New MJ content (Possibility)

[SmoothGangsta]

Sounds pretty real to me. It's also clearly a remix done for the Michael album. There's processing on the vocals and this is the song Mark Ronson said he was given the vocal track for to create a remix.

 

[Fuzball]

Wondering if the song title's genuine or if it was renamed to "Lovely Way" posthumously.

 

[dam2040]

The beatbox sounds like the one from "Shake You Body". NGL, but this snippet sounded fishy right from the start. We have no proof of whether it's real or fake.

[video]https://youtu.be/kn1CPdH-81Q?t=54[/video]

If it’s fake I’d love to know the source of those vocals.

Also, I know because I was the one involved that the person who has the song was one of the most esteemed song traders.

 

[king_of_style]

If it’s fake I’d love to know the source of those vocals.

Also, I know because I was the one involved that the person who has the song was one of the most esteemed song traders.

I'm convinced it's real. Impersonators can only go so far, and the only other way to fake those vocals would be with an AI or stitched-together vocal snippets (Cascio style), but AI vocals are rarely coherent and you can tell if something's stitched-together like that once you get the acapella. I'll try and put the snippet through an acapella generator and report back what I find.

 

[mind&magic]

Exciting discovery. It can be the same acapella or it can sound similar just by chance. If it´s fabricated like the part of the cascio track I wonder where the main vocals come from. Does anyone know how far the AI development is of singing voices?

 

[king_of_style]

Exciting discovery. It can be the same acapella or it can sound similar just by chance. If it´s fabricated like the part of the cascio track I wonder where the main vocals come from. Does anyone know how far the AI development is of singing voices?

Jukebox AI is what a lot of people use these days, and as far as I know it's hit or miss with vocals. Sometimes it can sound convincing but super low quality like someone recorded the audio with a toaster. Other times it can sound like the souls of the damned screaming from the depths of hell. But neither times does it sound very coherent. It's a fun tool to use with trying to expand pre-existing snippets but I don't think it's very likely that this snippet was made whole-cloth from an AI. There's a few videos of MJ songs being continued by AI (there's even a Jukebox AI-generated continuation of this same snippet, found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY_k0UjcdTE) but I don't think the technology's there yet, especially in trying to simulate MJ. Will sure be scary when it is, though.

Also @dam2040 I made the video earlier today but never got around to sharing it. The acapella generator was a bit rough with the original audio, and so the quieter parts of it got filtered out. I still think, though, that there's enough clear vocals for anyone to analyze and make up their own minds. I'm no audiophile or sound engineer, but to me the acapella doesn't show any signs of snippet-stitching or sampling or any Cascio-like shenaniganery. This leads me to think that it's real, but anyone else can give it a listen. Here's the link (it includes the original snippet and then the acapella after):

[video=youtube;LfChd2ZYS9c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfChd2ZYS9c[/video]

 

[dam2040]

It’s real.

 

[AlwaysThere]

I still can’t see how anyone could question its authenticity. People have tried splicing together random acapellas before and they’re so obviously fake.

 

[king_of_style]

I still can’t see how anyone could question its authenticity. People have tried splicing together random acapellas before and they’re so obviously fake.

Yeah, the only way I can see someone doing that convincingly is by overfiltering and burying the spliced portions under really loud instrumental -- but even then you just have to extract the vocals and the game's up. I'm 99% sure this is real.

 

[Maxym]

Wait what? There's an adult version of "Never can say goodbye" in the vault?
Never too sure if this channel is reliable, is it?

 

[Derek1984]

Yeah, I remember the adult version of I'll Be There was on the Pepsi commercial. I think he also recorded NCSG.

 

[Maxym]

If recorded for an album, I would expect yet another versions than the Pepsi version...

 

[Smooth72]

Considering the value of unreleased songs/assets at over one hundred million, determined by a court in the IRS ruling, there must be many more songs that we know nothing about.

 

[rolerprod]

just an idea but what if the estate released a single featuring unreleased 2pac i think that would be the definition of legendry and get huge hype.

 

[mj_frenzy]

It appears that Michael Jackson never recorded adult versions of his old Motown songs (with the exception of the ‘I’ll Be There’ segment that he recorded as an adult specifically for the Pepsi commercial).

