Randall Sullivan's book "Untouchable"

[shelly_webster]

@Bonnie Blue-----That's a possibility. It's something that I am not sure of. It can be read in more than one way.

Next Tmez is telling MJ to leave Neverland. He fears Sneddon is drumming up drug/prescription charges against MJ, so Tmez talks with Grace Rwarmba:
[FONT=TimesNewRoman???????][FONT=TimesNewRoman???????]Sneddon and his associates were already
discussing how they might charge Jackson for obtaining prescription drugs under
false names. A preliminary investigation of this possibility would last well into the
next autumn. After a series of phone conversations with Grace Rwaramba and other
intermediaries, Mesereau spoke to Michael on the evening of June 15: “ I told him,
‘Michael, I know how much Neverland means to you. And that it’s a glorious,
enchanted place, and that you’ve known real peace there. But I really believe that
its time in your life is passed. We all have to move on. You have to move on. I
don’t think you’ll ever be really safe there again. Go somewhere else.’”

------------------------------

I recall that Grace (she denied this I believe) had given an interview to a female British journalist and accused MJ of taking drugs...mixing too much and not eating enough??.....and saying that she had to pump MJs stomach and things like that but Grace does deny this I think. But, according to Tmez, it was after talking with Grace and maybe some others, he told MJ to leave. Was Grace saying that she would testify against MJ about drugs?? (the wrath of a woman scorned....oh no, not again). Again, I'm just wondering about what I'm reading.

Sullivan earlier in the book talked about Frank Dileo and Frank claiming to be MJs manager when he was not, and signing MJ to those Allgood (or whatever the name) concerts?

Was MJ completely surrounded by enemies?? The idea of that is scary.
[/FONT][/FONT]

Just one point Dileo won that lawsuit against Allgood.

 

[morinen]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

I don't think we owe TM anything--he did a great job for Michael and he got paid well and he earned a lot of respect. Yes, we can be grateful for that, I agree. BUT that does not give him a pass forever. Everyone makes mistakes and no one is immune to being called out. He is going overboard on this book. He started out with a very respectful tone in his comments to the fans, but this last video is NOT respectful at all when it uses words like "vicious, malicious, disgusting." That is not recognizing that there are legitimate failings in this book. This where he lost me when he stopped believing that the fans, and the reviewers like Michiko Kakutani of the NYTimes, have a case to make.

To be fair, fans have directed very similar adjectives at him (even in this thread), any many have completely disregarded all the important things he had to say in the book. So 1:1. I just generally don't like where this is going.

 

[ivy]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

Sullivan earlier in the book talked about Frank Dileo and Frank claiming to be MJs manager when he was not, and signing MJ to those Allgood (or whatever the name) concerts?

Was MJ completely surrounded by enemies?? The idea of that is scary.[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

Actually that's an unfair representation of Frank and just parroting what All Good claimed. The reality is that Frank just signed a document saying he would get Michael to meet with them, in turn they would give him around $150,000. In other words Frank never signed Michael to do Allgood concerts. Allgood never paid Frank the $150,000 for the meeting with Michael therefore Frank never arranged the meeting.

When this went to trial the court sided with Dileo and said there was no deal about the concerts in place and Frank had no obligation to arrange any meeting with Michael as he wasn't paid the meeting fee.

 

[Joyce]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

Thanks Ivy. I didn't know that. There is so much to remember that it all gets confusing to me.

 

[Lucilla]

Is not wise to initiate or encourage rivalry between the fans and Thom Mesereau.

This statement doesn’t erase all the amazing work he has done for MJ in the 2005 trial, and even after the trial.

I still consider him a great ally even if I’m disappointed and if I disagree with that statement. I have no doubts he still firmly believes in MJ’s innocence. The day he claims the contrary will be the day I’ll stop thanking him and consider him a traitor.

Let’s just agree to disagree with him in this and let this book die by stop giving it so much free promotion.

 

[Victory22]

^T Mez also endorsed David Gest's 2011 Michael doc, Life of an Icon. He went up to UK for the premier and did a Q&A. Does he get paid for endorsements?

We shouldn’t forget that T-Mez has also gone along with the Wagener mess of a documentary and has not distanced himself from that fraud.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

It would appear that Tom is either paid or dying for spotlight.

 

[marebear]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

I think we should move on. It's a shame that a book like this got published and that people like Katie Couric, Access Hollywood and whoever else gave him the time of day. You would think they would rather talk to Spike Lee about Bad 25. I woud take quality over trash any day.

