New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial. [MERGED]

Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

I remember the old woman( whose granddaughter was already negotiating a book deal during the trial) and Raymond Haltman claimed after the trial that the other jurors intimated them into voting not guilty by threatening of going to the judge to have them dismissed! Like this is how jury works! They wanted to convict him no matter what (along with the Bill Orielly fan the Asian juror). The jurors kept asking for testimonies throughout their deliberations, they went through everything and left the three jurors with no argument. Is he now claiming it was the fans who intimidated him?!
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

The power of fans is constantly overstated and overblown in the media and you should know better than trying to find excuses for this stupid story. And he never mentioned this supposed threat before.


Far be it from me to find any excuse as I said I don't believe at all that he was threatened by fans
I just pointed out what his newly invented excuse could be. He never mentioned any threats before.
Of course based on the trailer there is no way to know for sure what the context is maybe he said
that some people threatened him after the verdict "for letting a child molester go free."

They wanted to convict him no matter what (along with the Bill Orielly fan the Asian juror). !

How do you know he was an O'rielly fan? Where do you hear that? If true that would explain a lot.
 
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Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Once chosen, the media published a brief profile for each of them based on their answers to the applications they had given during jury selection. That's how we knew one of the jurors had two nieces who were sexually assaulted by their father. That was a very bold decision by Mez. She was one of those who thought Mj was innocent because she knew from experience how victims behaved.

the Asian juror was an immigrant if I remember correctly but she did say that she was huge fan of Bill O'rielly. We were actually concerned about having a pro orielly on the jury giving his stand on mj. While Mez counted on the jurors using their brains and being reasonable especially when he selected many women and one with sexual abuse in her family, those characteristics are not associated with oriellly's audience let alone a FAN of his. Mez was right to a great degree but when it comes to this one he was wrong, an idiot is an idiot.

the three jurors who wanted to vote guilty were Raymond Haltman and the granny both had monetary incentive to do so and had tried to profit from a guilty verdict. There were reports of their families being in negotiation with book publishers. After the favorable verdict there was no need for MEZ to bring that up, but should there was been a conviction, I am sure that would have been the strongest points of Mez appeal. The third juror who wanted to vote guilty did not seek financial gain from her position, she was an O'reilly fan so to her it was a matter of "principal" if you are innocent, you do not settle. The irony given the recent scandal of O'rielly. She was Asian with short hair.
 
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Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

The third juror who wanted to vote guilty did not seek financial gain from her position, she was an O'reilly fan so to her it was a matter of "principal" if you are innocent, you do not settle.

These idiots do not even notice the contradiction. She knew that the Francias got money too so that means
she believed beyond a reasonable doubt that Francia was molested? After his and his mother's testimonies?
If she is an OReilly fan she should know how MJ was tried in the media and convicted there even before
the trial began so what's the point of winning in court when the public doesn't accept the verdict anyway?


BTW how do you know that was her argument? Did she ever talk to the media?
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

What people? Producers, writers, cameramen?

She said people involved in it ( she didnt say excatly who} told her that tom mes, ahrodhite jones and someothers were meant to be in this documentary
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Let us be clear here. Some jurors did express doubts about Mj being guilty of the accusations in 1993 but the general consensus was he did not molest Gavin Arvizos and those who were sympathetic to Mj on the jury did remind the others that even if they felt he was guilty in 1993 the evidence did not support his guilt in 2003. We got the feeling at the time, that those who wanted to vote guilty and those who were on the fence wanted to send him to jail over the 1993 case. The reason is the defense did not address it fully. I kind of understand their position (not those who wanted to profit of course, I am talking about those who had genuine doubt). Sneddon was inflaming the public with stories about the evidence he had from 1993 especially the strip search. The jurors never heard about the strip in the court room, but it was inevitable that they did at home. Sneddon argued that it 100% matched and thus proved without doubt that Mj molested Jordan , the defense argued that introducing such evidence was highly prejudicial to Mj. Now what was the average joe supposed to make out of this? They were no lawyers, they did not understand that the defense did not have to argue the merit of Sneddon's claims, that on a technicality they could have thrown it out which they did. For the average dude Mj had something to hide especially given the lack of any denial by the the defense that it matched. I remember the uproar this caused in the fans communities at the time. Likewise, the defense argued about keeping the settlement figures out, the jurors heard about him paying tens of millions to a boy, and his attempt to make the figure out. The fact that Jordan did not make an appearance does not mean they thought he was not a victim. He did himself a great favor by staying out, because the doubt remained in the jurors head that he could have been a victim.

For those who did not follow the court in 2005, please note that although Mez did great on cross examining the prosecution witnesses and impeached everyone of them, he was not as successful during his rebuttal. But as the experts said at the time, he won during cross examination so he did not really have to do much during the defense turn. For the public and the jury, Mj had the burden of proving he was innocent not the prosecution. He did prove he was innocent in 2003 but did not present his side on the1993 case so he was assumed to be guilty irrespective of the fact that the ex employees were destroyed on the stand, just because the ex employees were lying did not mean Jordan was lying. More importantly, they had no idea about Evan and his "plan".
 