His closest collaborators have been asked a lot about that by the singer’s fans (during seminars, video podcasts, etc) and they have replied that they have no knowledge of such adult versions of the songs.

Besides, Michael Jackson always wanted to evolve as an artist and try new things rather than sticking to the past, so he did not want to re-record his old Motown songs as an adult because that would have been a move of regression for him.

About covers, his closest collaborators never mentioned that Michael Jackson ever recorded the ‘Strawberry Fields Forever’ cover song.

The information about all these adult versions of his old Motown songs and covers that he supposedly recorded began to spread mainly from the last issue of the ‘Black And White’ fanzine (French edition), which, as it was proved later, contained a lot of misinformation and hoax articles.

 

[kai]

He at least recorded some songs for the tv airing overdub of the 30th anniversary

 

[lubyss]

Re: New MJ content?

Besides, Michael Jackson always wanted to evolve as an artist and try new things rather than sticking to the past

Yep That is the reason why he used samples of his own old songs in the new ones...

 

[AmitLal92]

Looks like there is still confusion regarding how many songs are left in the vault but there is more info here now in the latest Tax court ruling docs: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/michael-jacksons-likeness-valued-4-1-million-tax-court

Considering the value of unreleased songs/assets at over one hundred million, determined by a court in the IRS ruling, there must be many more songs that we know nothing about.

 

[Maxym]

(double post due to forum lag or so, please delete this)

 

[Maxym]

Yeah the hundred of millions it's more like Prince figures...
I don't find anymore the video explaining how he left thousands of songs organised and "ready" for release.
But at least I find this funny article: https://ultimateprince.com/prince-vault-password/

*Just dreaming MJ did this*

 

[dam2040]

The IRS filing says the Estate found 83 songs, 'fragments of lyrics, tunes and vocals' at the time of Jackson's death.

It also says 'there was some refined gold beneath the dross' - which managed to get them the 10 album deal, 2 of which had to be unreleased compilations.

These 2 albums required 10-13 songs in total.

They also needed 3 anniversary albums, with content derived from the original album. This could mean alternate versions, outtakes and demos.

That's it really in terms of music. It also just laid bare how awful MJs finances were and how no company wanted anything to do with him after 1993. Bravado were ready to sign up before TII with 295 designs MJ approved (he said no to 5) but brands like Walmart had no interest in MJ. Tohme tried to contact a children's animator for a Thriller TV show before MJs passing but he didn't want any part of it either.

 

[AlwaysThere]

If I’m not mistaken, the Estate originally claimed that there was absolutely nothing left in the vault just a year or so ago, which we all know is objectively false. So I’m not entirely sure whether or not I believe this “we only found 83 songs” claim, especially since I can name at least 175+ unreleased song titles alone. (Of course knowing titles doesn’t mean that they exist in recorded form, but nevertheless.)

 

[Derek1984]

I guess I just don't understand why the Estate can't release every unreleased song they have. How much money is there really to gain with unreleased music.

 

[king_of_style]

If I’m not mistaken, the Estate originally claimed that there was absolutely nothing left in the vault just a year or so ago, which we all know is objectively false. So I’m not entirely sure whether or not I believe this “we only found 83 songs” claim, especially since I can name at least 175+ unreleased song titles alone. (Of course knowing titles doesn’t mean that they exist in recorded form, but nevertheless.)

Sorry for not citing a source for this, but I swear I read something from around when Xscape came out about this -- I think it was L.A. Reid who said that there were only 24 songs in the Vault, and they used 8, leaving 16 songs left. Which means to me that we're getting all sorts of conflicting reports. I'd assume the true number of MJ's unreleased -- and to a certain degree releasable -- content is unknown. It could be as low as 0 (as in nothing is releasable, but I think we all doubt that) but I think the highest estimate is below 100. I do think Michael had a lot of stuff left, but let's not kid ourselves about hundreds of tracks. My man was no Prince or ABBA

 

[mind&magic]

Jukebox AI is what a lot of people use these days, and as far as I know it's hit or miss with vocals. Sometimes it can sound convincing but super low quality like someone recorded the audio with a toaster. Other times it can sound like the souls of the damned screaming from the depths of hell. But neither times does it sound very coherent. It's a fun tool to use with trying to expand pre-existing snippets but I don't think it's very likely that this snippet was made whole-cloth from an AI. There's a few videos of MJ songs being continued by AI (there's even a Jukebox AI-generated continuation of this same snippet, found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY_k0UjcdTE) but I don't think the technology's there yet, especially in trying to simulate MJ. Will sure be scary when it is, though.

