Muhammad in the Bible

[HIStory]

I don't think there is a God, I don't think there is Heaven or Hell. I used to be religious until I didn't find out how all these "holy books" are full of errors and flaws to be God's word. They are also full of cruelty by the way. Religion is brainwashing of the masses and a mean to control them.

 

[Garden]

I don't think there is a God, I don't think there is Heaven or Hell. I used to be religious until I didn't find out how all these "holy books" are full of errors and flaws to be God's word. They are also full of cruelty by the way. Religion is brainwashing of the masses and a mean to control them.

I understand about the Books. They were "given" at a certain time, to a certain people that had a culture, a civilisation, that lived on a certain geographic area. Now there is said that those Books all for all time and places... and that's the problem. While some litteralists think that for instance certain "laws" coming from the Books are applicable nowadays... That can't be the meaning. I agree that the Essence of the Books can be for all time, but other, certain culture-associated things for instance, are to be interpreted following the spirit of what was said, not litterally.
For instance the Quran : nowadays normal ortodox Muslim states don't chop off hands anymore as punishment for theft. Some extreme litteralists still would. They sicken the religion, they make it disgusting to the eyes of all world.

Second thing you said : religion is brainwashing of the masses and a mean to control them.
Unfortunately, yes in many countries it is. But that's not the fault of the religion, it's the fault of the political and religious leaders in those countries. Religion makes it possible, simply because those who have and want to assure power use the litteralist way of reading the Books, Books that were given to a society in Ancienity Era.

 

[Alma]

I don't think there is a God, I don't think there is Heaven or Hell. I used to be religious until I didn't find out how all these "holy books" are full of errors and flaws to be God's word. They are also full of cruelty by the way. Religion is brainwashing of the masses and a mean to control them.

... Please, don't put all religions in the same pot, even though some religions are indeed faulty and even mere heresies. But most of all, please, don't insult God publicly by denying his existence, stating such extreme opinions and inciting to nihilism, precisely on the 3rd day of Christmas. Miracles in this world do exist, the primordial ones being the genesis of this very world, who got to the way it is now because of Man and Man only. Just because some are miserable in this life, or mere rebels, that doesn't mean it's God's fault or the fault of His imagined non-existence, but because of the respective beings themselves. The existence of these many religions, I agree, it's confusing, it should've only been one, but they were created by man and by means of the separation of people, nothing to do with God.

It's because of such godlessness that the world is as weak and tormented as it is and one day it will be over and done with. Seeing so many agnostics and atheists is a horrible, imminent sign that things can't get any better. That's the enemy in action and I'll say it without fear that opinions, if not convictions like these shouldn't expect to be respected.

...

 

[Ohood]

Please, don't put all religions in the same pot, even though some religions are indeed faulty and even mere heresies.

how do you expect people to respect your religion and you're God if you do not give them the same respect....you have to read the previous posts,,,there is nothing called a faulty religion ,,,,or a faulty book ,,,,, or a faulty God....every people love what they believe can help them find their inner peace ,,,,,

we love religions becuase they help us to feel that one day we'll meet those we love once more and that one day there will be justice for those who suffered the most....


but other people did not find this idea charming , they seem to be very realistic and able to survive even without these beliefs,,,good for them , they can take it better than we do !

 

[Alma]

how do you expect people to respect your religion and you're God if you do not give them the same respect....

My God isn't mine, it's anyone's who believe in Him. Anyone having their own God isn't the real God, but the one that makes them more comfortable or were raised with. There are many religions, but one God only. The person whom I was replying to said religion is brainwashing people and whatever else they said, which means they don't believe in none anymore. And I'm not expecting any religion to respect my religion, since I've not revealed it in the first place, not to mention I wasn't naming the religions whose creeds I don't agree with and have the right not to. Of course, the immediate reply would be "Well, then, you should respect other beliefs, too, like the non-beliefs or confusions of agnostics or atheists", and the most a believer could do about this is say "There's no use anyway, one's mind most often can't be changed, since they're so against something this huge"..

