One of the follower fans speaks out (Threads merged)

[MJearthsong]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

Well put.

These stalker fans need to put a sock in it.

I saw several tweets that Karen Faye & some stacker fans sent to Kenny the day of Prince's birthday. smdh too sad.

I really hope he reports them to the police, because some of these tweets were veer threatening.



I have only heard this as second and info from Latoya and she is the least reliable tool out there. So, take it with a bucket of salt. Latoya said TII used a double...and she claimed it wasn't MJ singing. She claimed to have seen MJ molested children....Do you need more proofs of how unreliable Auntie Latoya has been in the past?

One last thing re: TINI Am I the only one questioning the state of mind of people who leave their family, jobs, friends to follow MJ around? I mean seriously...I love MJ, but never in a million years would have drop everything to go stand in front of his house. I find it very scary.

I seriously think some of these people were stalkers, now that MJ is gone, they are having a hard time coping and try to embark on a new crusade to give some meaning to their "life".

My honest opinion. And I am surprised that people don't find anything disturbing or peculiar with this. Notice, it is almost those same TINI that are now worshipping Karen Faye .

I read all your posts, just for curiosity. You seem like someone not too interested in justice for Michael, like someone who wants to twist minds and discredit people who have evidence and fight for truth. Calling these fans stalkers is just horrible since it's clear they were not. Who was in shops, at Klein's, in the studio with Michael? Them. End of story

 

[xo_lola_xo]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

You must be a hater yourself if you can say such a horrible thing. TINI is about justice, not about fan politics. They are about facts and first hand testimonies.

They are exaggerating. And those comments to Kenny Orgeta = GROSS.

I would have never even thought of such a thing!

Well done at the whole "healing the world" and "man in the mirror-ing" thing. :smilerolleyes:

 

[Dutchie]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

There is nothing confusing about TINI. This girl has no reason to lie. Michael has a long history of problems dealing with music industry sharks in Hollywood. It very obvious what this girl is saying. Ppl are not blind. AEG and Sony are part of this murder. Michael did not want to do 50 shows, he was pushed to do it because money and company greed. He was under stress and pressure. AEG taped every MJ move so then they could make money out of it. It worked. TII movie is a very successful project and many fans went 5 times to see it.

:clapping:
I dont understand why people find it so hard to understand that Michael's death was NOT 'just' an accident. It was not 'just' someone who passed away......he was m.u.r.d.e.r.e.d. and Murray just the scapegoat taking away the attention from the REAL murderers. From the minute the news broke there should have been alarm bells ringing in EVERY fan's head.

Think what you want about these fans that were outside Michael's house and followed him around when he went to rehearsals, but they DID talk to him frequently (sometimes 10 minutes, sometimes 1 minute, sometimes 20 minutes) and they did try to get fans from all over the world to write to Michael. My letter was amongst those that Michael received.

Just like fans here on this forum are trying to find the truth and get justice for Michael, so are the fans from the TINI campaign. We all have different tactics, but we have one goal: JUSTICE for the man we all love and admire.

:flowers:

Well those people need to stop acting like Michael was a baby. He was an adult. A very capable, intelligent adult.

....a very capable, intelligent adult WHO WAS LONELY and surrounded by people he could not trust.

 

[bowen9999]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

:clapping:
I dont understand why people find it so hard to understand that Michael's death was NOT 'just' an accident. It was not 'just' someone who passed away......he was m.u.r.d.e.r.e.d. and Murray just the scapegoat taking away the attention from the REAL murderers. From the minute the news broke there should have been alarm bells ringing in EVERY fan's head.

Think what you want about these fans that were outside Michael's house and followed him around when he went to rehearsals, but they DID talk to him frequently (sometimes 10 minutes, sometimes 1 minute, sometimes 20 minutes) and they did try to get fans from all over the world to write to Michael. My letter was amongst those that Michael received.

Just like fans here on this forum are trying to find the truth and get justice for Michael, so are the fans from the TINI campaign. We all have different tactics, but we have one goal: JUSTICE for the man we all love and admire.

:flowers:


....a very capable, intelligent adult WHO WAS LONELY and surrounded by people he could not trust.

