[ Pretrial Discussion Closed ] AEG files summary judgment motion to dismiss Katherine's lawsuit

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Oh, but I do believe Conrad Murray deliberately killed Michael Jackson.
Why are you all bent on making excuses for and being baffled by Murray's actions?
Just accept the obvious Murray's intent was to harm Michael Jackson, and he did.

sorry to say but there's nothing obvious about Murray's intent, even the criminal case was involuntary manslaughter which means no intent.

You also have to look to the facts. Doctors actually make the best murderers as they can use their knowledge to kill people without any evidence, untraceable stuff and so on. Murray's mistake was quite obvious which makes it seem like an accident and not a planned murder. I also do not think that a person that was in the mindset of " oohh I'm gonna kill Michael today" would also have the mindset of "I'm gonna call multiple women while I'm murdering him deliberately" and "I'm gonna send emails to insurance people".

Fall guys by definition take the fall for other parties and handsomely get rewarded. However Murray isn't taking any fall (he hasn't accepted any responsibility) and he wasn't being paid. He hasn't been paid a single cent to this day.

Most murders come with a motive. There's no obvious motive here. Assuming that Michael continued to tour and do a multi year wold tour both AEG and Murray would have made a lot more significant money and profit. Therefore they actually had a lot more incentive for having Michael alive and keep touring.

Finally I would prefer if you don't try to push your opinions on other people. You might think that deliberately killed Michael but for some of us it doesn't add up.

 

[CherubimII]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Finally I would prefer if you don't try to push your opinions on other people.
You might think that deliberately killed Michael but for some of us it doesn't add up

Why so touchy? :blink: I don't claim to have all the answers. :fortuneteller:
We already know Conrad Murray is a liar, and guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
I am entitled to my opinion just as you are.
I happen to believe Conrad Murray is also a murderer and a "bad actor".

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Why so touchy?

You are entitled to your opinion and so is everyone else. So I don't appreciate the "just accept" order coming from anyone. You can write your opinion without trying it to push it on other people.

 

[Member Service]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, but not to insult others for their opinion or trying to force yours view on them. Thats isnt how this works. No one is making excuses they are discussing and stating the facts as they know them. Voice your opinion and reasons for them and dont insult anyone or tell anyone how they must think. If you have some facts to share to back up your views, share them. but please dont jump on members for sharing theirs. We dont have to insult one another to express our views or opinions. Lets get along. Ok

 

[Petrarose]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I guess kjs lawyers arent that bright because it is the family who seem to be helping aeg. kj says she knew about previous diprivan use in order to accuse gongaware yet in the same breath that helps aeg by showing diprivan did not just turn up on the radar when aeg and murray did.

i dont believe for one min kj knew about previous dip use at the time it was happening. did steven hofflin, when he was giving interviews mention such use? he claimed to be speaking for the family in the summer of 09 and or is she just taking such info from rumours and stories post june 09.

i really hope aeg have kept a check of all the numerous stories the family have come out with

Elusive I have to agree with you here. I do not think Katherine knew about any prof use by Michael prior to his death. I think Katherine's information about Michael's personal life was limited to what he told her, or her children told her. I remember right after his death she claimed how good he looked the last time she saw him. Then as soon as they filed the AEG case she began with the stories of how bad he looked.

I think as her lawyers began preparing a case for her, they no doubt had sessions where they tried to help her answer questions that she may encounter during her deposition, so they created most of the claims Katherine makes in her lawsuit. Because they did not research into ALL the statements that Katherine had made since Michael's death to make sure her information will not conflict, AEG is finding many holes in her various statements. The Jacksons do not know when to be quiet.

When you listen to Katherine's interviews you can tell what information was explained to her in depth and she had to learn. These are said clearly and are factual.

 

[magiktori]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Lord MJ had no one that cared.. My God he was shivering hot/cold and not one person took him to emergency. Cherilyn Lee told Faheem to take MJ to the hospital yet no one did? Why weren't they concerned with his weight loss and shivering nature and sedated behavior?[/
Did anybody had an opportunity to witness "shivering neture and sedated behavior" every day? Usually you don't go to the hospital if you have symptoms once only. Some people go to an emergency room when they suspect the stroke the first time in their life but most people don't. And MJ was an adult and the one who decided if to go to an emergency room or not.

not only that but i'm sure they needed their jobs

 

[Petrarose]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

+Does anyone remember what date Michael voice was taped on muarry's phone? How close to 6/25 was it?