I know the fans won't tolerate trash and maybe the general public are getting tired of trashing Michael too. I don't want to sound naive but maybe slowly that is happening too. It's too bad Tom feels one way and the fans feel another about this book. He wants people to know Michael's innocence and we do too. Hopefully someday something better will happen that will show that and we can all support together. This book is not it and the less attention it gets the better.

 

[8701girl]

Tmez mentioned something about the people who might be behind not wanting people to read this book. Tmez is smart and probably read all the garbage about MJs nose, etc., but instead of concentrating mainly on the tabloid stuff, Tmez might want us to see who has always been behind MJ stabbing him in the back over and over again. I'm trying to give Tmez the benefit of the doubt and remain open minded.

Chapter 21:
an all-day schedule of television interviews. Neither Mesereau’s triumph nor
Jackson’s deliverance were greeted with much enthusiasm, though, by either the
American media or the American public. “ You cost the worldwide media billions,”
Berry Gordy told Mesereau. “We have a less interesting story now,” CNN head
Jonathan Klein said to his lieutenants on the afternoon of the verdicts. Klein was
proven correct that very evening, when three broadcast networks rushed Michael
Jackson acquittal specials onto the air only to see them outperformed in ratings by
Fox's rerun of Nanny 911.
----------------

Berry Gordy now needs to either call Tmez a liar or if he won't do that, we now know that Berry Gordy is a hater of the worst kind, and wanted MJ to be found guilty for costing the media billions ie: "Money". Which is it?

(The way I am reading this, Berry Gordy has chastised Tmez for winning...not guilty verdicts. Berry Gordy lost a ton of money when MJ left Motown) I may be going in the wrong direction, but I am going to read more carefully now for what Tmez might be trying to point out to us without naming names)

And heres me thinking berry gordy thought of michael like a son......:no:

 

[Aquarius]

Is not wise to initiate or encourage rivalry between the fans and Thom Mesereau.

This statement doesn’t erase all the amazing work he has done for MJ in the 2005 trial, and even after the trial.

I still consider him a great ally even if I’m disappointed and if I disagree with that statement. I have no doubts he still firmly believes in MJ’s innocence. The day he claims the contrary will be the day I’ll stop thanking him and consider him a traitor.

Let’s just agree to disagree with him in this and let this book die by stop giving it so much free promotion.

Lucilla, I agree is not right to initiate any rivalry with TM but it's wise to call him off when he's wrong.

What he did for Michael, I think, he'd have done it for any of his clients. That's what attorney's with integrity do, like DW the prosecutor in Conrad's trial To think they did for Michael is to diminish their integrity. TM went on tv because it was a high profile case and i did believe he believed in Michael's innocence.

I haven't read the book, so I really don't know what Randall wrote, but by reading the posts I can tell Randall is not too clear about Michael's innocence related to Jordy. When TM, in his Amazon's review, writes that Randall did so much research to write the book and tells that Randall is telling the true about Michael's life, I take it that he agrees with Randall. Unless, I misunderstood his review. If TM's review would only support the 2005 trial, it'd have been ok but he didn't. When he agrees with this book, he's agreeing with all the nastiness Randall wrote about Michael.

After his book review, Randall went on tv insinuating that Michael might have done something and after that TM keeps supporting him. TM had and still has the opportunity to retract from his review & say he only supports the written information about the 2005 trial.

Yes, and let the book die.

 

[8701girl]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

Someone needs to send a video of randall saying this

Randall went on tv insinuating that Michael might have done something

to t -mez

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

I just love how they all insinuate that the fans will harm them. Chandler did the same thing claiming the fans beat him up after he changed his appearance. I am surprised that any book store in Portland will have this man to sign books. Since Sullivan is so afraid of fans, maybe I should get a strand of his hair and do something magical with it. That will surely keep him in Portland and away from Michael topics. Sullivan's demise is such a victory for all of us.

I just saw the last 5 mins of a story of a child star from the silent era -- Baby something on TCM channel. It seems that only after the 1950s her sister thanked her for giving up so much of her childhood to help the family, and the sister apologized for not thinking of this years ago. It reminded me so much of Michael who did the same thing, and many including Sullivan disregard how much this loss affected his adult life. Rather, they belittle him for trying his best to deal with his loss and label him a "P--."

I remember Michael had several pens on the table when he did the book signing. I guess Sullivan only needs 1 a pen, since not many people are going to show up to those book signing events. He may as well bring a crayon.

