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Michael - The Great Album Debate

^^ Well, people change for whatever reasons, and she's also a teenager, so that's a confusing time for anyone in that time...You don't need her, she's obviously got more 'important' things on her mind..Stick to those that you can trust and that treat you right :)
 
love is magical said:
Jesta, the best is yet to come. College is a whole new different game. :shifty:
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True, I'll be with people that in theory share the same interests as me! I even saw a girl with a Thriller bag in my Film Studies class! Plus I'm entering in a Performing Arts class, which is basically combining Music, Dance and Drama... Even though I haven't got any prior experience in the first two aside from studying MJ and trying to tweak his moves in my own way and... Well, failing to sing in his technique! :D

Arklove said:
^^ Well, people change for whatever reasons, and she's also a teenager, so that's a confusing time for anyone in that time...You don't need her, she's obviously got more 'important' things on her mind..Stick to those that you can trust and that treat you right :)
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Thanks, Arky! :) It's thankfully been a long time since she tried to contact me, so hopefully she won't pull any tricks in college, seeing as it's a big place!
 
Pentum said:
Nice of you to pick these specific parts where it is most likely no lines overlapping, of course.
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give me a little credit, will you? at least in the area of intelligence. Of course they weren't random and I picked up parts that I believed to be one take to make my point.

I was introduced with the idea that every word was cut and pasted to remove the space that I mentioned and the flow effect was created. I aimed to debunk that. By agreeing that those parts aren't overlayed or cut - pasted we can agree upon that it's representative of the singer's technique that I am talking about.

Don't forget that Monster is sped up by + 6. Speed it down by - 6 and your "flow" disappears.
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elephant memory here. we did this debate before and bumper did a -5 for me. flow is there.

And flow in KYHU? Really? It's just ordinary singing...
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with an ease to it

Where's the "flow" in Soldier Boy?
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sorry I don't have soldier boy lying around but you do realize that it's supposed to be in a "marching" format.. rhythm of the song anyone?

I'm not the only one not buying this "keeping up with the song" excuse in this thread.
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so ? and I'm not only one that believes that Jason's ability to mimic Michael is not as good as you claim to be. Haven't there been people even said that they believe the vocals to be not Michael but not Jason as well?

Listen to all of Jason's songs, I'm sure you'll find a few where he doesn't "chop up words".
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elephant memory 2. yes in discussions with TPImaster I openly wrote that in one his his songs he can do the flow but cannot carry it through full song. In a discussion with bumper in regards to one of jason's acapella vocals I wrote he had a one perfect line and the rest was rubbish.

I still believe the flow/ease/ delivery - call it what you want- in the Cascio songs is beyond Jason's ability.

Remember that the Cascio songs are written by differenet people than Jason's former work. In Jason's songs, he just sings the songs like they first were given to him. Listen to Bigger Man and You Don't Have 2 Go writer's demo, you'll see that Jason sings exactly like the writer sings it. Maybe James Porte sung differently than the guy writing songs for Jason did, so Jason just changed his "flow"?
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so he's like playdoh? one moment his exactly singing like the writer , one moment like porte and another like Michael? Man he's so talented then and going to waste. but I listened to his "cry me a river" acapella. are you going to tell me what he's singing just like justin? and as for his former work the songs that he's been covering in his "album" and singing "exactly", I think most probably you'll find the originals as a background lead layer on his songs. that's how most amateurs work. the people I used to work with used to call it karaoke.

Again, I don't buy it.
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you don't have to.. I'm personally more likely to buy another and better sound alike then Jason.

Anyway, let's see. ()= overlapped.
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Thank you for that but I need a clarification please. overlap and words being cut and pasted from a lot of takes to form sentences are two different things. so now you and stella is making different arguments.

Looks like I was right. There is a lot of copy pasted lines (overlapping) in the Cascio songs. I can safely say that this also happens a lot in the rest of the unleaked songs, and I didn't even mention the copy pasted words that are repeated in the songs.

Like:

"You can look at them coming out the walls
You can look at them climbing out the bushes Same with"

"He's like an animal
just like an animal"

"He's dragging you down like a monster
He's keeping you down like a monster"

The "Why"'s towards the end, the "me"'s towards and even more. And this is just in Monster (thanks to Geso for finding this a long time ago).
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okay so certain words. what is your reasoning for this? what stopped jason being able to record "an animal", "them", "down like" multiple times? I mean overall he's so talented isn't he? why can't he record full lines and needed to be some parts to be pasted?

ever thought it could be because of Michael recorded them and some parts weren't good so they copied and pasted them from the parts / words he had done better? similar to the beatles song they pasted mccartney on to vocals of lennon to correct his weak spots.
 
Still doesn't explain the vibrato, snorts, matching pronounciation etc. All of which are an exact match for Jason. He makes the same snorts in the Cascio tracks that he does in his own songs. He has the same identical vibrato.
 
StellaJackson said:
Still doesn't explain the vibrato, snorts, matching pronounciation etc. All of which are an exact match for Jason. He makes the same snorts in the Cascio tracks that he does in his own songs. He has the same identical vibrato.
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GREAT point. If it's not Jason it's his twin brother :D
 
Hm, for some reason I doubt it's Jason's twin brother and it might actually be Jason himself. :ninja: I know, shocking, right?
 
