MJ and Queen world premiere!!!!!!!!!!!

[sonijacim]

I absolutely enjoy the new version, because it does not sound "contemporized" or updated, but like a real, timeless Queen song.

But as much as I like it and as much as I've also always liked the fanmade duet, the version that really touches my heart is and will always be the MJ solo demo with Freddie on piano. Two legends gone far too soon.

 

[Dangerous_Diana]

Finally I heard it, I liked it! :music:

 

[barbee0715]

I don't know why it would be a good thing not to know that there exist better versions of this song. The demos and fanmade versions show that this could have been done a lot better. That's not the fault of the leaks but Orbit's version. It's not amazing to me at all.

I'm definitely not as versed in Michael's complete discology, like most people on this forum. When I find a song on YouTube, I don't always know if it's a leak, stolen, unreleased or something that he might have released only in Europe or Asia. (unless it specifically says it's a fan remix).

But I don't know why some of these modern producers don't at least listen to some of the mixes made by fans on YouTube-then take something they like to a more professional, slick level-rather than try to recreate the wheel. Kinda like Michael's B team at Hayvenhurst does it, then Quincy's A team polishes it up.

Just a thought.

 

[Tygger]

Respect77, Queen is listed as part of the Sony/ATV catalog: http://www.sony.com/SCA/who-we-are/leadershipteam/martin-bandier.shtml

I do not know what the legal issue was between the Estate and Queen however; I suspect the Estate was not granted control as they were with Anka twice. Thus, Michael’s vocals would not eventually become a part of an Estate/Sony collaborative project. I do not believe the Estate foresaw the production disaster that happened with this duet. It is truly unfortunate because this is two amazing talents.

Queen has an amazing catalog. In my view, it would have been better for this song to remain a FM solo particularly on this upcoming cd.

InvincibleTal, I never said the Estate should promote it or that this was a small project. I said I believe the Estate should acknowledge the duet with a statement to fans. I also said I believe they are not acknowledging it because it is not an Estate/Sony product. Despite that, the man they represent is on the track so it is illogical to me that they do not acknowledge it. This is the first time I believe I heard Michael's vocals on a new project outside of an Estate/Sony collaboration since his passing. It will be interesting to see if this happens again in the future and the Estate's reaction.

I do agree with you however; that Xscape should be the focus for Estate promotion at this time.

 

[HIStory]

^ You say it's not an Estate/Sony project and that is the reason why they do not release a statment about it, but then you say Queen are a part of the Sony/ATV catalog. Isn't that contradictory?

Also the song is not yet officially released. Maybe they will address it when it is.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

^ You say it's not an Estate/Sony project and that is the reason why they do not release a statment about it, but then you say Queen are a part of the Sony/ATV catalog. Isn't that contradictory?

No, it's not contradictory, at all!

Being part of sony/atv catalog has nothing to do with projects headed by Estate/Sony (or where they have a say in).

There are a unprecedented number of artist in the sony/atv catalog. From Pink to Eminem to The Beatles, where the estate earns money through royalties.
That does not mean they have a say in how the projects by all these respective artists are produced/handled/managed/promoted. That's just part of the artist & his/their record label.

And, as it is, "TMBMTLTT/Queen Forever" is a Queen project. Handled by Queen & their label.
If Queen is part of sony/atv, then estate will earn through the royalties which will eventually be created through the release.
But the estate/sony won't have a say in how the product is handled/produced/sold/promoted.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

And, to give my personal view on the new mix we've heard on radio:

I really like the instrumentation of the track. Those Queen'ish guitars are perfect.

The job, done by william orbit was poor & very lazy.
It's not a duet anymore, how we all expected/believe it was intended to be. It's Queen feat. MJ now.
Those superb dynamics, like they were in the fan mix, when MJ & Freddie traded vocal lines are completely gone.
And how did he manage such a poor sound & different volume levels on the vocal tracks.
The verses are slapped together lazily & the sound is weak, like 96 kHz mp3.
- Poor job! -
(There's only hope left, that the officially released version is sound wise much improved, at the very least.)

What i don't understand:
-How can it be, that Queen hasn't heard their own track before the presentation on radio?
-Why they don't have the final say in how this new mix should sound?
-Why aren't they allowed to release their own mix or at least advise Orbit how it should have been done?

 

[HIStory]

No, it's not contradictory, at all!

Being part of sony/atv catalog has nothing to do with projects headed by Estate/Sony (or where they have a say in).

There are a unprecedented number of artist in the sony/atv catalog. From Pink to Eminem to The Beatles, where the estate earns money through royalties.
That does not mean they have a say in how the projects by all these respective artists are produced/handled/managed/promoted. That's just part of the artist & his/their record label.