I am really curious to see how the other side will respond to this latest filing by AEG. I mean they will have to have some very good legal points that will allow this case to continue. Based on the fact that AEG did not do good expert research the last time with the e-mails, allowing Katherine's side to win that one, maybe Katherine's side will come up with something that AEG did not think about again. I hope not, but who knows.

 

[LastTear]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

^^^ I don't remember the date being disclosed, but I may have missed it.

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Michael was recorded on Murray's i-phone recorder on either May 10th or May 12th 2009. It was a couple days before the May 14th anniversary party for Joe and Katherine

 

[bouee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

+Does anyone remember what date Michael voice was taped on muarry's phone? How close to 6/25 was it?

I am really curious to see how the other side will respond to this latest filing by AEG. I mean they will have to have some very good legal points that will allow this case to continue. Based on the fact that AEG did not do good expert research the last time with the e-mails, allowing Katherine's side to win that one, maybe Katherine's side will come up with something that AEG did not think about again. I hope not, but who knows.

May 10th I think. Why ? I don't follow .

 

[marebear]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I know Michael was an adult and can't make him do anything he didn't want to. I just wish things could have been different and Michael still here.

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

+Does anyone remember what date Michael voice was taped on muarry's phone? How close to 6/25 was it?

Why and in what context Jackson was recorded may never be known. The recording was recovered from the personal iPhone Murray turned over to police a month after the doctor was interviewed by police. Stephen Marx, the forensic computer examiner who found it, could only say in his testimony Wednesday that the recording was created at 9:05 a.m. on May 10, 2009.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/06/local/la-me-conrad-murray-20111006

 

[Petrarose]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

May 10th I think. Why ? I don't follow .

Sometimes I wonder if at some point Muarry felt michael was not too keen on him coming, or he felt Michael was too slow to look at his contract, or Michael was acting slightly nonchalant towards Muarry's employment, which would make Muarry a bit alarmed about his job security as June approached. This may prompt him to be more careless than usual as we saw on that night. Of course, I have no evidence, but I was just wondering about that. The iphone tape would then be something to use in the future for some $$$$$$.

 

[CherubimII]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Sometimes I wonder if at some point Muarry felt michael was not too keen on him coming, or he felt Michael was too slow to look at his contract, or Michael was acting slightly nonchalant towards Muarry's employment, which would make Muarry a bit alarmed about his job security as June approached. This may prompt him to be more careless than usual as we saw on that night. Of course, I have no evidence, but I was just wondering about that. The iphone tape would then be something to use in the future for some $$$$$$.

I believe Conrad Murray's actions were calculated and deliberate; because he knew Michael Jackson was unhappy with the medical care he was providing him and that Michael was not going to not hire him for the "This Is It Tour".
Remember Michael Jackson never signed Murray's AEG contract;
and, perhaps, he never planned to do so.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

^^Who knows. Well I better leave the conspiracy alone since this is in the general part of the forum. No point in me getting in trouble before Christmas.

 

[AliCat]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Michael's liver was strong, there was no scar tissue, if Michael were a heavy duty drug user, whether street drugs or painkillers, his liver would not have been strong, he would've needed a liver transplant to carry on in life.

About the time Michael died, Acetaminophen was in the News about causing so much liver damage that people were dying from taking too much Acetaminophen, as it is in so many products, i.e. cough syrup, headache medicine, sleep products, etc.

Steve Jobs, who was the owner of Apple Inc, had a liver transplant before he died. If Michael Jackson's liver was needed, at the time of his death, Steve Jobs could have used Michael's in his liver transplant. So...why do people continue saying Michael had a heavy duty drug use through the decades? He died from Murray being negligent with the Propofol usage (including the use of lidocaine in the IV of administering the Propofol drip to Michael's vein during the night- highly toxic, if you want to know why Michael seemed out of sorts at times near the time of his death).

Too much tomfoolery!

 

[jamba]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I just wish that AEG had paid more attention to Kenny Ortega's idea to get professional help (not Murray of course). He sent that email but they basically ignored it when Murray and Michael both said he was fine, but as K.O. knew he was not. However, maybe they were fooled into some complacency by the fact that the next 2 days the rehearsals were great.