Amen!! :yes:

 

[daisy]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

:clapping:
I dont understand why people find it so hard to understand that Michael's death was NOT 'just' an accident. It was not 'just' someone who passed away......he was m.u.r.d.e.r.e.d. and Murray just the scapegoat taking away the attention from the REAL murderers. From the minute the news broke there should have been alarm bells ringing in EVERY fan's head.

Think what you want about these fans that were outside Michael's house and followed him around when he went to rehearsals, but they DID talk to him frequently (sometimes 10 minutes, sometimes 1 minute, sometimes 20 minutes) and they did try to get fans from all over the world to write to Michael. My letter was amongst those that Michael received.

Just like fans here on this forum are trying to find the truth and get justice for Michael, so are the fans from the TINI campaign. We all have different tactics, but we have one goal: JUSTICE for the man we all love and admire.

:flowers:


....a very capable, intelligent adult WHO WAS LONELY and surrounded by people he could not trust.

wow - Dutchie, great post! :clapping:

I can see no reason why the FF would lie that Michael complained about 50 concerts and felt pushed by AEG. In contrast to AEG, they have NO materialistic interests involved.
It is logical for me to put my trust in their words.

I think that people do not understand this, cause they are in denial that Michael could have been weaker and felt not ready for such demanding tour. I haven't heard ONE reasonable and logical argument that could convince me that the FF lied.

 

[Anna]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

Every adult has low moments when he needs help. I myself know for sure. I am now in a depression because too many bad things happened and can't do anything myself. People need help in these situations, when they are alone and desperate. Just like a child

Well I have had depression for years and have received a lot of help for it. And getting outside help is good. But in the end it is our own responsibility to take action to help ourselves. No one else can do it for us.
What exactly did you expect them to do for MJ? Considering we already know he was a healthy weight and it's pretty evident that he wanted to do those shows.
You think they should have tried to force MJ not do the shows that he was obviously putting his all into? Even if they had, would it have worked? Well we know the answer to that. No. If MJ wanted to do something, he did it.

:clapping:
I dont understand why people find it so hard to understand that Michael's death was NOT 'just' an accident. It was not 'just' someone who passed away......he was m.u.r.d.e.r.e.d. and Murray just the scapegoat taking away the attention from the REAL murderers. From the minute the news broke there should have been alarm bells ringing in EVERY fan's head.

Think what you want about these fans that were outside Michael's house and followed him around when he went to rehearsals, but they DID talk to him frequently (sometimes 10 minutes, sometimes 1 minute, sometimes 20 minutes) and they did try to get fans from all over the world to write to Michael. My letter was amongst those that Michael received.

Just like fans here on this forum are trying to find the truth and get justice for Michael, so are the fans from the TINI campaign. We all have different tactics, but we have one goal: JUSTICE for the man we all love and admire.

:flowers:


....a very capable, intelligent adult WHO WAS LONELY and surrounded by people he could not trust.

Michael was surrounded by people who obviously loved and cared about him. Especially Kenny. MJ had worked with him for years. And it was obvious that MJ loved and trusted him. They were friends. All these conspiracy theories that MJ was surrounded by evil people who didn't give a shit about him are ridiculous and totally irrational.
Michael was a healthy weight for his age and height. So the TINI people can rant until they are blue in the face about him being unhealthy. But the fact is, he wasn't.

 

[Nitro89]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

The thing about the TINI campaign is that is a good campaign, but only really ruined by extremists. Calling someone a 'Murderer' is a VERY strong accusation, especially without any evidence, but it does sound like these fans were personally closer to MJ then normal fans and maybe they DO know a little more then us. But I choose not to label anyone without the relevant facts.

But yes, I do believe that his health was deteriorating, he didn't agree to 50 shows, the time to rehearse the shows was just silly, should of been longer, the pressure was way to much

 

[Dutchie]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

Well I have had depression for years and have received a lot of help for it. And getting outside help is good. But in the end it is our own responsibility to take action to help ourselves. No one else can do it for us.
What exactly did you expect them to do for MJ? Considering we already know he was a healthy weight and it's pretty evident that he wanted to do those shows.
You think they should have tried to force MJ not do the shows that he was obviously putting his all into? Even if they had, would it have worked? Well we know the answer to that. No. If MJ wanted to do something, he did it.


