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Murray Trial - September 27 - Day 1 - Discussion Thread

when did kenny say mj was fine. before june 19th? cause he said that was the first time he had seen mj like that. so before then everything was fine as far as kenny was concerned
 
bluesky said:
anybody has a readable copy of Ken's email that he sent to R. Philip? can you post it here?/
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kennyortegamail.png
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Kenny was a good witness. I kept saying ppl shouldn't jumped to conclusions about who may have tried to help behind the scenes but just becuz others weren't aware didn't mean ppl didn't try.

Conspiracy said:
so Ortega lied in This is it? He have said MJ was in perfect condition all time. Anyone pls!, i know he said that sometime.
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He never said MJ was in perfect condition the entire time. He said something during the TII press tour that led me to believe that at least at one point there was an issue. He said they weren't sure the show was going to make it...or something to that effect. That was a clue that all wasn't rosey....but he wasn't blowing it up like others who acted like MJ was in a horrible state day after day after day. I think Kenny's version of events is a bit of both worlds. There was an issue BUT it wasn't for the entire production. It was mainly around the final week when things started going south...and then rebounded the last 2 days. I think it's important that ppl not exaggerate either extreme "compleletly perfect" or "totally out of it and miserable". Neither would be fair to Michael.


Vici said:
And Karen Faye who have said often that Kenny is to blamed as well and have bragged how she e-mailed Phillips (trying to make it sound like she was the only one caring, HA)... and here we have seen that Kenny tried to do so as well but Kenny like a professional never bragged or dished about this case like Karen, well done Kenny. Bravo!!

Shame on some members of the Jaxn family to include Kenny in the AEG suit.
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Agree.
 
courts back and now playing the way u make me feel from the 23rd
 
I believe Kenny. I think Murray stopped giving Michael propofol for a couple of days after that meeting. Michael felt better and was great on the 23 and 24. The propofol was making Michael sick.
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none of the symptoms described so far are associated with propofol , in fact to avoid those exact disadvantages propofol is used . All of these symptoms are the result of lorazepam and MJ was fine on 23 and 24 because Murray did not give him lorazepam on those nights.

My mother is addicted to lorazepam , she's been an addicted for almost 40 years and the minute I read Murray used lorazepam to sedate MJ i was sure it was the cause for all the troubles .

When my mom takes a larger than usual dose I notice immediately and I'm taking about 3 to 4 mg and she needs the WHOLE DAY to recover so imagine being sedated FOR HOURS using that drug , the result? the situation in that voicerecording !!! the mentally and physically weak state Ortega talked about . No sane doctor prescribe to someone expected to dance and sing lorazepam , I don't believe Murray was not aware of its devastating effect on the human's mental and physical ability, he knew but that's the only way he could keep MJ sedated since he KNEW he COULD not sedate him using propofol (DID not know HOW). That's why Chernof is trying now to promote the idea that lorazepam was swallowed also by MJ without Murray's knowledge.
 
athina_livadi said:
Everyone has a right to have good days and bad days. We are humans not machines. I'm glad Kenny was there to support Michael when he needed it. We have to remember that Michael is a human being that had been suffering from illnesses for years. We are all aware of it. June 19th was a bad day for him but he was cared for by Kenny, bless him! About Murray's demeanour just disgusting! I would have kicked him out of the house in the meeting!
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I can't believe that Murray would have even thought to suggest that Michael actually rehease upon hearing Ortega's descriptions.
 
We have to understand that there are only good and eulogistic words and footages in the movie! Who would say in This is it that Michael was bad one day? Who would put it into the movie? Nobody! I don't think it's kind of lie, it's just the prose of existence...
 
June 24rd... Last rehearsal is being shown.. EARTH SONG

ps, MJ performing eath song as the last song ever is overwhelming knowing his environmental message :(
 
Soundmind said:
none of the symptoms described so far are associated with propofol , in fact to avoid those exact disadvantages propofol is used . All of these symptoms are the result of lorazepam and MJ was fine on 23 and 24 because Murray did not give him lorazepam on those nights.

My mother is addicted to lorazepam , she's been an addicted for almost 40 years and the minute I read Murray used lorazepam to sedate MJ i was sure it was the cause for all the troubles .