Also @dam2040 I made the video earlier today but never got around to sharing it. The acapella generator was a bit rough with the original audio, and so the quieter parts of it got filtered out. I still think, though, that there's enough clear vocals for anyone to analyze and make up their own minds. I'm no audiophile or sound engineer, but to me the acapella doesn't show any signs of snippet-stitching or sampling or any Cascio-like shenaniganery. This leads me to think that it's real, but anyone else can give it a listen. Here's the link (it includes the original snippet and then the acapella after):

Interesting post, I made some researches, too. Jukebox AI seems to sample the whole song (instrumental and voice), but it would also be possible to analyze the acapella only and to reproduce the singing voice of MJ. This seems to be no science fiction, YAMAHA has done something like that with Hibari Misora, a (dead) Japanese vocalist in 2019:

"Yamaha Corporation announces that it has succeeded in reproducing the singing of the late Hibari Misora, a legendary Japanese vocalist, using its own VOCALOID:AI singing synthesis technology in technical cooperation with an NHK (Japan Broadcasting Corporation) television program*1 broadcast in Japan on September 29, serving as both the public debut and first real-world implementation of VOCALOID:AI."

You can listen to it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UUNxyp88sE

More information: http://www.vocaloid.com/en/news/vocaloid_ai_news_release/

I would say the snippet of Lovely way is real and not produced with AI technology, but it would be creepy and like christmas at the same time if we could use this technology for creating thousands of "new MJ" fanmade songs.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Sorry for not citing a source for this, but I swear I read something from around when Xscape came out about this -- I think it was L.A. Reid who said that there were only 24 songs in the Vault, and they used 8, leaving 16 songs left.

Yep! That was brought up quite a bit during the XSCAPE promo campaign, including in the album booklet.

Nobody ever said that there was only 24 songs left in the vault though. When the song selection process began for XSCAPE, L.A. Reid only wanted to consider tracks that Michael recorded top to bottom multiple times, and he was given 24 songs to work with. Reid wasn’t given unrestricted access to the vault; he just set a criteria and the Estate responded accordingly.

It’s impossible to estimate what’s left in the vault because the only people who can tell us definitively are Branca and McClain. People like Matt Forger and Brad Sundberg no doubt have knowledge, but they weren’t around for every studio session or album, so their scope is somewhat limited. (Bear in mind that Bruce Swedien once said there were only two to three outtakes per album, and neither he nor Bill Bottrell could identify “I’m So Blue”.) No doubt this isn’t a Prince situation, but there are nearly 200 as-yet-unreleased titles that are conclusively linked to MJ, and I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe that only 16 of those can be released.

 

[AmitLal92]

Yeah LA Reid had access to the vault. From 24 songs, they then narrowed the field to 20, which were then edited down to 14.

Sorry for not citing a source for this, but I swear I read something from around when Xscape came out about this -- I think it was L.A. Reid who said that there were only 24 songs in the Vault, and they used 8, leaving 16 songs left. Which means to me that we're getting all sorts of conflicting reports. I'd assume the true number of MJ's unreleased -- and to a certain degree releasable -- content is unknown. It could be as low as 0 (as in nothing is releasable, but I think we all doubt that) but I think the highest estimate is below 100. I do think Michael had a lot of stuff left, but let's not kid ourselves about hundreds of tracks. My man was no Prince or ABBA

 

[AlwaysThere]

Yeah LA Reid had access to the vault. From 24 songs, they then narrowed the field to 20, which were then edited down to 14.

