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An astounding success in the Broadway Show world... If I hadn't made an account here I wouldn't even know it happened.

I can only say I wish I was a prince fan, what treats they get served! All we get served is allegations by backstabbing pricks, media coverage that is a downright insult to the profession and full blown silence from the Estate, oh yes and a piece of chalk, can't forget that awesome gesture.
 
filmandmusic said:
I can only say I wish I was a prince fan, what treats they get served! All we get served is allegations by backstabbing pricks, media coverage that is a downright insult to the profession and full blown silence from the Estate, oh yes and a piece of chalk, can't forget that awesome gesture.
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Prince fans would disagree, as plenty of them aren't happy with his estate. I haven't kept abreast of the conversation, but a recent Variety article put it into perspective, mainly the following quote:

"While the estate has released several expertly curated reissues and compilations of his music, it has done so at a significantly slower pace than Bob Dylan’s or David Bowie’s catalogs — and multiple opportunities beyond recorded music, from musicals to biopics to clothing lines to destination Las Vegas shows, have remained unrealized thus far."

Think about it. Other than the constant reissues, what exactly has Prince's estate done to expand or preserve his legacy? Nothing. MJ's estate, meanwhile, oversaw three documentaries, two multiplatinum albums, a worldwide Cirque du Soleil tour, a Pepsi collaboration, a best-selling Vegas residency, a record-setting Top 10 single, an animated Halloween special, showcases at the Venice Film Festival and Sundance, and a London art exhibit. And if you compare the posthumous data between the two (e.g., streaming numbers, yearly earnings, social media mentions, music charts), MJ continues to outpace Prince by miles — even though there's a nearly six-year gap between their respective deaths.

I'm not saying the MJ estate has done a stellar job. They haven't. But MJ fans who act like the Prince estate is the gold standard solely because they raid the vault on a regular basis make me laugh.
 
filmandmusic said:
I can only say I wish I was a prince fan, what treats they get served! All we get served is allegations by backstabbing pricks, media coverage that is a downright insult to the profession and full blown silence from the Estate, oh yes and a piece of chalk, can't forget that awesome gesture.
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Funny how you say that because despite the many releases, Prince fans aren’t happy with his estate. I know that because I’m a frequent visitor of Prince.org. His fans are always complaining about lack of releases, the focus on 80s material, price of anniversary editions. Things may look rosy from the outside, but if you a part of the Prince fandom, you will realise that fans aren’t happy with Prince’s estate.

I think Michael fans need to stop comparing his posthumous releases to Prince’s posthumous releases. Prince left behind literal unreleased albums in his vault. Michael didn’t and a lot of Michael’s unreleased material is all over the place. Michael wasn’t the most organised when it came to looking after his unreleased material. Also, Prince’s estate don’t have to deal with defending Michael’s name. I don’t think people realise how hard it is to be an estate of an artist who has been accused of something as serious and disgusting as child molestation charges, especially in this day and age of #MeToo era. I have no doubt that leaving neverland put a lot of plans on hold, in regards to release of new music.

I am a Prince fan but I can safely say that 90% of his posthumous stuff is very average. Give me Michael (even with three fake songs), Xscape, Bad 25 over any posthumous Prince material. Despite the many challenges that Michael’s estate have to face and despite them messing up on numerous occasions, I wouldn’t swap any of Prince’s posthumous releases for Michael’s.
 
I’m a fan but I have no idea about half the things you mentioned @AlwaysThere . What 3 documentaries were released? What is that LasVegas thing? Pepsi deal? Showcases at film festivals, what was shown?

From a purely egotistical stand point I would still prefer yearly releases of old material over anything else. But in terms of preserving legacy maybe they’re doing a decent job, I have no opinion on that. For me it is purely about music and concerts, I’m a consumer, I don’t really care much about legacy, his legacy is set and then tarnished, there is nothing to change that.

PS I don’t buy that claim that prince has 1000s of unreleased tracks in the vault, MJ supposedly had hundreds too but that turned out to be false as well. It is just hype.
 
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I think it'd be nice if we got a demo of a track from an album or even a work tape like the demo they released for Beat It on This Is It disc 2. Doesn't have to be a big release but just something little for the fans

Thankfully we have great people on this forum sharing cool new stuff for us
 
filmandmusic said:
I’m a fan but I have no idea about half the things you mentioned @AlwaysThere . What 3 documentaries were released? What is that LasVegas thing? Pepsi deal? Showcases at film festivals, what was shown?
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The documentaries were (1) Michael Jackson's This Is It, which became (and still holds the record as) the highest-grossing documentary/concert film in history; (2) Bad 25, which was showcased at the Venice International Film Festival and broadcast on TV and (3) Michael Jackson's Journey from Motown to Off the Wall, which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival and was later broadcast on the Showtime network.

The Vegas residency is Michael Jackson: One, which is another Cirque du Soleil collaboration and is one of the city's most successful shows.

The Pepsi deal took place in 2012, simultaneous with the release of Bad 25. One billion Pepsi cans featuring MJ's silhouette were launched worldwide, which may or may not be a Guinness world record. (It was never pursued to my knowledge.)