When my mom takes a larger than usual dose I notice immediately and I'm taking about 3 to 4 mg and she needs the WHOLE DAY to recover so imagine being sedated FOR HOURS using that drug , the result? the situation in that voicerecording !!! the mentally and physically weak state Ortega talked about . No sane doctor prescribe to someone expected to dance and sing lorazepam , I don't believe Murray was not aware of its devastating effect on the human's mental and physical ability, he knew but that's the only way he could keep MJ sedated since he KNEW he COULD not sedate him using propofol (DID not know HOW). That's why Chernof is trying now to promote the idea that lorazepam was swallowed also by MJ without Murray's knowledge.
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I see thanks. I felt that whatever he gave Michael stopped for a few days where Michael felt better.
 
Can't imagine how Kenny and the other witnesses must be feeling. This is stressing me out just sat at home :/ That picture of Michael from the 25th is so so sad. Sky news isnt showing the court live at the moment, just highlights from earlier. Its going to be a long 5 weeks...
 
Vici said:
kennyortegamail.png
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Randy
I will do whatever I can to be of help with this situation. I you need me to come to the house, just give me a call in the morning. My conscern is, now that we've brought the doctors in to this fold and have played the tough love, now or never card, is that the Artist may be unable to rise to the occasion due to real emotional stuff. He appeared quite weak and fatigued this evening He had a terrible case of the chills, was trembling, rambling and obsessing. everything in me says he should be psychologically evaluated. If we have any chance at all to get to him back in the light, it's going to take a strong Therapist to help him through this as well as immediate physical nurturing. I was told by our Choreographer that during the Artists costume fitting with his Designer tonight they noticed he's lost more weight As far as I can tell, there is no one taking responsibility (caring for) for him on a daily basis. Where was his assistant tonight? Tonight I was feeding him, wrapping him in blankets to warm his chills, massaging his feet to calm him and calling his doctor There were four security guards outside his door. but no one offering him a cup of hot tea. Finally, it's important for everyone to know, I believe that he really wants this. It would shatter him, break his heart if we pulled the plug. He's terribly frightened it's all going to go away. He asked me repeatedly tonight if I was going to leave him. He was practically begging for my confidence. It broke my heart. He was like a lost boy. There still may be a chance he can rise for the occasion if we get him the help he needs.

Sincerely,
Kenny
Apologies for any mispellings.
 
Hearing the word lazy and Michael together just does not go. I can see what this lawyer is trying to do.
 
This guy is really annoying me, don't know about anyone else. His questions seem unprepared, he seems to be thinking on the spot and 'hitting & hoping' so to speak.
 
I'm loving how the prosecutor is all over the defense attorney Chertoff, objecting and Judge Pastor sustaining them. :) This judge really is no-nonsense and I really appreciate it. Great testimony from Kenny Ortega so far. :)

*HUGS to everybody!*
 
Karen Faye's name is being brought up now!

Kenny says he never read the riot-act to MJ as Karen have said.
 
A few observations I have made so far, if anyone wants to let me know what they think....

As unpredictable as Chernoff is, I worry about the moments when he says something and then pauses for contemplation from the jury.I ust hope this doesn't seep into the jury's mind too much because as bad or unorthodox as chernoff is, he might say things that stay in their mind and influence the jury in a bad way.We should be under no illusion that he is a awful lawyer who will not play a crucial part in this. I am a bit worried about him and how he comes across to the jury.

Another minor observation that I seemed to notice was that in the later, Kenny spells week instead of weak.As far as I knw there is no other spelling error.Now of course this is probably over reacting and being dramatic, but unless kenny is maybe autistic etc, It seems a bit weird he spells a fairly easy word wrong when nothting else seems to be incorrect.I am sure he wrote the letter and obviously distressed, but It just stood out.

And also, can someone PLEASE tell me why the only footage we might see was from the ACTUAL film..Ever since I heard the sides were allowed to view all the footage I was very suspicious of sony allowing it , and also what might be shown. I thought it might just be film footage and so far been proved right. Why out of everything would you choose these moments when i am almost sure , there is better footage to represent the prosecutions views...It seems to confirm my views that the whole sharing of footage stunk and made me think sony or someone else had something to hide with their list of promises.


Anyone got views?
 
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