 

[8701girl]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

[QUOTEI remember Michael had several pens on the table when he did the book signing. I guess Sullivan only needs 1 a pen, since not many people are going to show up to those book signing events. He may as well bring a crayon.][/QUOTE]

:toofunny: :toofunny:

 

[Aquarius]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

I just love how they all insinuate that the fans will harm them. Chandler did the same thing claiming the fans beat him up after he changed his appearance. I am surprised that any book store in Portland will have this man to sign books. Since Sullivan is so afraid of fans, maybe I should get a strand of his hair and do something magical with it. That will surely keep him in Portland and away from Michael topics. Sullivan's demise is such a victory for all of us.

I just saw the last 5 mins of a story of a child star from the silent era -- Baby something on TCM channel. It seems that only after the 1950s her sister thanked her for giving up so much of her childhood to help the family, and the sister apologized for not thinking of this years ago. It reminded me so much of Michael who did the same thing, and many including Sullivan disregard how much this loss affected his adult life. Rather, they belittle him for trying his best to deal with his loss and label him a "P--."

I remember Michael had several pens on the table when he did the book signing. I guess Sullivan only needs 1 a pen, since not many people are going to show up to those book signing events. He may as well bring a crayon.

Certain people when confronted with the true want others to believe Michael's fans are crazy & irrational, but deep inside, they know who is right.

btw, what do you have against the people in Portland?

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

^ I second that. :toofunny:

 

[jamba]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

To be fair, fans have directed very similar adjectives at him (even in this thread), any many have completely disregarded all the important things he had to say in the book. So 1:1. I just generally don't like where this is going.

What important things did he have to say in the book in your view? I would be interested to hear what you see as the positives of the book.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

Oh nothing. I like them like every other human on earth. I just don't like Sullivan messing up the air they breath.
-------
Guys I think we should not respond to Mez anymore. I mean, we could discuss the issues among ourselves, but I think it is
unwise to go back and forth with him because he obviously is very angry and adamant. When people are in those emotions, it is best to leave them alone.

I have been thinking about this, and I think that here we have a man who is brilliant and finally feels he got a great forum to tell his Michael story & show the world how marvelous he is. He thought millions of people would buy the book, and they would read what he had to say. Unexpectedly a group of people, that no one was thinking about, decided to go against the book. When these people attacked the book, it meant that millions would not see what the great Mez had to say, so he became frustrated, mad, indignant and bitchy. All his dreams were dashed by a group of fans. Who would have thought that a fan group had such power? So he does the next best thing--he goes on a single campaign to expose those those fans as suspect, lacking integrity, lacking knowledge, and a bunch of you know whats.

I really think that part of this anger from Mez comes from his ego, because he wanted to show the world the masterly way he handled the case and got a not guilty verdict. We have to remember that the case was not televised and the media did not talk about Mez's expertise. They focused on the prosecution and other nonsense like Michael's clothes. So, basically, except for fans that were glued to the case, many in the general public do not know how excellent Mez performed in that courtroom. Mez felt this Rolling Stone Mag ex-employee had a lot of media contact and would be able to generate a lot of publicity for the book. Now that fans helped the book to fail, Mez may have feelings of rage against the fans and a need to hurt the fans with words!!!

The best thing is to leave him alone. I do not even think a Q& A is a good idea because he will say the same things he said in his e-mails and video. There is no need to hear all that all over again. I mean we have been insulted in 3 e-mails, 1 video and then it would be 1 Q&A.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

That was my first reaction to the Berry Gordy quote-I was startled and disappointed-just now reading it again-he could have been saying it like "good job-you just cost world wide media millions-good for you-let them eat crow". It doesn't really say that Gordy was chastising Mr. Messerau.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

That was my first reaction to the Berry Gordy quote-I was startled and disappointed-just now reading it again-he could have been saying it like "good job-you just cost world wide media millions-good for you-let them eat crow". It doesn't really say that Gordy was chastising Mr. Messerau.

I heard Mez say that SOME of the media did come up to him after the verdict and say he had cost them millions because they had plans to run stories about Michael in jail--what he ate, what his day was like, etc., so they would have stories for months and months. At the time he did not mention Gordy.

 

[morinen]

What important things did he have to say in the book in your view? I would be interested to hear what you see as the positives of the book.