Michael was surrounded by people who obviously loved and cared a lot about him. Especially Kenny. MJ had worked with him for years. And it was obvious that MJ loved and trusted him. They were friends.
Michael was a healthy weight for his age and height. So the TINI people can rant until they are blue in the face about him being unhealthy. But the fact is, he wasn't.

Kenny was loyal, yes. Wouldn't you be loyal if you were being paid THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS? Karen Faye was loyal...yet when Michael died she posted personal pictures and information about Michael's financial situation on her facebook page. Raymone Bain was loyal, yet when she had the chance she started suing Michael for every little thing she could think of. Heck, even GAVIN was loyal. Until he started saying Michael had molested him because his mama wanted money.

If you want to be naive, then that's fine. We all have a right to our own opinions. :flowers:

 

[Anna]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

Kenny was loyal, yes. Wouldn't you be loyal if you were being paid THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS? Karen Faye was loyal...yet when Michael died she posted personal pictures and information about Michael's financial situation on her facebook page. Raymone Bain was loyal, yet when she had the chance she started suing Michael for every little thing she could think of. Heck, even GAVIN was loyal. Until he started saying Michael had molested him because his mama wanted money.

If you want to be naive, then that's fine. We all have a right to our own opinions. :flowers:

I am not naive. I am just not some extremely paranoid conspiracy theorist who is determined that Michael could not have had any real friends who actually cared about him.

 

[Dutchie]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

I am not naive. I am just not some extremely paranoid conspiracy theorist who is determined that Michael could not have had any real friends who actually cared about him.

Thanks for calling me that, but neither am I. I choose to look at the facts, look at Michael's life, look at what happened (here on the board, and with Michael) during the trial and do the maths. By the way; the only REALLY loyal friends Michael had was Elizabeth Taylor and Omar Bhatti.

 

[Anna]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

Thanks for calling me that, but neither am I. I choose to look at the facts, look at Michael's life, look at what happened (here on the board, and with Michael) during the trial and do the maths. By the way; the only REALLY loyal friends Michael had was Elizabeth Taylor and Omar Bhatti.

Actually it seems more like you choose to ignore certain facts to back up your argument. But whatever. Michael would not have chosen to work with someone repeatedly if he didn't trust them. And you only have to watch This Is It to see that he loved him, but if you want to ignore the evidence you can see with your own eyes, then that's your choice.

 

[Dutchie]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

Actually it seems more like you choose to ignore certain facts to back up your argument. But whatever. Michael would not have chosen to work with someone repeatedly if he didn't trust them. And you only have to watch This Is It to see that he loved him, but if you want to ignore the evidence you can see with your own eyes, then that's your choice.

Did you not read what I wrote? I never said Michael didn't trust Kenny Ortega in particular.....I said the people around Michael could not be trusted. There's a difference. And by the way; just because Michael trusted someone it doesn't make them honest, loyal and trustWORTHY.

I say let's agree to disagree, you have your view and I have mine. The most important thing is that the truth prevails, and I hope someday ALL fans can see the truth.

 

[Anna]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

Did you not read what I wrote? I never said Michael didn't trust Kenny Ortega in particular.....I said the people around Michael could not be trusted. There's a difference. And by the way; just because Michael trusted someone it doesn't make them honest, loyal and trustWORTHY.

And why could they not be trusted exactly? What did they do that has made you so paranoid about them and their intentions? And I'm talking about FACTS here, not rumors or your opinion. Facts.
I have not seen anything to indicate that Kenny wasn't honest, loyal or trustworthy.

 

[Dutchie]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

And why could they not be trusted exactly? What did they do that has made you so paranoid about them and their intentions? And I'm talking about FACTS here, not rumors or your opinion. Facts.
I have not seen anything to indicate that Kenny wasn't honest, loyal or trustworthy.

Why exactly are you so keen on steering this away from the fact that Michael was murdered.....to discuss Kenny Ortega only?

 

[Rockin.]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

I do believe that he didn't want to do 50 shows in London.

I'm not sure, but I think I agree. I will say Randy Phillips told us himself that Michael went to sleep knowing he had 10 shows and woke up with 50. Randy also told us that Michael said (and he put on a high pitched voice on tv whilst saying this) 'No Randy no more shows, no more shows'. And cried.