And, as it is, "TMBMTLTT/Queen Forever" is a Queen project. Handled by Queen & their label.
If Queen is part of sony/atv, then estate will earn through the royalties which will eventually be created through the release.
But the estate/sony won't have a say in how the product is handled/produced/sold/promoted.

The discussion was not about the Estate having a say in the production/promotion. The suggestion was that the Estate/Sony does not care about this project because they do not make money of it. If Queen are part of the catalog then it's clearly not correct to say they don't make any money of it.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

The discussion was not about the Estate having a say in the production/promotion. The suggestion was that the Estate/Sony does not care about this project because they do not make money of it. If Queen are part of the catalog then it's clearly not correct to say they don't make any money of it.

They make money of eminem & pink & beatles releases also.
Yet they don't dictate what those releases have to be like.
Why? Because they don't have a say in that.
They just earn royalties if the songs of atv/sony catalog are played/sold.

It's simply 2 different pairs of shoes.
Michael Jackson/Estate projects: They have a say in about the execution.
Non MJ/Estate projects: No say in execution/handling of projects, just royalties.

And - yes - they'll make money of the Queen release - by collecting royalties.

 

[OnirMJ]

This is the first time I believe I heard Michael's vocals on a new project outside of an Estate/Sony collaboration since his passing. It will be interesting to see if this happens again in the future and the Estate's reaction.

Barry Gibb - All In Your Name.

Not released by Epic Records/Sony. Estate allowed the release, but I do not remember any statement or promotion from the Estate's part. Also it was released during MICHAEL album promotion in 2011 (after Behind The Mask and before (I Like) The Way You Love Me radio single - radio single in some countries).

 

[InvincibleMJ]

And the embarrassing This Is It DUET on Paul Anka's collection? Was there a MJ Estate press release?

 

[OnirMJ]

What i don't understand:
-How can it be, that Queen hasn't heard their own track before the presentation on radio?
-Why they don't have the final say in how this new mix should sound?
-Why aren't they allowed to release their own mix or at least advise Orbit how it should have been done?

They heard it multiple times, but never outside the studio - huge difference!
They do have the final say. They really liked the new version, they were just disappointed with mixing of the vocals (volume), and I believe they'll fix that.
Of course they are allowed, they just decided to go with William Orbit's version for some reason. Just like Rodney Jerkins decided not to release Xscape remix with 2Pac.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

+ I believe the MJ estate makes money of this duet regardless of the SonyATV catalog. That's how duets usually work.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

They heard it multiple times, but never outside the studio - huge difference!
They do have the final say. They really liked the new version, they were just disappointed with mixing of the vocals (volume), and I believe they'll fix that.
Of course they are allowed, they just decided to go with William Orbit's version for some reason. Just like Rodney Jerkins decided not to release Xscape remix with 2Pac.

Actually Onir, you make it sound like it's the first time an artist heard his own song outside the studio. Believe it or not, many of us heard many songs on the radio for the first time and it didn't sound as bad. I am aware to the fact radio stream is lowering the quality of the songs, and of course, the ultimate way (for private people) to hear a song is on a CD. For the artists - in the studio. Their comments on not hearing the song could mean what you think it is, but it can also mean what MJJuniorSinceMW understood, since they didn't really elaborate it, we can't know for sure. To me, they sounded very disappointed, enough to point their disappointment out on its premiere, when they should've been very excited and happy about it.

 

[OnirMJ]

Actually Onir, you make it sound like it's the first time an artist heard his own song outside the studio. Believe it or not, many of us heard many songs on the radio for the first time and it didn't sound as bad.

It is weird that they didn't play it on regular CD player, with regular speakers. They should have done that. Michael always listened to his albums on small speakers before allowing it to be released. That's how he knew that the album would sound amazing for everyone everywhere. Because if it's good on small speakers, it's good everywhere - on the radio, in the car...

Also it's just the volume of the vocals. It can be easily fixed.

 

[HIStory]

They make money of eminem & pink & beatles releases also.
Yet they don't dictate what those releases have to be like.
Why? Because they don't have a say in that.
They just earn royalties if the songs of atv/sony catalog are played/sold.

It's simply 2 different pairs of shoes.
Michael Jackson/Estate projects: They have a say in about the execution.
Non MJ/Estate projects: No say in execution/handling of projects, just royalties.

And - yes - they'll make money of the Queen release - by collecting royalties.

I'm not sure why you repeat this. No one said anything about the Estate dictating the release. Well, read my previous post:

The discussion was not about the Estate having a say in the production/promotion. The suggestion was that the Estate/Sony does not care about this project because they do not make money of it. If Queen are part of the catalog then it's clearly not correct to say they don't make any money of it.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Their comments on not hearing the song could mean what you think it is, but it can also mean what MJJuniorSinceMW understood, since they didn't really elaborate it, we can't know for sure. To me, they sounded very disappointed, enough to point their disappointment out on its premiere, when they should've been very excited and happy about it.