Respect... Watch the world around you and see how all falls down, that respect is the last thing on the mind. Prayer is a first.

...

 

[xo_lola_xo]

Alma, honey, I can't help but notice that you have been bringing up your religious beliefs in many threads. Although I agree with your beliefs, I don't feel the need to throw them on people. It's between me and God. It's the "I'm always right" kind of attitude that makes people dislike religion.

 

[spoonie]

I am in an inter-faith relationship (I am a Christian and my boyfriend is a Muslim) and it has never been a problem as we're both respectful of others when it comes to religion. We acknowledge each others religious occasions and are not against each others belief as for a start Jesus is in the Qu'ran and I am happy to accept Muhammed is in the bible given the evidence. It is not something we really bring up a lot anyway.

At the end of the day we both believe that as we are both following a religion (even if they are different) that means one very important thing; we both worship God, and yes the same God - no matter what we call Him, He is still the same God.

United, not divided when it comes to God, I believe respect and understanding is the key and knowing that we are following the same God feels good to me

 

[FUJON]

^^^^ I love your post !

Juses is Love , for love and to love !

personally i wish that i can tell Juses Christ to not help Sneddon with his sins,,i'm afraid that he will end next to MJ in heaves.since Juses will forgive all his sins and save him so he will be as innocent as Michael... and what if Daian Dimond was there too ,,,i'll run out of Heaves altogether !

i hope Heavens are large enough so that i won't see Sneddon and the Arviso's there ,,,

i pray to all Holy & Divine things in the skies and lands ! that i will not end up seeing the horrible so-called believers near me in Heaves otherwise i'll comeback to Earth !


by the way , In some religions ,,Earth itself will become the Heavens , intresting, right ?
that's why i always urge people to take care of Earth , we may stay here forever

If a believer sins, they are not already forgiven, they need to repent.
Repentance means Recognition, Remorse, Rejection and willing to change as a new person.

I wish to see people awakening and understand their sins, mistakes,
understand what wrong they have done, etc...

Isaiah writes that the new Heavens and the new Earth will be created.
The new Earth is a place where God's people will dwell in safety with Him.
And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And Satan will be destroyed.

Then our spirits will unite with our glorious resurrection bodies and we will
enjoy the fullness of salvation in God's presence forever.
Our resurrection bodies will be raised in glory. We shall be like Jesus, in the brightness of His glory.

and please, remember Michale's message from TII:

Michael: ''... and we are family. Just know that. We are a family. You have to put love back into the world. To remind the world that LOVE is important. Love is important. To love each other. We are all one. There's a message...
Take care of the Planet. We have four years to get it right. Or else it's irreversible damage we've done. So I have an important message to give. Okay. It's important. I thank you for your cooperation. It's important. Thank You. Big Thank You...''

 

[Alma]

Alma, honey, I can't help but notice that you have been bringing up your religious beliefs in many threads. Although I agree with your beliefs, I don't feel the need to throw them on people. It's between me and God. It's the "I'm always right" kind of attitude that makes people dislike religion.

The truth is this: that there are many religions, but one God only, not an opinion. I'm not starting up controversies where I always wanna triumph. It's people not reading properly what it's being demonstrated. Not opening their eyes to see a crumbling world, because of sinking into their rebellious misery, where they'll only find nihilism. If it's okay to play silent about that to some, not everyone can stay silent, and respecting other people's manifestations against such erroneous thinking is indicated. Making others aware, not staying indifferent and selfish. It's often useless, but maybe, one day, their subconscious mind will prove effective. This "I'm always right" argument is meant for dialectics only and it's often used with no substance at all and to just shut others up.

But like a minister once said to me, some people aren't worth it, and although, it may have seemed cold, it wasn't.

 

[Alma]

If a believer sins, they are not already forgiven, they need to repent.
Repentance means Recognition, Remorse, Rejection and willing to change as a new person.