I think Michael was afraid to go to the hospital. He had already been read the 'riot act' (I think) and threatened with AEG cancelling the tour and he would have had to pay the bills for all the preparations up to that point or have the asset he put up taken by AEG. However, if he had gone to the hospital maybe they would have kept him overnight and he would not have had the propofol and maybe they would have detected his sleeping problems and who knows if it would have led to some better medical solutions.

Nurse Lee was so upset at the trial and I think she felt that she was so close to helping him and yet could not or did not. I remember she said she tried the herbal teas, the quiet bedroom, but he only got 5 hours, or something like that, but it was 5 hours of natural sleep, way better than unnatural, anesthetized sleep.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Remember Michael Jackson never signed Murray's AEG contract;
and, perhaps, he never planned to do so.

There's one problem with this theory. If you read the summary Murray's contract was finalized June 24. Katie Jorrie emailed Murray the final contract on June 24 and Murray had faxed it back to her on June 24th evening. Neither Michael nor AEG even had the chance to see and sign the contract. They could have signed it the next day. So this debunks your theory and expecting Michael to sign the contract at 1:30 AM after a long rehearsal when he's tired etc. isn't that realistic. What's realistic is that Jorrie or someone from AEG would probably pick the contract from Murray in the following day (June 25) or so and then get Phillips and Michael sign it to finalize it earliest at June 25 or later.

So Michael wasn't delaying to sign the contract, AEG wasn't delaying to sign the contract, Murray had only signed the contract a few hours before Michael died. Murray had no reason to think Michael would not sign it as far as Murray concerned his contract was just finalized and was about to be signed.

I believe Conrad Murray's actions were calculated and deliberate; because he knew Michael Jackson was unhappy with the medical care he was providing him and that Michael was not going to not hire him for the "This Is It Tour".

Also if you claim Murray murdered Michael because he didn't sign the contract or would not sign the contract then your theory is crime of passion. That Murray got so angry and snapped and killed Michael. But the question is how does AEG then fit into this and why do you blame AEG? If you are claiming a crime of passion - Murray's anger that Michael did not sign, it would have nothing to do with AEG.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

My true opinion as to why Michael didn't want to go to the hospital even though he was feeling ill is this...I think he was afraid they were going to detect the propofol in his blood and in his mind there would of went everything...the tour...his sleep aid and he probably would of gotten in trouble and Murray being a doctor DEFINITELY would of gotten in trouble. I have been thinking this for awhile now...just haven't put it into words anywhere.

 

[loveforever]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

^ Propofol leave body very soon, can't be traced in blood. no dependency ( one of the reason Michael trusted this drug). Michael's death has nothing to do with he was cold or any health related reason. He was dead because murray administrated too much propofol without monitoring him caused Michael in deep sedation or general anesthesia that his breathe stopped then his heart stopped due to lack of air(respiratory arrest). The doctors testified in trial said if Murray was watching Michael, a simple chin lifting or Ambu bag to help michael breath, Michael would still be here today.

i find this why Michael didnt go to hospital brought up by fans very often. Don't we go to the hospital when there is the emergency situations life threatening problems such as bad injuries, stroke, heart attack ect? don't we commonly go to our family doctors when we are sick? Don't forget michael hired the doctor he trusted at the time, it makes so much sense michael accepted his doctor's diagnose and treatment, especially he felt better the next day and the problem was not persistent(Murray most likely told Michael it's the side effect of the drugs he gave Michael, he will be fine). Dont forget everyone was saying Michael was great two days before his death.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I think the only reason Miahel did not go to the hospital was because he did not want it to get into the news with all the usual elaborations that would be made by the media. I don't think he was afraid of AEG cancelling the tour because at the trial I think it was Randy who said that both Michael and AEG would have to agree on a cancellation. AEG could not cancel on their own.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

^ Propofol leave body very soon, can't be traced in blood. no dependency ( one of the reason Michael trusted this drug). Michael's death has nothing to do with he was cold or any health related reason. He was dead because murray administrated too much propofol without monitoring him caused Michael in deep sedation or general anesthesia that his breathe stopped then his heart stopped due to lack of air(respiratory arrest). The doctors testified in trial said if Murray was watching Michael, a simple chin lifting or Ambu bag to help michael breath, Michael would still be here today.