Sullivan interviewed him extensively about the trial and about how Michael felt during those times. I thought trial chapters were fairy covered and no doubt would be revealing for those who has't read "MJ Conspiracy". I'm sure we have to thank Mesereau for that. He didn't say anything new - for me, as I have been following his appearances in the media, and in the past years he already shared pretty much all he had to say about Michael. But nevertheless his words about the trial are poignant every time, and in all honesty every time they are heartbreaking. I wrote down a couple of his quotes about Michael from the book that touched me the most:

“He was one of the most sensitive and kindest people I’ve ever encountered. He really wanted what was best for everyone. He wanted people to do well. And he was remarkable with children and the elderly, one of the most considerate, if not the most considerate people I’ve ever met in that regard.”

And another one about the trial:
“I think he was bleeding internally the whole time,” Mesereau said. “ He was dying right in front of everyone, but nobody saw it.”

As Joe Vogel said yesterday, if there is any redemption for this sorrowful book, it is in the hope that maybe someone will read these words and feel something. Maybe someone will be touched enough to seek and read more. Of all people whom Sullivan interviewed, it is Tom who humanizes Michael the most.

 

[jamba]

Sullivan interviewed him extensively about the trial and about how Michael felt during those times. I thought trial chapters were fairy covered and no doubt would be revealing for those who has't read "MJ Conspiracy". I'm sure we have to thank Mesereau for that. He didn't say anything new - for me, as I have been following his appearances in the media, and in the past years he already shared pretty much all he had to say about Michael. But nevertheless his words about the trial are poignant every time, and in all honesty every time they are heartbreaking. I wrote down a couple of his quotes about Michael from the book that touched me the most:

“He was one of the most sensitive and kindest people I’ve ever encountered. He really wanted what was best for everyone. He wanted people to do well. And he was remarkable with children and the elderly, one of the most considerate, if not the most considerate people I’ve ever met in that regard.”

And another one about the trial:
“I think he was bleeding internally the whole time,” Mesereau said. “ He was dying right in front of everyone, but nobody saw it.”

As Joe Vogel said yesterday, if there is any redemption for this sorrowful book, it is in the hope that maybe someone will read these words and feel something. Maybe someone will be touched enough to seek and read more. Of all people whom Sullivan interviewed, it is Tom who humanizes Michael the most.

Thanks for this. I can see Joe Vogel's point that we can hope someone will be touched by this part of the book and go further into other, better sources. You are right, though, that these comments have been made before by T.M.

I agree with Petrarose, too, that it's best to leave T. Mesereau alone. I just hate it that he doesn't understand the rational, fair, legitimate objections to the book and the author's comments in his many interviews. I wonder what Susan Yu thinks about all this?

 

[Hunterr]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

This makes me sick to my stomach. And along with everything else in the New York Times article, I also can't believe that after the autopsy report stated for a fact that Michael had vitiligo, the media are still pushing that "skin-bleaching" mess.

But didn't MJ in fact bleach his skin to even out the pigment loss? (or whatever the medical term is)
I know there are pics of his arms and chest with spots, so maybe he more-so focused on his face and hands and such?
Or because of the spotty parts, he kept getting it done more and more?

In any case, his entire body didn't turn that way over time from the result of vitilago alone.


Slightly unrelated, but the Jamaican dancehall rapper Vybz Cartel unapologetically admits to bleaching his skin.

And also baseball player Sammy Sosa has gotten stuff done...

 

[la_cienega]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

But didn't MJ in fact bleach his skin to even out the pigment loss? (or whatever the medical term is)
I know there are pics of his arms and chest with spots, so maybe he more-so focused on his face and hands and such?
Or because of the spotty parts, he kept getting it done more and more?

In any case, his entire body didn't turn that way over time from the result of vitilago alone.

His entire body wasn't "white." The creams given to Michael by doctors were prescribed to depigment him so he could have even skin, not because he hated being black. Vitiligo can be extreme or not extreme, some have small spots, others have "universal vitiligo", which is when it covers almost the whole body. That's what MJ had.

Yeah he says MJ had vitiligo, but he also says MJ and Toya were bleaching together in the 70s and that MJ hated his race and also bleached his skin for that reason.

I'm not sure what those photos you posted were meant to prove, Michael didn't look like that.

 

[Hunterr]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

No where in my post did I say he hated his race, nor did I bring up Latoya...

The other pictures were simply of other people who have done stuff to their skin. I guess you missed the part where I wrote "slightly unrelated".

Yeesh. Can't even have a dialogue about it...

 

[Nadia1981]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess [Threads merged]

But didn't MJ in fact bleach his skin to even out the pigment loss? (or whatever the medical term is)
I know there are pics of his arms and chest with spots, so maybe he more-so focused on his face and hands and such?
Or because of the spotty parts, he kept getting it done more and more?