I wish to see people awakening and understand their sins, mistakes,
understand what wrong they have done, etc...

Isaiah writes that the new Heavens and the new Earth will be created.
The new Earth is a place where God's people will dwell in safety with Him.
And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And Satan will be destroyed.

Then our spirits will unite with our glorious resurrection bodies and we will
enjoy the fullness of salvation in God's presence forever.
Our resurrection bodies will be raised in glory. We shall be like Jesus, in the brightness of His glory.

and please, remember Michale's message from TII:

Michael: ''... and we are family. Just know that. We are a family. You have to put love back into the world. To remind the world that LOVE is important. Love is important. To love each other. We are all one. There's a message...
Take care of the Planet. We have four years to get it right. Or else it's irreversible damage we've done. So I have an important message to give. Okay. It's important. I thank you for your cooperation. It's important. Thank You. Big Thank You...''

Thank you, Fujon, for this post... Will more care to listen to that, it doesn't seem likely...

How can some remain calm or too respectful at hearing/reading how others don't believe there is Higher Source, nor heaven, nor hell? Even the enemy does. If some bring this matter up, that it's wrong to feel that way, which it is, we're deemed as people who always wanna be right.. They're missing the whole point and there goes every sincere endeavor of yours down the drain. ..

 

[xo_lola_xo]

The truth is this: that there are many religions, but one God only, not an opinion. I'm not starting up controversies where I always wanna triumph. It's people not reading properly what it's being demonstrated. Not opening their eyes to see a crumbling world, because of sinking into their rebellious misery, where they'll only find nihilism. If it's okay to play silent about that to some, not everyone can stay silent, and respecting other people's manifestations against such erroneous thinking is indicated. Making others aware, not staying indifferent and selfish. It's often useless, but maybe, one day, their subconscious mind will prove effective. This "I'm always right" argument is meant for dialectics only and it's often used with no substance at all and to just shut others up.

But like a minister once said to me, some people aren't worth it, and although, it may have seemed cold, it wasn't.

I do agree with that BUT..

You can't look down on Athiests. Seriously. For one, you cannot expect people to see things your way, respect or possibly join you if you are hostile towards them and just look down upon them. This even pushes people who do believe in God away. It gives religion a bad name. It comes off as intolerant. Another reason, do you notice that you and I are only human? Well so are they! We aren't perfect and neither are Athiests and we have no right, whatsoever, to place judgment upon them.

I understand your theory that we have to open up more to God to make the world a better place and I totally agree! In fact, I pray every night, asking him to bring more people to his light but remember, just because someone does not believe in God, it does not make them a bad person. It does not make them immoral. You get honest Athiest and also believers who are as hypocritical as it can get. Christianity focuses on love, tolerance, mercy and forgiveness. Some Christians would benefit highly if they followed the teachings.

P.S. Hindus believe in many Gods. I believe in one but let's let them be.

 

[xo_lola_xo]

Thank you, Fujon, for this post... Will more care to listen to that, it doesn't seem likely...

How can some remain calm or too respectful at hearing/reading how others don't believe there is Higher Source, nor heaven, nor hell? Even the enemy does. If some bring this matter up, that it's wrong to feel that way, which it is, we're deemed as people who always wanna be right.. They're missing the whole point and there goes every sincere endeavor of yours down the drain. ..

Enemy?

Enemy?

The enemy?

If you have ANY enemies, you can throw ALL hopes of a better world RIGHT out the window, darling.

Don't expect people to love you when your love is limited.

Do you love your enemies? Do you pray for them?
It seems as if you're overlooking Jesus' #1 lesson.

 

[Alma]

Enemy?

Enemy?

The enemy?

If you have ANY enemies, you can throw ALL hopes of a better world RIGHT out the window, darling.

Don't expect people to love you when your love is limited.

Do you love your enemies? Do you pray for them?
It seems as if you're overlooking Jesus' #1 lesson.