The film festival showcases were in 2012 (Bad 25 @ Venice), 2016 (Journey from Motown to Off the Wall @ Sundance), and 2017 (Thriller 3D in 4K @ Sundance). All were widely publicized and were highly acclaimed by critics and those in attendance.

None of these were under-the-radar projects either; they were widely publicized and discussed, especially the still-in-production One.
 
Oh ok well I’ve seen those. So discounting the broadway show, it has been silent since 2017...
We can’t expect the movie for another 2 years either probably.

It’s about time something happens imo…

thanks for the detailed post btw!
 
Richard76 said:
so new album is coming?
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Sadly, no. The Broadway musical (which is a raving success, that's good) and the music sales & streams are their focus it seems. The Estate aren't planning stuff right now, at least not that we know of. I have hope for the 40th anniversary but at the same time, I don't. Anniversaries has came and go but nothing happened. I guess we'll just have to wait and see for the future.
 
femi said:
Sadly, no. The Broadway musical (which is a raving success, that's good) and the music sales & streams are their focus it seems. The Estate aren't planning stuff right now, at least not that we know of. I have hope for the 40th anniversary but at the same time, I don't. Anniversaries has came and go but nothing happened. I guess we'll just have to wait and see for the future.
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thats not fair. why they trying to hide michaels work?? thats not right. he wanted us to hear his music. even unfinished. and hiding it from us is realy disgusting
 
Richard76 said:
he wanted us to hear his music. even unfinished.
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Actually no, he did not. He was a perfectionist and he would most likely hate to know that demos like 'Love Never Felt So Good', which are extremely unfinished, were released to the public.
 
dethorro said:
Actually no, he did not. He was a perfectionist and he would most likely hate to know that demos like 'Love Never Felt So Good', which are extremely unfinished, were released to the public.
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what? that makes no sense. do you prefer this music just thrown out. but no. mj wouldnt like that happen. he didnt know he will die. but he would like us to enjoy his work. even unfinished. he was delievering to this world joy and happiness. and that what his music do.
 
Richard76 said:
what? that makes no sense. do you prefer this music just thrown out. but no. mj wouldnt like that happen. he didnt know he will die. but he would like us to enjoy his work. even unfinished. he was delievering to this world joy and happiness. and that what his music do.
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It absolutely makes sense. I'm not talking about what I would prefer. Of course, I would love to listen to unfinished music. I would even listen to a 3 second drum loop idea that he had. I'm talking about what he would want and he always hated it when the public got to listen to his unfinished material, as would any perfectionist. Sure, he would like us to enjoy his work, but he put out enough music which is finished during his lifetime.
 
I'm sure the question has been answered before at some point and somewhere in this forum, but the search function and I still haven't established a good relationship, so I'd be happy if we could discuss this again here topically.

Why are there no published work-in-progress demo albums yet? With this I mean no complete unreleased pre-songs (like the relationship of "Al Capone" to "Smooth Criminal" ) , but something like the vocal demos of "Beat it" on This is it, the leaked "Billie Jean" home demos or the in LQ leaked demo version of "Someone Put Your Hand Out" , at which we can listen to the way of song creation (so only demos that can NOT be modernized and declared as independent "new" MJ songs).

Is the demand for this too low, so that it would not be financially worthwhile to press CD blanks for this? Even for this case, then you could still release such a demo album exclusively digitally, where is the obstacle?
 
mind&magic said:
Is the demand for this too low, so that it would not be financially worthwhile to press CD blanks for this? Even for this case, then you could still release such a demo album exclusively digitally, where is the obstacle?
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I think demand for such a release is very very limited. - Only we fans would be interested - and even many fans would not be interested in such demoes - or songs in development. I would love it, but I doubt it will ever happen. - I do not believe a digital release would be very expensive?
But the demoes would have to be cleared up and made ready for release even though nothing should be changed with the song itself.
If you see most songs on Michael and Xscape on Spotify they don't really have that many plays/spins. So demos would propaply do a lot worse - and from a business point of view it would not be worth the effort.
 
dethorro said:
It absolutely makes sense. I'm not talking about what I would prefer. Of course, I would love to listen to unfinished music. I would even listen to a 3 second drum loop idea that he had. I'm talking about what he would want and he always hated it when the public got to listen to his unfinished material, as would any perfectionist. Sure, he would like us to enjoy his work, but he put out enough music which is finished during his lifetime.
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but he didnt know he will die soon. if he did, i think he would like us to hear his work...he wouldnt like it just lost somewhere. so dont pretend you know mj. he is a king. dont be such arrogant. have respect
 
@Richard76, unfortunately there is a technical problem when an artist dies.

From that point on, it is the Estate that decides the songs and albums that they are getting a release, not the deceased artist.

The Estate also decides the type of the released music (demos, finished music, partially finished music, etc).

The Michael Jackson Estate also already clarified another thing.

"If we released demos by themselves, they would not be commercially successful because they are, by definition, unfinished" (The Michael Jackson Estate)

The Michael Jackson Estate is a company that, first and foremost, has to make profits in order to continue to be viable, so they are not going to release such stuff.

@mind&magic, in case of a physical release, pressing CD blanks occupies only a small amount of the overall budget.