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Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Yeah wonder if shes still a fan of bills now ?
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Now what was the average joe supposed to make out of this?


The average Joe, meaning people like the jurors, especially if Sneddon's declaration was already available on the net during the trial could have asked some obvious questions like


1. If it was so accurate how come Sneddon didn't arrest and charge him? What was the point
of taking the photos if he doesn't charge him when the photos prove his guilt?

2. If MJ was guilty why did he cooperate with the police at all? Why didn't he settle with the Chandlers
right after he learned that Jordan gave a description of his body to the police? That was more than a
month before the strip search. A guilty person would have panicked and would have tried
to remove the Chandlers as prosecution witnesses at least at that point if not before.

3. Why didn't Sneddon try to introduce this as 1108 evidence when he introduced the books found in 1993
and all those ex employees? Why 1101 evidence at the end of the trial?

4. Why did Sneddon try to introduce the photos based on false pretenses, to rebut the defense's
argument that MJ was shy and modest and would not expose his body to boys. No such argument
was made during the trial therefore there was nothing to rebut and Sneddon knew it.

5. If Sneddon wanted to introduce the photos how come he didn't subpoena Chandler himself?
And if he did why doesn't Chandler, now a grown man, want to testify? He's not interested in protecting
other kids from a molester?

6. How could photos taken on Dec 20 1993 accurately match the description of MJ's body
as it looked in May June 1993, the period of the alleged molestation, when vitiligo can change the pigmented and depigmented areas randomly and quickly?

7. If as Sneddon said in his declaration "Jordan Chandler disclosed his DETAIL knowledge of the singular appearance of
Defendant's buttocks, genital area and his penis" and if all that was so accurate then how come Sneddon
himself only mentions one dark marking on the right side of Defendant's penis at about the relative
location as the dark blemish located by Jordan Chandler on his drawing. How the heck is that
a detailed and accurate description of said body parts?
How could one dark blemish be an accurate and detailed description of someone's genitalia and buttocks?
Especially when it was at "about the relative same location" as a spot supposedly drawn by Chandler?

and the icing on the cake:

Why does Sneddon talk about MJ's natural color as a blemish like he is a white man
with dark spots which don't belong there?


In a rational world Sneddon's last minute stunt should have helped MJ because it showed
that Sneddon was willing to do and say anything to prejudice the jury, knowing full well that Jordan
would not testify and the judge would not allow the jury to see the photos because it would
violate Mj's 6th amendment rights he still pretended that he wanted to introduce the photos because he knew
that the defense would object and it would look like MJ have something to hide.
And in case the judge would still allow it he ensured that he could not be accused of perjury with this
convenient escape:

I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct except for
those statements made on information and belief and as to those statements
I believe them to be true.
 
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Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

It's always wierd to hear from jurors after a trial-and then, you don't even know if they're telling the truth. Read that one juror from the Cosby case said it was unanimously not guilty at the first straw vote, and then it changed 10-2 during deliberations. How did that happen?? They all thought he wasn't guilty of the charge that he gave her drugs without her knowledge, but the depositions and testimonies say completely otherwise. And then the next day, more jurors came out and said first juror was dead wrong and that it was 5-7 or 7-5 all through it.

I'd like to see the Murray jurors on a show-just to laugh at the guy who was determined that Kai Chase or Alberto Alvarez did it.
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Yes, that was not just shocking but INSANE.
I saw him on CNN saying .... 365 straight days...., WTF? And this person was one of the jurors considering the fate of an accussed man?

Karlee Barnes of all people foolishly said during her testimony that MJ slept in a bed with Brett for a year.
When you look at his 1992 1993 schedule and where the Barnes were it's obvious that this was not true.
MJ was with the Barnes during the first leg of the Dangerous tour during the summer for two months and Gotham Chopra who was 17
at the time was also with him. Then the Barnes returned to Australia when school began.

Then MJ was with the whole Barnes family including the father in South America for about a month
in 1993 and Frank and Eddie were with him. This video was made then and there. Anyone who looks
at this and believed that these happy boys were violated by MJ in any way is sick in the head.
They act like four brothers.


If Hultman will be on Reddit I sure would like to inform him about these facts
and ask him does it make sense to him that Brett Barnes would be so happy and totally
at ease with MJ even after the Chandler allegations if he had been abused?
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

He does not want to hear the truth all their want is to twist the truth.
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Jury members are not excluded of a group of people that would not say or do things for money..
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

In these high profile cases money seem to be there
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

I've just heard Tom Mez on King Jordan Radio that he was interviewed for this show so that corroborates
that person on twitter who said Tom was involved. But just because Tom was interviewed does
not mean it will be fair unfortunately.
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

I've just heard Tom Mez on King Jordan Radio that he was interviewed for this show so that corroborates
that person on twitter who said Tom was involved. But just because Tom was interviewed does
not mean it will be fair unfortunately.
Tom, some Jacksons, and Dorian Holley were all in those tabloid Reelz channel docs too. I guess they were there to be "fair".
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Tom, some Jacksons, and Dorian Holley were all in those tabloid Reelz channel docs too. I guess they were there to be "fair".