I agree. It's really unusual for artists plugging their product on a radio show to openly express disappointment over the mix immediately after the premiere of their single, and also big up their own mix of the single as opposed to the one on the album. It cd be that it was mj's estate who in granting permission had final say on which mix shd go on the album and they went for the orbit one.

 

[HIStory]

There is not any proof that the Orbit mix is a result of the Estate's doing in any way. In fact, Orbit is a long time friend of Brian May, I think. Queen have been pressuring the Estate for a long time to allow them to release this song and from what they kept telling it looked like the Estate have always been kind of reluctant. They needed a lot of pressuring until they finally allowed it. We don't know why. Considering the "quality" on some of the Estate projects (eg. Michael album) I think the production being weak is probably not the reason (although the production improved on the Xscape album and I think it's superior to this Orbit mix). I think maybe they were reluctant for it not to interfere with the Xscape campaign.

In any case, I don't know why we have to blame the MJ Estate for the Orbit remix. There is no proof they have anything to do with it. In fact, there is less MJ on this version than on the original. Why would they want that?

 

[OnirMJ]

In fact, there is less MJ on this version than on the original.

You mean fanmade. I think it is possible that only 2 vocal tapes that exist are MJ solo demo vocals and Freddie Mercury solo vocals (maybe different takes). I doubt Freddie recorded any vocals for it in Michael's home studio as he presented the demo to MJ. I think Freddie already had his vocals recorded (maybe from 1981). In my opinion they never traded vocal lines in the studio and that that demo which was played in Freddie Mercury documentary is professional edit of 2 vocals (just like the fanmade one). Because listening to the released version it is obvious that MJ solo demo and new version have the exact same MJ vocals.

 

[OnirMJ]

This sounds to me like professional edit (maybe early Queen mix) of MJ's solo demo and Freddie Mercury vocals and not like an actual duet in MJ's home studio recorded in 1983. Like I said I doubt they traded vocal lines in the studio. And also I think MJ recorded that demo in 1 take and that that is the only MJ vocals that exist for that song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ8YiHk8xWA

 

[HIStory]

You mean fanmade. I think it is possible that only 2 vocal tapes that exist are MJ solo demo vocals and Freddie Mercury solo vocals (maybe different takes). I doubt Freddie recorded any vocals for it in Michael's home studio as he presented the demo to MJ. I think Freddie already had his vocals recorded (maybe from 1981). In my opinion they never traded vocal lines in the studio and that that demo which was played in Freddie Mercury documentary is professional edit of 2 vocals (just like the fanmade one). Because listening to the released version it is obvious that MJ solo demo and new version have the exact same MJ vocals.

Well, I was referring to the one in that Freddie Mercury documentary which seems to have the same concept (trading vocals) as the fanmade version. Whether that is because that's how it was originally intended or they just took the idea from the fanmade version is anyone's guess. But the point is that there could have been more MJ on it, it could have been a real duet, instead it was turned into a "featuring" song. And I do not know why the MJ Estate would specifically request that. I see no evidence that the Orbit mix has anything to do with the Estate. That is my point. Wouldn't have May and Taylor said so if it was the case? "Well, we have our own version but the MJ Estate wanted this". They did not say anything like that.

 

[OnirMJ]

Well, I was referring to the one in that Freddie Mercury documentary which seems to have the same concept (trading vocals) as the fanmade version. Whether that is because that's how it was originally intended or they just took the idea from the fanmade version is anyone's guess. But the point is that there could have been more MJ on it, it could have been a real duet, instead it was turned into a "featuring" song. And I do not know why the MJ Estate would specifically request that. I see no evidence that the Orbit mix has anything to do with the Estate. That is my point. Wouldn't have May and Taylor said so if it was the case? "Well, we have our own version but the MJ Estate wanted this". They did not say anything like that.

I agree 100% with you on that one. In my opinion the Estate just granted them permission to use MJ vocals in any way they want. That's it. It was Queen's decision to bring William Orbit and it was their decision to include his mix on the album.

But listen to MJ vocals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ8YiHk8xWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm5HxGUFuE8

Same vocal take. It is professionally edited in the studio. Probably by Queen members in 2012-2014. I think Queen members did that mix (duet) mixing the 2 separate vocals. And William Orbit decided not to, but to make "featuring version" but using the exact same vocal take from MJ (just different parts).

 

[Bonnie Blue]

In any case, I don't know why we have to blame the MJ Estate for the Orbit remix. There is no proof they have anything to do with it. In fact, there is less MJ on this version than on the original. Why would they want that?