The obstacle in a digital only album release (demo album or an album with complete tracks) is that there are some drawbacks.

For instance, a digital only album cannot sell well because listeners tend to buy certain songs from that album, rather than buying the entire digital only album.

Also, in case of streaming services, a rather significant part of the total revenue earned per stream goes to the streaming platform itself, which makes the digital release not really profitable for the Estate or for the artist.
 
One thing I still can't understand, all these years later, is LA Reid saying when making Xscape, he was only interested in "songs Michael sang top to bottom, multiple times. That way I knew Michael loved them"

Now surely Love Never Felt So Good and Loving You weren't sung multiple times, if so why did they use those vocal takes? Specifically Love Never Felt So Good, as it's clearly rough and unfinished lyrically. If Mike sung it multiple times then why not use a new take?

Does this mean LA Reid was telling a white lie about the top to bottom thing, is it that they couldn't locate the other vocal takes? Does this mean there are songs LA Reid didn't consider for Xscape, because they were in a rough state, similar completion to Hollywood Tonight?
 
mj_frenzy said:
@Richard76, unfortunately there is a technical problem when an artist dies.

From that point on, it is the Estate that decides the songs and albums that they are getting a release, not the deceased artist.

The Estate also decides the type of the released music (demos, finished music, partially finished music, etc).

The Michael Jackson Estate also already clarified another thing.

"If we released demos by themselves, they would not be commercially successful because they are, by definition, unfinished" (The Michael Jackson Estate)

The Michael Jackson Estate is a company that, first and foremost, has to make profits in order to continue to be viable, so they are not going to release such stuff.

@mind&magic, in case of a physical release, pressing CD blanks occupies only a small amount of the overall budget.

The obstacle in a digital only album release (demo album or an album with complete tracks) is that there are some drawbacks.

For instance, a digital only album cannot sell well because listeners tend to buy certain songs from that album, rather than buying the entire digital only album.

Also, in case of streaming services, a rather significant part of the total revenue earned per stream goes to the streaming platform itself, which makes the digital release not really profitable for the Estate or for the artist.
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i know. but the could just leak it for free... at least for fans... coz they (i mean we), fans, really deserve it. but they dont give a *khm*.... they couldnt even remove fake mj songs from his posthumous album. that really show they true identity. all for money... just like mj sang in his famous song
 
mind&magic said:
I'm sure the question has been answered before at some point and somewhere in this forum, but the search function and I still haven't established a good relationship, so I'd be happy if we could discuss this again here topically.

Why are there no published work-in-progress demo albums yet?
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The estate have made it very clear both on their website and through the stuff they have done that they do not consider stuff they cannot remix worth releasing at all.
 
Richard76 said:
but he didnt know he will die soon. if he did, i think he would like us to hear his work...he wouldnt like it just lost somewhere. so dont pretend you know mj. he is a king. dont be such arrogant. have respect
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dude... just no. MJ always hated it in his lifetime and he will hate it as a dead man. He definitely would not want us to have an Album like "Michael" or "Xscape"... any musician who is a little perfectionist would agree that even after death they don't want their unfinished stuff to be released...
 
Richard76 said:
but he didnt know he will die soon. if he did, i think he would like us to hear his work...he wouldnt like it just lost somewhere. so dont pretend you know mj. he is a king. dont be such arrogant. have respect
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I’m not pretending anything, you’re the one who is speculating about what Michael would want after his death. I’m going by what his feelings were when he was alive and when his unfinished material would leak onto the internet (e.g. Escape or Hold My Hand). I also don’t understand how I’m being arrogant or disrespectful but, whatever.
 
Michael released 2 completely unfinished songs in 2004. This renders the ongoing discussion pointless.
 
filmandmusic said:
Michael released 2 completely unfinished songs in 2004. This renders the ongoing discussion pointless.
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Michael was not involved in choosing songs for that box set, not to even mention that he was mentally getting ready for the trial during that time. He even mentioned during the 2002 Killer Thriller party that he was giving Sony 'just a box set with two new songs on it' before leaving them. It's clear that he was keen to leave and, at that point, didn't care as much about what they put out as long as the contract would end.

Still doesn't prove anything. It doesn't prove that he would love it for Sony to release his unfinished material.

Matt Forger: "I remember going through a hundred tapes - some with Michael's voice, some without. The best were chosen for this project, which covered his entire career. We wanted Michael to be more involved, but he was very busy with other commitments. He reviewed what had been assembled and gave final approval to the project."
 
Yeah, all MJ contributed to TUC was looking over the final track listing and giving his approval. Which at that point was something I assume he had to do as it was already all put together lol.
 
AdeZ said:
The estate is a business lol, making money is an objective of theirs. Why would the estate release something for free? This is like going to a store and asking the manager why don't they put out free products, they need to make a profit obviously.
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They released both concerts for free on their youtube channel. They still make a profit from ads but it's free for the fans. Win win.
 
AdeZ said:
Oh, i didnt consider that at all, when i read the "leak it for free" comment. Still posting it on youtube wouldnt be as profitable compared to an actual release.
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How about pay per view? Or subscription?
 
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