You're right, 136lbs is only slightly underweight. The recommended weight for a small-framed 5'9 man is 142 - 151 lbs. That's hardly skin and bones like the follower fans say. Hmmmmm. It's all so hard to make sense of really.
Why were they so concerned then? :S

So now I see it is underweight, not healthy weight like people keep saying. We can't judge what this means from numbers on a screen you need to look at unedited photos from TII, and I have seen ones where he does look skin and bone - those from Zaldy's costume fitting. I know that when I was getting over my eating disorder and got up to just at the lower scale of recommended weight (not even underweight) my doctor was STILL trying to force me to eat and gain weight. We can see he was very skinny, yes it probably wasn't good and could have been an indicator of something wrong but anyway we know that propofol was what killed him, and that he was fairly healthy otherwise.

I don't know how some fans here can call TINI haters..?! Thats a ridiculous statement to make. They obviously care deeply about Michael, some take it to the extreme.

The point is before Michael died the TINI people - the follower fans were very concerned about Michael to the point where they thought something was seriously wrong... and well guess what, then he died

 

[Dutchie]

Re: One of the follower fans speaks out

The letters they wrote to Michael was somewhat emotional. Well, in truth, i cried, thinking that, that was the last contact he had with the fans, (reading the letters).

I wrote one of those letters that was delivered to Michael....it was indeed emotional. My heart broke into a million pieces when I realized it was the last thing he'd received from me.

 

[rainny]

Wow....I didn't know about the tweets to Kenny Ortega.

Kenny is not even AEG but was working for them just like

Karen Faye was. Is that incorrect?

 

[mj_forever]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

The follower fans definitely had MJ's best interest at heart, but that doesn't mean their perceptions were wholly accurate. Or they were getting the whole picture.

you could be right. TINI said at some point, security around Michael became tight and they were no longer allowed to have as much time with him as before. but i read an article which said that according to Michael's contract with AEG, meet and greet with fans was not allowed at all because Michael's catching a common cold from anyone could amount to millions of dollars.

 

[riviera1992]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

I dont like her tactics
MJ fans were screaming murderer muderer
as Murray appeared .. it just remined me of
those who were attcking MJ before he got his trial.

We cant represent Michael with hate or malice in our heart
If we do that we are NOT repesenting Michael

When kenny ortega twittered he had Bonchitus
Samatha replied to him "I hope you choke to death"

which he left up for all to see
as she and Karen Faye had been sending him
terrible things on twitter

Then she twittered
"Murderer" to kenny ortega

This is hateful and done with much malice
and that is not what Michael would have wanted

Even TINI stated she did NOT represent them when doing
such things .. becuase they got so many repies about what
Samanth was doing in thier name-

plus she was not being truthful in this interview
They did NOT place those letters in Mjs hand
they were given to a secutiry guard who said
he would give them to Michael.

they didnt find out he recieved them untill the memorial service
when the guard stated he gave them to Michael that evening.

These letters were very sensitive in nature
more or less them telling MJ they felt he was
not able or ready to doing the concerts _
They had lost faith in his ability to do so

I am trying to understand how Michael
may have felt that evening as he read all 25
of those letters _ just as he was getting ready
to embark on his creation TII _im sure it caused
him much concern that evening.

They were doing what they felt was right
but Michael didnt like negativity or being told he CANT
and especially to hear that from his fans must have
been overwhelming to him that evening.

I wish Murray would have never show up that night
Im sure Michael was very vunerable and had a more difficult
time sleeping ..

I do not belive in any conspiracy
My opinion is Murray acted alone with gross neglegence
he didnt care for his patient properly and was more interested
in the $$$$$ he would recieve. I dont think he had intent or
malice or for-thought of killing Michael

2nd degree will be very hard to get convition form a Jury
so said Tom Mez _ who also stated he though Murray should
have a Fair trial but CONVICT HIM ..

I agree with you. It's one thing to take action but making ALL fans look like lunatics tweetering murderer to Ortega isn't good.

They should be protesting in front of E studio offices for that disrespectful re-enactment last Friday night. God I hope MJ's kids never see this.

 

[MJearthsong]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

They are exaggerating. And those comments to Kenny Orgeta = GROSS.

I would have never even thought of such a thing!