In any case, his entire body didn't turn that way over time from the result of vitilago alone.

I haven't read the book, but I think Sullivan (just as JRT) claims that the vitiligo was an effect of the skin-bleaching he did (because he wanted to be white according to Sullivan) and not the other way around. That's why fans take an issue with it.

 

[morinen]

But didn't MJ in fact bleach his skin to even out the pigment loss? (or whatever the medical term is)
I know there are pics of his arms and chest with spots, so maybe he more-so focused on his face and hands and such?
Or because of the spotty parts, he kept getting it done more and more?
In any case, his entire body didn't turn that way over time from the result of vitilago alone.

He did, but it was a treatment to a disease (which, by the way, is a private matter). Yet "skin bleaching" is mentioned everywhere like it was a central part of his identity. That's what is annoying. It certainly wasn't for the reasons Sullivan speculated about (pardon me for quoting this crap here):

It was true that at Neverland Ranch Michael was sometimes openly disdainful of
black people—or at least a certain class of black people—referring to them as
“ splaboos,” and using the word most often in exchanges with the young white
boys who shared his bedroom. Perhaps it was also true that, as a Santa Barbara
County sheriff’s deputy who interviewed his household staff wrote in a 2003
affidavit, Jackson “ bleaches his skin because he does not like being black and he
feels that blacks are not liked as much as people of other races.”

 

[qbee]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

But didn't MJ in fact bleach his skin to even out the pigment loss? (or whatever the medical term is)
I know there are pics of his arms and chest with spots, so maybe he more-so focused on his face and hands and such?
Or because of the spotty parts, he kept getting it done more and more?

In any case, his entire body didn't turn that way over time from the result of vitilago alone.

Those pictures of others have nothing to do with what MJ went though and shouldn't even be compared to his TREATMENT.
Michael got medical treatment offered to Vitiligo patients so he wouldnt have to look like a spotted cow waiting for the disease to take over and ravage his whole body. There are different kinds of vitiligo and Michael had "Universal vitiligo" that attacks the whole body. Please watch this video to be more informed. Explains what Vitiligo is, Mj History with it and At the end MJs Dr clarifies what treatment was done and why. His Dr said MIchael was not desirous to be white ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djr-5H2L5Dk

 

[HIStory]

He did, but it was a treatment to a disease (which, by the way, is a private matter). Yet "skin bleaching" is mentioned everywhere like it was a central part of his identity. That's what is annoying. It certainly wasn't for the reasons Sullivan speculated about (pardon me for quoting this crap here):

Amazing how Randall quotes a book of a man (Bob Jones) who admitted lying on the stand in 2005. This “splaboos" story is Jones' and Stacy Brown's creation, yet Randall has no problem writing these stories as if they are unquestionable facts: "it was true..." No, it wasn't. The whole story came from a man who on the stand admitted making up and sensationalize stories just to sell books and get back at Michael for firing him.

So when such things from proven liars are quoted about MJ as "truth" in the media, is it really MJ fans who are delusional and irrational? All Randall should have done was to read the actual court transcripts and see there if Jones' book is a credible source...

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable" Tabloid Mess

I have been thinking about this, and I think that here we have a man who is brilliant and finally feels he got a great forum to tell his Michael story & show the world how marvelous he is. He thought millions of people would buy the book, and they would read what he had to say.

I really think that part of this anger from Mez comes from his ego, because he wanted to show the world the masterly way he handled the case and got a not guilty verdict. We have to remember that the case was not televised and the media did not talk about Mez's expertise. They focused on the prosecution and other nonsense like Michael's clothes. So, basically, except for fans that were glued to the case, many in the general public do not know how excellent Mez performed in that courtroom.

Where are you getting this idea from? Nowhere in the chapters on the trial is the emphasis on tmez's handling of the trial. It is all about the facts, the timeline, the witnesses and the weakness of the prosecution case. The emphasis in the book is on the facts which show mj's innocence of the charges, not the 'masterly way' tmez handled the courtroom, there is no grandstanding from him at all in his comments to sullivan. Tmez is actually very open about how lawyers can never predict a jury and that he couldn't be certain of a complete notguilty vindication across the board. And some of the most affecting quotes in the book about mj come from tmez, which morinen has already quoted. So no, there's no ego from tmez, just a belief in mj's innocence.

 

[shelly_webster]

We shouldn’t forget that T-Mez has also gone along with the Wagener mess of a documentary and has not distanced himself from that fraud.

He said he wasn't involved in it.