It's not a case of 'blaming' the estate, as that just assumes the orbit mix is the wrong one for the album - it seems on this forum some like it, some don't, it's down to personal preference. I was just trying to understand why queen members were openly bigging up their own mix and expressing some disappointment when the orbit mix was played. They were meant to be on the radio to promote this new song - it was an odd thing to do. It certainly gave me the impression that they didn't have the final say - i was only speculating on how that cd be.

 

[OnirMJ]

It's not a case of 'blaming' the estate, as that just assumes the orbit mix is the wrong one for the album - it seems on this forum some like it, some don't, it's down to personal preference. I was just trying to understand why queen members were openly bigging up their own mix and expressing some disappointment when the orbit mix was played. They were meant to be on the radio to promote this new song - it was an odd thing to do. It certainly gave me the impression that they didn't have the final say - i was only speculating on how that cd be.

Weird situation it was for sure. But William is their close friend and they trust him. They absolutely have the final say - it's their album. They just think that maybe William's version would be better for the radio or massive public - maybe it's more commercially attractive or more radio friendly and theirs is maybe more rock. Their only problem with it was vocal loudness, not the music or production.

 

[HIStory]

It's not a case of 'blaming' the estate, as that just assumes the orbit mix is the wrong one for the album - it seems on this forum some like it, some don't, it's down to personal preference.
I was just trying to understand why queen members were openly bigging up their own mix and expressing some disappointment when the orbit mix was played. They were meant to be on the radio to promote this new song - it was an odd thing to do. It certainly gave me the impression that they didn't have the final say - i was only speculating on how that cd be.

They expressed disappointment but they never said or suggested the choice had to do with the MJ Estate.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

I don't understand why everytime there's a project some people are trying to point fingers at the estate (not promoting\doing it all for money or control\dictating Brian and Roger) even though it's pretty obvious they had nothing to do with it. And then the discussion goes down to pros and cons of the estate, this is just tiring.

Bonnie, you and I both agree it was weird that their expressed their disappointment while they're supposed to promote the album. It made them look like they didn't have the final say - though we could be reading this wrong. Anyway, I doubt MJ Estate brought WO in, because it looks like they didn't do anything but granting Queen the right to release it (it actually looks like they were kind of forced to agreeing). Don't forget Queen has their own "bosses", there's a record company behind them. Just like LA Reid brought Timbaland and the others - there's some other CEO that made some of the big decisions here (if it wasn't Brian May and Roger Taylor). Big surprise - Sony is probably not the only record company that dictates their artists sometimes. Not gonna bother myself with Queen politics though, we already have enough of this here.

 

[OnirMJ]

Just wanted to say that it was not some CEO or record label who brought William Orbit. It was Queen's decision. He is great producer and their personal friend. They finished the project by themself and then handed over the finished songs to their record label. It's nothing like LA Reid including producers of his choice.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Wish the mixing on it was better. It's awful. I do love the instrumentation though. Hopefully the mix is improved before release. Wish there was more mj on it too but it is a queen project so I understand

 

[Annita]

They expressed disappointment but they never said or suggested the choice had to do with the MJ Estate.

And sure they would it if this was the case. They more then once blamed the Estate that they waited for permission for relase and it was long clear on this point that William Orbit are the man who was working on the song, Orbit himself was on radio station month ago, I think even with some Queen member and spoke about the song. It`s all in this thread.

Edit: They are playing all 3 new Queen-songs on SWR1/Germany this evening. One for about 15 minutes. The next two including the MJ-song will come in the next hour.

 

[Tygger]

The discussion was not about the Estate having a say in the production/promotion. The suggestion was that the Estate/Sony does not care about this project because they do not make money of it. If Queen are part of the catalog then it's clearly not correct to say they don't make any money of it.

Respect77, yes, what MJJuniorSinceMW said regarding the Sony/ATV catalog. Queen is indeed in the Sony/ATV catalog. I did not suggest the Estate would not be enriched from Queen's project. On the contrary, I said they would be.

What I also said was this: the duet is not an Estate/Sony project so I believe that is why the Estate is not ACKNOWLEDGING the duet with a statement to fans. Acknowledgement is not the same as the promotion that is done with Estate/Sony projects such as Jeep commercials, videos, etc. This duet is not an Estate/Sony project obviously so, I believe this is why the Estate did not acknowledge that there will be a duet released with Michael’s vocals; the man they happen to represent.


OnirMJ, InvincibleTal, thank you as I forgot about the Gibbs and Anka duets. I see there is a precedent for not acknowledging these duets and that there will be no acknowledgement of any future duets that occur outside of the Estate/Sony collaboration. I noticed it this time because I enjoy Queen/FM and was looking forward to the duet. (I am still looking forward to this upcoming cd.) I just found it a bit illogical there was no acknowledgement as it is still Michael’s vocals on the track.