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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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ivy said:
and there we have it from AP

Outside the presence of the jury, the judge overseeing the case refused to allow lawyers for Jackson's mother to amend their lawsuit and add a negligence claim based on testimony presented during the trial.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment...-anesthetic-for-sleep-1.1435155#ixzz2dZutFTSe
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I am fine with that decision as it seemed redundant. I believe the plaintiffs' lawyers were hedging their bet however, their evidence has shown it is more than likely AEG hired the doctor. AEG can show it was more than likely they did not however, they have not and do not seem the slight bit interested in discussing that in this trial. The plaintiffs proved without a shadow of doubt that if there was an alleged hiring, there was negligence.

It is very suspicious that no outlet discussed the conversations between the judge and the lawyers on Tuesday before Levounis testified however, AP is reporting the judge's ruling on Thursday.

As for Lee, she is no more suspicious than any other medical persons in Michael's life in my view. Any treatment she gave Michael did not kill him.
 
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About Vitamin shots, I know people who get B shots. Some get them if they feel extremely tired. Someone told me that only those shots work for her and not the pills, so her doctor gives them to her on a regular basis. I don't know about the C shots. I know C goes out in the pee pee, and you have to replenish it daily. Maybe Michael needed high dosages for a particular effect she wanted. It seems as though her treatment was only going to be for a short time, so I get the feeling she was supposed to build back his body & energy and leave.
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It´s . common when you go to the doctor because you are tired to take bloodtests.There can be many reasons for a person to be tired but one of the tests they use to begin with is hemoglobin and Erytrocyt Indices

ERYTHROCYTE size and HEMOGLOBIN content or concentration, usually derived from ERYTHROCYTE COUNT; BLOOD hemoglobin concentration; and HEMATOCRIT. The indices include the mean corpuscular volume (MCV), the mean corpuscular hemoglobin (MCH), and the mean corpuscular hemoglobin concentration (MCHC).
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http://mesh.kib.ki.se/swemesh/brs_swe.cfm?Term=Erytrocytindex

With the indices you can see for example if it is an iron deficiency anemia.
If it is the patient use to come back for bloodtests with Iron and Cobalamin= B12.
If Cobalamin is too low people can get shots or pills.
For some people who had surgery in the stomach and removed a part of it need to get shots with B12

I know sailors long time ago had lack of vitamin c, of course they who are starving lack most vitamins but if you eat vegetables and fruit it use to be no problem to get enough c-vitamin.
In fact, if the body gets too much c vitamin time after time it´s harder for the body to assimilate c vitamin from food later.

You can give Iron in an IV but I found it strange with vitamins in this case.
For C-vitamin it was better to tell Michael to drink juice and eat fruits.
I have worked with bloodtests the last 25 years and I can´t remember that I ever have taken a test to see if someone lacks vitamin c
 
MIST;3895809 said:
I´ve been working in a healthcentral for many years and haven´t heard about IV therapy for vitamins before, at least not for a healthy person who can eat. Nurses use to give injections for B vitamins.
I´m not sure if I´ve read she gave him C vitamin too, or something else , I do remember I found it strange and thought it was unnecessary.
It takes longer time to give vitamins through an IV than to give an injection or give tablets...
I think it was a good advise to tell Michael to stop drink Red Bull it contains caffeine, which can make you get trouble sleeping.

About energydrinks


http://www.mnn.com/food/beverages/stories/5-health-problems-linked-to-energy-drinks
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It seems that iv vitamin therapy is common in celebrity world, see the following links
http://www.wellpathclinic.com/simon-cowell-iv-therapy
http://www.medpagetoday.com/CelebrityDiagnosis/41227
In that article Mayers cocktail is mentioned as SL testified during CM trial that she tried that on MJ, and CM lawyers before trial tried it to make sound like it was something that it wasn't.
 
ivy said:
and there we have it from AP

Outside the presence of the jury, the judge overseeing the case refused to allow lawyers for Jackson's mother to amend their lawsuit and add a negligence claim based on testimony presented during the trial.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment...-anesthetic-for-sleep-1.1435155#ixzz2dZutFTSe
Click to expand...

Thanks Ivy. I fully expected judge to deny it. Interesting that it says "based on the testimony presented during the trial".
So I read it that plaintiff did not present anything during trial that would have made judge to allow amended charge.

I wonder what judge decides on Thursday, whether to give a boot to this case or allow it to go ahead.
In one way I hope she gives the boot, but one way I would like to hear from Tohme and few others.

The trial is back to normal on Tuesday?
 