Aniram said:
Hm, for some reason I doubt it's Jason's twin brother and it might actually be Jason himself. :ninja: I know, shocking, right?
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NO WAY....seriously? You must be kidding? Jason himself? That's breaking the news!! :p
 
StellaJackson said:
So many people returned the album when they heard the Cascio tracks. I played BN for someone today who knew nothing of this controversy. They said that there is no way that is Michael.
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Returned? Thanks didn't know that. My family also like MJ and have a slightly longer experience then me and they are so angry with what they have done
 
dam2040 said:
With copy/paste it is possible
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reminder

Originally Posted by Pentum
Nice of you to pick these specific parts where it is most likely no lines overlapping, of course.
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how did they have the flow on the parts that there are no lines overlapping? magic elves?

let me see if I get this straight. Jason is oh so talented that he can do the flow in the parts that I said with no need of overlapping and copy paste, yet he's so talentless that other parts he couldn't do it and he needed the help of copy/ paste / overlay... either he can do it on his own or he can't. which one is it?
 
Well he could record as many takes as he needed until he got it right, and if he couldn't get it right they could just copy-and-paste.

And how do you hear the flow in the parts where Jason's vocals have been mixed with Michael's "Why" and "me" from Invincible?

How is that a flow? :)
 
Ivy, I listened to the 'flow' that you were talking about in the songs you mentioned, and I still don't hear what you're hearing...I don't hear that clear distinction of spacing you're talking about...He sounds the same as on the Cascio tracks to me, he just does! lol...I concentrated real hard lol..I just don't hear it lol...

It was quite painful to listen, though :fear:
 
Still doesn't explain the snorts, vibrato and pronounciation. The flow you are hearing is artificially created. Individual words and lines are cut together. You aren't hearing someone sing a song or a verse. You are hearing multiple takes cut together in an admittedly clever, but very deceptive way. You only have to look at the volume adjustments and clipping on the waveform to see this. Multiple mikes were also used.
 
I hope ivy can explain how copying and pasting Michael's vocals from Invincible:

"So why ain't you feeling me?"

to make

"Why do you keep stalking me?"

... How is that a flow?

Or is it just to make it sound more like a real Michael Jackson song? That's what I believe.
 
Aniram said:
Well he could record as many takes as he needed until he got it right
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bingo... but he didn't right? they even had to cut and paste "an animal", "them" etc, right? even had to make the vocals fit the music.

what's the good of having an imposter and faking the songs if you can't record multiple times until you got it good and right?

, and if he couldn't get it right they could just copy-and-paste.
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and wouldn't it be harder for you to hear Jason if he either got it or with effects they were able to make him get it? doesn't it need to be less obvious then you claim to be?

And how do you hear the flow in the parts where Jason's vocals have been mixed with Michael's "Why" and "me" from Invincible?
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I don't hear Jason's vocals anywhere. and i never was talking about overlays.
 
It makes it sound a lot more consistent if you copy and paste the "an animal" and "them" part, ivy.

Jason may have been all over the place in the studio and they used the best takes.

I doubt Michael would have been "all over the place".
 
StellaJackson;3454999 said:
The flow you are hearing is artificially created. Individual words and lines are cut together. You aren't hearing someone sing a song or a verse. You are hearing multiple takes cut together in an admittedly clever, but very deceptive way. You only have to look at the volume adjustments and clipping on the waveform to see this. Multiple mikes were also used.
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Please point them out to me in the following parts
- individual words/lines that are cut and pasted.
-where the multiple takes are and
- where the volume differences are.

I believe you have the waveform and protools and know more than I do. It should be easy for you.

From Monster.

You can look at them coming out the walls
You can look at them climbing out the bushes
You can find them when the letter’s bout to fall
He be waiting with his camera on focus

Everywhere you seem to turn
there’s a monster
When you look up in the air there’s a monster
Paparazzi got you scared like a monster, monster, monster

same from kyhu

She's working two jobs, keeping alive,
She works in a restaurant night and day,
She waits her life away,
She wipes her tears away.
 
Jason did record multiple times until they got the best they could. Someone said something on another forum earlier which I think pretty much sums up where we are now so I'm going to quote it here: "I think we should all stop, take a moment to listen to "Burn Tonight", and think about what the hell we're debating here. Really."
 
StellaJackson said:
Jason did record multiple times until they got the best they could. Someone said something on another forum earlier which I think pretty much sums up where we are now so I'm going to quote it here: "I think we should all stop, take a moment to listen to "Burn Tonight", and think about what the hell we're debating here. Really."
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so no answer to my question? or are you saying that the parts I listed above are the best takes of Jason? and I'm indeed listening to someone sing a verse that's is not artificially created which is OPPOSITE to what you just claimed?
 
Well first off the word Monster is the same one, pasted in 4 times in that bit you posted. The first line is one take. Lines two and three another, line four is a from a third take. Lines five and six are cut to lines seven and eight. The word monster is also cut in as I said. "There's a" and the monsters are recorded at different levels to the rest in that section. The isolated vocal shows no mj trademark snaps or taps. For kyhu there are three lines from two takes - shes working two jobs is the first, keeping alive is the second and is cut in. Line three goes back to the first take. Lines three and four appear to be from the second take. Again, the isolated vocal shows no mj trademarks. However, background noise can be picked up on the enhanced lead vocal, most notably on BN. Meaning any finger snaps, grunts, foot taps or claps that Michael did should be audible. They are absent from all 12 songs. The grunts and breaths that you do hear such as the "ahs" etc are kept in seperate files labelled MJ breaths 1, MJ grunts 2 etc.
 
Great post, Stella. Don't know why we're even debating this anymore.
 
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