clearly pronounces the word correctly as it can be heard in his song PRIVACY. Indeed, the way Michael sings it there is much slower, but the issue is not the speed, but the vowel itself. So even if we sped up Michael's "stalking" in PRIVACY, the vowel be pronounced faster, not differently.
Here are some more words of the same family to give you an idea:
walk vs mock
talk vs clock
stalk vs stock
in phonetic transcription [al] = ɔː and not [ock] ɒ as pronounced by the people from Maryland. So we can clearly see that it is the vowel that is different, not the speed of its pronunciation.

The cascio singer elides the sound [t] in some words, which is also a MD characteristic (but also in many other parts in the U.S.). Earlier I showed also that Jason elides the [t] sound, which is normal, since he's from MD. Despite the fact that elision of [t] is quite common in the U.S., I don't recollect MJ doing it. I still haven't had time to on that yet.

Examples in the Cascio songs:

wanting is pronounced / ˈwɒnɪŋ/ [wanning] instead of / ˈwɒntɪŋ/ [wanting]
waiting is pronounced / ˈweɪŋ/ [wai'ing] instead of / ˈweɪtɪŋ/ [waiting] or / ˈweɪdɪŋ/ [weiding]

The way the word Monster is pronounced, it is not clear for me if it is common for MD people, but undoubtedly it is common in the northern part of Virginia and Washington D.C. where [-uh] sound replaces [-r] sound after a vowel.
It is pronounced:

/ ˈmɒnstʌ/ [monst-uh)] instead of / ˈmɒnstər/ [monster]*

I would just like to add that Michael Jackson pronounces "mirror", "wanting", "waiting", "stalking" the way it is suggested in the dictionary and not the way people from MD pronounce them.

And another thing, I haven't heard any snorts in MJ's songs, but I did hear a snort in Jason Malachi's "Room to breathe", it could be caused by his own individual pronunciation or because of the dialect he uses.

I was going to do more thorough research, but after the latest conversation I've had, I'm just gonna give it up.

Bye everyone.

*Addendum I:

The chorus part in the song "Monster" is pronounced differently from the way singer does it, the standard way: / ˈmɒnstər/ [monster]

Addendum II:

Almost, if not all, words in the song Monster ending with -ing are pronounced -een (MD's dialect). Has Michael done it in his songs too? Yes, in Workin' Day And Night or Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' (Common U.S. slang). However, I don't have impression that Michael does it systematically in all his songs, whereas Jason does it in all his songs on his albums.
 
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Wow Bumper you did a lot of work there in an area no one has done any reaserch on. VERY good :)

Had you not been in a passionate debate you may not have been motivated to do this research. A passionate debate helps strenthen your view becuase you have to dig deeper and search for more relevant arguments evidence and proof to back up your view. Had you guys not been debating you might both just be sitting on your laurels and not done half the work to hold up your beliefs ... Just saying ..

I wish you guys could keep it friendly and not take it so personal. Ive really enjoyed the back and forth and all the info you both bring to the table. maybe a short break is in order - but please dont leave
 
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