Obviously (for some), the word 'enemy' is the devil itself. I wasn't talking about your regular foe versus friend, so your assumptions are again rushed, and strongly suggest that you need to read more carefully before replying and accusing people. Not to mention sarcastically calling them 'darling', or 'honey'. All I wrote is that I don't respect atheism or agnosticism, the denying of God mostly, not the persons themselves who need all the praying for. I wrote:

"If it's okay to play silent about that to some, not everyone can stay silent, and respecting other people's manifestations against such erroneous thinking is indicated." "That's the enemy in action and I'll say it without fear that opinions, if not convictions like these shouldn't expect to be respected." "Prayer is a first". That's what reading selectively is....

I do pray for these people every night, esp. since they're getting more and more, otherwise I won't be bothering to consume myself like that. I did say some people aren't worth the bother of explaining to them things. Because most won't listen to what countradicts their ideas and mentality and it's getting evident in threads like these. ... If you have a further personal curiosity, interrogate me via PM, not turn this thread or make me turn it about me, I'm no one to be recognized, thank you.

...

 

[Alma]

You get honest Athiest and also believers who are as hypocritical as it can get. Christianity focuses on love, tolerance, mercy and forgiveness. Some Christians would benefit highly if they followed the teachings.

The first assertion I singled out is indeed true.. Calling oneself a Christian or of any other religion without faith practice is like being a glass with no water.

I'm very much trying to follow my teachings, hence these posts.... precisely because of that, some... dare to disagree and point out the wrong issue of being a nihilist, esp. at Christmas time, without having to fear of being trolled. When you are a nihilist, you're losing your soul in time. You can love other people even though you disagree with them and chastize them for it, even more so than being quite. That's not nonsensical ramble, but caring about their fate. Being like a cold shower sometimes, although that's doomed to not work often, sadly... I have friends who are agnostic and/or believe in their own god, and I love them very much, as they are wonderful, I'm not discrediting the person's nature. Shutting up often means indifference, so I sometimes tell them "Look... this and that..." They don't listen, but I hope, somehow, they'll do one day. Some people would very much benefit if they weren't such brickwalls, or accept mostly anything and accuse others of hypocrisy in vain.

...

I'm done.. Useless trying to explain things like that, one's only ending up sounding like a lunatic and proud being, that's very true.

 

[zizousama]

I understand about the Books. They were "given" at a certain time, to a certain people that had a culture, a civilisation, that lived on a certain geographic area. Now there is said that those Books all for all time and places... and that's the problem. While some litteralists think that for instance certain "laws" coming from the Books are applicable nowadays... That can't be the meaning. I agree that the Essence of the Books can be for all time, but other, certain culture-associated things for instance, are to be interpreted following the spirit of what was said, not litterally.
For instance the Quran : nowadays normal ortodox Muslim states don't chop off hands anymore as punishment for theft. Some extreme litteralists still would. They sicken the religion, they make it disgusting to the eyes of all world.

Second thing you said : religion is brainwashing of the masses and a mean to control them.
Unfortunately, yes in many countries it is. But that's not the fault of the religion, it's the fault of the political and religious leaders in those countries. Religion makes it possible, simply because those who have and want to assure power use the litteralist way of reading the Books, Books that were given to a society in Ancienity Era.

The judgements in the Quran anr meant to be followed in all eras and times. It is just that some do not understand how they work. Some think that EVEYONE that steals gets their hand cut or everyone that caused someone else's death would be killed. It is not that simple. It is a very detailed proccess. Many factors are studied to determine if a certain crime deserves its ultimate punishement.

For example, when someone steals we look at the following:

1) Is the theif an adult of sound mind and judgement?

2) What was stolen. Is it and item that is valuable of the common man? Or, is it something trivial that wouldn't bother most people? If someone steals 10 bucks, we don't cut off their hand.

3) Why did the theif commit the theft? Is it because they really needed the money to save their lives or not?