Propofol can be detected in Urine..hair and finger nails for periods of time. We DON'T know what Michael was thinking when he didn't want to go to the hospital (Thats why I started my post with "my opinion".) Even at the trial our expert witness said that Michael feeling hot then cold could of been affects from the medication he was taken at the time...per the propofol affecting his nervous system. Believe ME I KNOW what caused Michael's death... I seen every single minute of that trial.

 

[CherubimII]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

^ Propofol leave body very soon, can't be traced in blood. no dependency ( one of the reason Michael trusted this drug). Michael's death has nothing to do with he was cold or any health related reason. He was dead because murray administrated too much propofol without monitoring him caused Michael in deep sedation or general anesthesia that his breathe stopped then his heart stopped due to lack of air(respiratory arrest). The doctors testified in trial said if Murray was watching Michael, a simple chin lifting or Ambu bag to help michael breath, Michael would still be here today.

So, once again, I will say I believe Conrad Murray's actions againt Michael Jackson were calculated and deliberate.

 

[bouee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Sometimes I wonder if at some point Muarry felt michael was not too keen on him coming, or he felt Michael was too slow to look at his contract, or Michael was acting slightly nonchalant towards Muarry's employment, which would make Muarry a bit alarmed about his job security as June approached. This may prompt him to be more careless than usual as we saw on that night. Of course, I have no evidence, but I was just wondering about that. The iphone tape would then be something to use in the future for some $$$$$$.

From Ivy's summary :

Tim Woolley Declaration

Woolley is the accountant for the TII tour. He basically summarizes his interactions with Murray. He's told my Gongaware to talk to Murray about a contract. He makes the first phone call at May 8, 2009. He says this was a mundane phone call to gather information. He confirms this phone call with an email on May 8th and May 14th as he got no response. Murray responds May 15th asking him to send him a draft of a contract so that Murray's lawyer can take a look over it. May 28th Murray emails Woolley asking for "good faith" salary payment, Woolley refuses this request saying AEG only pays when there's an fully executed agreement. June 4th Murray sends and email asking about how the draft of the contract going on. On June 16th Woolley sends the first draft of contract to Murray. June 19th Murray emails him his revised version of draft of the contract. June 23rd Woolley emails Murray asking some personal details (date of birth etc). June 24th Katie Jorrie emails the third draft to both Murray and Woolley.

So the recording was done right after Tim Woolley contacted Murray. If Murray was contacted by Michael in march/april, he might have found that things were a bit slow.

With this, he only had one client / patient , so he was ultra dependent on his patient, but he closed his Las Vegas clinic in June.

Does anyone remember Dr Adams lawyer ? He said that Adams, an anesthesiologist, was contacted for the job. Murray said he witnessed him giving propofol to Michael. Dr Adams lawyer I think said Adams contacted Murray to accept the job, but Murray didn't contact him back. Does anyone rembember if the lawyer gave an approximate date for this ?
Maybe Adams was the "assistant" that Murray asked for London and/ or maybe Murray feared Adams.

Petrarose, I think Murray has a habit of doing things behind people's backs. He cheated on his wife, had like 137 mistresses everywhere he went, kids everyhere... I'm not sure he had any reason for the recording other than he saw an opportuity, and did it, "just in case".
It's one of the resaons why I have doubts about the extent of the lies he told Michael and what else he did behind his back, and everyone elses'back. That recording, if sold to the media before the tour, would have been a problem for AEG too.

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I believe Conrad Murray's actions were calculated and deliberate; because he knew Michael Jackson was unhappy with the medical care he was providing him and that Michael was not going to not hire him for the "This Is It Tour".
Remember Michael Jackson never signed Murray's AEG contract; and, perhaps, he never planned to do so.

You say MJ was unhappy with the medical care CM provided, yet he didn't fire CM, but let him to inject propofol and other meds in him on regular basis. Your picture of MJ is like he was stupid helpless man?
I would think if MJ was unhappy with CM, he would have get other doctor do help him, and not keep doctor he disliked around him.

Would you let doctor that you don't trust or like, to treat you or would you change your doc?

 

[qbee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

(including the use of lidocaine in the IV of administering the Propofol drip to Michael's vein during the night- highly toxic, if you want to know why Michael seemed out of sorts at times near the time of his death).