From the XSCAPE booklet:

Jackson... frequently returned to [unreleased] tracks he liked on later projects, sometimes finding a “home” for them decades after they were written and recorded. With this process in mind, Jackson’s Estate began combing through the artist’s vast vault in late 2012, looking for some of the strongest material the artist left behind. Working with longtime Sony A&R man, John Doelp, they eventually narrowed in on about two dozen tracks that spanned over two decades of Jackson’s career. After this preliminary pull, L.A. Reid listened to the material, often blown away by the quality of what he heard. For XSCAPE, Reid determined to only use songs that seemed mostly complete and that contained Jackson’s vocals from top to bottom. This was not merely a practical decision. Since Jackson often waited until the very end of a song’s creative process to lay down vocals, a complete vocal signaled to Reid that Jackson must have really loved these particular songs.

So, not only did L.A. Reid only have access to the 24 songs the Estate pulled from the archives, but the involvement of Sony’s A&R man during the initial pull implies that they were also considering commercial potential and were judging the music’s quality as they went. So, in all likelihood, there were MORE than 24 viable songs to use; Branca, McClain, Doelp, and everyone else involved just thought that those 24 were the best of the bunch.

 

[Derek1984]

Right... So what L.A. Reid was looking for was which songs could be remixed best to sound modernized.

He may have listened to a song like Buffalo Bill, which might be a gem, but he might have thought the song would not have translated to the remix table.

He obviously heard and liked Chicago 1945, and when that was going to be remixed, that's when Porcaro said No.

 

[king_of_style]

I would say the snippet of Lovely way is real and not produced with AI technology, but it would be creepy and like christmas at the same time if we could use this technology for creating thousands of "new MJ" fanmade songs.

First off, that Hibari Misora AI was beautiful and also a bit eerie to me. Which makes me agree that it would be cool and also creepy if fans were able to make MJ songs with AI -- or if the Estate was able to mimic MJ's voice well enough to finish his unfinished music. Obviously I'd give such content a listen, but it'd really pose a philosophical quandary for us fans.

Yep! That was brought up quite a bit during the XSCAPE promo campaign, including in the album booklet.

Nobody ever said that there was only 24 songs left in the vault though. When the song selection process began for XSCAPE, L.A. Reid only wanted to consider tracks that Michael recorded top to bottom multiple times, and he was given 24 songs to work with. Reid wasn’t given unrestricted access to the vault; he just set a criteria and the Estate responded accordingly.

It’s impossible to estimate what’s left in the vault because the only people who can tell us definitively are Branca and McClain. People like Matt Forger and Brad Sundberg no doubt have knowledge, but they weren’t around for every studio session or album, so their scope is somewhat limited. (Bear in mind that Bruce Swedien once said there were only two to three outtakes per album, and neither he nor Bill Bottrell could identify “I’m So Blue”.) No doubt this isn’t a Prince situation, but there are nearly 200 as-yet-unreleased titles that are conclusively linked to MJ, and I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe that only 16 of those can be released.

My thoughts exactly. I mean sometimes MJ went in the studio with people just to have fun and not produce anything for release -- I imagine Barry Gibb, Diana Ross, Janet, and no doubt his own brothers made music with Michael in informal jam sessions. It's possible that some of his time spent with Will.i.am, Akon, Ne-Yo, Brad Buxer, and the rest was like that too. But no one could tell me that a man whose whole life was dedicated to making music couldn't finish a few songs in 8 years with that many collaborators. If Michael was that unorganized and unproductive he would've never released any albums after Bad.

Right... So what L.A. Reid was looking for was which songs could be remixed best to sound modernized.

He may have listened to a song like Buffalo Bill, which might be a gem, but he might have thought the song would not have translated to the remix table.

He obviously heard and liked Chicago 1945, and when that was going to be remixed, that's when Porcaro said No.

Songs like "Chicago 1945" and snippets like this one of "Lovely Way" (not to mention the snippets of "Rampage" and "CGYWOM") give me hope that the MJ Vault has a few tricks up its sleeve yet. Now that the LN business is abated for the time being, I don't doubt that the Estate will drop something in the next year or two. I just gotta stay patient -- if the love goes into the project and respect goes for MJ's vision I'll be happy.