4) Where did they steal from? Did they steal something that was secured? Or, was the item poorly kept? If you leave your car running in the street, do not be surprised someone stole it.

5) Did they know of the punishment for the crime they committed? Authorities can say for sure that I, for example, know the punishment for stealing having lived in Saudi Arabia and attended all school grade there.

There are other considerations that are beyond my knowledge.

Of course, the victim can always forgive and is encouraged to do so. The well being of the community must not be taken lightly.

 

[xo_lola_xo]

The judgements in the Quran anr meant to be followed in all eras and times. It is just that some do not understand how they work. Some think that EVEYONE that steals gets their hand cut or everyone that caused someone else's death would be killed. It is not that simple. It is a very detailed proccess. Many factors are studied to determine if a certain crime deserves its ultimate punishement.

For example, when someone steals we look at the following:

1) Is the theif an adult of sound mind and judgement?

2) What was stolen. Is it and item that is valuable of the common man? Or, is it something trivial that wouldn't bother most people? If someone steals 10 bucks, we don't cut off their hand.

3) Why did the theif commit the theft? Is it because they really needed the money to save their lives or not?

4) Where did they steal from? Did they steal something that was secured? Or, was the item poorly kept? If you leave your car running in the street, do not be surprised someone stole it.

5) Did they know of the punishment for the crime they committed? Authorities can say for sure that I, for example, know the punishment for stealing having lived in Saudi Arabia and attended all school grade there.

There are other considerations that are beyond my knowledge.

Of course, the victim can always forgive and is encouraged to do so. The well being of the community must not be taken lightly.

First of all, what kind of LOGIC is point #4? Yes, it's not smart to leave a car running but it gives NOBODY the right to steal it. It's wrong. It's a sin and a crime. Jeez.

You live in Saudi Arabia so clearly it is accepted to chop people's hands off or kill them or want 4 witnesses if a woman says she was raped (like are you kidding? who's gonna rape someone in front of 4 people?) but...

For someone living in the UK, it's totally barbaric to do that. No matter how many factors you put on it. I think Sharia law is probably the 3rd reason why I left Islam. (It's funny to know that in many arabic countries, I am worthy of the death penalty)

I think governments should all seperate from religion. Even Western countries, when they were theocracies hundreds of years ago, were in my opinion, evil and barbaric. It is undemocratic and a threat to human rights and unfortunatly, it has caused some countries in the world to violate human rights and be undemocratic, e.g. Saudi Arabia and Iran. (Yes, I know you can vote in Iran but that is democracy on paper. That's just the basic. It's not democratic when a woman cannot be a lawyer)

 

[Ohood]

^ i'm so sorry that you Zenab try hard to disrespect every country and every opinion that u do not like !

it seems that you niether Christain nor Muslim or Libeal ... you need to find out what you are before you fight with others and disrespect their faith, traditions or contries's local and private affairs !

respect is something u need to understand first and before everything else !

 

[xo_lola_xo]

^ i'm so sorry that you Zenab try hard to disrespect every country and every opinion that u do not like !

it seems that you niether Christain nor Muslim or Libeal ... you need to find out what you are before you fight with others and disrespect their faith, traditions or contries's local and private affairs !

respect is something u need to understand first and before everything else !

So I'm saying it's wrong that people get the death penality for changing their religion in some countries, women need FOUR EYE witnesses to prove they have been raped otherwise it is deemed to have been adultery, in Iran, women cannot become lawyers yet you say I must respect that because it's law in other countries? And that I am not liberal because I am against that? Then who are the liberals? Those who practice and preach them?

Are those laws right in your eyes? Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right. Are you saying that we should keep our views silent simply because it offends some people? In some nations, the human life is not so well respected and what shall we do about it? Limit our own freedom of speech?

What about the people who have suffered from corrupt legal systems simply because they have changed their religion/have had sex outside of marriage/ are homosexuals? Is it right that this still occurs in the 21st century? Is this what you are defending? Look at how the United Nations has been trying to put pressure on nations who still allow death by stoning.