Bubs;3895952 said:
It seems that iv vitamin therapy is common in celebrity world, see the following links
http://www.wellpathclinic.com/simon-cowell-iv-therapy
http://www.medpagetoday.com/CelebrityDiagnosis/41227
In that article Mayers cocktail is mentioned as SL testified during CM trial that she tried that on MJ, and CM lawyers before trial tried it to make sound like it was something that it wasn't.
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Nurse Lee checked Michael´s blood And medically, nutritionally I didn’t find anything. And uh – just a little low blood
sugar.
She gave him vitamins in IV although he didn´t need it.
Too much vitamins aren´t good for you, but celebrities pay for it and then they get it.
If they feel better afterwards it can be because they believe in it, like sugar pills.
But I suppose nurse Lee isn´t worse than the others treating celebrities.
I just don´t find it ethically correct that people will pay for something they do not needs from educated people like doctors, nurses , nutritionist
 
^^ Maybe MJ needed some vitamins as didn't he mostly eat vegetarian food, and I suppose she gave something to get his energy levels up, which (I think) he needed due the demanding rehearsals
At least MJ was ready to try something homeopathic remedies instead of taking what other doctors (pills and injections) gave him, and in my book its a good thing.
 
Bubs said:
The trial is back to normal on Tuesday?
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I don't know how the schedule is. they were complaining the trial will be a few days each week from now on. so yeah Monday is labor day in USA - a holiday, and they'll be back in court Tuesday but I don't know if it'll be full 4 days or if it'll be partial days. The only plan is that AEG will have 2 more weeks. and rebuttal case will start September 16. then closing and verdict phase.
 
I remember during the Murray trial Ed Chernoff kept hinting that Cherylynn Lee was doing more than giving Michael vitamins but he got shut down by David Walgren and Judge Pastor. I wish we had more background information on her.
 
That piece with Anderson, how come Michael is travelling with a mini clinic, when one of the witnesses said that the Germans were called in and brought their own equipment, put him to sleep that night, and left. I thought this was done 2 times. Am I mixing up the tours?
 
^^

It is interesting yes. I believe Karen on her Fb has said Ratner came to History tour on the second leg. Germany concerts were in the second leg too. So one would expect Ratner to be there too. I think we need to wait for Ratner deposition. The "German doctors" Debbie thought could be Ratner, or Ratner could be there and Debbie might be unaware of his presence. We will hopefully understand it better.
 
^^What I admired about Ratner is that when Gupta went to interview him, he said no, that Michael was not buried yet, and this was not the time. I really liked that. He is different from all the others like Klien, Oxman, siblings who ran to the papers talking about drugs, before the coroner even gave a preliminary verdict. Thinking back, I think he is the only person who made a comment to remind people that something sad happened.

I am interested in what he has to say too.
 
Karen didn't work on the second leg on History Tour. But maybe she knows Ratner came anyway.
 
Bubs said:
^^ Maybe MJ needed some vitamins as didn't he mostly eat vegetarian food, and I suppose she gave something to get his energy levels up, which (I think) he needed due the demanding rehearsals
At least MJ was ready to try something homeopathic remedies instead of taking what other doctors (pills and injections) gave him, and in my book its a good thing.
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There are PLENTY of vitamins in "vegetarian food"--she did complete blood work and only found somewhat low blood sugar--and I think that's a good thing as if your blood sugar is high that can be a sign of diabetes or pre-diabetes.

From what she has said about her treatment, IMO it was deficient. There is no need for IVs for vitamins in a healthy person as it is available from nutritious food. (MJ had no plaque in his veins--so he ate a low fat diet, which is good.) I do agree re not sleeping with so much stimulation--lights on, music playing, DVD's on, but on the whole that is pretty obvious to say it's not ideal forsleeping (!). Her main treatment was the teas, IV, etc, so IMO it was basically a waste of time. And she led him to think she could help, which IMO she could not or did not. On the other hand, going on all those talk shows and saying he begged her to find someone to give him propofol for any amt of $ was not helpful to MJ and how is she different from any other betrayer of MJ's confidence (like Schmuley etc)?

Being a vegan or vegetarian is a very healthy diet and by far healthier than eating too much meat and dairy and too little fruit, veggies, and so on. I remember Brad Sunderberg saying that in the studio there would always be a fruit bowl and MJ would be the only one who would eat it--he would really 'rip into a pomegranite" according to Brad. I actually bought a pomegranite to eat in celebration of his b-day. I hardly ever eat them but I thought if he could eat one with such gusto, why not???
 
Charles Thomson ?@CEThomson 22h

Sounds like Jermaine may be called to testify in the AEG case. He was due in the UK today but can't come as he was served with court papers.
 
^^

speculation.

Merrill Osmond ?@merrillosmond 1 Sep
Jermaine Jackson will not be at gala tonight as he was served a court injunction and cannot leave USA.

This is a civil trial and they serve subpoenas and not only they arrange around business schedules (Walker, Payne, Ortega, Faye), some people can also ignore it and disappear (Grace). So as the tweet is written "court injunction" and "cannot leave USA" to me sounds this is more likely about Jermaine's unpaid child support.
 