Yes that's my concern too. It's easy to edit these interviews in a way that leaves out crucial facts.
And I assume they interviewed Zonen too not just Tom.
If they indeed interviewed Aphrodite Jones that gives me some hope because her story is that
she believed he was guilty then changed her mind once looking at the evidence. They could twist
that of course by only including the part where she talks about why she believed he was guilty
and then leaving out why she changed her mind.

Oxygene may very well use this to get publicity for themselves. If the story would be Jurors now believe Jackson was guilty
it could go viral. If they tell the truth that the case was bullshit the media will ignore it. I hope I'm wrong and
these producers have some decency but a channel that employs Nancy Grace can hardly be rational and objective.
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

we wont know the quality of the show until it airs.. editing will play a big role. Who they are interviewing only gives us a glimpse (hint) of how it could be.. but we will really have to wait and see.. Has anyone seen other episodes of other people and see if it generally sits on a more pro vs. anti the individuals they speak about?
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

This could be in our favor. I hope Judge B see this how Wade defend Michael in 2003 saying he was never abuse by Michael. Wade was the key witness. What a turnabout now he claim he was abuse by Michael all lies.
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

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https://twitter.com/damiencolletti/status/877719658027249664

Wow how did you discover this I'm impressed. An MJ fan plays Robson? Now that's interesting.
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Now Wade is going to look real stupid now. That what caught my eyes too a MJ fan how sweet is that.
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Hm that tweet is the biggest clue to something about the show.. and it's positive! cheer anyone else up a bit?
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Hm that tweet is the biggest clue to something about the show.. and it's positive! cheer anyone else up a bit?

Keeps hope alive at least. I hope he was not fooled like Valentino.
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Hm that tweet is the biggest clue to something about the show.. and it's positive! cheer anyone else up a bit?

:yes:
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Well to be fair.. you're right that it does not necessarily mean positive but there are clues to positivity... We can only take what we can until it airs.. I mean, didn't the movie Navi was in get a little more love after release?? people were pretty pessimistic about that as well.
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

I have to agree also that it just may not be positive oh but i hope it is just have to wait and see.

Oxygen is showing highlights of the four cases now and in the Michael case i hear a lady saying she did not know this happen before and another lady was saying how dare you not to find Michael Jackson guilty. Did this jury have any knowledge of the what happen in the Chandler case? or was their main focus on this case in 2003?
 
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Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

I have to agree also that it just may not be positive oh but i hope it is just have to wait and see.

Oxygen is showing highlights of the four cases now and in the Michael case i hear a lady saying she did not know this happen before and another lady was saying how dare you not to find Michael Jackson guilty. Did this jury have any knowledge of the what happen in the Chandler case? or was their main focus on this case in 2003?
June Chandler testified, so they had some knowledge of the case.
 
Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

I have to agree also that it just may not be positive oh but i hope it is just have to wait and see.

Oxygen is showing highlights of the four cases now and in the Michael case i hear a lady saying she did not know this happen before and another lady was saying how dare you not to find Michael Jackson guilty. Did this jury have any knowledge of the what happen in the Chandler case? or was their main focus on this case in 2003?

Where did you see these highlights? On TV or on the net? I can't find them on their website.
Was the lady who said "how dare you not to find Michael Jackson guilty" Asian?
Or this one?
image.jpg

Or one of these two women? (ignore Elenor Cook the old one in the middle)

Actually that sounds like someone talking about the three jurors who wanted to vote guilty
like pointing out that they were biased all along. How dare you not to find Michael Jackson guilty is certainly
not what an objective juror would ask.
 
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Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

Where did you see these highlights? On TV or on the net? I can't find them on their website.
Was the lady who said "how dare you not to find Michael Jackson guilty" Asian?
Or this one?


Actually that sounds like someone talking about the three jurors who wanted to vote guilty
like pointing out that they were biased all along. How dare you not to find Michael Jackson guilty is certainly
not what an objective juror would ask.

Yes it was on Tv Oxygen channel. The person was not shown who said it maybe it was a person talked about these jurors. Even if the jury had some knowledge of what happen in the Chandler case it would not had made a different. There was no evidence to backup the Arvizos claim the jury did the right thing and came back with a verdict of Not Guilty



I did see the video on Good Morning.

These jurors will be on the show right?

Raymond Hultman, Tammy Bolton, Melissa Herard, Paulina Coccoz and Joseph Gastelo the jury
 
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Re: New one episode special to premiere on Oxygen about the trial.

The person was not shown who said it maybe it was a person talked about these jurors.


If she was not shown then in what context was this? Some audio tape, like a threat someone sent? What was on the screen
while you heard this woman say that?

Listen to his juror at 39:43?, Pauline Coccoz was it her voice?

Was the woman who said "I didn't know this happened before" shown? Did you recognize her as one of the jurors?
 
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