How can you tell me to "respect" when you turn a blind eye to the unfairnesses and unequalities in some nations? What shall I respect? Dictatorships? If you say so...

 

[Alma]

I agree. Such extreme measures are highly totalitarian and cruel. Death penalty, esp. for minor aspects, not for stealing or killing, is simply a measure against humankind, too primeval for words, even prison is a terrible measure for things other than stealing, killing, raping and the like.. Can't understand how some people/nations can justify killing/murdering. Like hunting animals for their meat or for show, like matadors killing the bulls, another criminal act to do, that, in the 21st century, still is accepted. One must not take the life of other, nor of one's self, no matter what, it's up to God to decide, He created man and gave him life, no matter how sinful he becomes.

 

[xo_lola_xo]

I agree. Such extreme measures are highly totalitarian and cruel. Death penalty, esp. for minor aspects, not for stealing or killing, is simply a measure against humankind, too primeval for words, even prison is a terrible measure for things other than stealing, killing, raping and the like.. Can't understand how some people/nations can justify killing/murdering. Like hunting animals for their meat or for show, like matadors killing the bulls, another criminal act to do, that, in the 21st century, still is accepted. One must not take the life of other, nor of one's self, no matter what, it's up to God to decide, He created man and gave him life, no matter how sinful he becomes.

AMEN!

This is what I'm trying to say. And she/he says I'm disrespectful and extreme. LOL.

 

[MJLoverForEver]

Ohood, wrote the following
“personally i find it very interesting to know about different religions because these religions are based on cultures mainly ,,,so to have different religions is like knowing different cultures....do not freak out ! just read and read and read more about all the religions in the world and about the political and artistic revolutions,,,,all these things TOGETHER , not one of them and without rejecting any of them will make you happy”
And I totally agree with you. A preacher called Charles Price said this, There are three levels you can know about God. One is by looking at his creation. We see sky, earth, mountains, ocean, animals, people etc and you come to conclusion that, there must be someone somewhere who created this. Whether you call him/her God, this is an indication that, who ever is, can not be one of us, or anything among the created. It has to be powerful than all. Anotherway people recognize got is through religions.
Everywhere on earth, people have a form of worship. They feel that void in them, incompleteness that has to be filled with something higher than them. Some may imagine that higher source as mountain, cow, or their ancestors who died and they will make a figure as their representative to convey their worship and sacrifices. If you read history you will realize that, religion have always been there allover the world. Even Jesus Christ talked about it sometimes, and he didn’t like them, because religious have one thing in common. They have fixed way to reach to their God. But God is not fixed or cannot be represented by something. But this is not to deny what Jesus said “ I am the only truth and way to God. No one will see my father except through me” With this Jesus meant understanding his ways of life, how we conduct our lives. How we abide to the ways of this world or avoid evil and lien to God, in his word which we know through Jesus-his teachings
Mr. Price finished by saying that, the third way (which I think is the better way to know God) is personal way of knowing God.
Someone here mentioned that we need to find God in our hearts. I agree is the better way. We can’t rely on what we are told by others. That is why is critical to read about God on our own. If you think the bible is sufficient for you to know God, then search no more of what you have found. If you find that Koran is not elaborating in details about God, enough for you to know him and worm a personal relationship, then, find another book or teachings that talks about him better. Because in the end, it is for your own benefit in knowing God. God is there to welcome anyone who seeks him. Knowing God is personal. It can’t be universal or for category of people, however, all of those who know God in same matter, belong to same group although they may not know each other for they may be allover the world. And it doesn’t matter which religion you attend Friday, Saturday or Sunday. It is about what is in your heart.
You see, Michael was very critical. They say that he used to ask a lot of questions while he was attending Jehovah witness. And I think this the best way to learn. Every one can agree that most of good students, who end up discover things in specific subject, are those who are critical
At the end I agree with most of you that, Jesus brought us the best way to see, understand and experience God because he teaches us HOW. He told his disciples that he will send them a holly spirit who will reveal all his said, the word of God to them-to us. And I do agree very much because there is no way we can avoid the evil, the temptation of this world that surround us. Religions were trying to make sense of it, who is this higher source. And each society, had their own interpretation. Today, we are still struggling to make sense of it. Jesus defined who God is and what God expect of us. When you understand this, you will also know that Jesus is son of God because of all the details he knew about God.
By the way, Jesus baptized in holly spirit and not in water and we read in the bible Peter asking some of those who were had just started following Jesus ways. He asked them if they received baptism in holly spirit and they answered no. Many believers are failing because they lack the most important part of being Christian-meaning, those who follow Jesus ways, not Christian as religion.
Does this mean that other religion don’t follow Jesus teachings? I don’t think so. It is up to the individual what you understand and how you put it in practice