^^I thought in the other thread it said he could not leave UK, but now this says he is in the US? I guess that means AEG can call him then.
 
Petrarose said:
^^I thought in the other thread it said he could not leave UK, but now this says he is in the US? I guess that means AEG can call him then.
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No, it's always been the US, he is stuck in the US and can't leave for the UK where the Gala is going to take place.
 
Gala was Sunday btw.

If this was something AEG trial related, I don't see why he couldn't attend the Gala and return back to USA to testify a few days later, trial will be ongoing for another month. So I tend to think it is related to unpaid child support.
 
Well why can't you go to a gala if you cannot leave the country? Maybe he was ashamed, so he did not attend. Oh well we will see him on the stand if AEG calls him. That should be interesting.

Twinklee this is what it says in the other thread:

@Merrill Osmond- Jermaine has been pulled from his event in London due to a court injunction and can not leave to USA.

This is why I am confused. This writes like he is in London and can't leave to USA.
 
Petrarose said:
Well why can't you go to a gala if you cannot leave the country? Maybe he was ashamed, so he did not attend. Oh well we will see him on the stand if AEG calls him. That should be interesting.

Twinklee this is what it says in the other thread:

@Merrill Osmond- Jermaine has been pulled from his event in London due to a court injunction and can not leave to USA.

This is why I am confused. This writes like he is in London and can't leave to USA.
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Merrill was in London. Jermaine was supposed to be at the event in London as well but because of a court injunction he couldn't leave the USA to attend the event.
Here's the original tweet:
Merrill Osmond ?@merrillosmond 1 Sep
Jermaine Jackson will not be at gala tonight as he was served a court injunction and cannot leave USA. pic.twitter.com/KSlyuOUNpQ
 
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he is in London and can't leave to USA.]
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Well that doesnt make sense cuz if he is in london then how the heck can he "not leave usa" if he in london......lol
 
I do not believe it matters what Ratner testifies to unless he testifies that Gongaware was aware of Michael’s past issues. Ratner administering propofol more than a decade ago does not explain why AEG inserted themselves as a third party to a doctor-patient relationship. Ratner may be another witness revealing Michael’s personal life for no other purpose than to deflect from AEG's possible liability.
 
Tygger;3896938 said:
I do not believe it matters what Ratner testifies to unless he testifies that Gongaware was aware of Michael’s past issues. Ratner administering propofol more than a decade ago does not explain why AEG inserted themselves as a third party to a doctor-patient relationship. Ratner may be another witness revealing Michael’s personal life for no other purpose than to deflect from AEG's possible liability.
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Whether it matters will depend on what he testifies to. I would have thought that someone like Ratner was a more valuable witness than say an addiction specialist. He can show Michaels history with propofol and the secrecy around it. I must admit I am curious that Debbie did not mention Ratner, she testified that she witnessed two occasions where Michael had propofol where local doctors were brought in, perhaps her testimony was only based on the first leg of the tour idk, it wasn't clear.
 
Last Tear, not one witness has shown Michael's secrecy regarding propofol OR any other substance for that matter.

Unless Ratner can connect Gongaware to his tales, it will be yet another testimony where Michael's private life is publicized for dissection and judgment only because AEG prefers to publicize Michael's private life in their feeble effort to defend themselves.

Every word about Michael is one less word about AEG's possible liability.
 
Tygger said:
not one witness has shown Michael's secrecy regarding propofol
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really? how many witnesses claimed they did not know Propofol and how many claimed they knew about it?
 
Ivy, allow me to clarify my comment: in AEG’s defense, not one of their medical professional witnesses who have treated Michael have shown Michael to be secretive with propofol or any other substance for that matter.
 
Tygger;3897153 said:
Ivy, allow me to clarify my comment: in AEG’s defense, not one of their medical professional witnesses who have treated Michael have shown Michael to be secretive with propofol or any other substance for that matter.
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fair enough. how about non medical people? friends, family, co workers, employees and so on. how many of those testified to know or not know Propofol?
 
Tygger;3897153 said:
Ivy, allow me to clarify my comment: in AEG’s defense, not one of their medical professional witnesses who have treated Michael have shown Michael to be secretive with propofol or any other substance for that matter.
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From the testimony given to date do you feel that Michael was open about his use of propofol? Do you feel for example that Katherine knew or Karen Faye or Kenny Ortega?
 
Ivy, Last Tear, offhand, I can only remember LaPerruque, Randy Jackson, and Rowe testifying for AEG. All three were aware Michael had an issue and was seeking help to rectify it. Rowe watched propofol being administered to Michael.
 
Yes his wife knew but the others knew of issues but not specifically about propofol.
 
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