Well done at the whole "healing the world" and "man in the mirror-ing" thing. :smilerolleyes:

You have to understand that TINI is a group, and the comments to KO were not from the official TINI twitter or address, but from a fan who supports TINI. Please make the distinction. TINI does not officially go about calling people murderers, even they have strong reason to believe that Michael was murdered. They are professional, go read their website or comments on FB. And no, I'm not one of them lol but I admire and support them.

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

You have to understand that TINI is a group, and the comments to KO were not from the official TINI twitter or address, but from a fan who supports TINI.

But if it comes from a fan that is part of the TINI is not really a very good thing. Why that can influence the other fans that are part of the group.
Imagine if the entire group decided to call Ortega or others who were part of the TII of murderer? That was a wrong attitude to call a murderer. Without doubt, it was not a correct behavior.

They are be fans followers, but did not live 24 hours a day, slept and ate all day with Michael in his private life in his house. Nobody is 100% sure of what really happened inside the house of Michael. There are many things we do not know.

 

[kasume]

Re: One of the follower fans speaks out

She is going up againts AEG and SOny, very powerful people. It very dangerous and yet she still wants to spread TINI and now she is accusing Sony and AEG have a role to play in murdering Michael and using Murray as the assasin. It's very dangerous. Those followers fans are so dedicated and they are willing to risk whatever it is just to spread the conspiracy about MJ's murder. I wish I could be there to help those fans but all I could is wish them all the best and wish MJ get justice as well!

That's right. But what can AEG and Sony do to her?????? Not release new MJ material for her???? Therefore losing money?

They are trying to drive fear into us. But, there is NO REASON for us fans to be afraid of them.

The ones that should be are those behind this whole murder, that I understand.

But us fans???? No way! Again, what can they do? Not release MJ material??

 

[MJearthsong]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

But if it comes from a fan that is part of the TINI is not really a very good thing. Why that can influence the other fans that are part of the group.
Imagine if the entire group decided to call Ortega or others who were part of the TII of murderer? That was a wrong attitude to call a murderer. Without doubt, it was not a correct behavior.

They are be fans followers, but did not live 24 hours a day, slept and ate all day with Michael in his private life in his house. Nobody is 100% sure of what really happened inside the house of Michael. There are many things we do not know.

TINI has thousand of supporters. There is free speech, and they can't control what people say, ok? But nothing slanderous came from the OFFICIAL TINI accounts.

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

TINI has thousand of supporters. There is free speech, and they can't control what people say, ok? But nothing slanderous came from the OFFICIAL TINI accounts.

Yes... I know. But who called the murderer of Ortega is part of the group TINI or at least seems to be part. What I mean is that this kind of attitude is very negative for the group. Well, it's just my opinion.

 

[Dutchie]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

Yes... I know. But who called the murderer of Ortega is part of the group TINI or at least seems to be part. What I mean is that this kind of attitude is very negative for the group. Well, it's just my opinion.

You can't judge the entire TINI group by the actions of one member. Look here at MJJC, we have many idiots posting on this forum yet that doesn't mean we're all nuts

 

[xo_lola_xo]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

You have to understand that TINI is a group, and the comments to KO were not from the official TINI twitter or address, but from a fan who supports TINI. Please make the distinction. TINI does not officially go about calling people murderers, even they have strong reason to believe that Michael was murdered. They are professional, go read their website or comments on FB. And no, I'm not one of them lol but I admire and support them.

I have read their website and the statements from the fans a few times. I stand by my judgement. No source is 100% accurate. I judged the context of the site like how I judge history sources in my history class i.e.

Q : "How valuable is the source in...?"
A : "The source is somewhat valuable as although it includes...it fails to mention..."

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

You can't judge the entire TINI group by the actions of one member. Look here at MJJC, we have many idiots posting on this forum yet that doesn't mean we're all nuts

I think I expressed myself wrong. :scratch:

I'm not judging the entire group by the actions of one member. :mello: I'm judging the wrong that member. For me it was an inappropriate behavior. It is just that.

 

[Dutchie]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

I think I expressed myself wrong. :scratch:

I'm not judging the entire group by the actions of one member. :mello: I'm judging the wrong that member. For me it was an inappropriate behavior. It is just that.

Ah, got it

 

[beatbox]

Re: A Final Conversation With Michael

had to come in this thread.. all i'm say is you all havn't seen nothing yet when the truth comes out the minds are going to be :shock: later ya'll

So you think the truth will come out?