 

[HIStory]

All religions are correct , there is no wrong religion...even in the same religion all parties are correct... I believ in all these men and woman all of them and i believe in all holy books and i understand that this is like the different shapes of the hand's finger , the hand will be useless with only one size or shape of fingers....yes, i believe in Muhammad as much as i beelive in Juese and Mouses ....this is what My open minded mother taught me ! bless her heart !

How can they all be correct when they often teach contradictory things? How can the God in the Bible and the God in the Quran be the same God? Have you read these books?

(For the record, I don't believe in any of these so called gods. My view is that all religions are man-made.)

 

[Garden]

Hi, I come rarely in this thread. The subject is too complicated !
Well I read a couple of posts today and... the only thing I would say = those who want to seriously discuss religions should do a comparative study of religions. Some univs have that faculty. Very interesting are the "help-sciences" like origins and pychologie of religion.
Or read about it. First of all the "classic" works :
Go to the bib and read William James, Mircea Eliade... sorry I don't know the titles in English, I am a dutch reader .
And enjoy religions !

Love,

 

[smoothcriminal12]

Muhammed is not in the Bible. Definitely not. Unless he is mentioned by name, then he is not in the Bible. Islam and Christianity, much like Judaism and Christianity, simply cannot coexist due to the major differences in belief and theology.

 

[Alma]

How can they all be correct when they often teach contradictory things? How can the God in the Bible and the God in the Quran be the same God?

I agree with this part of your post. It looks like some are believing there are many different realities and they are choosing to believe in those that suits either their personality or go along with what they've been taught to believe (from their family, for instance). But there is only one reality, others are reproductions, how can there be more, this isn't sci-fi or make-belief.

 

[MJLoverForEver]

I agree with this part of your post. It looks like some are believing there are many different realities and they are choosing to believe in those that suits either their personality or go along with what they've been taught to believe (from their family, for instance). But there is only one reality, others are reproductions, how can there be more, this isn't sci-fi or make-belief.

I do agree that Jesus taught us the direct way to God. That conclusion is based on the fact that I read the bible and understand it. I have not read a Quran, Judism or any other, therefore, I can't come to the conclusion that they did not follow Jesus way in their teachings. It could be that they have that aspect but expained differently. Until someone tells us what they believe in, we cant juge. And remember, being lebeled Christian just because you were born Catholic, Pentecost, etc, doesn't make you a christian. A christian is relationship with you and God by following Jesus way. Simple. A Muslim born could be following these teachings of Jesus, where, he believe in Jesus or not. The point is conducting your life according to Jesus way.

 

[Alma]

And remember, being lebeled Christian just because you were born Catholic, Pentecost, etc, doesn't make you a christian. A christian is relationship with you and God by following Jesus way. Simple. A Muslim born could be following these teachings of Jesus, where, he believe in Jesus or not. The point is conducting your life according to Jesus way.

I agree, but not wholeheartedly.. It's starting to sound like one is imposing a certain spiritual path over the other. Or spirituality outside religion. Many are believing that being baptized in the Holy Water like Jesus was And following His teachings and going to church all your life is what makes someone a Christian in every sense of the word, as opposed to just believing in him and praying to Him from home, praying together with a group of people at church, not only at home. So, I won't go further with this, religious debates never end well, sadly. ..