I was wondering what you feel was was wrong in Murray using lidocaine? You seem to think that is unusual and shouldn't be used. When in fact Lidocaine is the most common med used by anesthesiologists for the pain associated with a bolus drip. It has a numbing effect to stop the burning sensation. It wasn't unusual for Murry to use it. It is a common practice and the medication wasn't associated with his death. There wasnt any toxicity found in his system from it. I dont think it played a role in his death based on the evidence. but I suppose it could have have caused MJs earlier symptons if it was not admisitered properly.

He stopped breathing under sedation of Propofol and lorazapam which is also very common to happen in patients. But usually an anethesilologit is present to restore breathing quickly with no consequence. Sadly MJ didn't have any competent physician present to do that for him. being Murray left the room. and his patient unatended.

Had Murray been present to monitor and restore Michael's breathing he could be alive and WELL today.

 

[LastTear]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I believe Conrad Murray's actions were calculated and deliberate; because he knew Michael Jackson was unhappy with the medical care he was providing him and that Michael was not going to not hire him for the "This Is It Tour".
Remember Michael Jackson never signed Murray's AEG contract;
and, perhaps, he never planned to do so.

Killed him out of spite? If Murray had acted on intent why wouldn't he do a better job of covering this up, using some other meds could have pushed to jury to self administration.

^^Who knows. Well I better leave the conspiracy alone since this is in the general part of the forum. No point in me getting in trouble before Christmas.

Don't wanna end up on that naughty list. Lol

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

IMO had Michael gone to the ER it would have been a huge mess the press saying he was dying and faking at the same time. Certain family members appointing themselves has his spokesperson saying he had this or that. Roger F saying he is almost OD Harvey L putting his stupid spin on it. Stupid things he had to go through. And going to an ER before let us not forget led to a family saying he killed their granny

 

[jamba]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

The point to me is that when Michael showed up at the rehearsal and K. Ortega had to feed him, cover him with a blanket, and reassure him and then send him home that that was a major wake-up call for the tour organizers to do what Ortega recommended, which was to get professional help. K. O. recommended a psychiatrist, I think. He said Michael was not himself, was acting 'lost' and was scared that the tour would be cancelled. Then they have the meeting and then Murray decides to take Michael off the propofol b/c he (Murray) was scared and maybe had some dim realization that what he was doing was creating havoc in Michael's system. And b/c Michael finally got off the propofol for 2 days and got some relatively natural sleep (although he was using sleep meds) he gave some good rehearsals. At that point things seemed to be back on track for everyone. But the problem was that Michael did not sleep with the alternate sleep meds on the 24th, and Murray mixed them with profofol and left him alone.

I myself got dependent on sleep meds (ambien) and although you might not realize it, they are very addictive and you get to the point where you can't sleep without them and they are very hard to get off of. This is what happened to Michael in 93 when he went to rehab in London. You go through a withdrawal period where you just can't sleep even though you are exhausted. Finally, you do start to sleep a few hours without the meds and then you are in the clear. It is very hard to withdraw from those meds once you get dependent. You are only supposed to take ambien for 3 weeks straight. I took it for years. Michael needed a major detox a la what he went through in London to get off the meds and sleep naturally. It would have delayed the tour but ultimately saved his life and the tour in the long run.

As far as going to the hospital, your health is more important than anything else, more important than what people will say (the media). I know they would have been all over it but in the long run, he needed help and that might have been a way to get it. Also AEG would have had to face the issue head on and not swept it under the rug. Yes, it is all couda, wouda, shoulda--what might have been.

 

[qbee]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

^^^ Yes we know know what happened but AEG would not know what was causing the problems. They seen MJ was out of sorts a few days and KO reported it and was concerned by Michael actions and symptoms. They suspected drugs but did not know for sure what was causing the probs. All AEG could do was recommed MJ to get help. They have no authority to force MJ to a Dr or physciatrist. They did tell MJ get your health back on track or the show cant go on. They have no authority to force Michael to do that. Not even family can do that. It is only Michael's decision. He and his DR said they would correct and take care of it.

AEG are not medical experts, Dr Murray was. So all they can do is rely on what the Doctor and MJ told them at that time. They seen improvement and thought the prob was taken care of. I feel it is unreasonable to expect them to know or do anything beyond that. They had no knowledge of what was going on behind closed doors.