 

[MJLoverForEver]

I agree, but not wholeheartedly.. It's starting to sound like one is imposing a certain spiritual path over the other. Or spirituality outside religion. Many are believing that being baptized in the Holy Water like Jesus was And following His teachings and going to church all your life is what makes someone a Christian in every sense of the word, as opposed to just believing in him and praying to Him from home, praying together with a group of people at church, not only at home. So, I won't go further with this, religious debates never end well, sadly. ..

You are right.
Spirituality has nothing to do with going to church or mosque or snagouge etc. It is believing in God. At the same time, you can't believe in what you don't know. That is where teachings of word of God becomes necessary. Now, if you are a kind of person who like to pursue things to know the real truth, you will find that, the bible in histoey of Jesus, decribe verywell what God wants of to be and do, in order to become his children. This is about re-establishing a broken relationship. When God created Adam, he had made him with pure heart and LOVE enough to have relation with God without so called SIN-which we all know, keeps us away from seing the glorie of God.
In the same bible we read that God tried to establish that relationship back by giving us messages through messangers, but the ruler of this world-Devil will make sure the message doesn't get that far. In some cases, he would twist the message and people will endup not following. At last God came on earth himself as Jesus. This way, he could live our daily lives and show us how to go about it. Therefore, if you follow Jesus teachings, which you will know either because your were taught by someone or you read the bible(or other teaching,s if any) yourself.
In most cases, both are needed. Your parents can be those teachers to give you basics and then you can read the rest on your own to graspe as much as needed.
Do we have to go to church for this? not necessarly, but if you dont have enough basis, it is better to go to church and learn.
Even Jesus said" there will be time when you will not need to go to Jerusalem.." He also said "You will pray better when you will pray from your heart..." When people have understood what the word of God is all about, they understand these things. At the sametime, I am not saying that going to church is not necessary. It depends on you real, but is not compasory for someone to be christian.
That being said, I do believe that following his teachings are the true way to knowing God. Now, it should be clear that, not only those considered christians follow Jesus way. Jesus was a teacher and a teacher is universal. anyone can choose to take him(jesus) as an example to there spiritual path. NOw, if someone is following someone else, eg. Muhammad, Does it mean Muhammad message was contrary to Jesus teaching? Or he just rewrote the same teachings and they became his?
I always say this. Today, there are people turning to God by taking the example of Michael. If Michael was doing good things enough to br seen as light to path to God, what is wrong with that?
I think most of time we are stuck in pocession. Whose idiology is that? etc. If you look the church, that is how it got divided. It started to become those who belong to Peter or Paul, to Thomas etc.
I have not read Quran to know what it contain, but I wouldn't juge it as a book that teaches wrong and contradictory to the message of Jesus.
In all religion I know one thing they luck, it is KNOWLEDGE of GOD. If we knew God enough, we would understand that juging others doesn't make us any better because we are saved by his grace; not according to our work, which include how many times we attend certain religion building.
At last, there is no holly water to be pabtized in, to make someone holly. Those were old traditions. Yes Jesus was baptized by John in river Jordan. John had come before Jesus to prepare Jesus arrival and baptizing was part of prepation of people, for the arrival of Jesus
Jesus baptize in holly spirit that guids you through your life by testifying to you all what Jesus taught us, all about the word of God and help us distinguish between good and evil, becuase, on our own, the flesh can't. It is easly tempted. And this is what sets apart Jesus from other messangers of God claimed to be on earth. In fact, that is the reason he came on earth, so that, he can give a streight distinct between right and wrong, otherwise, we would keep guessing or Laws like those of Moses, can be twisted by devil and sin would continue to dominate

 

[elusive moonwalker]

all ill say is you all cant be right lol

 

[Alma]

Lol.. that's exactly what I was thinking..